: Kajsa's Q is too uninteractive.
I just think they should make it so that there is a way to force it to prioritize champs, maybe have it focus most of its shots on any target that Kai has triggered her passive on, encouraging you to wait to use her Q until after you have used her passive, rather than just hitting the Q because you need the damage and hoping it hits who you want it to.
: Found the bronzie. An iteration of URF with no annoying bs like Kayn, Lee Sin, Sona, Soraka, Yasuo, Riven, Zoe, Rengar, Ekko, Morgana, Garen, Hecarim, Skarner, Jhin or Zed and you still find a reason to complain, enjoy the mode instead of crying because you cant play your favourite champions, smh.
rofl, the only bronzie here is you, since you clearly dont understand that just because YOU find a certain champ annoying doesnt mean others do as well.
: why tf are lethal tempo and aftershock disabled in the snow arurf??
Because riot hates fun and likes to watch us suffer. I havent played with a single person that has said they like this version of urf at all.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Dark Harvest is mostly meant for assassin junglers so removing it will only continue adc and bot lane meta just like in s7. Right now on pbe the game is much more balanced since assassins are back again and actually have some impact in the game using DH, its high risk and high reward at the same time because if you dont get enough stack it will be harder for you to impact on the game but if you are fed then you are rewarded with bonus damage. The rune was already nerfed in stacks so it is so much harder to get to 150 stacks and afk farming in jungle to get to 150 will take you forever, champions kill give much more stack so the rune is mostly for ganking to give better damage, and then to getting into that late game so you can still have some impact.
Riots intentions and they way something actually gets used are vastly different, Dark Harvest is worse in the jungle than it is in lane, you will get more souls from staying around cannon minions than you will from farming the jungle, in fact the best lane for dark harvest is bot lane because you have way more potential for souls than in any other lane. Champions like miss fortune, Jhin and Ez are very, very good with dark harvest, in fact these three are probably 3 of the BEST users of dark harvest, way better than any of the assassins other than maybe fizz, diana, and akali, all three of whom are probably better off with electrocute anyway. Again, not sure how many times I need to say this, I dont think its OP, I think it promotes a playstyle that is unfun for other players in the game, mainly the players on your own team.
: Good reasoning for them to slightly buff DH.
I agree, its too weak right now on most champs, but buffing it would make it too strong on the few that are still good with it.
: I'm having some issues with your logic. I fully understand your concern and reference to Feral Flare and Devourer, however, with the way Dark Harvest is right now, it doesn't present the same problems recreated by those former things. Let me explain. Those former things were problematic for all the reasons you have listed, but was also problematic because it created a situation where a stacked champion was SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than every other champion on the team (to the point of absurdity). You were HIGHLY incentivised to farm for 30 minutes. This was made even more problematic by the fact that most people will play what they perceive as "the most powerful" thing. Now enter DH. DH as it is currently laid out is not in anyway OP. As you have already pointed out, often Electrocute will out perform DH (in my personal testing, I found that they both resulted in similar bonus damage by the end of the game, with Electrocute giving MUCH better damage until I would reach 150 stacks -- approx 25 minutes into game as JG). As such, what is the incentive to take DH of Electrocute? -- Let's come back to that. With DH, you DON'T actually have the issues you have talked about (causing a player to not help the team and the team revolving around the DH player). Unlike similar mechanics, you don't actually need to kill the minion to get the stack. So,... as JG, you get more stacks by ganking and participating in a kill (regardless of if you even get an assist, much less a kill), you also get more stacks from canon minions than JG camps -- you are LITERALLY incentivised to help the team. As a laner taking DH, there is ZERO downside to participating in team fights as far as DH is concerned, and ONLY upsides. Unless the fight is taking place in the JG, you will still get stacks from canon minions (regardless of how they die) AND will also get stacks from Champion deaths (even if it is your own team!). Essentially, anti-team effect of previous similar mechanics are not a problem with DH -- there is no incentive or advantage to solo farm for 30 minutes to get stacks, nor is DH even remotely powerful enough to play "protect the DH player". In fact, there are PLENTY of options in runes are just as powerful, or more powerful -- which makes the DH player nothing special over any other equally skilled player with different runes. As to address your Feast or Famine concern: that was more of a concern before