: Well, seems like you are really close to the champion and now you've pointed out his issues I can arguee a little bit more about the reason why he doesn't need a rework at the moment, and just a fact, Lee's second Q is escapable, but with a very short time to do so. Anyway, back to the champion. You said a lot about his kit but once again it doesn't reflect into the numbers, since His winrate tell us that his actual kit works well, but I think you might have some reason at some point, but I don't think they justify a rework. Passive Being ghosted helps him to get to his target, even thought the damage ignored could be a bit higher and could include some other types of AA (like heimer's machine and zyra's plants). Q Being avoidable is bad, that should change since that is the main gapcloser of the champ. The range could be slightely increased and the AP escaling a bit higher while the fixed damaged decreased. This might fix some of the main issues with the skill. The speed of the animation is ok as long as the skill is unavoidable. W He is not supposed to clear the wave fast, so it's ok to 'sacrifice' damage in order to get some xp/gold from the wave. It's a way to actually plan when play aggressive or just farm. LB is broken as hell (something intended by Riot - I really don't know what the hell they think they are doing with this champ) and she IS NOT supposed to have that much wave clear AND burst damage. E Well, I don't think that your points have some any value because just like I said before, Assassins are not meant to have THAT much wave clear AND Burst (even more if you add Waveclear, Burst AND mobility). Zed's Living Shadow (W) for example has a 22 secs cooldown at 1st level. So you have to clear the wave fast OR trade damage OR use it as a escape route. Ahri's only mobility skill is her Ultimate, Kat's rely on high risky trades where she HAS to get her knifes back in order to get her skills back to trade again (or she can sit there and land Q's everytime she can, wow). But then there's one thing, Zed's combo and Kat's combo deal a hell more damage then Fizz lv3 combo (no ultimate combo) but are harder to pull off than Fizz's combo, so I guess it's ok. (Actually, Zed's damage is higher than it should be, in my opinion) R It's REALLY slow, and I think it could be changed increasing the speed and slightly reducing the damage (don't forget it applies two CC's and it's an AOE skill). Really hard to kill tanky enemies, but blows up any squishy target. Wich is fair since the amount of damage dealt is considerably high and it gives you an utillity skill (can disrupt very easily a team fight). My thought: Overall I think the mobility given to Fizz isn't enough. Assassins should be able to blow a Carry away and then leave untouched when played correctly. LB, Zed, Kat and Ahri, they all have ways to get out of the fight after completing their duty. Fizz lacks this way of getting out of the fight. That's true and hourglass is just a time-killer when you are most of the times already dead. But Fizz as I mentioned before is an easier assassin champion in comparison with others. I agree with the fact that as a champion with the pontential to one-shot people, he should have more skill expression than he actually has. Maybe his kit could reflect it more and reward better those who spent hours and hours practicing with the champ. Does he desserve a rework? My answer's still the same. Not till the end of the year, but Yeah, Riot could take a look more carefully at the champion and re-evaluate the goals the champion sould achieve. Does he deal a good damage for his class? Does he have the tools to deal this damage and get away when played correctly? Does h have enough skill expression? How can he be punished for bad decisions/misplays? IS he fair to play against? I guess that's all for now
> [{quoted}](name=SiriusHunter,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=fo8i9k02,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-24T03:37:39.092+0000) > > Well, seems like you are really close to the champion and now you've pointed out his issues I can arguee a little bit more about the reason why he doesn't need a rework at the moment, and just a fact, Lee's second Q is escapable, but with a very short time to do so. > > Anyway, back to the champion. You said a lot about his kit but once again it doesn't reflect into the numbers, since His winrate tell us that his actual kit works well, but I think you might have some reason at some point, but I don't think they justify a rework. > > Passive > > Being ghosted helps him to get to his target, even thought the damage ignored could be a bit higher and could include some other types of AA (like heimer's machine and zyra's plants). > > Q > > Being avoidable is bad, that should change since that is the main gapcloser of the champ. The range could be slightely increased and the AP escaling a bit higher while the fixed damaged decreased. This might fix some of the main issues with the skill. The speed of the animation is ok as long as the skill is unavoidable. > > W > > He is not supposed to clear the wave fast, so it's ok to 'sacrifice' damage in order to get some xp/gold from the wave. It's a way to actually plan when play aggressive or just farm. LB is broken as hell (something intended by Riot - I really don't know what the hell they think they are doing with this champ) and she IS NOT supposed to have that much wave clear AND burst damage. > > E > > Well, I don't think that your points have some any value because just like I said before, Assassins are not meant to have THAT much wave clear AND Burst (even more if you add Waveclear, Burst AND mobility). Zed's Living Shadow (W) for example has a 22 secs cooldown at 1st level. So you have to clear the wave fast OR trade damage OR use it as a escape route. Ahri's only mobility skill is her Ultimate, Kat's rely on high risky trades where she HAS to get her knifes back in order to get her skills back to trade again (or she can sit there and land Q's everytime she can, wow). But then there's one thing, Zed's combo and Kat's combo deal a hell more damage then Fizz lv3 combo (no ultimate combo) but are harder to pull off than Fizz's combo, so I guess it's ok. (Actually, Zed's damage is higher than it should be, in my opinion) > > R > It's REALLY slow, and I think it could be changed increasing the speed and slightly reducing the damage (don't forget it applies two CC's and it's an AOE skill). Really hard to kill tanky enemies, but blows up any squishy target. Wich is fair since the amount of damage dealt is considerably high and it gives you an utillity skill (can disrupt very easily a team fight). > > > > My thought: > > Overall I think the mobility given to Fizz isn't enough. Assassins should be able to blow a Carry away and then leave untouched when played correctly. LB, Zed, Kat and Ahri, they all have ways to get out of the fight after completing their duty. Fizz lacks this way of getting out of the fight. That's true and hourglass is just a time-killer when you are most of the times already dead. > > But Fizz as I mentioned before is an easier assassin champion in comparison with others. I agree with the fact that as a champion with the pontential to one-shot people, he should have more skill expression than he actually has. Maybe his kit could reflect it more