Rioter Comments
: Xayah and Rakan Feedback Thread
My only real complaint with Rakan is the range of his Q. Like 20-30 units more range would be perfect for him. Otherwise he is a very fun support and kudos to the people who worked on him. I like Xayah's kit and aesthetics but I also really can't say much about her for any balance complaints as I really have no experience with her. Kudos again to those who worked on her.
: Kled Gameplay Feedback Thread
I've found Kled to be very enjoyable and not that much in need of specific tweaks aside from a few bug fixes. However I will say: 1) Kled while unmounted feels a wee bit too weak in terms of survivability. A light tap towards making him survive a bit longer while unmounted would help him. 2) Jungling as Kled, at least the first clear, can be risky as you try to keep Skaarl around. Just a few light taps to make him a better jungler while not being too over the top.
: Skaarl Courage Generation
I agree when it comes to killing large monsters.
: 5 players WTF Riot open more servers
Its not the server issue. The issue is that EVERYONE wants to test the new character. Its simply insanity to not mandatory include the All For One mode for one week with a new champion's release onto the PBE. It allows people who just simply want to play Kled and not leave feedback to go AF1 with Kled. It also makes it harder on everyone when they want to test something quick and specific with a new champion like say jungling or a specific item or item build. As we have now wound-up with requiring 5 players at minimum due to the massive demand.
: This is literally suggested every time a new champion is added and the answer is ALWAYS no. A vital part of testing a champion is to see his power against other champions and more importantly, how he interacts with other champions.
> [{quoted}](name=Catman,realm=PBE,application-id=cMKtzQHY,discussion-id=E0vPyTlh,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-07-26T04:06:05.199+0000) > > This is literally suggested every time a new champion is added and the answer is ALWAYS no. A vital part of testing a champion is to see his power against other champions and more importantly, how he interacts with other champions. Its a problem as is on the first couple days as you always get a flood of people who just want to try the new champ a few times and not submit feedback. It also makes trying to use custom games to test a new character in say jungle position harder and take more time when you need 2-5 more players. It also makes it a faster assessment than what currently happens as people rage quit and dodge if they do not get the new character. Its not helpful in the current state into testing and it would better "slake the thirst" of people who simply want to try it but not submit feedback. I want to submit feedback about Kled but it takes awhile longer to accumulate data because there is plenty who dodge and instant-lock. EDIT: ALSO It would be for the first week not the entire PBE cycle for a new champion that is timed to the release of a new champion. As people would still have a chance to test the new champion in normal and ranked games.
Rioter Comments
: The Azir nerfs are too much
I have no idea why someone at Riot decided the problem with Azir was the duration of his R and the movement speed bonus it provided. Feels like a nerf in the wrong area. Also they changed its duration on the PBE from 2 seconds to 3.
: Taliyah feedback thread
I know they don't plan to make any changes to Taliyah now but I actually became kind of sad after seeing the paper version for one of Taliyah's kit. Not because it was bad but it gave more reasoning onto why Worked Ground was the way it was. Basically the Worked Ground effect was her passive and was created by each of her abilities. However each of her abilities was empowered when used on Unworked Ground. It lasted for 40 seconds to 3 minutes (Duration based on game length). Also that her ultimate would prevent Worked Ground areas from being created while it lasted which was an ability called Earthquake which created an AoE field that periodically slowed, damaged and crippled (aka grounded) enemies. If Zenon wanted to buff her kit in anyway, how about make her E (Unraveled Earth) able to heal/prevent Worked Ground from being created in its same presence.
: yeah I think it would be better like that, but what if you want to knock them up in the same place?
> [{quoted}](name=BBrand,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=uEIgH2wM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-05-12T09:30:04.430+0000) > > yeah I think it would be better like that, but what if you want to knock them up in the same place? Click and release. Knock them in a direction? Click-drag-release.