the current iteration of DH. The current iteration is getting more percentage damage from AP / AD than before, with stack effectiveness having been reduced. The effect is that you are not as far behind with reduced stacks, and not as far ahead with above average stacks. Getting behind to begin with is also mitigated quite a bit by the stack mechanic itself -- where you don't actually need to get the kill, just be in proximity. Basically, you can have crap CS, and still not get very behind the curve. You mentioned the idea of "luck" playing a role, but honestly, that isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be. Specifically, you mentioned things like being forced out of lane and missing a canon minion wave; how is that any different than good game play vs bad? A person with near perfect CS is very likely going to have a MUCH bigger advantage than someone with mediocre CS due to the advantage of gold and items. A good player is very aware of missing waves and CS, and will purposefully force lessor opponents to miss waves and CS (particularly canon waves), while at the same time mitigating their loss of the same. How is this not also a Feast or Famine mechanic? Should we do away with CS and just give everyone the same gold rate??? Of course not -- this is a key game skill; DH is no different. HOWEVER, due to how DH works, even someone VERY behind in stacks will still do at least 3/4th the damage as the average -- almost completely eliminating Feast or Famine. So, why take DH? Why have it at all when you can get more reliable and generally better burst from Electrocute? Well, first, some burst champions don't have reliable or easy to land 3 hit combo's. For some people though, they want to front load the damage on a single shot. Some champions are difficult to lock down, and being able to land a 3 shot combo is difficult to nigh impossible. For some champions, if you can't burst them down to the point that they try to flee (or simply killed) from the get go, they will either get away OR more often, turn around, CC you - breaking the combo, and then kill you or simply have eliminated your ability to get that additional burst damage. This becomes even more of a thing in team fights. Some burst champions have a difficult time being in any way useful in team fights. Sticking around in a team fight long enough to even get off their 3 combo burst (without somehow not being CC'd mid way) is difficult; with the damage front loaded to a single hit, they are able to be more useful. Lastly, I want to address the idea that DH allows for people to be deleted. Since the toning down of DH, I've not seen a person deleted that would not have already been deleted if Electrocute was being used (or even a completely different rune or no rune). The biggest problem was Duskblade combined with DH on high single shot burst poke champs like EZ and Jhin. Personally, I think Duskblade should be made Melee only (which would solve a lot of problems), but that is a different discussion.
Actually the nerfs to the rate at which you get stacks simply makes you more likely to 'famine' than you are to 'feast' the scaling is still garbage, half that of electrocute in fact so if you are relying on your items you are once again better off with electrocute. 1 soul is worth 1 damage, just as it has always been that hasnt changed. Being forced out of lane during a cannon wave does not mean you played poorly, you may have just won a fight against your enemy laner, you may have even killed them, but if you are left at 100 hp with no summoners, is it smart to stay and risk being killed by the JG? no of course not, you are forced to abandon your stacks in favor of not risking a death, you played well, you got a kill, you lived, but you are still going to lose out on stacks because a cannon wave happened to spawn when your fight ended. The only champs that dont have reliable or easy to use 3 hit combos are very, very few, amounting to basically, gangplank, jhin, zilean and a couple supports. A cannon wave is 8 souls, a single champ is 6, relying on team fights to gain souls is risky, I am garunteed a good amount of souls if I focus on nothing but split pushing/ slow pushing or even freezing a wave and letting the cannons come to me, especially after 20 minutes and even more so after 35 mins where you get a cannon every single wave. In a team fight you can get souls from your own team dying, but if your own team is dying then being in a position where you can pick up their soul probably means you are going to die too, and picking up the soul of a enemy that has died required you to be in a position to do so, if you are not a champion that can be in the middle of a fight than you are not likely going to be getting very many souls in a team fight, and if you are actually focused on winning the team fight, often these souls will dissapear before you have a reasonable chance to pick them up. There are a couple champions that ARE able to be in the middle of a fight and can also use DH, such as irelia or wukong, but these are again very few, and they also have a reliable 3 hit combo so they could use electrocute to reduce the risk of 'famine'