and reward better those who spent hours and hours practicing with the champ. > > Does he desserve a rework? My answer's still the same. Not till the end of the year, but Yeah, Riot could take a look more carefully at the champion and re-evaluate the goals the champion sould achieve. > > Does he deal a good damage for his class? > Does he have the tools to deal this damage and get away when played correctly? > Does h have enough skill expression? > > How can he be punished for bad decisions/misplays? > > IS he fair to play against? > > > I guess that's all for now I've one tricked this champion since 2016 and I've never once had a situation where the ghosting actually helped out. Even when I play other champions VS fizz I legit don't even feel a difference as far as pathing in and around minions/champions goes. Infact, it's actually a pain in the ass. Normally when you're infront of a champion being able to orb walk and creep block them is a large part of doing extended trades in lane. With having a permanent ghost you actually can't do that. Even if they made the damage block higher it wouldn't matter. Lets say they tune it so it's equivalent to being level 18 with it now, that's 14 damage. Just walking up level 1 you can take 2 AA's and even up to 3 very easily, then add in the actually abilities damage depending on which champion it is. At most you're looking at blocking about 30-40 damage per trade when they're dealing several hundred. I mean, granted that wouldn't be statistically useless anymore, but it's not going to really save him. If I had to choose I'd either want a passive that helps me scale such as a counter to MR and shields, because then I'd have a proper trade off for having a terrible lane phase, or if you really had to keep it laning phase focused then I'd want some form of sustain. Doesn't even HAVE to be HP either, it could literally just be mana. One of fizz's best starters is corrupting pot for his laning but when he doesn't take dorans his mana pool won't last long lasting hitting with his W, which unfortunately is almost mandatory in order to secure CS under such heavy pressure from your laner. _____________________ I'd much rather the entire thing be free aim like most other dashes in the game. Targeted dashes usually have some sort of reset to them, aren't dodgeable, or aren't inherently important to the champions ability to perform their role. If it's going to be avoidable with no reset then I'd prefer to just have a normal dash. With this it'd actually help the point I made about his E. ________________________ My point about the W was towards his interactions with it in team fights, so waveclear was never a discussion topic. As far as laning phase goes I think Fizz is not bad at all. It's frustrating to play against the meta matchups that also poke him out of existence, but there are ways to deal with it. It's teamfights/late game when all of his problems arise. ____________________________ You missed my point. My gripe is that it's all stacked onto one ability when it shouldn't be. I shouldn't have only 1 ability that decides my damage, my mobility, and my survivability. Also Zed is fundamentally different because he doesn't lose out on the rest of his kit, nor is he put in the same level of risk by using it. If he uses it for a trade then he's still at a range and out of the enemies reach, and even if it's an opponent that can engage on him from that distance he's capable of teleporting to his shadow and juking out the opponent. Zed can also teleport to that shadow to fully engage on his opponent thus using it as a dash and damage at the same time. He also still has his ult left which grants him untargetability and gives him time for his cooldowns as well as another shadow to use for damage or escape to. Fizz in certain situations can use his E as all 3. Mobility, Defensively, and for damage. But during that entire time it's still extremely slow and allows for any number of different things to happen in that time to react and counter it. Zeds W engage is instant and allows him to put down his primary damage with absolutely no delay, and I honestly don't think even professional level players could probably react to well trained Zed combo. Ahri only has ulty for mobility, true. But she's also ranged and has the kite to not need it, and to add to that she isn't required to use her ulty for damage in order to effectively kill targets. Kat arguably does have some risk involved because people know where she's going, but the issue there is that Kat also does a fuck ton more damage than any of these examples. It's less of picking up her daggers puts her at risk and more of in most situations people don't want to go anywhere near her daggers because it means death. ____________________ I can't really say what it needs because my entire opinion is that the champion needs a rework. His entire kit is a nightmare to balance, it's frustrating to play, and it DOES cause grief for players when it's ahead. Though I disagree about the part where squishies get blown up. One of my main points I made is about how long a full engage actually takes off a landed shark. Even if it lands there's an insane amount of ways to nullify it, one of the most common being just tanking the shark and Fizz. Shield/heal supports are plenty common now adays, and if you add in redemption and Locket of the Iron solari, both extremely meta and common items, there's no active gameplay that needs to happen at all to prevent a vulnerable squishy from dying to getting caught. This puts fizz at a position where he can't go in because the target is unkillable and if he does he dies because of his simple engage pattern, and now what's even worse is that his only method of pre applying his W to be relevant in a dive/teamfight is now gone. By the time an opportunity would come around to jump the carry in the teamfight you just started, the supports rotations, or atleast their basic abilities will definitely be up. And if they have exhaust + heal then it's even worse. No matter what they'll kite you because you can't get off enough damage in a short time before being collapsed on, or it's not even impossible for the carry to kill you themself If I could get news of a rework at the end of the year then I'd be happy, but they're not looking at that option at all. That's why I'm angry.
: Actually I'm not proving anything. Irelia = Didn't need a rework Aatrox = Balancing Issues Mordekaiser = A unplayable champion outside this nosense meta (does need a rework) Fizz = A balanced champion, with a good kit. Does need a rework? Not for a year at leasr. Differences between Fizz and Morde's. Fizz = Playable at any circunstances so far, at any meta that we've been through Morde = Only playable at the current meta, worthless in any other. You can give me the details if you want, but as far as I know, Fizz can wait at least till the end of the year to get on the rework list, since each rework takes a lot of time and there's a lot of champions in a real need. Mordekaiser, Nunu, Sivir. Even Skarner and Annie. These champions are quite boring to play, with a very low skill expression. And are too straight . I could put even Nocturne on the list. Fizz might have issues, but he has as much as any balanced champion has, at least for now. It's acceptable, as I said, for at least one more year.