: So... what do you guys think of Taliyah at her current state
I would say she is going to need quality of life buffs to bring her in line. Basically think how it was for Bard. She doesn't need huge buffs but I feel like they are shipping a weak product to the masses. Her win rate on opening week I bet being 43-48%. Basically same as any other champion thats gone through the pbe when they feel a bit weak.
: aurelion sol is so weak so nerfed
At most? He needs Quality of Life buffs. Nothing major.
: So as i play her more and more its becoming extremely obvious that somthing has to be done about her Q on worked ground. E>W isnt reliable enough and if you get caught with W down your dead. I get that closing the gap is supposed to be her weakness but her Q in worked ground is too punishing even as you are kiting. If someone slows you on worked ground it feels almost impossible to get off in time to continue kiting away during which Q is absolutely worthless. There needs to be a added benefit or a lesser penalty for being on worked ground because it is way too punishing atm. Also too much of her power/damage is tied up in E>W. If you cant land it her damage is absolutely non existent but it puts you so close to harms way. Some of it needs to shifted back to Q or E>W needs a slight range increase. To drop a good E puts you literally in every assassin/tanks gap closer range. Shes got alot of potential but shes too dangerous for the possible picks she can bring.
> [{quoted}](name=Soujiro24,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=AhzcAqEz,comment-id=0046,timestamp=2016-05-10T16:33:58.950+0000) > > So as i play her more and more its becoming extremely obvious that somthing has to be done about her Q on worked ground. E>W isnt reliable enough and if you get caught with W down your dead. I get that closing the gap is supposed to be her weakness but her Q in worked ground is too punishing even as you are kiting. If someone slows you on worked ground it feels almost impossible to get off in time to continue kiting away during which Q is absolutely worthless. There needs to be a added benefit or a lesser penalty for being on worked ground because it is way too punishing atm. > > Also too much of her power/damage is tied up in E>W. If you cant land it her damage is absolutely non existent but it puts you so close to harms way. Some of it needs to shifted back to Q or E>W needs a slight range increase. To drop a good E puts you literally in every assassin/tanks gap closer range. Shes got alot of potential but shes too dangerous for the possible picks she can bring. Quite. Like in exchange for how they weakened the AP ratio on her W, they could: A) Translate that into +25-50 range on her E. B) Add a third benefit to her Q like a 15-25% cooldown refund for it when used on Worked Ground. C) They could reduce the "cooldown" on her passive from 5 seconds to 4 or 3 seconds. D) They could reduce the duration of her traps on her E from 4 seconds to 3.5 seconds. E) They could lower the cooldown a tiny bit on her ultimate to like 155/135/115 considering its a pure utility ultimate and not a damage-based ultimate. F) Her Threaded Volley on Worked Ground has an increased AP ratio of (50-60?) from 40. I am in favor of shifting power from parts of her kit if we analyzed this like she has a " kit budget" instead of just simply taking away power from it. I personally have been remaining hopeful. checking the S@20 site daily as I look for changes to Taliyah's kit.
: Can Bards E interact with Taliyahs R?
Straight: No. Horizontal/Diagonal: Yes. Her wall with only 1 rank is 3000 units in length Bard's magical journey is 2600 units in length.