: Ok so let's make an hypothetical ranked game (cause all you guys think of when playing is being competitive and you are not considering the fun part of the game). When you had feral/devourer ,escluding autofilled/random junglers, you needed 15-17 minutes to be relevant,and with that statement i mean not ganking and permafarming.Why so much time?Well cause champs gave you the same amount of stacks as you got for monsters,so wasting time pathing to a lane and then pathing back to the jungle made you lose time thus stacks. With that said let's go over the basics of lol,league is a teambased game where a victory is a team effort where everyone did his job correctly(im escluding rarities such as smurfs),a jungler is someone who chooses to stat in a role that rewards helping the team over 1v1 mecanics,so his priority is to get the team ahead,shotcall,do objectives and lastly farm. Now dark harvest is an interesting keystone if you try to analyze it,it seems that is overpowered,focussed around you powerfarming,but it s not like this. Main junglers who knows what are they doing and how to proper jungle will get what i mean with my following words. Hypothetical ranked-> main jungler does red helped by botlane and gets +4 stacks on harvest,ganks level 2 ,gets 1 kill +8 stacks or gets sums down of botlane(so his botlane is ahead),rushes to wolves(+4),does blue(+4), ganks top/mid,if ganks goes well it s a 1 for 0 + 2 cannons(cause generally a level 3-4 ganks is a cannon wave) so + 16 stacks,gank goes bad it s a 1for 1 so you get 16 from 2 champs deaths and +8 from cannons.Let s stop here and analyze: If you gank bot level 2 and you get a kill you get 8 stacks-> 2 camps but the time invested since you are that low level is the one of 1 camp Gank top you get 16 stacks if gank goes well-> 4 camps (time invested of 1-2 camp) Goes bad 24 stacks -> 6 camps(time invested 1-2 camps) Now explain me how this is inferior to power farming when you get HEAVILY rewarded for helping your team. Now about it being 2 op,answer this question is perhaps 2 op 51% win ratio gragas one shotting you with his combo with 400 ap?(i am refering to panunu if you didnt get it) Lastly since these are boards and posts are made to share opinions,if you post something thinking that nothing will change your mind and you have the right to harass others with different opinions ,you are wrong casual folk. EDIT( have fun putting -1 on my post cause you prefer doing that over explaining why you disagree as you guys did with"yell at your dog" s statement ,)
First of all, you only get 2 stacks per jungle monster, and you only get 6 stacks for a champion death, so your math is completely wrong and it was NEVER 4 stacks for a jungle camp even before the nerfs it was ALWAYS 2 so im pretty sure you have either never used it, or dont pay attention enough to know what your talking about. Second of all, no one said it was OP and thats what 'yell at your dog' couldnt seem to understand either IM NOT CALLING IT OP, I VERY SPECIFICALLY SAID 'NOT BECAUSE ITS OP' Third, you get more souls from being in lane and being around cannon minions than you do in the JG, its actually worse on junglers than it is on laners Fourth hypothetical doesnt mean shit because every game is different, I could just as easily give a hypothetical where doing nothing but power farming the jg would get you more stacks Fifth dont talk like you are someone special 'Main junglers who know what they are doing will get what I mean' like you are trying to exclude any one else from being able to have input just because they arent a jungler
: Technically Ashe has the longest stun in the game :P
Ya but only if she is at least 2000 units away, in other words, she has to almost as far away to get more than a 2.5 seconds than a rank 1 nocturne ult. its also not an AoE stun
: I just realized there is another flaw in DH. Ill have to test it out. If there are two+ players with DH, who gets the souls? Does each cannon create one for each player in range who has DH? If two team mates have DH (say Top and Jungler) and they kill the enemy champ, who gets the soul stacks?
It creates one soul, but it will give it to everyone that has DH that gets near it, so if one player gets near it and picks it up, they will get the soul, but any other player that has DH will still be able to see it on the ground, go over and they can pick it up too.
: Then they should remove Nasus too because Nasus mains are addicted to stacks and you feel like it's 4v5
Nasus is balanced around his stacking mechanic, same with veigar, giving every single champion an ability that allows them to stack infinitely is not the same. If they try to re balance champions around this new rune it would mean they wouldnt be good enough with other runes, if they try to balance this rune around the most powerful users of this rune, then it wont be good on champions that could be good with it just not as good. On top of that Nasus (and Veigar) are not feast or famine characters, even with 0 stacks Nasus still has the most powerful slow in the game, as well as the ability to lower enemy MR and Armor for his team, letting him be useful even when behind in stacks. Veigar has literally the longest stun in the game at 2.5 seconds AND it can stun multiple targets, meaning even with no stacks he can still be useful. Also Veigars abilities have great scaling and do a large amount of damage even with just AP items and no stacks.
