: Mana changes coming to PBE today
All these idiotic changes will accomplish is force every single mage to get Archangels Staff instead of the other two items. So much for item diversity?????
: Mana changes coming to PBE today
These changes are so beyond stupid it boggles the mind. "We’ve seen mages solve a lot of their mana issues with a single component for quite a while, and we don’t think that’s good for the mages, or the game at large." Why? Meanwhile lategame ADCs out damage and out burst mages with no mana cost auto attacks? Meanwhile the multitude of resourceless champions exist? Why the fuck shouldnt mages have their mana costs solved by one item?
: Mana changes coming to PBE today
So ADCs are currently broken and have too much of a game impact, better nerf mages? Riot has truly lost their minds and has no clue what they're doing.
: > Banshees just has a too low CD late game. 8 sec is crazy. Go up to 50-15 sec CD. Also more CDR added? What is this? Will every item in the future have 10% CDR? I can see the 10% making sense for casters but why do you always push everyone to 40% CDR in this game now? Not even a choice to get CDR becaus it is everywhere. It has strictly the same stats as Abyssal Scepter did, whose stats it is replacing. Speaking more toward CDR itemization for tanks, I didn't think it was right that Spirit Visage be the HP/MR item to go for when you wanted CDR (because items should feel good for their unique Passives/Actives), so all the HP/MR items now also have CDR to eliminate the need to choose between them for that _particular_ reason. Edits because I instinctively just clicked save after the last paragraphs: > Cinderhulk/Sunfire. With the +0.5 MR per lvl these items will already get nerfed. Nerfing Sunfire then also by ~30% dmg when you finish it (~lvl 9) is huge. Change it from 7+2lvl to 9+2lvl at least. Still a nerf early and mid game with a tiny buff late game. This is an intentional design choice aimed at making tanks have less damage threat overall, and especially less ambient, unnoticed threat. If it's too much a nerf, I'd rather compensate it elsewhere, but I think the item will still be a powerful option in this world. > Deadmans: Why do you need to lose stacks when AAing but you don't get any effect? Is that rly needed? Is it that strong after the changes? You lose stacks when AAing because we're trying to sharpen the effects of the items. In this case, DMP applies small, repeated damage that can add up over the course of fights, and this aims to make it specifically better at helping its users do what they bought it for, which is getting into range of targets. Tuning could possibly be off, but I do think the stack gain buff really does go understated here. > GA: Expensive for these stats but it will be a huge counter to every AD assassin. This is its intended use case, so that's good to hear. If it's only bought in extreme cases, that may be okay, as long as it's clear when those times are and it feels good (or at least reasonable) to pick up when those times occur. It's probably less good if it's a part of early core builds regularly. > Randuins seems to be nerfed and it was already not one of the good armor items. Most people tend to think this. I agree it does look underwhelming, though it's also cheaper than the other options, which I think is easy to undervalue. > So Warmogs, even when better, will probably stay useless. This is possible, but definitely don't want to run into a "League of Warmogs" game state post release either, so I'm trying to not oversolve on it for now. > Adaptive Helm: Strange and interesting, but I think ti will create problems. Swain, Singed, Kata, Karthus and many others will lose too much dmg through it, while it is a worse Abyssal normally. So it has a clear niche and is not an OPTION but either you won't get it or you have to get it based on the enemy and its strength. Making choices like these tend to be what make the item shop interesting, similar to how Randuin's should feel like an especially attractive pickup in games where they have a bunch of AAers. But there may be something I'm not considering on Adaptive Helm. > Why not use Aegis of the Legion for its build path? Armor/MR. Would make its path smoother and gives Aegis a second upgrade option. The original build path was actually Aegis+Cloth+Null, but this adds up to 55 Armor/MR, so when we reduced it to 40/40, we had to change the recipe. This has some good stuff to its build path as well, however. Since people that are used to going GA on tanks will instead be able to pick this up (since it shares its old build path). Also, several playtesters reported they stopped buying Locket and going for the selfish power of Stoneplate instead on a whim, and that they regretted it every time. So I didn't want this to compete heavily with Locket. Thanks for the feedback!
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=8g2H4vjy,comment-id=001e0001,timestamp=2017-04-07T03:03:18.745+0000) > Making choices like these tend to be what make the item shop interesting, similar to how Randuin's should feel like an especially attractive pickup in games where they have a bunch of AAers. But there may be something I'm not considering on Adaptive Helm. > I dont understand why you keep comparing Adaptive Helm to Randuins as if Adaptive isnt a million times better in its current iteration. The items are not even in the same league as mitigation items for their respective damage types. 15% attack speed reduction is utterly trivial in comparison to a straight up 15% damage reduction for some mages while still providing best in class mitigation against regular non spammy mages. The attack speed reduction on Randuins is barely felt and the item will likely not be worthwhile anymore without its crit reduction.
: I think your concern is pretty reasonable, though I don't think making it an active will be much better in this regard (unless it's just on a really long cooldown or something?) What makes the most sense to me is trying to get it into a spot where it doesn't feel like a good lane rush item in most cases, at least without there being a significant cost to the purchase in the early game. I tend to agree it's not there yet. I think the item can be good for the game overall, but probably not as a consistently viable lane rush.
1. If you intend to go forward with this direction the spell shield needs to go entirely. Spell shields are awful to play against, frustrating and unfun, particularly when frequently available (see Edge of Night, Old Banshee's). They also completely screw over combo mages and mages with long cooldowns. I certainly do not want to play in a game where every mage is running around with a spellshield every game, this is not good for the game and im sure the majority of players would agree. 2. Why exactly is Abyssal getting changed in the first place? Why are mages not allowed to have a MR item? because this change pretty much removes the only one they have. Meanwhile every other class of champions, tanks, ADs, supports get 3+?
: Midseason Durability Feedback
Here are some initial impressions on things that I think are extremely problematic and will 100% cause balance issues if they released to live as is. - Banshee's Veil - EXPERIMENTAL/Abyssal Scepter - EXPERIMENTAL Honestly this change is just flat out awful and quite mind boggling. Spell shields are extremely powerful but also EXTREMELY annoying/unfun to deal with from a gameplay perspective. Are you forgetting the huge problems Edge of Night caused when it was buffed, or the reasons you nerfed Banshee's Veil originally? Making spell shield so accessible by basically giving it to every AP champion would be both overpowered and would make gameplay very annoying/unfun. Spell shields totally screw over combo mages/mages with long cooldowns like Lux. Furthermore this is a flat out nerf across the board to AP champions who you are already hitting by providing mr/lvl to everyone and buffing MR itemization. Abyssal is a near mandatory item now in the current state of the game on most AP champions because of damage creep and removal of Athene's as a viable mage item. - Adaptive Helm You say this item is 'niche' buts its anything but. Its stats are too broad and inclusive and in its current state it will merely be a 100% buy for tanks/divers in place of Spirit Visage and Banshees Veil. This item simply does too much, remove the health regen and CDR and the item is in a better spot. Furthermore this item shows the clear bias you guys have had against magic damage in itemization over the last little while, massively buffing MR itemization while nerfing/failing to add additional physical damage mitigation items. This isnt even a wild conspiracy theory at this point since look back at all recent item changes shows massive buffs to MR items. You say Adaptive Helm is supposed to be akin to Randuins as a top tier mitigation item and then nerf Randuins so its no longer a top tier sustained damage migitation item by removing its crit damage reduction?


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