: > [{quoted}](name=HarleyJinx,realm=PBE,application-id=cMKtzQHY,discussion-id=iUaguNEb,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-09-21T04:18:26.852+0000) > > I really love the skin as a whole (even though I am dreaming of a red Janna skil for so long) but I feel that currently more of a 975 skin than a 1350 one. Since it is closer to Popstar Ahri or Dragonslayer Braum than to the Project skins for example. > > But if you made her E a little more special it would be closer to 1350 I think. Imo there are some options of making the shield "pop off" without it losing clarity. Especially since its her signature spell. > > Edit: Also could we **please please please** get Chromas for Janna with a red and maybe black Chroma in it? Frostqueen Janna is a fairly popular skin and would look astonishing with other colors. I also would get it in a heartbeat on all of my accounts > > Edit2: Also does her passive look differently to her normal skins? Thanks for the feedback! And yup, her Tailwind passive is new for this skin!
Thanks a lot for your reply! Sooo... Is there any chance for a Janna chroma? Maybe even soon? ._.
: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Star Guardian Janna!
I really love the skin as a whole (even though I am dreaming of a red Janna skil for so long) but I feel that currently more of a 975 skin than a 1350 one. Since it is closer to Popstar Ahri or Dragonslayer Braum than to the Project skins for example. But if you made her E a little more special it would be closer to 1350 I think. Imo there are some options of making the shield "pop off" without it losing clarity. Especially since its her signature spell. Edit: Also could we **please please please** get Chromas for Janna with a red and maybe black Chroma in it? Frostqueen Janna is a fairly popular skin and would look astonishing with other colors. I also would get it in a heartbeat on all of my accounts Edit2: Also does her passive look differently to her normal skins?
: Then we should also completely rework Nasus to only get stacks if he attacks an enemy champion. And we should rework most 'siege' mages since they can just AFK farm from outside your range. And we should rework most carry junglers, since they just farm the jungle until they can sense a kill. Of course laning against Soraka is difficult as a utility support; the entire point of utility supports is protecting your ADC, not fighting the other team. They're going to have less damage than a more offensive support, meaning they can't chew through Soraka's heals easily enough. If we're going to make it so that Sona/Janna/Nami can more easily fight Soraka, then she's going to fold like a house of cards the instant an engage support shows up in lane.
> Then we should also completely rework Nasus to only get stacks if he attacks an enemy champion. Bad example. Nasus has to go melee to get stacks and is completely exposed this way. > And we should rework most 'siege' mages since they can just AFK farm from outside your range. Then they push with their spells. You can freeze the wave and engage when they go for farm or just wait for your jungler to do so. >And we should rework most carry junglers, since they just farm the jungle until they can sense a kill You can counterjungle them. And they have to interact with you sooner or laner. You also dont have to **lane** vs them. And this is one of the biggest complaints about Soraka. > Of course laning against Soraka is difficult as a utility support; the entire point of utility supports is protecting your ADC, not fighting the other team. If you are silver this is true. A utilty support can be as aggressive as any other support and usually also has the tools and damage for it. Just because the support has utility doesnt mean he has to stand behind his ADC and be afk (hello, Soraka). > They're going to have less damage than a more offensive support, meaning they can't chew through Soraka's heals easily enough. As I already said, most of utility supports have decent damage attached to them, just usually over time. > If we're going to make it so that Sona/Janna/Nami can more easily fight Soraka, then she's going to fold like a house of cards the instant an engage support shows up in lane. 1. I have no problem if Soraka actually interacts with me and wins. Hell, that ok with me. But if she just lets her AD do the job while not showing up ever and wins lane with this - thats sad and is not supposed to happen in a healthy game. 2. Even all in supports struggle vs Soraka if she is anything close to decent. The only one that can rather easily win is BC, because he pulls the AD out of her range to heal. All the others usually cant do a lot to pressure her. Ignite helps a little, but not a whole lot. If you want to play PvE you might as well switch to WoW or botgames. I undestand that you want your main as broken, unhealthy and frustrating to play against as possible, but truth is - others dont. Personally, I just want pre-rework Soraka back.
: I know we've talked about this before, but... I completely agree that the Playing Against satisfaction case is just as important as the Playing As satisfaction case. A champion that is balanced, but is immensely annoying to deal with, just frustrates everyone; for example, all of the Zed mains who have to deal with their champion being nerfed when he's already at a 50%ish winrate, and being unable to play him due to his high ban rate. It's annoying that they have to deal with that. And it's also annoying to deal with Zed in the first place; a lot of that ban rate is because people think he's stronger than he is (most assassins are like that), but it's also because he's immensely frustrating to play against (manaless poke does that to you.) But, as someone who likes to play enchanter supports, I tend to get irritated when this argument shows up. There are plenty of champions who's 'Playing Against' case is equally or just as annoying as the healer supports...but they're not getting completely reworked because people find them irritating to play against. It's cool how Fizz's entire gimmick is 'annoy the hell out of your opponent' apparently. But Soraka dares to have a decent heal? Now that's not fun. We need to attach health costs to it, make it require landing an entirely separate ability to do anything, and remove her other sustain support skill in favor of something entirely unrelated.
