Rioter Comments
: Nexus Blitz Temporarily Down *BACK UP NOW*
: > [{quoted}](name=Fearless,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=OxyqP7i2,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-08-03T20:45:26.021+0000) > > Hey PBE Friends, > > We're doing some isolation testing for broader performance problems with the PBE. As part of that, we've brought down Nexus Blitz, but we'll have it up again shortly. Apologies for the downtime, and the lack of immediate messaging. Is it gona take too long? Like what.. 1 day or just couple of hours? This sucks man I dont have a PC so I went to Internet cafe and paid my @$$ off to play it...{{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{sticker:sg-janna}} {{sticker:zombie-nunu-tears}} {{sticker:cass-cry}}
This is really tragic. We are working on bring Nexus Blitz back up right now! I hope you still get to play a bit today.
: Hope the final look, look more original. Than just a smaller SR.
It's all recycled assets for now. That's what we'll be shipping with to live for our experimental run. We would likely do a ton of theming and visual work if it is successful and will be made into a permanent mode.
  Rioter Comments
  Rioter Comments
  Rioter Comments
: Tank supports are absolutely not getting any sort of buff in gold - at best, the change lets them break even to the live gold income. Targon's Brace gives 2 extra gold _per 10 seconds_ - or 12 extra gold per minute. But, remember, it is also losing Bandit. So you are losing 12-13 gold per minute minimum from minions dying nearby. As well as the gold you would have earned for auto-attacking enemy champions. Frostfang, by contrast, is gaining up to 15 gold per 30 seconds, or 30 gold per minute, while losing the same 12-13 per minute from the removal of Bandit. Basically, Frostfang users are gaining 17-18 gold per minute, while Relic users are losing 0-1 gold per minute.
This math does assume that the supports are getting optimal use of charges on frostfang, which really shouldn't be a starting assumption.
: Ok, so as someone who's mained support since she started, this still kinda makes me mad. You took the actives on the support items that I relied on (Face of the Mountain, Talisman, Frost queen's) and threw them out. Threw me for a loop for a couple of weeks (still getting used to the fact that I have to rush Locket now in order to get a shield so my carry doesn't die or _I_ don't die when I dive in with Leona), but it's gotten better (even though I'm still angry about it). These new changes mean that when my adc backs and I'm left alone...it's harder for me to get my mission you made me do in order to get a sightstone. I play tank supports that don't really do much and my cs admittedly sucks. But Supports don't really get a lot of gold, that bandit passive actually helped as it got us able to buy what we needed to keep that glass cannon carry of ours alive. I know it's been said before...but for those of us who don't play Sona, Janna, Karma etc...what's to help us when our carry goes back to base and we're still in lane defending? Because those of us with relic can't really get the passive until a teammate is near. Sorry if this is ranty...I've been trying to figure this out and lately it feels like I'm being pressured to play the squishy enchanters that I don't like to play rather than my hard engage tanks.
I appreciate the feedback. We don't want these changes to feel like they're pushing away mage or tank supports. We're also not looking to create penalties for farming that meaningfully hurt supports that take a few CS defending against a push, or shoving a wave after their ADC drops. We have some tweaks that we're building currently to ease up on some of the pain that these situations are causing, which we think we can lessen without increasing poaching risk.
: One major issue I see with this is the impact the stack generation mostly with the Relic line has with the melee duos who run this bot lane (Hello Mordekaiser and Leona). I know it isn't meta or anywhere close to it, but I see this hurting both their chances for striking a lead and for sustaining against their ranged and often times bursty lane opponents.
Agreed that this is an undesirable cost, but preserving this on existing items has a lot of cost. My assumption right now is that we'd need to create a farming duo targons item if we wanted to truly support this. No timelines on when we'd introduce something like this, but I think there is clear benefit to such an item existing.
: Geeeeezzz, Nomad gold income buffed once again... It's already generating more gold than Relic Shield/Spellthief's Edge, come on rito... Note: Now i have more reasons to abuse Ancient Coin line tho, even it's no fun :/
The income is actually net down by quite a bit more than the other lines.
: A bit specific. but do the CS restrictions apply just as hard when you proc Spellthief's AND kill a minion (via an aoe spell?)
: At this point, I would love to know if the dev team has considered jungling the support items, as in making them effectively locked to the role? Obviously with jungling it works through the summoner spell, and creating one of those and then forcing supports to take it isn't ideal but... controversial idea perhaps consider just hard locking it to the role itself at champ select (either by being given or traded it)? These items have been getting poached for a while, and in my opinion the role itself would be so much easier to balance if these items were just hard locked. You could bring the passives back and keep all the positives of not having sightstone and stop this nightmare of trying to prevent players from poaching them.. Obviously this goes against giving players agency to build them, but it seems the dev team (and I certainly agree) has found no case in where the poaching of these items is ever _**not **_ abuse. It works great with jungling items, and it would give back some more power to supports by giving them back their passives and allowing more unique things to be done with the item. It's been a balancing nightmare this season and the last, finding a way to lock them IMO gives the best of all worlds. There doesn't seem to be any place in which anyone wants to see these items on a non support. And juggling around their power and just frontloading them with gold was why the quests were added in the first place, and also hurts roaming supports and supports who are behind more when they desperately need to proc quests.