> [{quoted}](name=SiriusHunter,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=fo8i9k02,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-23T13:39:31.233+0000) > > Actually I'm not proving anything. > Irelia = Didn't need a rework > Aatrox = Balancing Issues > Mordekaiser = A unplayable champion outside this nosense meta (does need a rework) > Fizz = A balanced champion, with a good kit. Does need a rework? Not for a year at leasr. > > Differences between Fizz and Morde's. > Fizz = Playable at any circunstances so far, at any meta that we've been through > Morde = Only playable at the current meta, worthless in any other. > > You can give me the details if you want, but as far as I know, Fizz can wait at least till the end of the year to get on the rework list, since each rework takes a lot of time and there's a lot of champions in a real need. > > Mordekaiser, Nunu, Sivir. Even Skarner and Annie. > These champions are quite boring to play, with a very low skill expression. And are too straight . > I could put even Nocturne on the list. > > Fizz might have issues, but he has as much as any balanced champion has, at least for now. > It's acceptable, as I said, for at least one more year. First we start off with the obvious passive. A statistically pointless passive that blocks about the same amount of damage that the original dorans shield and the old mastery did, and then a permanent ghost. The amount of damage blocked is literally unnoticeable and doesn't do anything to alleviate his laning problems which is why it exists. The ghosting at this point is also pointless as there's almost no real situation where it comes in handy anymore. At this point it's only a waste of a slot that could've been used for a viable mechanic. But I guess that's more of a case of just something being weak and not actually being a problem. __________________________ Despite being the "Mobile" trickster his mobility is slow and linear, and this shows in his Q. It's short ranged, has a slow dash time, it's targeted, and it's one of only 2 targeted dashes that can be dodged, with any minor mobility spell at that. Could you imagine the outrage if you could dodge Irelia or Lee Sin Q? It'd be different if it was just a dash, but this is often times his only way of getting onto an enemy champion and applying his horrible W bleed to then stack his DoT. If it misses then he's also likely out of AA range and left with nothing that he can physically do to escape or apply damage. ______________________________ I explained the problem with the PBE version of the W in my other post, so that leaves his live version W. You have a pure melee ranged champion who is forced, with no mechanical counterplay to lessen it, wait 2 full seconds in order to use 1/3 of his kits damage. He's a squishy assassin with no over tuned defensive options that his AD counterparts have access to. 2 seconds is death. His only option is to sit there and wait it out or use E, both of those though give the enemy plenty of time to either hit him with dizzying levels of counter burst, apply debuffs out the ass like exhaust, use mobility spells to escape him, or in most meta cases unload shields and heals that effectively triple the enemies HP bar. ________________________ Part of my point with his E is that he's FORCED to use his defensive utility there in order to simply survive long enough to proc another spell. He's not allowed to use it freely because in whatever he's doing he's shoehorned into using his E in a suboptimal way. His E is 1/3 of his damage, his only free aim mobility spell, and his only defensive option. If I want to get down max damage on the engage I have to blow it and sacrifice mobility and survivability. If I want to use it as a defensive tool then I'll half my ability to actually chase down the enemy and even if I catch them then in most scenario's I don't have the damage to kill my target. If I HAVE to use it as mobility then naturally the other 2 are out the window. With no other option the only way to usually ever follow up on an R engage is to be forced to use my E which then not only guts my damage but also means I won't have an escape or any protection when I engage on the target. That last point could be argued that you have access to hourglass but I say that's bullshit. Hourglass is a defensive utility item, not an offensive utility item. When used to prevent burst or stop a dive it does its job effectively. Afterall this item was made for the mage class which is a backline role. But using it on Fizz who is a diver/engage assassin means jack all. Once stasis ends I still have no protection, no mobility, so if my team hasn't made an effective follow up then I'm going to die anyway. That's of course assuming I didn't get CC'd on the engage and died before I could even pop the item. ____________________ Then the shark leads to a few of these problems. You're a pure melee assassin, and your mobility has design flaws as I pointed out, but for some reason you were given a long range engage/diver oriented ult that then requires you to sacrifice your mobility, sacrifice your dynamic gameplay, and requires you to engage in a linear straight line pattern. Having to sacrifice your E just to get closer means you're gutting your damage and your survivability like I noted above. Then even if you get in Q range it can be dodged which means you're losing even more damage, then you have to find a way to proc the W. Even if you manage to proc the W then in most cases your Ult damage + Lich bane + W is not enough to kill people, and when it is the champion gets called broken and bitched about. Keep in mind that during this entire engage people have all the time in the world to pop shields, pop heals, catch you with an exhaust while moving to your target, using mobility spells to put further distance between you, or pop either an hourglass for AP champions or a stopwatch for AD champions. God forbid they have GA making your entire engage basically worthless. You might not have to use your E to engage if the ult didn't require you to hit a max range shark in order to get decent damage from your kit. This is also under the assumption you hit your ult. With several changes they've repeatedly nerfed the hitbox and latch on capabilities of Fizz ult, so if you combine that with how slow the ult is and easy to notice then either side stepping it or reacting with a basic mobility spell is simple. Or in more cases it can be body blocked by just about any target and you aren't ever going to scratch a tank or even a "fighter" like Riven, Jax, Fiora, Irelia, ect. ___________________ None of that even mentioned his laning phase which is one of the worst in the game, if not THE worst. A pure melee champion with no wave clear, no sustain, no durability. He can't fight against top laners because of a difference in itemization scaling and raw power in their kits so he's forced mid lane. In mid he faces off against nothing but champions with painful ranged poke with low CD's and low mana costs. In most meta matchups losing up to half you HP just walking up for a single minion in the early levels. Even against champions who have lesser poke in their kits he's still a free punching bag for auto attacks which is passive doesn't help against despite being intended for. This starves him on gold, XP depending on how often he needs to back, and forces him into a passive role despite his only strong point being strong early game damage meant to snowball into a mid game power spike with his R. Even when he finally manages to properly engage on targets, mid lane itemization for mages has specifically been tuned for defensive options so they'll have far more power in a defensive fight than he can handle. Things like RoA, Banshee's, and Abyssal Mask all allowing them to outscale him quickly. Not to mention things like Nullifying Orb and Stopwatch which puts him at an even worse disadvantage. Worst possible matchups are more aggressively and snowball oriented lanes like Zed who you can fight early on but will quickly become unkillable the moment he buys Hexdrinker. A disgusting 1300 gold item that'll give him a 90s CD magic shield that blocks about 150 damage by the time he gets it, and then it also offers 35 god damn MR. Meanwhile the counter item pick for Fizz is Armguard which everyone knows is a horrible item by comparison. _____________ That's also part of my next point which is itemization for the champion. You're stuck feeding off of mage items while AD Assassins have an entire line of items that have great gold efficiency, build paths, defensive stats onto of their offensive stats, amazing passives, and penetration out the ass. The only good item for Fizz is primarily lichbane, beyond that though he's more or less forced into certain items. He doesn't have the time for building expensive scaling items, he often times starved on gold because of his laning problems so he has even less of a reason to buy the expensive mage items, and he NEEDS 40% CDR or else he can't make use of his E and R which are required for him to do anything. __________________________________ The way I see it is that he has 2 major problems: The design of his kit is linear and outdated, it doesn't allow him to use his mobility dynamically like other assassins. They face alot of the same issues as pseudo divers but their kits either allow them to operate without committing to a full dive like Fizz or allow them to back out of it when they do. Another issue is Riots stance on fizzs damage. He's the only champion they're really holding a standard to about delaying his burst. Leblanc got changed back because it was "unfair for her", but comparing the 2 she had it better because she was atleast capable of higher range and kite potential. Other champions who aren't even assassins deal equal or greater damage and even impact the game more as a solo champion, but they're seen as fine/balanced. I was going to type more here but I ran out of characters.