Rioter Comments
: Taliyah's emotes are not completely visible
: Dominion and Bard
I don't think bard's chimes spawn in the enemy nexus. Perhaps they should make it so if it does spawn in those towers that it spawns on the very edge of them. http://2new1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Teemo+is+love+teemo+is+life+_34e8999ff34fc772c878959c0e4281f60.png
: Taliyah feedback thread
How her Q feels on unworked ground for me: http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll2ojgAdqG1qhpw93.gif How her Q feels on worked ground for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RpgbZcHk_A In fact I can recall something from Pathfinder (Dungeons & Dragons 3.75) that is basically Worked Ground in a nutshell. Its the burn mechanic from the Kineticist class. Whats a Kineticist? Basically think Taliyah in a pen & paper game. Burn is a mechanic for this class that causes them to receive penalties and benefits for just doing their thing. However the penalties are greater than the benefits and make the class feel supbar in comparison. Like I am talking about how if {{champion:63}} was actually a Wizard if this was pen and paper game. As he would focus on Evocation (destructive elemental magic) he would actually be in a better spot than Taliyah (earth kineticist) because {{champion:63}} doesn't have a tacked on drawback to his spells other than their normal cost and their range. I mean seriously it just makes me shudder thinking about this drawback called Worked Ground being on any preexisting mage champion's kit. {{champion:1}} ? {{champion:63}} ? {{champion:55}} ? {{champion:101}} ? {{champion:8}} ? Worked Ground on their kits would be absolutely bad on them. As they basically get on their Q: 1) minus 67% Damage. 2) plus 50% Resource Refund 3) plus Speed Boost. Her Worked Ground is very much parasitic in nature to the rest of her kit. The only synergy it in fact has with her kit is that you can get a speed boost from Worked Ground while your Rock Surfing (passive) is active as they do stack. I'm not against the mana refund mechanic or the speed boost provided by Worked Ground, but the damage trade off is very harsh on her. It doesn't feel like a large enough benefit from her Worked Ground effect. Like its honestly lacking something on her Threaded Volley while on Worked Ground. Such as a X% cooldown refund, X% increased damage, greater penetration, etc, etc. The synergy by itself most of the time makes it even more parastic to deal with. The current version of {{champion:63}} 's kit that IS more symbiotic in nature than Taliyah's. He lacks any mobility based abilities. Yet the symbiosis here kicks in. Although he lacks any mobility tools, his kit provides him with slows and stuns which allow him to fight better and catch up with his targets. Yet its not just that, his abilities are also symbiotic in general as he has a combo playstyle. Even his passive works in harmony with the rest of his kit and rewards you for playing the character as an immobile combo mage as it gives you that "big payoff" moment with him. Which I would say is something sorely missing in Taliyah's kit as she doesn't really have a "big payoff" moment even with her E-W combo. Worked Ground in itself in my opinion needs a much much shorter duration timer on it like a static 100 second duration. From 3 minutes to 1 min & 40 seconds. If that happened and lets say it also refunded the cooldown by like 50% it would be in a much better spot and not feel like: {{sticker:zombie-nunu-tears}}
: I'll have to disagree with the worked ground comment. The whole point of the cooldown being so long is so that people DON'T spam the move. She is clearly very technical and not the kind of champion you spam moves with. Everything is calculated and that includes when to use your q. If you are using your q too often, try using E and some well placed auto attacks for clearing. Q should only be used when you know you are going to land all 5 stones, if you could cast all 5 stones like that any more often than she already can, she would be over powered.
> [{quoted}](name=Asahina Katsuo,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=q0Yj6JNE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-05-07T04:13:30.460+0000) > > I'll have to disagree with the worked ground comment. The whole point of the cooldown being so long is so that people DON'T spam the move. She is clearly very technical and not the kind of champion you spam moves with. Everything is calculated and that includes when to use your q. If you are using your q too often, try using E and some well placed auto attacks for clearing. Q should only be used when you know you are going to land all 5 stones, if you could cast all 5 stones like that any more often than she already can, she would be over powered. Make it a static 100 second duration. 1 minute and 40 seconds instead of 3 minutes aka 180 seconds. Better jungling. Better laning phase. Still keeps the same current drawbacks and benefits otherwise. If the Taliyah player is spammey she will still run out of room but there is now room for error. In a 100 second time, she can get out 14 Worked Grounds from her Threaded Volley. She can still royally screw herself over if she is spammey but its not as oppressive in the early game.
: Just curious, but are we going to get any conversation going? I understand you guys are pretty busy and I'm sure you're at least reading the comments, but it feels a little weird that of all the changes this patch, we've only gotten one comment on the feedback given to Taliyah herself. The rest of the Rioter responses seem far more concerned with her skin and the new mastery levels. Would it be okay if we got a "current opinions" update in regards to the comments posted thus far?