: you have a fundamental lack of understanding on why those comps exist. you're making the assumption that only 1 person is going to take harvest, or that harvest is in any way op enough that an entire team comp will focus around one person taking it. dark harvest being OP will create a thunderlord's s6 repeat where everyone takes it. If we're talking a protect the X meta then it's almost always gonna be 1 champ with tempo and at least one teammate with press the attack to max that champ's DPS, because a monster DPS source is way better to build a comp around then a burst damage champ. no, it does not make anyone obligated to protect that champion, because the people who will use it the best are the ones who don't need protection. Assassins and divers and maybe a few juggernauts like Darius or Illaoi -- but any team comp that focuses around enabling those types of champions with dark harvest will not be any different than it is now. i'm almost entirely sure that dark harvest is massively overblown because PBE is populated by majority low elo players who don't know how to play around stacking mechanics.
lol you clearly havent been paying attention to what ive been saying
: where i can see this stats, u are talking about?
Just personal experience, Ive got over 150 games on the pbe since the new runes have released, and since the nerfs the amount of stacks per game has gone down a lot, and it makes sense, on average 300ish stacks by 30 mins was normal, and you can look in other threads about DH to see thats what other people where getting before the nerfs as well. If you got 10 stacks per cannon wave before, and cannon waves come every 1.5 minutes until 20 mins where they start to come ever 1 minute, thats 10 stacks every 1.5 mins so 120 (12 waves that have a cannon) stacks by 20 mins, and then 220 stacks by 30 mins and this is of course if you get every single cannon wave, but also if no kills happen near you at all and you dont take any jungle monsters. Remember that you get stacks even if you dont get an assist or if one of your allies dies, so in bot lane if your sup is feeding, thats still 10 stacks you get. 300 stacks was pretty easy and normal to get in a 30 min game. Now cannon minions are worth 1 less, or a total of 2 less per cannon wave already thats a max of 96, already almost 40 less, and by 30 mins thats 176 stacks also champ deaths are only worth 6 now instead of 10 that means that if you where around 8 people that died before, and where able to pick up their souls, those 80 souls have become only 48 so 224 total by 30 mins IF you have been there for every single cannon wave. On top of that at 700 AP or 380 AD (a reasonable amount of an assassin that is meant to have DH) it would take 440 souls for DH to do the same damage as electrocute now. This is fine of course, since DH doesnt have a CD and you just have to pick up another soul, but to do even half the damage of electrocute you need at least 220 souls, which you are barely getting now, so you have to proc DH 3 times to finaly do more than electrocute at 30 mins. Before 30 mins and the earlier in the game you go, the worse DH is compared to electrocute, at the early mid game it takes 4-5 procs of DH to equal 1 electrocute, so you spend a ton of time trying to farm up stacks for barely any pay off.
: as long as he has other good runes, i dont see a problem.
Because riot doesnt like forcing any single play style on a champ, they like to keep it open to options so people can play how they want.
: I'm not sure if they should get rid of it. But in my opinion they should nerf the time window, when u can use it. 20 seconds early is fine. But why does this have a scaling for up to 5min? It is ALWAYS UP in the later stages. Electrocute needs 3 attacks, DH doesn't really need anything. Make it 20 seconds always, so you have something to keep in mind.
The problem is, is starting a team fight, or getting engaged on and having a team fight forced, when you have no stack ready means that you will be missing out on about 400-600 damage in the later game. You will be relying on your team getting a kill, AND being in a position to pick up that soul before you can deal your damage. On the other hand electrocute ONLY needs to hit someone 3 times, there almost no champs that dont have a combo that hits someone at least 3 times, so their damage is up and ready to go. Also you need at least 440 stacks of DH for it to do as much damage as electrocute (electrocute has a CD DH doesnt this is fair) but the average amount of stacks you get is only about 200 so DH on average does about half the damage of electrocute by end game, and as little as 1/4th in the early mid game, you have to proc it literally 4 times in order for it to equal electrocutes damage, and you have to proc it at least twice in the late game for it to equal out. The snowball potential is high with dark harvest but thats part of its problem like I said, its feast or feed, which is a bad gameplay mechanic, its why the got rid of feral flare, its why they got rid of devourer, and feast or feed is why the reworked fiora even though no one expected that rework. Yet they keep trying to bring it in and they should know by now, its bad for the game.