: His kit accomplishes the main features of the champion and can be old, but is nothing close to outdated. His rework shouldn't be a prioritty by now, if you don't like how Fizz is at the moment, I suggest you to move to another champion, 'cuz right now He's just fine with a pretty decente kit, and YEaH the numbers shows it. And just in case you forgot, LoL is a game of numbers. By my logic Yeah, Irelia shouldn't receive a rework neither Aatrox, (two diferente cases, but will get sson in to that). Irelia could not be The Dream she promissed to be, but she was fine and could've waited for some more time. There are another ungencies that should be solved before (like the tons of Mordekaiser's bugs, or Nunu rework). Aatrox rework is the same problem of Ryze (In case you missed LoL for the last 3 years). He doesn't have a problem with his kit, his issue is about balancing it, something Fizz certainly do not have since he has a decente win rate and does well what he is supposed to do (wich is assassinate other champions). Aatrox Kit went Always or too Strong or too weak and a rework is a way to try and solve this issue. About Mordekaiser, I guess you failed to realise all the things that makes him so "Strong" at the moment. If you go back in some patches you'll see that he was barely picked up and his win rate was... Well, he had some won games. I think. But the thing about Mordekaiser being Strong now is a sum of facts that you might be ignoring. Adcarries are weak, He has a good sustain and a decente damage, can be a little bit resistente (certainly more than adcarries are), AND He's quite good at taking objectives with his ultimate. But here is the thing. I invite you to get any pro match where Mordekaiser got behind in the game and see how worthless he is. He is a two-edged knife. You your team is ahead, then you'll be just fine, but if you get behind than you'll struggle at every single moment. And again, Mordekaiser is just good BECAUS of the actual state of the meta. Who was Mordekaiser a month and a half ago? And I bet he'll be forgotten as soon as the meta changes again. So if you want to address some of your concerns about Fizz, feel free to, but know that in the moment there are things way more importante than a Champion that is doing fine. And it's just because of this sort of behavior that LoL is actually getting worse. More and more people want things their way, instead of looking at priorities and what's good to the game as a whole.
> [{quoted}](name=SiriusHunter,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=fo8i9k02,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-23T00:46:50.762+0000) > > His kit accomplishes the main features of the champion and can be old, but is nothing close to outdated. > His rework shouldn't be a prioritty by now, if you don't like how Fizz is at the moment, I suggest you to move to another champion, 'cuz right now He's just fine with a pretty decente kit, and YEaH the numbers shows it. And just in case you forgot, LoL is a game of numbers. > > By my logic Yeah, Irelia shouldn't receive a rework neither Aatrox, (two diferente cases, but will get sson in to that). Irelia could not be The Dream she promissed to be, but she was fine and could've waited for some more time. There are another ungencies that should be solved before (like the tons of Mordekaiser's bugs, or Nunu rework). > Aatrox rework is the same problem of Ryze (In case you missed LoL for the last 3 years). He doesn't have a problem with his kit, his issue is about balancing it, something Fizz certainly do not have since he has a decente win rate and does well what he is supposed to do (wich is assassinate other champions). Aatrox Kit went Always or too Strong or too weak and a rework is a way to try and solve this issue. > > About Mordekaiser, I guess you failed to realise all the things that makes him so "Strong" at the moment. If you go back in some patches you'll see that he was barely picked up and his win rate was... Well, he had some won games. I think. > But the thing about Mordekaiser being Strong now is a sum of facts that you might be ignoring. Adcarries are weak, He has a good sustain and a decente damage, can be a little bit resistente (certainly more than adcarries are), AND He's quite good at taking objectives with his ultimate. But here is the thing. I invite you to get any pro match where Mordekaiser got behind in the game and see how worthless he is. > He is a two-edged knife. You your team is ahead, then you'll be just fine, but if you get behind than you'll struggle at every single moment. And again, Mordekaiser is just good BECAUS of the actual state of the meta. Who was Mordekaiser a month and a half ago? And I bet he'll be forgotten as soon as the meta changes again. > > > So if you want to address some of your concerns about Fizz, feel free to, but know that in the moment there are things way more importante than a Champion that is doing fine. And it's just because of this sort of behavior that LoL is actually getting worse. More and more people want things their way, instead of looking at priorities and what's good to the game as a whole. You're proving my point though. You look at the numbers of fizz and say that he has no problems because of it, but then you're trying to say that the numbers mean nothing for the others because there's more to it than that. You'll sit there and talk in depth about Morde's problems but then dismiss fizz as "He's got a high winrate so stop complaining". You also missed the end bit where I agreed that there is no rush for a rework. All I want is to discuss the issue and confirm that they're atleast willing to work with the sub community for efforts in the future instead of ignoring us for another 2-3 years. I can still go ahead and discuss his issues though if you're convinced that there's nothing wrong with the champion.
: Please, give the details then. Because right now, in the middle of 8.12 patch, I'm looking at Fizz Win rate Charts and Win rate per games played Charts, and you know what? He is the strongest of all assassins midlaners with a +50% win rate, WITH an "outdated" kit. And if you are asking a rework at Fizz, first explain to me why he does need it if the numbers prove the opposite? I could tell you a lot of real outdated kits that actually NEED a rework, and Fizz is not even close to the top 10.