I main utility supports since ever. And Soraka is just cancerous to play against and I actually take a team with Fizz and Zed over a single Soraka. Why? Because Soraka doesnt need to interact. At all. Laning against Soraka is impossible as a utility support if she is anything close to decent. And even engage supports are not as easy as it might be. Sure, you might say that Grievious wounds are a thing, but also is laning. And laning against a half decent Soraka is just tilting and I would rather not play the game at all. Champions, no matter what kind, need to be interactive to do their job properly. So if you want to heal your ass off, please have the decency to actually interact with me and land your skillshots. You want to stay at your tower and still be just as usefull as me? Well, thats not fair at all, sorry.
: But to be completely honest, at this point I dont know what can be done to her kit than outright buffs to make her a justified pick. Maybe extra armor and mr for her and allies on w, and a bit more base or scaling damage on her q. That would help her role in poking and buffing up her teammates. If that's not gonna happen then her kit will need a bigger rework than this experimental destruction we have right here.
You could add "combos". Make the power chords different. For instance a power chord created by 3 Qs deals more damage. 3 Ws will empower the damage debuff, 3 Es the slow. Mixing in spells adds a small benefit from the spells that were used to create the power chords. So power chords without a Q that was used to creat it wont deal damage, but will have greater utility. Power chord that comes from QWE will deal a little damage, aply 20% of current W power chord debuff and the current slow from E. Power chord from a WEW will add another 10% to the damage debuff and slow by 10%. EQE will deal some damage and slow more than the current E. For this to work she will need way lower CDs in order to stack chords properly, but could also have reduced power on the spells since her power chords would be really powerful. You could also make using ult empower the auras Sona makes in the next 10 seconds by 50% (or any balanced number).
: I'm in D4 and I main AD/support. I was generalizing a bit when I said she's oppressive in lane. I agree that her strongest levels are 1-2. I just think it's too easy to force low counterplay trades and force the enemy lane into passivity. As a good Sona player I'm sure you know how easy it is to win an early trade and keep pressure on the enemy while sustaining with W.
Well, I do know how easy it is to win lanes but its mostly due to people having no clue of the match up more than from Sona being too strong. The only thing you need to do against Sona unless you are Soraka is just being aggressive. She comes forward to poke? Poke her back with your ADC. Sona is as squishy as it gets and every bit of damage sits. Why? Because her W does not offer any meaningful sustain. The heal is worthless unless you **really** need to heal, like in all ins by enemies, when low and wanting to farm a bit more. Otherwise you are better off with the mana instead of the 40 hp from the heal. As a Janna main Sona is supposed to be one of my biggest counters, but I rarely have a lot of issues with her unless her ADC is in my face as well in which case its even easier to farm them with help of ganks.
: But other than that ... please, make Sona viable ;-; I want to pick her in ranked and not fear being useless ;-;
Thats pretty much how I feel. I often times want to play Sona, but then I remember that its ranked and I want to win and just pick Nami instead.
: I personally really like the aura changes because it forces Sona to play more of a support role rather than her current state. Currently, she can be extremely oppressive in lane with her ADC only being there to clear out minions. Smaller auras will force her to consider where her allies are and how to position herself instead of just focusing on poking. The buff to her E works very well with this because the selfish movement speed means she can always position herself where she needs to be, while in most cases her ADC cannot outrun her. The buff to the E is also a little dangerous to her counterplay though, because it means she'll be able to poke hard and escape without any real consequences. I feel like moving some of the power on her Q active to her Q aura would fit very well with this change because it would increase the synergy between Sona and her ADC. It would also make her a LOT less frustrating to play against, because it is a lot easier to accept that an ADC with an empowered basic as well Sona's Q active brought you to half health instantly, rather than the current state where just the Q active does so. tl;dr: more powerful auras would fit really well with the nerf to their size because it would encourage good synergy with her ADC rather annihilating her enemies all by herself.
Sona has plenty of counterplay. Instead of being afraid of her 1v2 you, just fight back. Even Janna can win lane if she and her ADC hit the Sona every time she comes to poke. Sona is a lane bully, thats what she does. We dont need more supports with lackluster laning phase. We have plenty of those.