: Circle? Plz no (Personal opinions)
Ya I agree, I think the circles look lame compared to the slanted bars they had before.
: So I have been watching peoples Runes i my games and taking note of the damage they are doing at 10m, 15m and 30m. The New Dark Harvester is a Rune for good players. I have seen at 10 and 15 minutes Good players doing 2x the damage with DH compared to Electrocute champs. Iv also seen bad players do 1/2 the damage of Electrocute. At 30m if two champs are about the same in score they are doing about the same damage. Remember Electrocute has a CD while DH CD is based on kills and Minions/Monsters. Good players know how to profit on kills.
its not necessarily just good or bad players, its partially luck to, unless you are the JG. Maybe I had to back right as a cannon wave was showing up and missed 8 stacks, maybe this happened multiple times, now im quite far behind in stacks, once you fall behind with dark harvest its very hard to come back unless the rest of your team is doing well and you manage to be in several team fights and not died before getting souls. Like I said, its a feast or feed style rune.
: right. because dark harvest magically makes your other 4 teammates into supports for you even though absolutely nothing about the keystone supports that line of thought.
You ever heard of 'protect the vayne/ kog' team comps? Dark harvest makes every game into 'protect the dark harvest' Everyone just play around your dark harvest champ, your only job is to make sure they live so they can get their stacks and their dark harvest damage off. So yes, it does magically turn them into supports, because what they do during the game and in lane means nothing as long as they can keep the person with dark harvest alive and make the game lost long enough for them to get stacks.
: Scorch is not a Dot rune and is not even close to DFT. Scorch does 30-60 1s later (ie Delayed damage) Its one time damage so cant even be called a DOT. It also has as 20s CD. DFT was after any damage you did. If Scorch didnt have the 20s CD and the damage scaled off the damage you did then it would be a replacement. But its a secondary rune so has no scaling out side its own. You are right in that its not a Burst Rune but Domination does not have to be just Burst Rune path. (yes I know it says it in its description but that can be changed)
oh youre right, misread it. Domination isnt just burst, it also says that its about 'target access' yet the only 'target access' rune in the entire tree is predator,
: so kinda like an ADC.... they get to be the main character in a fight. I dont see the issue here. I have yet to be in a game where someone with Dark Harvest just completely wiped my team. I play with 5 man groups and randoms and we always strategize before we tackle someone one with dark harvest. They literally have to stack souls, you can use this to your advantage and hover over those souls to harass them. Just like any other stacking mechanic it has its weakness, and if you can't play around it find another strategy. If you want Dark Harvest to be nerfed so the souls disappear in a shorter amount of time that seems fair, maybe even make it that so if you ARE stacking the souls you are working overtime for the souls, for e.g. roaming even when it doesn't end in a kill for you stick around and claim the soul from the minion wave. It seems like it was made to reward aggressive play so maybe make it appear less common in minions.
lol no, not like an adc, an adc is not the main character of a fight, the adc has its role, just as the mage does and just as the tank does, but for a character that has dark harvest, everyone else is your support. Did you play when feral flare was a thing, or almost as bad, devourer? Its not fun for anyone else.
: even tho I think its more inline with the other runes now I lean to agreeing with you. Infinite stacking is really not a good idea for something everyone can take. We have Nas and Veigar who are built around it and thats almost a questionable thing. I like how it is different on how you get your burst damage but I dont think it should be infinite stacking.
I dont think its in line with other runes at all now, in fact its basically worthless compared to electrocute. With 700 AP or 400 bonus AD (pretty reasonable ap or ad values for assassins) Electrocute will do about 630 damage With the same AP/ AD using Dark Harvest, you will do about 200 damage, this would mean that in order to match electrocutes damage you would need 430 stacks, in an average game now you will get about 240.
: You mean Death Fire Touch? Where you do a DOT. YES YES YES this is what it should be. We need it for the champs that use DFT and lost it.