> [{quoted}](name=SiriusHunter,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=fo8i9k02,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-22T16:09:38.480+0000) > > Please, give the details then. > Because right now, in the middle of 8.12 patch, I'm looking at Fizz Win rate Charts and Win rate per games played Charts, and you know what? He is the strongest of all assassins midlaners with a +50% win rate, WITH an "outdated" kit. > > And if you are asking a rework at Fizz, first explain to me why he does need it if the numbers prove the opposite? > I could tell you a lot of real outdated kits that actually NEED a rework, and Fizz is not even close to the top 10. Numbers aren't everything. it's about a kit being outdated and bad in design. It's a bad experience for the people playing him and the people playing against him, and even with minor tweaks like these they can't do much because they're trying to work around all of the design flaws that exist in his kit. Meaning future balancing and tweaking is hindered because they aren't sure how to do it without screwing him up. By your logic Mordekaiser doesn't need a rework because he consistently hovers at a 50% or above winrate. Aatrox and Irelia never needed a rework because they consistently get played in challenger with decent winrates.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Sure they could use more assassin items for AP, but morello is a pretty good fit for most is all I'm saying. Morello has tier 2 AP, a magic damage amp that's relevant on any target at 100 resistances or lower, and 300 hp on a class that does have to go into harms way most of the time to do its damage. That's worth the 3k right there, but then you have the added bonus of halving the sustain of anyone you are targeting. I feel that package is being way undervalued. Kassadin also has a pretty good deal on the new archangel. He can start doing 800 mana jumps basically as soon as he finishes the item, and his damage doesn't suffer for it (since he can use high levels of his ultimate more often and earlier). If they were to rework anything maybe the hextech line and nashor's tooth could do for another look? A lot of penetration items can be problematic and Riot seems to be evaluating their stance on CDR again if the Haste item clause is any indication. Burst actives and on hit seem to be the safer things to touch.
> [{quoted}](name=exiledtyrant,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=WO8UtiYm,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-02-07T10:16:41.454+0000) > > Sure they could use more assassin items for AP, but morello is a pretty good fit for most is all I'm saying. Morello has tier 2 AP, a magic damage amp that's relevant on any target at 100 resistances or lower, and 300 hp on a class that does have to go into harms way most of the time to do its damage. That's worth the 3k right there, but then you have the added bonus of halving the sustain of anyone you are targeting. I feel that package is being way undervalued. > > Kassadin also has a pretty good deal on the new archangel. He can start doing 800 mana jumps basically as soon as he finishes the item, and his damage doesn't suffer for it (since he can use high levels of his ultimate more often and earlier). > > If they were to rework anything maybe the hextech line and nashor's tooth could do for another look? A lot of penetration items can be problematic and Riot seems to be evaluating their stance on CDR again if the Haste item clause is any indication. Burst actives and on hit seem to be the safer things to touch. I'd like to clarify that 15 Magic pen alone is unfortunately not all that great. Roughly speaking, that's an average of about a 5% damage amplification at all stages. For magic pen to be on par to AD pen you'd need the same excessive amount of flat pen, percentage ignore, and reduction that AD itemization has. Raw HP doesn't really work all that well in the current meta. Most, if not all major damage sources comes from DPS sources which basically counter flat HP pools. HP and resistances are most prominently effective VS raw burst, and doesn't work well with an assassin at all. It mainly affects situations where champions are on the defensive, like getting dove. Going offensively makes those tank stats pretty worthless against where you're going and who is there to fight you. So any changes to the durability that items offer you are probably only going to affect champions sitting in the back line, aka mages who AP itemization is primarily balanced around.
: Lichbane is fine as are all the sheen items. If you want a mid game power spike go for the new morellonomicon. You can sit on shadow orb for quite some time and the completed item gives great stats. 15 pen adds a good damage amp while grievous wounds makes it much harder to heal through your burst later in the game. The hp is also nice since its much harder to itemize any bulk as an AP assassin. If anything protobelt needs to be flat out removed since the active is a balancing nightmare if it performs well and the stats themselves compete against better hp/ap items.
> [{quoted}](name=exiledtyrant,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=WO8UtiYm,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-02-07T07:27:46.807+0000) > > Lichbane is fine as are all the sheen items. If you want a mid game power spike go for the new morellonomicon. You can sit on shadow orb for quite some time and the completed item gives great stats. 15 pen adds a good damage amp while grievous wounds makes it much harder to heal through your burst later in the game. The hp is also nice since its much harder to itemize any bulk as an AP assassin. If anything protobelt needs to be flat out removed since the active is a balancing nightmare if it performs well and the stats themselves compete against better hp/ap items. As I said in 2 other comments, and just now edited into the post, the main goal is to suggest getting assassin Itemization implemented. Perhaps suggesting lichbane get reworked for it is a bad idea, but if it's a standalone item then that's equally as appreciated. As for viability of the new Morell, well it's not exactly optimal. There's a chunk of wasted gold from the HP and Passive, and most importantly is the heavy lack of CDR. Champions like Akali and ekko are one thing but when you get to Kassadin and fizz it's mandatory to get 40% CDR on them. With the removal of 20% CDR Morello you're stuck in a tight spot for build paths. With fizz it already requires the use of the CDR rune to hit 40% with his meta build, but if you were to rush it morello on him then you'd end up sacrificing boots in the end for Lucidity boots which just means I'm trading 18 pen from boots for 15 from the item. There's definitely alittle bit of biased from me by mainly focusing on how it'd interact with my champion, but from an unbiased standpoint the melee AP assassins definitely need more attention. Even a single item purely focused towards them would make a world of difference.
: Sure tell that to {{champion:143}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:4}} {{champion:115}}
> [{quoted}](name=LadyVash,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=WO8UtiYm,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-07T05:34:38.346+0000) > > Sure tell that to {{champion:143}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:4}} {{champion:115}} Actually you got me on the TF, granted. But none of the rest of those champions have that item as a core. Leblanc sparsely uses it sometimes when they feel like it, and Ziggs builds it when they want to beef up their tower push. Otherwise fairly pointless on the rest. Also I rectified what I said in the other comment. If reworking Lichbane isn't something anyone wants then adding in a separate item for what I talked about would also be appreciated.
: Defiantly do NOT lock it to melee only.
> [{quoted}](name=LadyVash,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=WO8UtiYm,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-07T04:02:49.108+0000) > > Defiantly do NOT lock it to melee only. But that's kind of the whole point? It's meant to be an assassin item. AP mages were already balanced to be played without pen but they got it anyway through the morello rework. If the item is designed to be for assassins but doesn't get any restrictions then it'll just be abused by AP classes that shouldn't be using it. Things like Duskblade and Black Cleaver are the best examples of items designed for a specific subset of champions then getting abused by basically everything else.