> [{quoted}](name=Pierrot Forte,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=AhzcAqEz,comment-id=003a,timestamp=2016-05-07T03:13:49.414+0000) > > Just curious, but are we going to get any conversation going? I understand you guys are pretty busy and I'm sure you're at least reading the comments, but it feels a little weird that of all the changes this patch, we've only gotten one comment on the feedback given to Taliyah herself. The rest of the Rioter responses seem far more concerned with her skin and the new mastery levels. Would it be okay if we got a "current opinions" update in regards to the comments posted thus far? ^ Very much this.
: 1) I agree with the refunding CD as well as mana. Single rock Q is very punishing right now. Maybe it should reduce the cooldown on the worked ground it was fired from. 2) I think it's something that just needs to get used to. 3) Her E has a slow already... 4) Maybe her ult should give her a shield, and if it pops she's thrown off the wall. She shouldn't be able to go through a 5-man blaze of damage.
> [{quoted}](name=Vifeb,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=AhzcAqEz,comment-id=002d0000,timestamp=2016-05-07T03:05:47.925+0000) > > 4) Maybe her ult should give her a shield, and if it pops she's thrown off the wall. She shouldn't be able to go through a 5-man blaze of damage. ??? She already gets knocked off the wall if she takes damage from other champions.
: I dont think shes terrible but she is kinda weak compared to other control mages. For how she has to setup to do damage its pretty weak compared to like an Orianna or someone else.
> [{quoted}](name=Soujiro24,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=AhzcAqEz,comment-id=00390000,timestamp=2016-05-07T02:08:52.462+0000) > > I dont think shes terrible but she is kinda weak compared to other control mages. For how she has to setup to do damage its pretty weak compared to like an Orianna or someone else. Yeah same impression I got. She just needs some tweaks like you know some quality of life buffs to like her passive as one example to make her feel really good to play as. Speaking of tweaks, I'm not quiet sure why the AP ration on her W (Sesimic Shove) went from 50% to 40%.
: It's something I've done before, and it is very tight, but it's not really what I'm talking about. When you're smartcasting, if you press W once, you can't press Q until W pops or until you direct the blast, which sucks because a lot of the time I just want to keep them where they are and Q. For some reason, until you press W again, all other ability inputs don't go through.
> [{quoted}](name=PHoToS999,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=AHZlwKca,comment-id=00030001000200000000,timestamp=2016-05-06T09:36:44.548+0000) > > It's something I've done before, and it is very tight, but it's not really what I'm talking about. When you're smartcasting, if you press W once, you can't press Q until W pops or until you direct the blast, which sucks because a lot of the time I just want to keep them where they are and Q. For some reason, until you press W again, all other ability inputs don't go through. To me its like she has a mini-channel on her W but yeah it locks you out.
: > to be blunt Q, the worked ground Q is useless.... half mana is very situational... The plain fact is it hits one target with little trade off makes you want to play around NOT standing in your worked ground to use your Q. I don't think the worked ground from Q is supposed to have benefit attached to it (excluding the passive ms, of course). It fits thematically and realistically that if you destroy the ground below you to gather rocks, you won't be able to do it many times. The passive ms is there so Taliyah can make some use of it, a defensive one for that matter. For me at least, it feels pretty great to play around worked ground. At the same time you can be a lot more powerful, you also create a weakness that you have to adapt to. It also makes Taliyah very dynamic as she is constantly trying to position herself both to hit all Q rocks and to play around worked ground, it's amazing design.
Apparently when they were designing her kit: The Worked Ground effect is intentionally meant as a resource system and a counterplay option for her opponents to predict her movements.
