: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Coven Lissandra
First of all, I want to say that the skin looks absolutely astonishing and I'm loving it all. That being said, one bug I found was that during the Self-Ult animation, her headdress clips through the back of the pillar. It doesn't blend in with the dark pillar because the headdress is white, so it stands out pretty clear. Still loving it though!
: You are freaking out about losing 36 mana per minute. That's one less cast every 2 minutes.
> [{quoted}](name=Sailor Mint,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=Yj1lE6To,comment-id=000800000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-04-18T03:52:43.320+0000) > > You are freaking out about losing 36 mana per minute. Lets use Xerath as an example. Live Lvl 18 = 1115 mana This change Lvl 18 = 833 mana _That is a 282 base mana difference. **It adds up**_ **EDIT:** I did the math. From every champion that has a change to their base mana pool, on average, they lose 335.16 mana at level 18. More than a sapphire crystal.
: Mana changes coming to PBE today
As someone that has played mid lane for almost 3 years, I'm going to break this down paragraph by paragraph and summarize the main issues here and put in my own two sense (cents?). > Doran’s ring is being reduced in power. This item has done a lot of things well for quite a while, and we are attempting to bring it inline with other starting items. This should also have the benefit of opening up a wider range of starting items for mages. The only reason that Doran's Ring is the best starting item for most mages and casters is because there are really only two that offer anything to mages to begin with. Dark Seal and Doran's Ring are the two main starter items. While Dark Seal is good for difficult lanes that you know you'll be harassed in, it offers nothing but flat mana otherwise. Doran's Ring gives the regeneration plus the bonus mana on minion kill. While you can take other items like a Sapphire Crystal, it only offers one stat, and isn't useful for lane. You could also say Doran's Shield is an option, but that's a defensive starting item. Doran's Ring is a neutral item, meaning that it offers no extreme defensive nor extreme offensive stats. The purpose of a starting item is to give you a small boost for the start of the game. I think changes to starting items are necessary (like adding more of them), but it doesn't make sense to change one item then change stats of 20+ champions. It's inefficient. > The result of these changes is that mages will get more spellcasts at low levels, but will remain at risk of OOM'ing themselves even after their first back, compared to live. We’ve seen mages solve a lot of their mana issues with a single component for quite a while, and we don’t think that’s good for the mages, or the game at large. So what I'm seeing here is that they want to make early fights possible, without the risk of running OOM too quickly. And they also want to make sure that mana is being seen as a resource that must be conserved, but there are flaws here. For one, the statement that mages are fixing their mana costs with one item is not true. If anyone has been following the meta right now, the most popular mages (Ryze, Anivia, Zilean) are taking the Tear->ROA->Archangel's and never running out of mana. If you can build a Tear, you do it. Otherwise, if you take one item alone (like Orianna and Syndra), its clear that it's only Tear that is strong. Champions that don't build a mana item first (Lissandra and Annie (Protobelt)) are out of luck here, and will be forced back into one of the 4 {{item:3027}} {{item:3003}} {{item:3285}} {{item:3030}} mana items that mages can actually build. (And lets be honest, when is the last time you saw someone build a GLP?) The purpose of the AP itemization changes was to make build paths in mages to be more diverse, correct? But it seems like these changes are forcing AP users to prioritize mana items only because their mana regen will be so shoddy that it wouldn't make sense not to. And anyone that builds Protobelt or another no mana AP item are screwed. > Mages should run out of mana if they’re casting constantly in long fights. Mages should pay clear costs when they use their spells to clear waves quickly and safely, especially if they’re not investing into items that specialize in mana. We want to increase conflict around map objectives that provide sustain (Blue Buff and Ocean Drake), where recently the cost for ceding those objectives to the enemy has been much lower. All of this is a yes and no. Mages should be low on mana if they are participating in extended fights, of course, but wave clear is what makes mages...mages. Mages should pay a cost for farming instead of fighting, but they shouldn't be punished for it either. There are other ways to get around safe farming vs. fighting, and taking away mana growth isn't the way to do it. You are also increasing the cost of mana items early, which is a double negative. If you don't get as much mana to farm, that means that you don't as much gold as you once could to by a mana item which is now more expensive. On top of this, mana pools are worse because once you hit 6 for most of these champions, your old mana pool would be higher than your new one at all levels above 6. For most champions on live, you run out of mana rather quickly, so it makes no sense to lower mana pools post-6. Blue Buff and Ocean Drake? If you can ever get the blue buff from you jungler, that would be great. And ocean drake is so negligible for 1, you have to get 2 to notice a difference, so it's point is null. > How do items that help your mana management feel? Are there specific components or completed items that still let you go infinite? Do mana hungry mages feel better about grabbing two mana items? 1.) Mana itemization needs to be increased. Period. That's it. It isn't good to only have 3-4 starting mana items, 3 of which you can't stack together effectively. 2.) Adjust Tear so that it has a balanced mechanic, not making it a must build. 3.) Depends, if it's something like Ryze or Anivia that gain a huge benefit from ROA/AA build, then yes. If it's someone like Lissandra who uses a lot of mana and must rely on her passive to be useful, then no, because building two mana items doesn't provide anything more useful than more mana, if you ignore the massive cost. Here is what I see. This is pushing an assassin meta if I've ever seen one. The Duskblade compensations combined with the armor nerfs are making it so that assassins can come back into the meta with the least resistance. By doing this though, it shuts down a lot of mages from being relevant in the game. Most assassins don't rely on mana (Akali, Zed, Katarina), and those that do have such low costs that it doesn't matter. ADC's are able to never run OOM but do equal/more damage than a mage ever could and have good waveclear (Stattik) How is that fair? Don't get me started on supports. Mana should be for mages, mana regen should be for supports. If you are really afraid of mages taking Spellthief's, then there is a larger problem there than mana regen. Supports should not be punished here when they get the least amount of gold in the game and rely so much on their mana regen to stay in the game. My conclusion? Not gucci
: Yeah mana costs are waaaaay too high.