: Well, lichbane's always been an unique item. It sinergizes very well with specific champions that already have a built-in empowered auto via skills: eg. akali, fizz, kassadin, ezreal, ekko, ap warwick, sona, etc. and via passive: eg. lux/zoe. Although there are some champions that buy lich to increase a "sorta-lacking" burst on their kits, like LeBlanc - if she doesn't manage to get her passive damage, her skills doesnt scale very well actually. I think there's no need to change the item. the only reason to change it would be if the item was so broken that any champion would buy. XD
> [{quoted}](name=Hurting is Yummy,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=WO8UtiYm,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-07T03:37:14.688+0000) > > Well, lichbane's always been an unique item. It sinergizes very well with specific champions that already have a built-in empowered auto via skills: eg. akali, fizz, kassadin, ezreal, ekko, ap warwick, sona, etc. and via passive: eg. lux/zoe. Although there are some champions that buy lich to increase a "sorta-lacking" burst on their kits, like LeBlanc - if she doesn't manage to get her passive damage, her skills doesnt scale very well actually. I think there's no need to change the item. the only reason to change it would be if the item was so broken that any champion would buy. XD Well rework lichbane or add in an additional item to fit the role of what I described, both accomplish the same goal so I guess it wouldn't matter. The end goal is to still get a primary core item added in for AP assassins to use. Keep in mind that everyone else you described besides Sona and AP Ezreal still benefit from it. Fizz still has one of the stiffest builds out there and Akali is largely screwed due to her core item being heavily gold inefficient and lacking a good build path, among her mechanical issues of course. Speaking from Fizz's perspective, you die far too easily late game without hourglass, Voidstaff's magic pen is mandatory for late game damage due to a lack of flat pen like AD assassins have, and Lichbanes damage is too high to pass up. No matter what you're stuck with your first item as being your only flexible choice, perhaps another slot if you choose to get another item for your fifth then sell sorc shoes for deathcap. However that first item is limited as you NEED an early to mid game power spike to stay relevant, and you need atleast 10% CDR from it to hit 40% late game using the CDR rune from the sorcery tree. This also serves to limit your rune choices. The current item is Protobelt for these reasons but it has some major flaws. After the initial powerspike of your Hextech revolver you fall off because your next component item is kindle gem which slows down and scaling for the time being. Then once you complete the item you only get a small upgrade in damage from the active and 20 AP, giving you 60 in total which is a massive damper on your damage for the remainder of the match. At this point your next item is a sheen and then into lichbane, another set of bad build paths for an Assassin. Sheen only giving mana and the passive damage, but being mostly mandatory as a first item after protobelt because you need to stack CDR as quickly as possible in order to keep your ultimate up.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: My apologies, I was under the impression that he was talking about a champion's ability.
> [{quoted}](name=Amy Sery,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=saHKoW6K,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-13T12:46:26.804+0000) > > My apologies, I was under the impression that he was talking about a champion's ability. Dark harvest is the name of the third Domination keystone. The one that looks like a Spooky hood/grimreaper.
: Ghost Poro suggestion
Could probably do with adding in a special key bind for it.
: Hi! Please post ideas on [EUW boards](http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/), [NA boards](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/) or [Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/). You can get more visibility there because the community is larger. The PBE boards are meant for feedback on content *currently* on PBE, not for suggestions.
This IS feedback on a Rune that IS currently being tested and worked with on PBE as part of the runes reforged.
: DFT gains that damage from appliance to majority of the team consistently. If Comet's CD were much lower it would easily match it reasonably with how unreliable it is to land.
Actually DFT has a major damage difference even in single target applications. In terms of damage it was comparable to thunderlords on a single proc, massively out damaged it if you kept procing it, and became far stronger than other options when it came to applying it to multiple targets. For comet to even compare you'd need a stupidly low cooldown, like 1.5 seconds or something, and the range would need to be high enough to beable to consistently hit multiple people.
: All they gotta do is lower comet's CD and it would be a proper replacement, but atm they're letting DFT champs just release and will address it later... I'd even take summon aerie if they'd fix it's return time to 2 seconds level 1 to 0.5 or 1 second at level 18
DFT's total damage is MASSIVELY higher than comet and can be applied to several champions. The damage potential is just not comparable.
Rioter Comments
: What rank are you my dude? In what world does any competitive toplaner pass up flash?
Do you mean professional? I'm referring to solo queue. Alot of top lane champions who can synergize with Ghost often do take it over flash based on the players personal preference. Singed is a must for ghost, Nasus often takes ghost, I see a decent few darius players take flash ghost for lane cheesing including dyrus, and any other top laner that would want movement speed would also have many instances where they take ghost.
: LOL OH MAN THIS D00D Lets break this down >The description reads "Cooldown: 180s Starts the game on cooldown and goes on cooldown if interrupted during channeling." This leads me to believe that I can use it as many times as I want as long as I'm not hit by anything during the 2 second wind up, but it goes on cooldown no matter what you do period. HEXDE. OK buddy, so this is a simple reading comprehension problem on your part. Someone below already tagged you for it. No biggie. >180 second CD for a keystone is far too high. It's basically a knock off summoner spell when you could and logically would take ghost for movements peed and other keystones that you can get way more usage out of in those 180 seconds. This is a pretty stupid thing to say, allow me to explain why. You claim predator is a "knock off summoner spell", implying that the keystone doesnt inherently have as much power as every summoner spell, let alone STRONGER. So, lets break that claim down. Ghost: Your champion is granted Ghost ghosting for 10 seconds, gaining increased movement speed. Grants a maximum of 28% - 45% (based on level) movement speed after accelerating for 2 seconds. 180 second cooldown. Predator: Channel for 1.5 seconds out of combat to gain increased movement speed (45%) for 15 seconds. Damaging attacks or abilities end this effect, dealing 60 - 140 (+0.2 bonus AD)(+0.3 AP) bonus damage. Cooldown: 180s Starts the game on cooldown and goes on cooldown if interrupted while channeling. So, with these two effects side by side, a couple things become clear. 1: Predator gives more MS than Ghost at every single level of the game until 18 2: Predator has a longer maximum direction than ghost (10), by 5 (15) 3: Predator grants full MS instantly, (upon finishing the 1.5 channel time), while ghost requires 2 seconds to fully activate. 4: Predator expires upon dealing damage to an enemy champion, HOWEVER, grants a chunk of damage (40 - 140) that SCALES with either AP (0.3), or bonus AD (0.2) 5: Predator does not grant the "ghosted" effect, which enables you to move through units. So, we can see that predator actually surpasses ghost in many areas, but also has some key weaknesses, such as falling off as soon as the target is reached. How much this impacts the champion this effect is utilized on will very, but most champions who would take this keystone simply need the MS to get into range, they dont need the MS to stick. With this information, it can be easily concluded that predator is not a "discount summoner spell", as it clearly has as much power as most summoner spells, especially the one most would directly compare it to. Now, as for the claim that "anyone who uses this keystone would take ghost instead"... this is just dumb brah No toplaner is ever going to give up flash or tp for ghost. Hell, most champions in general wouldn't give up flash for ghost, flash is mandatory in most cases. What assassin is going to give up ignite or flash for ghost? The claim that taking ghost instead of this keystone would always be a better option is folly. Predator is basically a summoner spell that takes a keystone slot. It is unique, and powerful. It is basically a guaranteed roam kill every 180 seconds on any midlaner that takes it, and on certain toplaners (Juggernauts), it is one of the best flank tools in the game, that can be taken ALONGSIDE flash and teleport. fin
Predator is deactivated upon taking damage or dealing damage which includes disabling the movement speed buff then putting it on a full cooldown. Already shit compared to ghost. Top laners are mostly juggernauts so they'd want resolve anyway which means they can't even grab this keystone, and if they're going to ignore resolve anyway then they can just grab Phase Rush or Fleeting. Both offer a solid movement speed buff and can be used in quick succession for better chase potential and thus more utility/usage out of them. Predator gives you a better potential engage but next to no damage compared to other damage runes and can only be used one every fortnight. Damage focused toplaners like Fiora, Jax, Riven, Rumble, Yasuo, ect. would never take this to begin with so they're out of the question. And you're completely wrong. Most junglers and top laners who can and would take this would also take ghost. Darius, Hecarim, Rammus, Nasus, Yi, Singed, ect. Darius might not take ghost as a default option, but alot of solo queue darius's who like to cheese lane take ghost over TP and would benefit more from Phase Rush anyway.