: Taliyah feedback thread
I was just discussing this with a couple mates of mine but what if Taliyah's Threaded Volley (q) worked on an Ammo resource system? As long as she is constantly moving around she gains 1 stack for every X seconds. Max Stacks = 5. When she activates her Q she fires a number of rocks equal to the number of stacks she has. Doing so causes her to reset her Q stacks to zero as she consumes all stacks. Firing her rocks from her Q while within the Worked Ground zone would cause her to consume twice the number of stacks for half the number of rocks (rounded up). **Rocks To Stacks Ratios** 1 rock = 1 stack. 1 rock = 2 stacks. 2 rocks = 3 stack. 2 rocks = 4 stacks. 3 rocks = 5 stacks. This would function very similar to {{champion:157}} 's passive: Flow. As you would be rewarded more for constantly moving around. Plus this would go better with her nomadic side and also with the short story "Bird and the Branch" where she collected rocks and put them in her coat pocket. As she puts more ranks in her Threaded Volley (Q), the rate at which she gains stones increases. Like lets say Rank 1 is she collects a rock once every 2.5 seconds while moving (12.5 seconds max for 5 stacks). At Rank 5 its every .5 seconds (2.5 seconds max for 5 stacks) _(These numbers are not final and can be easily changed). _
: I feel she needs a passive added on to her ultimate. Her real passive is just so lackluster already. Her Q is simply badly designed. It is similar to Lucian's Cull because it fires at a targeted direction relative to movement of the champion. Unlike Lucian, however, the "worked ground" requirement forces Taliyah to re-position to get the extra shots out, often into a less ideal position to actually land the additional shots, or into a more dangerous position/overextending. The mana refund or small AOE damage is simply not enough to justify the loss of DPS.
> [{quoted}](name=NearFlaccid,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=x9lnWast,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-05-05T20:34:44.781+0000) > > I feel she needs a passive added on to her ultimate. Her real passive is just so lackluster already. From what I noticed one such suggestion is to take her current passive (Rock Surfing) and place it on her ultimate. As the ultimate is already very bare bones it wouldn't make the ultimate too overpowered. Then to take the now vacant passive slot she has and fill it with something that helps her out in a different manner. Also on the matter of (Rock Surfing) as it went hand and hand with the idea of placing it on the ultimate: Have her gain the benefits of Rock Surfing while on Worked Ground.
: Taliyah Feedback
Apparently one of her earlier passives that was deemed "useless" was: > Taliyah's next auto attack is empowered if she is standing next to a wall. >Cooldown: ??? If I had to guess it would have been in the 12-18 second range like other such passives.
: Let's talk about taliyah Riot
Her kit doesn't need a massive overhaul. Most of it however does need quiet a few QoL buffs and changes. The only thing I would argue that is mostly fine actually is her ultimate. A lot of the things talked about in ^ that thread that Lunar Revel have many many beta testers who have noticed several issues. Before that thread popped up there was like 15+ gameplay feedback threads that came to similar conclusions on her kit.
: The biggest problem right now is that you can't cast other things before directing the blast. So it's almost never the best idea to do the actual knockup in place version.
> [{quoted}](name=PHoToS999,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=AHZlwKca,comment-id=000300010002,timestamp=2016-05-05T16:02:26.526+0000) > > The biggest problem right now is that you can't cast other things before directing the blast. So it's almost never the best idea to do the actual knockup in place version. You actually can do a W-E combo instead of a E-W. However with the W-E combo it'd be like trying to pull of a very tight combo in a fighting game while also it being simultaneously unreliable.
: Taliyah feedback thread
I'm nervous to use my Q. As I'm worried I will zone myself out of lane if I use it more than a couple times. As it seems like my Q works against me when I am just trying to play her normally. I'm worried that if I use this to freely I will get ganked in lane by assassins and other champs who can dunk me as it feels like I don't always have the proper tools to zone them and my Q can cost me dearly for a trade. I don't feel comfortable about my passive as it makes me very distracted when wall hugging. I wish the worked ground would help give me some leeway to gain focus on traveling so I can pay attention better. Also I don't always feel safe when wall hugging as I feel it makes my movements predictable. I don't always feel like I can safely use my E without standing right next to a melee minion to affect the whole wave. As I am nervous I might get poked down for a good chunk of my health.