: Wall of text incoming! These changes are just what Sona needs. Even since her rework, she has felt outdated compared to other playmaking supports (see Thresh, Morg) and flat out weaker than "enabling" supports (Janna, Soraka). As a bot laner, Sona is boring to play as or against. When she is ahead, she is incredibly oppressive- her Q+AA poke is one of the most efficient trading tools in the game. It's super frustrating to be outranged and outdamaged by a Sona who can force trades with low counterplay, while generously sustaining herself and her marksman. When behind, Sona is incredibly underwhelming. Her damage is almost negligible, and it doesn't really feel like you do anything except press QWE and R if you have flash. While I do agree she has a lot of hidden power in her aura buffs, you don't feel impactful at all. There is almost never a reason to pick Sona- things like Janna are better at disengaging or enabling teammates, while champs like Bard do everything Sona does but better- with a much more interactive kit. Now, to actually address the current changes- The E change is great, and badly needed. Her current E is incredibly lackluster, it offers negligible MS and has minimal uses in terms of playmaking. It's only useful for when you're barely out of range and need to tag someone with your E power chord, or using the aura for warding/roaming. As for the W changes, I would rather see a big shield (maybe adding some scaling) and a small heal. This would make the ability feel more impactful, and more useful outside of lane. I also think her W power chord feels weak. It does have a lot of hidden power with the damage reduction, but it just feels less impactful than Q or E power chord. It's also hard to manage your power chords in extended teamfights and it's usually better to use Q or E. Not sure if this is even possible to code but I've always thought it would be cool if Sona's power chord on W could be used on an ally for a bonus heal or some kind of buff. And finally, her Q. Now, I know I complained earlier about Sona having low counterplay in lane but this change makes her feel even more useless than before. If you plan on trading early, forget about it. The Q CD is so long and it takes forever to build up a power chord. The lower cooldown lategame is super spammy and actually quite strong (Lichbane Sona incoming!) but overall this change doesn't do much for Sona. A change I would rather see is Q from a low interaction, low counterplay spam tool to a skillshot. I have had a change for this in mind for quite a while. Simply put, Sona's Q can never be meaningfully buffed because it has no counterplay. I think it should be similar to Nami W, but as a skillshot. Hit Q on someone and it bounces to an enemy nearby. Also, I think her passive should be more interactive. Power Chords should have power, not minor on hit effects. One last idea here! Instead of building stacks upon using abilities, it should build upon hitting your Q. This way, she has some counterplay to her poke in lane and you can also buff her Q + power chords to make her feel more impactful. If anyone reads this far, i'm impressed. Thanks for humouring me :)
I agree with a lot of your statements, but also disagree for quite a lot of those. Firstly, no disrespect intended, but what rank are you? I am asking, because I have the feeling that some of your statements dont take higher level of play in account. > As a bot laner, Sona is boring to play as or against. I would argue that Sona is one of the more fun supports to play. She is actually fairly engaging and needs you to pay attention to a lot of different things at once. But I guess its more of a preference thing. One could also argue, that we need to have champions like Sona, since different people need different things to play in this game. > It's super frustrating to be outranged and outdamaged by a Sona who can force trades with low counterplay, while generously sustaining herself and her marksman. Sona has a lot of counterplay unless you let her do Sona thins lvl 1. And even then, Sona is probably the only champion that can be farmed botlane with ganks (even more than Soraka). Sonas lane sustain is non existant. You even said it yourself - Tarics Q is better than Sonas W. So is Ali heal and he isnt even inteded to be a healer in the first place. Sona is terrible at sustaining in lane. You are usually way better off using health pots than Sonas W, because not only is the heal terrible, it also eats a good chunk of your mana. Its only of some use early if you are fighting and as a Sona lane you usually do not want to fight. That being said, her W is really powerful in the mid-lategame when you have some AP to back it up. > also think her W power chord feels weak. It does have a lot of hidden power with the damage reduction, but it just feels less impactful than Q or E power chord It might _feel_ weak, but I would argue that its actually her strongest power chord. Getting that damage reduction off in a trade botlane usually means the different between winning and losing the fight. Later on, being able to have a mini-exhaust on demand is really powerful and also can decide wether your ADC lives or dies. > It's also hard to manage your power chords in extended teamfights and it's usually better to use Q or E. Its usually better to use W or E, unless you need the damage really badly. > I've always thought it would be cool if Sona's power chord on W could be used on an ally for a bonus heal or some kind of buff It would actually nerf Sona quite a lot. Also, her W power chord is iconic and I (and surely many more) would not want to lose it. > A change I would rather see is Q from a low interaction, low counterplay spam tool to a skillshot. I have had a change for this in mind for quite a while. That would probably also ruin her. Sona is intended as an easy to pick up support. She is easy to learn and hard to master and thats fine the way it is. Her Q isnt as easy to play with as you make it out to be. You need to be in safe range not to get traded back or engaged on, you need to hit it properly without pushing the wave (know the distance). Sonas Q in lane can ruin it as much as it can win it. Making it a skillshot is probably just as bad of an idea as making Jannas W or Karma tether skillshots. I also had a few suggestions concerning Sona, you can check them out [here](http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/u4n6AaQR-experimental-sona-changes-feedback-wanted?comment=0026) if you are interested (at the bottom after the reactional wall of text). As I already said, I by no means wanted to offend you and just wanted to give some insight from my point of view (ex Sona main, currently D3)