Deathfire touch isnt a burst rune that would belong in this category though, also there is a DoT rune in the sorcery tree, its just not a very high amount of damage (30-60) Which is about the same as DFT on live, however this new rune can only do it once every 20 seconds
: how dare there be things in the game that reward you for using them correctly
Its not because they 'reward you for using them correctly' they reward you for as Riot said, when they removed devourer and feral flare 'ignoring your team' and 'becoming the only star of the show' as well as 'encouraging a unfun playstyle for others on your team' being the one with feral flare, its a lot of fun to use, in fact its pretty much the only rune I have used, ive been using it on every champ I can think would be good with it just to see if it works, and let me tell you, killing people with litterally 1 Q from miss fortune, its fun as hell. Playing against that though? not fun. Playing with someone on your team that is doing that? Still not fun. When someone on your team is able to do this they spend their entire time trying to get stacks, and when they do finally have enough stacks you feel like an extra, just another body to take shots while they get to be the main character.
Rioter Comments
: I can see this rune working on {{champion:75}} , but with an already weak early game, he's at an even higher risk for losing his lane now. If you're planning on building tanky, grasp of the undying is a better choice for late game burst, with a heal attached. I honestly can't think of a single champion I'd take this new version on, over another rune. (If anyone has an example, I'll gladly admit being wrong.) I don't believe it needs to be NEARLY as strong as it was, and I do agree it needed a nerf, however, I don't believe it needed to be crippled though.
Especially since on average Grasp of the undying does more total damage throughout a game than dark harvest does now.
: loool, i hoped the nerve would not be so low... i think u just have problems, after an op-rune got a littel bit lower. ;)
"a little bit lower" the nerf actually amounts to about 80-100 stacks on average lost at the 30 minute mark, thats pretty significant, thats a whole 80-100 damage lost, no small nerf. On top of that the total damage dealt by the end of the game is now on average less than electocute, and even less than grasp of the undying. When your burst assassin based rune is doing less total damage during a game than the tank rune, you know there is a problem.
: this is right, but zilean and gp have perfek runes in the mage-tree. ;)
Actually dark harvest was a great rune on GP because his Parrrley would apply the Dark Harvest damage
: It needs a nerf for sure. 1 thing i suggest is lower the base damage then on each proc, lose a percentage of the stacks. im 4-0 using it as leo support. it should not be working at all but it is. it is the new thunderlords.
If it loses stacks when you use it then there would be no reason to use it over electrocute
: Wait, is this actually true? o_o It would be interesting to see if Junglers could go to mid lane to be near the cannon minion when it dies, then quickly roam top or bot to get another stack from another cannon minion, then go back to jungle, imagine the amount of stacks if done over and over!
Yes, when I play in the JG with dark harvest I do stop by the lanes if there is a cannon minion wave so that I can get the extra souls from it. However you actually will, in general, get more stacks by just playing a laner rather than a jungler. The best lane for it is bot lane because even if your supp is feeding, you get souls from your own allies dying so a feeding supp can actually snowball your dark harvest stacks. Something me and my buddy would do is instead of him backing as support, he would go get executed by dragon, I would grab the souls and then back.
: It's way too powerful at the moment. The damage it deals throughout the game is way too high, usually it adds up to around 6000-7000. It's really becoming a problem when ADC's start picking it (thunderlords early season) until they actually start looking at it.
Ya so far its OP as shit on Ez, MF and Jhin, all of whom I have used to kill people with a single hit, litterally 1 Q from ez or MF and litterally just the 4th shot from jhin will kill someone at 100% The problem with abilities like this is that if the numbers are too low, there is no point taking it compared to electrocute, if the numbers are too high then it is too easy to snowball. Even if the numbers are 'just right' there is always the potential to snowball a game out of control, or fall so far behind that it basically feels like you dont have a keystone.
: You dont have to actually 'farm' it. You just have to be near when the canons die
You are still farming stacks, just because you dont have to farm the minion in order to farm the stack does not mean it isnt getting farmed. Farm.
: Ya its way too strong when you get it farmed and dont fall behind, and its way to painful to be behind when you have it. Its feast or feed like old Fiora and it shouldnt be nerfed it should be completely removed from the game and replaced with something new for the same reason we dont have feral flare or devourer anymore.