: If you max her Q you wouldn't be using it for waveclear, unless you're desperate. It'd solely be for kill pressure.
> [{quoted}](name=CrazyMLC,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=x9lnWast,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-05T00:58:53.009+0000) > > If you max her Q you wouldn't be using it for waveclear, unless you're desperate. It'd solely be for kill pressure. I didn't mention that was her waveclear, just that you would be punished for using it as a bread and butter skill. Her E-W is the best wave clear she has. Although that is a bit of a risky play with her as well depending on her lane opponent(s).
Rioter Comments
: Her Q gets 60 damage per rank and has a very low cooldown. It may not be as powerful in lane as her E because of worked ground, but it's definitely her best damage ability if she can keep casting the 5 stone version. Wouldn't call it a noob trap, personally.
> [{quoted}](name=CrazyMLC,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=x9lnWast,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-05-04T23:34:31.044+0000) > > Her Q gets 60 damage per rank and has a very low cooldown. It may not be as powerful in lane as her E because of worked ground, but it's definitely her best damage ability if she can keep casting the 5 stone version. Wouldn't call it a noob trap, personally. It can definitely be a noob trap if someone were to rely on that as the bread and butter skill of her kit during the laning phase. As eventually you get zoned out by your own Q if not careful with it as it can actually be a very punishing skill. And if your laning that can actually be quiet easy to zone yourself out of lane by virtue of the Worked Ground. I personally had better luck with a E-W combo for clearing minion waves than her Q. Late game sure the damage on her Q tends to rock as you have the entire map to work with and aren't just regulated to a lane to stay in for several minutes.
: Speaking of steepness of mastery curves, by the way, the king of that awful hill is still your beloved emperor Azir, whose journey of a 100 games takes him from 37.3% winrate to 52.8%. Uh. I'm sorry?
> [{quoted}](name=ZenonTheStoic,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=AHZlwKca,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2016-05-04T21:23:56.636+0000) > > Speaking of steepness of mastery curves, by the way, the king of that awful hill is still your beloved emperor Azir, whose journey of a 100 games takes him from 37.3% winrate to 52.8%. Uh. I'm sorry? Its true that Azir's kit is very high mastery but it rewards the user for understanding the depth of his kit and utilizing it properly in ways that weren't seen before in League of Legends. With the bug fixes given to him it helped make his kit become better and see more competitive play. However would a higher mastery curve be a problem with Taliyah? Well all players cut their teeth on champions when they first try to learn them. Some champions just cut the teeth deeper than others. Yet when a player becomes more proficient with a champion it becomes a swell feeling. That feeling of their hard work to understand the depths of a champion and their kit becomes rewarding for the player's knowledge and skillfulness. A good many of users here have noticed that Taliyah's Seismic Shove doesn't _feel_ right when it comes to casting it. I agree with them as it would be nicer to vector cast. True for a new player that starts using Viktor or Rumble, vector casting is hard to use at first. With perfect practice however comes mastery over what is difficult. From this mastery is that rewarding feel of using the champion skillfully. -- Just my 3 pebbles on this matter.
: Taliyah feedback thread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs_aWIUlpO4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJUXyvOPvpQ As those who watch will notice, Taliyah's jungling could use some help.
: The idea behind having worked ground's duration be shortened by CDR is that it means you can use the strong version of her Q in the same location sooner, effectively lowering its cooldown.