: EXPERIMENTAL Sona changes. Feedback wanted
As a dia support main that focuses on laning these changes worry me a lot. I used to main Sona and still play her (less than before though, because since her kit changes she is mostly a champ for fun, not for wins). Overall I have a fair share of games on old Sona and on new one. Also I do think that atm Sona is a somewhat worse version of Nami, but just a way easier one. Both of them are lane bullies, but Nami provides more utility and heal even without having an ultimate. So why exactly pick Sona one may ask? Because 1) Sona is fun to play, at least to me. And I am sure that there are a lot of people playing her for that reason. 2) She allows you to win your lane level 1-2. 3) She has a lot of lane pressure on scaling ADCs and passive supports. 4) She has a game changing ultimate 5) The power chords are powerful, even though people might not notice it Sounds great, but what are the cons? 1. She is squishy and easily abused by hard engage and/or ganks 2. Not much impact on game except for ult 3. W is pretty much useless as a heal ability and as a shielding ability in the early levels and until you have some items. It costs too much mana for the numbers it offers (in lane again) 4. E is actually not _as_ bad as people make it out to be. Its ok. Its power chord is great as well, even though some champ get 3 of those for 1 ability (hey, Nami), but its still rather meh. 1. I really dont think that she has issues with her Q. Increasing the CD early on, especially for 4 seconds is quite a ton, especially for a champion that excels at early level bullying and doesnt struggle with its CD later on at all (you usually get CDR items and the Q damage later on isnt really that important). If you are going to reduce her laning power (and lets be honest, higher CD early on damages her laning phase a lot), you will need to give her something else she can lane with since her W is lackluster in lane. 2. Her W is bad early on. Like really, really bad. It is probably the worst healing ability of the game early. Yes, it scales really well, but when laning I usually rather have my ADC use pots than heal him with W. W is only somewhat usefull in fights, but early on Sona doesnt really want to fight. 3. Her E in lane doesnt really help usually so I am happy to see the buffs. It surely will give more safety to her and address the "Sona = free kills for gankers" issue. But still, Sona is left with pretty much 1.5 abilities on lane up to lvl 6. If her Q gets this treatment it will be 0.5 ability from Q and 0.5 from E. 4. I guess I repeated myself quite often, but this is something really important to me (and probably to other lane centric supports out there). 4 seconds lvl 1 dont look like much, but it will ruin most of Sona favored match ups. Lane against Janna is usually quite easy. With 4 seconds more on Q Janna will be able to shield every single 1 negating Sonas early strengh. Same goes for Nami. Right now Sona has the edge in lane with more frequent damage, 4 seconds longer make this match up Nami favored all of the sudden. Anyone who plays Sona wouldnt argue about Q feeling useless or not frequent enough later on, a lot of people will tell you that W is lackluster until mid-lategame. If I could suggest anything, I would reduce the shielding value from W and make the heal bigger. You also could add a buff to her then small shield. You also could add "combos". Make the power chords different. For instance a power chord created by 3 Qs deals more damage. 3 Ws will empower the damage debuff, 3 Es the slow. Mixing in spells adds a small benefit from the spells that were used to create the power chords. So power chords without a Q that was used to creat it wont deal damage, but will have greater utility. Power chord that comes from QWE will deal a little damage, aply 20% of current W power chord debuff and the current slow from E. Power chord from a WEW will add another 10% to the damage debuff and slow by 10%. EQE will deal some damage and slow more than the current E. You could also make using ult empower the auras Sona makes in the next 10 seconds by 50% (or any balanced number). There are a lot of possibilities to change Sona and make her more interactive without gutting her laning phase. Thanks for reading. Edit: Also the range reduction on auras is quite harsh. Atm its already hard enough to "tag" efficiently, with an "aura" this small it will be even worse. Standing on top of your carry is terrible both for lane and for teamfights since both of you can be hit with AOE spells and hard CC and you wont even be able to use Mikaels in that case.
: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: The Season 1 Fnatic Skin Set!
Could Janna not have the logo on top of her staff? It really looks over the top and doesnt match to the awesome champ. I mean, J4s lance doesnt have the logo either. Put it on her shirt and the skin will look 10000X better Edit: Why cant she have a cup as well? Riot, please, Janna isnt the type of champ to run around with a huge logo :<
: Skins splash small update coming to PBE
What about all the Nid splashes? They are more than old and ugly tbh + dont match with the reworked models at all

HarleyJinx

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