Riot keeps trying to do these endless stacking damage things and they keep going horribly
: Dark Harvest
Ya its way too strong when you get it farmed and dont fall behind, and its way to painful to be behind when you have it. Its feast or feed like old Fiora and it shouldnt be nerfed it should be completely removed from the game and replaced with something new for the same reason we dont have feral flare or devourer anymore.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Except that Electrocute has a cooldown and can only happen once per fight, Dark harvest will happen every single time a champion dies, ally or enemy, which can let you snowball a fight out of control. Imagine, I start the fight with 457 damage, with an Miss Fortune Q, this will normally almost 1 hit a squishy, they die, I get a soul, I turn to a second target and also deal another extra 457 damage. Now in less than 5 seconds ive dealt a bonus 900 damage, in only 2 autos and a Q, now how does that compare to electrocute?
Also in a 45 minute game I got up to dealing 987 damage with just dark harvest.
: i don't see the problem With 250 bonus AD and 0 AP 300 stacks + 120 base + 37.5 = 457.5 Electrocute 220 + 125 = 445 I don't see much difference And please don't tell me that Dark harvest does everything in hit while electocute needs 3 because for casters is easy to hit 3 times. Take Talon Q AA W or R so close together And Dark Harvest needs to be farmed I think that maybe they could buff the AD ratio up from 15% while giving stacks only on kills and not if a minion/champion just die. So if i'm good to last hit it's ok i have good damage but it will be harder to get high stacks
Except that Electrocute has a cooldown and can only happen once per fight, Dark harvest will happen every single time a champion dies, ally or enemy, which can let you snowball a fight out of control. Imagine, I start the fight with 457 damage, with an Miss Fortune Q, this will normally almost 1 hit a squishy, they die, I get a soul, I turn to a second target and also deal another extra 457 damage. Now in less than 5 seconds ive dealt a bonus 900 damage, in only 2 autos and a Q, now how does that compare to electrocute?
: Dark Harvest bug
after more testing, sometimes he does sometimes he doesnt
Rioter Comments
: I've been using this keystone a lot. I think the main issue is you can snowball it too hard against weaker opponents. There should be diminishing returns after some point like Thresh's souls. Also I think that each soul should have scaling instead of just adding 1 damage per soul so tanks can't abuse it as easily.
: RIOT may I have your attention please. Dark Harvest keystone gonna ruin the game !
I think they only thing they really need to nerf is getting stacks from your own side, when your own cannon minions die, you shouldnt get stacks, and when your allies die you shouldnt get stacks. This would cut the amount of stacks that a laner would normally get in half, also it prevents the cheesing that me and my buddy did when we where playing bot. Him as support, in stead of backing, would execute himself to a JG camp to give me a free 10 stacks over and over. This is just silly, that game I literally 1 hit the enemy Vayne, and Viktor with a single MF Q.
Rioter Comments
: @Riot Xayah range should be toned down
Long range? the only adcs that have a lower ranger than her are Kog'maw (who doesnt count because he has the third highest with his W active) Lucian and Sivir. She has the same range as Quinn, and Jinx when she isnt using rockets so she doesnt really count either. Every other ADC has higher range than her.
: But the difference between a Mana/MR _tank_ item, and an AP/MR _mage_ item is that the Mana/MR item is designed with the sole intention of making champions tankier. It is not to make them do more damage, and as such the MR remains relatively low on such items. On live the highest MR "offense" item is Abyssal Scepter which has only 60 AP because of how much MR it has. You are actively choosing to nerf your damage in choosing to buy the item. When you take into consideration an item like Banshee's Veil which has always has a monstrous amount of MR (until now at least) it is functioning as a tank item. You're giving yourself so much added durability that most champions should have trouble killing you. Having Mana on an item with 70, or 80 MR is an invitation for those few champions with Mana scaling to come in and reap the benefits. I understand Ryze is sitting at an abysmal win rate right now, but I really don't think he deserves buffs. He needs _another_ rework that will _actually_ fix his issues. Step #1 towards that is removing his mana scaling on abilities completely, but making his passive increase his maximum mana exponentially (like I'm talking 600 AP = 200% extra Mana from all sources.) This would mean an AP build would increase his potential maximum AP to ~1500 with a Seraph's Embrace, and if he wanted to do massive amounts of damage he would have to shed the concept of being this super durable sustain mage. Every other champion has to choose between damage, or durability. Ryze should too.