> [{quoted}](name=Elysial,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=EIJ4nhwU,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-12T23:49:48.312+0000) > > Yeah mana costs are waaaaay too high. The issue that I've been seeing is that after the AP itemization changes, mages/mana users tend to run out of mana quickly unless they have mana resets (Swain/Malz/Xarath etc.), low mana costs, or build {{item:3070}}/{{item:3003}}. The only viable AP mana items in the game are {{item:3003}} {{item:3285}} {{item:3030}} {{item:3100}} {{item:3027}} {{item:3041}} . They also all have clear weaknesses that take away from a mages kit. (Mejais/ROA/Tear stacking, no mana reset, basic attack reliant, etc). So it would be nice to have another alternative AP mana item. Now onto LeBlanc: LeBlanc, in her current state, primarily goes {{item:3146}} into {{item:3285}}. Her new build may not be {{item:3146}} rush anymore, so it will push her into the 3 main mana items. {{item:3285}} {{item:3030}} {{item:3003}} are all okay items, but there are issues on all of them. Note that {{item:3285}} {{item:3030}} only gives 500 mana, while the old {{item:3165}} gave 400 mana plus the 20% max mana restore on kills/assists. This drastically reduces the amount of mana that users receive, and it is pushing them to grab _**Presence of Mind**_ to keep up their mana pool. {{item:3003}} is a good item on heavy casters and is one of the strongest AP mana items at the current moment. But for LeBlanc, who relies on snowballing and burst damage, doesn't receive the greatest benefit from the stacking mechanic. It would delay her core burst items and push her into later into the game, when everyone has build MR. No matter her build path then, she is forced into _**Presence of Mind**_ just to allow herself to stay in lane and keep pressure on the map. Right now, the AP itemization changes will keep the reverted LeBlanc weaker than pre-rework, but I might be wrong entirely. But nonetheless, she either needs mana changes regarding cost or regen, or (to fix other mana users) create a new mana item that is used for cheap utility.
Rioter Comments
: ~~If you all experience extreme ping spikes (>500ms), can you tell me which game mode you are in?~~ ~~Also, what is your main server that you play on?~~ We no longer need this information, thank you all.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot banfhammer,realm=PBE,application-id=A4D2003433C8FCD715185A7264A9CC6FDFAD7FEF,discussion-id=xOdB4IEv,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-11-08T00:18:34.905+0000) > > If you all experience extreme ping spikes (>500ms), can you tell me which game mode you are in? It seems to be 5v5 SR
: You need to be more selective in your pbe testers riot
What the PBE is experiencing is such a large influx of players that you will always see toxic and vulgar players. The best thing to do is report them, the system does indeed work. In about a month, the amount of toxic players will be drastically lower than it is now because everyone that wants a PBE account will have one and the toxic players will be weeded out. Right now we need to be patient with the system, report players for toxicity, and try to do what we joined the PBE to do, test the patches and help make the game better for everyone. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
: at least lvl 4 honor and gold I for a pbe account!
Having the PBE signups require Gold I status and Honor 4 aren't going to fix the salty/toxic player issue. There are really awful people that are Honor 4 and same goes for people above gold. The best thing you can do is report the people that are toxic, the system works on the PBE too. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
Rioter Comments
: Mana Flow Band Rune not working at all
Yeah, everyone is noticing this bug. It's getting rather annoying to deal with for champs that are extremely mana reliant ({{champion:13}} for example).