: Have you actually used it or just basing this on numbers? Answer: Basing it on numbers. If you actually try it on the right junglers you'll see it feels quite effective.
I've used it alot on PBE so far. Yes, it can be good when it's actually used, but the whole point is that so many other combinations will offer you similar or greater power and can be used several or even dozens of times in the time span it takes for that ability to come back off cooldown.
: I fail to see what's confusing or incorrect. * The active has a cooldown. * The item begins the game on cooldown, preventing you from using it in first blood fights. * The item is also put on cooldown if you're interrupted. In my opinion, this should be a reduced cooldown, so I would agree this is too punishing. The "this item goes on cooldown if interrupted" should not convey "this item _only_ goes on cooldown if you're interrupted". This is a fault in your comprehension, not the wording. As for the high cooldown - the effect basically is a summoner spell. It's a stronger Ghost with a built in Smite. If it was up any more frequently, your lane opponent would never get the opportunity to breathe.
No, definitely the wording. And no it's a stupid keystone. Junglers would get infinitely more usage out of any other combination. Summoner CD for ghost which is actually better because it'd have a significantly reduced CD and doesn't actually stop the effect when you enter combat. Ghost and Electrocute or Dark Harvest if you want movement speed + damage. Righteous Glory + Damage. And the movement speed isn't particularly good in alot of cases. Normally it only works if you're actually stacking it with other forms of movement speed, and junglers like Hec and rammus don't need it to get to people in the first place. All it's accomplishing is 1 situation every 3 minutes where you run hilariously fast.
Rioter Comments
: Won't somebody think of the children Junglers
They're specifically buffing Hunters talisman and Machete items to cover for this and you get passive flat stats based on what keystone tree you chose. They are also giving out flat armor across all champions, so it's not even a big deal. Jungle clear is fine as far as I've experienced and Dark harvest is actually a really strong keystone if you're properly farming your jungle.
: Not saying there aren't better options for damage and chase, but I believe predator is more for that "I haven't warded in awhile oh hi jungler" or "im going to invade and may need a burst of speed with my tier 1 first back boots" situations.
The drawback is too bad for its usage. If it dealt like twice or even 3x the damage of thunderlords then I could justify it.
: when i used it on khazix if the channel was interuppted it would go on a significantly lower cooldown then if the damage proc went off. i'm not sure what it was but it was a few days ago
It's like 230 vs 180, both are unbelievably high CD's for a keystone. The amount of stats I could squeeze out of any other options would far surpass what I'd gain from using that. I could use the warlords rune to get infinitely more chase potential, and even the new thunderlords with its higher CD would still give me 5x more damage with its lower CD and high base damage.
: Predator is not meant to be a power spike. Predator is meant to benefit junglers more than anything else. {{champion:56}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:2}} Imagine one of these guys just flying in on you at 800 move speed.
I actually just discovered that no matter what it goes on CD. So either the ability is bugged or the description is completely wrong. If it's meant to behave like the description suggests then I can get behind it, otherwise it's a completely and utterly trash tier keystone for being on the same CD as ghost. Can easily just take ghost and make use of better runes or even just get the new version of warlords.
Rioter Comments
: korea aatrox master rework patch proposal
I'm quite positive that this guy knows what he's talking about. Unfortunately, I'm also quite sure that he doesn't know english and trusted google translate abit too much. I'm sure if he could speak to a korean Rioter in his native language then he'd most likely offer some decent feedback.
: the revive passive is good, read bruh its all on your ultimate, every auto attack gives you 20% blood (Even if you're already in blood rush, making you extend the duration.) and yeah, CC are good against you. core items to be more stronger: {{item:3153}} chase potential and tank shreding, and quite good sustain at all. {{item:3111}} MR and very good to have Tenacity on AA bruisers. {{item:3053}} The only item that can make your passive more effective, because it increases you 25% base AD and 25% when it procs, making ur passive give you around 46/50 AD. {{item:3071}} Move speed on-hit, and a lot of hp, and the best part is all your skills are physical, making you shred faster. {{item:2138}} you can also buy this for extra tenacity.
I've actually found the revive passive to be useless. It only delays your inevitable death when behind, gives the enemy an opportunity to form a relation when you're not, and rarely actually gives you any use. Saying he'd be "bad" without the revive is not a valid argument. You're forgetting the fact that without the revive, his kit would have additional space where something can be added to fill the power budget gap left by the revive. By giving something like a built in free revive on his passive, he naturally has to lack in other areas or atleast can't have too much power in his other abilities. Even if the revive is crap that's just how "Power budget" is. Riot has a weird way of rating an ability. But without the revive then something would be added to fill the gap. He could get more raw defensive stats, his abilities could get raw stat buffs, he could and may very well get a better and more reliable passive, ect. But with the revive it's just seen as something that has too much potential to be broken so they can't afford to fiddle with the rest of his kit too much.