Except his build right now IS extremely squishy (ROA, Seraphs, Void staff, Rabadons and Morellos) he DOES chose between being tanky and doing damage, hes not like he used to be where he could build Frozen Heart and still do damage. Building a MR + Mana item would not be a benefit to him at all it takes away too much from his damage.
: Oh and if you want to take into account the Seraphs Emrbace, having an extra 400 mana, would give him only 12 AP which would increase the damage of his abilities by 5.4, 2.4 and 3.6 so still significantly less than buying a banshees (especially once you consider he normally buys rabadons as well)
Lol i know im replying to my own comment again but we should probably also consider that he only has a 38% win rate and even people with over 200 games on him only get him up to a 47% win rate. He needs some buffs, and maybe that can come in the form of better itemization.
: Sure, accept with Banshees veil now giving MR and AP and Adaptive Helm reducing damage from mages that deal consistent damage from the same spell over and over (AKA Cass and Syndra like you mentioned) he isnt going to have any more or less trouble with those champions if he chose to build those than if he chose to build a MR + Mana item. Also his mana ratios on his abilities are quite a bit lower than they used to be, only 3% on his Q 1% on his W and 2% on his E where it used to be 4%, 2.5% and 2% (and even before that 6.5%, 4.5% and 3%) because of his current AP and Mana ratios he would actually get more damage by building the new banshees than by building the item i proposed. The new banshees would give him 31.5 damage on Q 14 on W and 21 on E while 400 mana would only give him 12,4, and 8 respectively. So it gives him barely any damage. Its certainly a more defensive choice, but banshees would still be a better option vs AP for him
Oh and if you want to take into account the Seraphs Emrbace, having an extra 400 mana, would give him only 12 AP which would increase the damage of his abilities by 5.4, 2.4 and 3.6 so still significantly less than buying a banshees (especially once you consider he normally buys rabadons as well)
: Because throughout all of Ryze's iterations the one constant theme is that the champions that beat him are long range, and function as a mage, or similarly to a mage. While yes you could argue that Jhin, and Varus fit that bill more often than not it's champions like Syndra, and Cassiopeia. Those who can throw out damage without putting themselves in immediate danger. You'll almost never find someone picking a teamfight oriented champion like Kennen into him, and assassins like Talon, or Zed are even rarer. By giving Ryze an item that gives him MR, and Mana you're giving him every stat he could ever need against his "counters," and that is a dangerous thing to do when he is already a champion balanced on a razor's edge.
Sure, accept with Banshees veil now giving MR and AP and Adaptive Helm reducing damage from mages that deal consistent damage from the same spell over and over (AKA Cass and Syndra like you mentioned) he isnt going to have any more or less trouble with those champions if he chose to build those than if he chose to build a MR + Mana item. Also his mana ratios on his abilities are quite a bit lower than they used to be, only 3% on his Q 1% on his W and 2% on his E where it used to be 4%, 2.5% and 2% (and even before that 6.5%, 4.5% and 3%) because of his current AP and Mana ratios he would actually get more damage by building the new banshees than by building the item i proposed. The new banshees would give him 31.5 damage on Q 14 on W and 21 on E while 400 mana would only give him 12,4, and 8 respectively. So it gives him barely any damage. Its certainly a more defensive choice, but banshees would still be a better option vs AP for him
: #You can't fool us you filthy Ryze main. No, but seriously Ryze is the reason we don't have any. Banshee's Veil used to build out of Catalyst, and gave Health, Mana, and Magic Resistance, but it was too strong on Ryze. They ended up taking the mana off of Banshee's Veil, and increasing the Health, but increased the mana every other tank item gave by a little. Similarly to Will of the Ancients, and Vladimir before the item was removed MR, and Mana on a single item is something that can never be "good" for 99% of the champions in the game without being "broken" on Ryze.
I actually main Kassadin and I want an MR item for my Kassadin mana build XP I dont see how a MR mana item would be any more broken on Ryze vs an ap champ than the Armor MR items are on him vs AD champs.
: Midseason Durability Feedback
Why are there no items that give magic resist and mana?
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Ferrous Dreemurr

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