> [{quoted}](name=CrazyMLC,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=AhzcAqEz,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2016-05-04T19:57:30.795+0000) > > The idea behind having worked ground's duration be shortened by CDR is that it means you can use the strong version of her Q in the same location sooner, effectively lowering its cooldown. Well lets say you or I built 10% CDR on her from a single item like say {{item:3158}} with what I am talking about. The duration of your Worked Ground would last for 117 seconds from 99 seconds. The current version would mean that for building {{item:3158}} you only reduced its duration down to 162 seconds from 180 seconds. Which is a 45 second difference between the two. As the duration of Worked Ground currently scales down with CDR at a rate of 9 seconds per 5% CDR. 0% CDR = 180 Seconds 5% CDR = 171 Seconds 10% CDR = 162 Seconds 15% CDR = 153 Seconds 20% CDR = 144 seconds 25% CDR = 135 seconds 30% CDR = 126 seconds 35% CDR = 117 seconds 40% CDR = 108 seconds 45% CDR = 99 seconds To get the same 117 second duration through a scale down method you need to build 35% CDR which would easily take up two item slots and 5 points in your cunning tree OR a few of your rune slots if you want to preserve your item slots for other things.
: Taliyah feedback thread
--- I would like if her passive (Rock Surfing) worked with the Worked Ground effect from her Q (Threaded Volley). Such as: > Taliyah gains 20-40% movement speed by running near walls or on **worked ground**. This only occurs out of combat. > > Level 1 - 18: 20/22/23/24/26/27/28/29/30/31/32/33/34/35/37/38/39/40% This also wouldn't stack with the movement speed increase from Worked Ground while she is in combat. In combat: 10-20% movement speed increased while on Worked Ground which is equal to half the movement speed of her passive (Rock Surfing). Out of combat: 20-40% movement speed increased while on Worked Ground and her passive (Rock Surfing) is active. --- I've also felt like I was actively fighting my own Worked Ground effect from my Q (Threaded Volley). Perhaps have the duration of her Worked Ground effect **scale up** with CDR instead of **scaling down**. So instead of 180 seconds (0% CDR) to 99 seconds (45% CDR), reverse it. So it starts off as 99 seconds (0% CDR) but it goes up to 180 seconds (45% CDR). --- Next up I feel like the vertical cast length of her E (Unraveled Earth) is too short and could be lengthened while not increasing the number of traps created by it. Also would it be possible to have her E do increased damage to neutral camps?
: Taliyah's W should be able to work on herself
Oh yes please. That would actually be a really cool if she could do that.
: This is why this type of buff would be healthy for Taliyah. Giving her passive more strength will make her more dependent on it for mobility and give her a huge advantage, but at the same time enemies wouldn't be helpless against it because there are plenty of ways to stop it.
> [{quoted}](name=753,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=wRGGXyqE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-05-04T17:13:04.698+0000) > > This is why this type of buff would be healthy for Taliyah. Giving her passive more strength will make her more dependent on it for mobility and give her a huge advantage, but at the same time enemies wouldn't be helpless against it because there are plenty of ways to stop it. Exactly. As Its really easy right now to fill, tower to tower, the worked ground effect. It would also be useful for getting back to lane as you could set up specific spots like within your base to keep the downtime to a minimum on her passive. > [{quoted}](name=DrShoking,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=wRGGXyqE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-05-04T17:44:44.874+0000) > > she gains half of the passive move speed on worked ground And her passive would be _activated_ on Worked Ground if she is also out of combat. In combat or on casting any ability she gains half of it as she currently does until 5 seconds tick by. So a level 1 Taliyah with her Q would have her 20% movespeed on Worked Ground. If she activates her Q, she hops off her board and fires her one rock but gains the benefit of half her passive movespeed (10%) and after 5 seconds of being out of combat her passive becomes _activated_ and she regains her passive movespeed (20%).