Rioter Comments
: A: can't be done. Some bugs are caused by the fact that certain champions are banned. B: someone can only dodge once per day really, as the dodge timers after that are pretty long. Also, some people have connection issues and they shouldn't be punished for it. C: can't be done because then the testing results will no longer be comparable to the live servers. It's a standalone mode with bugs other modes don't have and vice versa. Just bringing back blind pick solves it all. Riot should already be looking into this.
I'd like alittle more detail into why A can't be done. I meant punish the person that banned said champion. Connection issues won't make you ban WW. As for C I agree with the point but it still seems like having a larger quantity of data from PvP matches is better than having the majority of feedback coming from players who were forced to play AI's just so they could get their hands on the champion. Blind pick would also result in the same thing. People are dodging regardless of the penalty so they'll just continue dodging regardless of if the champion was banned or someone else simply picked it before them.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Fizz and his concept and design.
1: He's not like other assassins. He's always been more of an initiator than other assassins so this rework is defining that more and giving him more power to fulfill that role. 2: He's always always been played as a tankier champion? Due to how up risky of a champion he is he's always built with defensive utility items in order to simply live. With his new kit the focus is the land the perfect shark to initiate, this procs the seastone trident passive for single target burst as well as AOE burst on entire teams. 3: Again, he's focused as an initiator. He's always needed to be close range, not sure who you've been playing. 4: He kit is very much stronger that it was before, with much more reliable burst over that really crappy per auto on hit that required 2-4 auto's with the 20% increased damage from shark to get something out of it. A per auto on hit does not belong on an assassin. 5: Still not sure who you're playing but the design changes all feel very clean and the AA reset on the W is lovely to use. 6: This is why R applies the W mark to the affected target upon latching to it. Hence the whole thing about him being an initiator. 7: I would say being an AOE teamfight focused champion with massive out play potential for 1v1's is pretty unique. 8: Pretty sure almost everyone will agree with me saying that he does infact fit the "trickster" role pretty well. 9: His old W was a per Auto on hit where you had to spend your time face tanking the enemy in order to get your damage off. The led to his standard builds opting out damage for utility and defensive stats just to stay alive which even further dropped his damage. His new W can be safely proced by either ulting your target, or utilizing your E or an hourglass to wait out the mark. 9: The numbers are fine with a solid 100% AP ratio (for the moment) on the empowered W. It really does sound like you simply aren't playing this rework properly and in turn, you're thinking that it's the fault of the champion.
: [Assassins] - Mini Updates Discussion
Someone told me to take my feedback about Fizz I put into a normal post and put it in here. My thoughts on the Fizz rework as a Fizz main. I don't actually have any issues with his current PBE version and couldn't possible be any happier with what Riot did with him but these 2 things are simply some optional additions based off of my opinions about him. First, I think that his passive still doesn't belong in his kit in its current state. It's a laning phase passive meant to help him with his problem of taking alot of minion aggro and auto attacks but unfortunately doesn't even block any amount of meaningful damage till later on where it's no longer relevant. While I personally don't think that a passive that's only useful in a specific stage of the game should even exist, I also think his kit is actually very well off where it's at in PBE right now. If it were to be changed I'd suggest taking out the level scaling and changing it to negating damage from minion attacks only, while increasing his base armor. If the current PBE version of fizz goes live then he will definitely shine outside of laning phase meaning he needs to have a rough early game, but he already gets destroyed by ranged abilities so giving him abit more durability to auto's and minion agro would help to still make his laning phase tough, not impossible. The second thing is that I feel his W's new mana refund should scale beyond refunding half of the cost. If I could change it I might make it like this: 50% refund at level 1. 60% refund at level 2, 75% refund at level 3, and 100% refund at levels 4 and 5. Another mechanic I would add is extra mana gained from killing a unit that's afflicted with a fully stacked Sea stone trident bleed. If the unit has the fully stacked bleed that allows for the critical W proc then it automatically refunds 100% of the cost as well as a small bonus. Example: 105% refund at level 1, 110% at levels 2 and 3, 115% at level 4, and 125% at level 5. 1 last mechanic behind this would potentially have a reduced stacking time on the bleed passive for minions (not monsters).
: Suggestions for new content should be posted in their respective locations on the [NA](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/) and [EUW](http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/) boards or [Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/). The PBE is for content **currently** in testing.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: I don't feel like this is completely fair. To preface this, i have only played one game on the PBE. Ques do take more time which is expected considering the relatively small amount of testers when compared to being on the main server. Its not realistic though to play the pbe just for an item or a map and be upset when riot has to make a change. You have an unlocked account and a very nice PBE community, just reach out a little bit :) It neat to get to try everything and give your feedback to make the game you play more fun for you and your friends!
> [{quoted}](name=mjprince,realm=PBE,application-id=cMKtzQHY,discussion-id=NUqdUcsR,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-14T23:18:01.964+0000) > > I don't feel like this is completely fair. To preface this, i have only played one game on the PBE. Ques do take more time which is expected considering the relatively small amount of testers when compared to being on the main server. Its not realistic though to play the pbe just for an item or a map and be upset when riot has to make a change. You have an unlocked account and a very nice PBE community, just reach out a little bit :) It neat to get to try everything and give your feedback to make the game you play more fun for you and your friends! I give feedback when there's feedback to give. I get on,use new things, and then share my opinions. If i'm not getting on the PBE the test an item, a map, a new game mechanic, or a champion then what am I here for?
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Kennen could still buy it because his E is just a speed buff; mobility as in dash, jump, hops, blinks, etc because the active is a dash- speed buff champions can still buy the item since its not instant or near instant mobility Kennen's E is 100% base movement speed for 2 seconds which he can cancel early and 10/20/30/40/50 armor and mr for 4 seconds; so Galio can still buy it too
> [{quoted}](name=Stacona,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=llHddLP1,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-04-09T19:02:38.248+0000) > > Kennen could still buy it because his E is just a speed buff; mobility as in dash, jump, hops, blinks, etc because the active is a dash- speed buff champions can still buy the item since its not instant or near instant mobility > > Kennen's E is 100% base movement speed for 2 seconds which he can cancel early and 10/20/30/40/50 armor and mr for 4 seconds; so Galio can still buy it too Well we'll see how things go and maybe they will limit the item use.
: How to balance out Hextech Fire Pumpkin
I kinda disagree with the idea of limiting hextech fire pumpkin as there are still champions with mobility spells that don't actually benefit from their mobility spells in the right way, case in point kennen and his E, besides the dash can't go through walls and it's not exactly the greatest.
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HongChongDong

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