Rioter Comments
: Unsealed Spellbook is not a good keystone Compared To others
It's under the inspiration tree which means it's going to be used by more of a support mage. I agree that it is much weaker than any of the other runes, and it isn't taken often because other runes offer more (Damage, shielding, CDR, healing). I think giving it the healing/shielding buff would be extremely beneficial, but then again, it could become overpowered. It just needs something that would give it that extra _umph_ cause 25% summ CDR obviously isn't doing the job. I think all of the inspiration runes need something extra or a fix because they don't offer much other than light CDR. slows, or items. It's exhausting {{summoner:3}} .
: [For players that complain about new health bars and stuff...]
This is correct. The PBE is a chance for us to test things that we would like to see become real in the regular servers. It's a privilege, not a right, to do this. We all should be respectful when we bring up matters that the majority want to change. Instead of spamming _"THIS SUCKS WHY RITO DID YOU DO THIS??!"_ we should be saying _"The health bars don't give us the information we need correctly and doesn't look appealing. Maybe we should have a toggle option in the settings."_ I have been seeing people act very, very respectful and understanding to the PBE system, but I have also seen negativity as well. We need to act like testers.
: Connection Problems
Yeah I get this about every game now, either that or I get a bugsplat once the game starts. It's starting to get extremely annoying. We can't test anything until the game ends and we start a new one, also running the risk of getting punished. {{sticker:sg-janna}}
: > [{quoted}](name=FelixFurry,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=ru0Kfx1e,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-10-27T01:01:13.048+0000) > > Let me just bring this up since I've been seeing it everywhere. Rengar {{champion:107}} , a champ we all seem to have a love/hate relationship with, benefits from _Dark Harvest_ exceptionally well. As seen with more play rate because of his new skin, he can 100 to 0 people in .39 seconds at 5 minutes, as seen in many of my games and others. With _Dark Harvest_, the easy ability to collect souls, and Rengar's {{champion:107}} super snowballing kit, this is an example of how it can be abused. > > I don't know if I'm rambling nonsense, but from what I've seen, he is a high offender of the new runes. Anything similar? I had the misfortune of playing against a Rengar who was using Dark Harvest and he got fed, but it was more that my team fed him because they were bad and he was probably a diamond player I estimate. But yeah I think Dark Harvest is really strong on him too because of his burst and engage. It's kinda the same thing on any diver though like Vi, J4, or Nocturne. I didn't get around to trying it yet in PvP but against bots I could 100-0 a squishy bot with Nocturne ult + 1 autoattack (Dark Harvest + his passive + Duskblade) and I wouldn't expect it to be any less deadly against an actual player playing an ADC lol.
> [{quoted}](name=KhristophorosPBE,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=ru0Kfx1e,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-10-27T01:33:01.656+0000) > > I had the misfortune of playing against a Rengar who was using Dark Harvest and he got fed, but it was more that my team fed him because they were bad and he was probably a diamond player I estimate. > > But yeah I think Dark Harvest is really strong on him too because of his burst and engage. > > It's kinda the same thing on any diver though like Vi, J4, or Nocturne. I didn't get around to trying it yet in PvP but against bots I could 100-0 a squishy bot with Nocturne ult + 1 autoattack (Dark Harvest + his passive + Duskblade) and I wouldn't expect it to be any less deadly against an actual player playing an ADC lol. On top of his engage and his item build, there are other runes too that amplify damage after an engage, like the one in the **Domination** tree that acts like a Sheen {{item:3057}} . Everything just stacks and stacks so the damage becomes unreal.
: I'm concerned about champions with strong engage with some new runes.
Let me just bring this up since I've been seeing it everywhere. Rengar {{champion:107}} , a champ we all seem to have a love/hate relationship with, benefits from _Dark Harvest_ exceptionally well. As seen with more play rate because of his new skin, he can 100 to 0 people in .39 seconds at 5 minutes, as seen in many of my games and others. With _Dark Harvest_, the easy ability to collect souls, and Rengar's {{champion:107}} super snowballing kit, this is an example of how it can be abused. I don't know if I'm rambling nonsense, but from what I've seen, he is a high offender of the new runes. Anything similar?
: Can you add two simple options?
It would also be nice to have the mini-map have an option of 150% size. For visually impaired people, this would be a great benefit. It is already hard enough to clarify information on such a small corner of the screen.
: Arcane Comet..
You also have to consider that **_Arcane Comet _** has a smaller cooldown than **_Electrocute_** and can be proc'd more often. It also gets it's cooldown reduced when using abilities. One downside is that it lands wherever your ability applied damage. Both runes have their benefits and downsides, but maybe a small tweak can help with quality of life issues.

FelixFurry

Level 55 (PBE)
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