: Comprehensive Feedback on Taliyah
@ A very bad leona: I know exactly what you mean. Even today I had to stop myself from hitting her W in order to E. @ Soujiro24: Yeah. Her E-W combo is really good for damage. I personally dislike the shortness though as her kit feels _unsafe_ like if you posistion yourself to do this combo there is a good chance you might get jumped on. @CrazyMLC: Yeah her E can do a really good chunk of damage. Also yeah the Q from my experience is more of a 1-point wonder ability at best. Any more than 1 point and it more akin to a _noob trap_ ability. @ TaoS: Probably a lot of champions do. It feels almost like a muscle memory combo for a fighting game. --- Today I decided to find out how much CDR will allow you to reduce the Worked Ground. My results turned up the following; 0% CDR = 180 Seconds 5% CDR = 171 Seconds 10% CDR = 162 Seconds 15% CDR = 153 Seconds 20% CDR = 144 seconds 25% CDR = 135 seconds 30% CDR = 126 seconds 35% CDR = 117 seconds 40% CDR = 108 seconds 45% CDR = 99 seconds As you can see its duration is reduced by 9 seconds per every 5% CDR; 81 seconds shaved in total. Now that is all good but personally? I would like if they reversed the order. That way it makes jungle Taliyah not as awful. As small camps have a respawn timer of 100 seconds and Taliyah's Worked Ground effect would have a duration of 99 seconds. As currently she is described by some people I was watching as "Her jungle is dicey at best". While I am talking about her **Q (Threaded Volley)** and the Worked Ground from it: What if Worked Ground triggered her passive? Like: > Taliyah gains 20-40 % movement speed by running near walls or in **worked ground**. Only occurs out of combat. > > Level 1 - 18: 20/22/23/24/26/27/28/29/30/31/32/33/34/35/37/38/39/40% AND while in combat she would gain half of her passive's movespeed (10-20%) from Worked Ground as normal.
: Taliyah Passive's Potential
What if, and just hear me out here, Taliyah gained the benefits of her passive on Worked Ground? Worked Ground is created by her Q.
: Comprehensive Feedback on Taliyah
She definitely needs quality of life changes to her kit at the very least to help her out. it doesn't even have to be damage based QoL changes but it needs to help her not feel counterproductive at times.
: QOL for Taliyah
Yeah they are a bit hard to see. Apparently if you lower your graphics settings they become much easier to see. Which is frankly lunacy in my opinion to do that just position yourself better.
: Thoughts and ideas for Taliya
I concur about her current passive being placed on her ultimate. From the people I talked to and seen streaming her on Twitch, the only nice about it early game is that it gets you back to lane quicker. Also about her Q and E.
Rioter Comments
: Looks like shes a toplane mage. Shes very good at zoning obviously so shes great against melee which is what toplane mostly is. I tried her jungle and it went really really bad. Cooldowns are way too long at the beginning of the game so she felt really weak. Mid seemed ok but because the lane is so small you will fill it with worked ground in no time. Think top is where she will be best at.
> [{quoted}](name=Soujiro24,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=IlTxwwst,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-04T02:05:06.168+0000) > > Looks like shes a toplane mage. Shes very good at zoning obviously so shes great against melee which is what toplane mostly is. I tried her jungle and it went really really bad. Cooldowns are way too long at the beginning of the game so she felt really weak. Mid seemed ok but because the lane is so small you will fill it with worked ground in no time. Think top is where she will be best at. Suppose so. Haven't tried her top yet. So lets see. Jungle (no). Support (no). Mid (Okay). Top (?)
: She is so squishy and with the Marksmen items one CC and you are at 20% or dead. She needs items to do anything meaningful and as support you are always behind.
> [{quoted}](name=LadyVash,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=IlTxwwst,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-05-04T00:19:42.883+0000) > > She is so squishy and with the Marksmen items one CC and you are at 20% or dead. She needs items to do anything meaningful and as support you are always behind. Yeah I noticed she is quiet squishy as well.
: Regarding Taliyah's Q and Worked Ground
I concur 100% as well. Her Q is the weakest part of her kit. It doesn't feel rewarding.
: Taliyah Feedback/First Impression
Yeah you hit the nail on the head. As its what we other beta testers have noticed as well when testing Taliyah.
: Taliyah Support is NOT a thing.
So not even support is good role of her? I have tried her midlane and she is half-decent at it. She can't jungle well I can tell you that.
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