The summoner spell binding approach works effectively, but at very large cost. We limit the flexibility of junglers quite a lot, and have created a terrible fail case if a jungler ever forgets smite in their game. While this is a very rare case, the total failure case that results is undesirable. For supports, we also have the issue that no clear summoner exists already. We see a reasonable amount of heal, ignite, and exhaust, and I believe it would be an error to cement one of these as the only option. Allowing a wider pool of the existing summoner spells to unlock support items drastically weakens the gating, and creating new summoner spells solely for the purpose of creating a new gating mechanism bloats a system that offers much better clarity and choice when we keep it as streamlined as possible. I do hear the various forms of unhappiness with the current gating mechanisms, and I'll be looking into the cost benefits of other possible mechanisms that have been discussed internally and echoed here on the boards.
: So why is it that these changes are coming now and not when ADC's were starting this item during ardent meta lol
: > All lines: Charge generation, charge usage,and GP10 deactivate after killing minions or monsters. These penalties are increase dramatically for streaks of CS. (still to do, exploring different ramping models) will support items 'unlock' on t3 upgrade with regards to charge gen, like spellthief's line currently does?
Yes. All the CS restrictions go away upon tier 3 upgrade.
: So it feels like tank supports are getting a massive buff in gold, and everyone else is getting a small buff in gold with Frostfang. Coin is already bad, and even champions that are intended to buy it (Rakan, Janna, Soraka) don't buy it anymore. Not sure why it's being nerfed. Also is it supposed to be, "Expected coin drop down, to 8.5 per 10 minutes from 9 **_minutes_** (still to do)" or "Expected coin drop down, to 8.5 per 10 minutes from 9 **_coins _**(still to do)"?
That should be coins implied there. Note that's also off a very rough how many coins can we expect you to pick up, not just to spawn.
: My issue with this on first glance is that if your ADC dies and you have to clear up a wave, it will now delay your sightstone quest completion and give less gold. I know your ADC dying isnt ideal, but it happens a lot and losing gold generation from it would feel awful.
This is something we're definitely watching for. You'll be net up in gold by quite a bit, but these cases do slow down quest completion. Getting testing to get data on how often this happens and much impact it has is one reason we went to PBE for an extra cycle.
  Rioter Comments
  Rioter Comments
  Rioter Comments
: @Riot Is Blade of the Ruined King not receiving attention during preseason?
I wouldn't say that BotRK is currently doing any of the jobs we'd like it to, but Marksman items have been distorted by a few other adjacent systems in recent history, most notably flat pen items and the state of Fervor. Still on the radar, but we're also interested to see what happens as we make improvements in those systems.
: Can the new wards replacing Pink Wards please be pink?
We currently have these red because they have are more similar to sweeper trinkets than they are pink wards, so linking them to the sweeper disabling is likely more valuable to make sure players use them well. By brown, I'm guessing you mean the current icon. We have the real icon coming in soon, which is quite red. In playtests, we've defaulted to calling them reds, but interested to see what folks settle on.
: How does Lethality work?
Hey, just posted info and the formula here. http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/RYuvnjbT-lethality-info
  Rioter Comments
  Rioter Comments
: Wow that is funny, I was just thinking of how Mecha has those indicators this morning... You aren't stalking me are you?
I promise this took slightly longer than that to build.
  Rioter Comments
: Cinderhulk + Sunfire Cape seem to critically strike
Thanks for the report. The game does some interesting things when multiple sources of magic damage hit in the same frame, so there might be something happening there. We'll look into this.
: Cynderhulk Description
Thanks for the report!
: Does attacking wards count as being in combat?
Currently yes. Probably need to fix that.
: From several games using Cinderhulk I feel this is a step in the right direction for tank junglers. However, seeing as how this item will be a must buy for tank junglers I feel it comes with 1 potentially major drawback. With it being an aura, the jungler must maintain a certain distance from monsters in order to not draw agro. This can be problematic when trying to remain hidden in the brush near blue or red buff looking for a steal or kill due to the aura drawing agro. Another problematic area (while much easier to remedy) is near baron, and to a lesser extent, dragon pit. The jungler must be aware when attempting to bait/ wait for teammates that standing too close will draw agro. A possible solution to this problem would be to add a toggle feature which would allow the aura to be turned off when necessary.
The damage on Cinderhulk only turns on during combat, meaning that if you haven't taken damage or attacked, the fire aura isn't on. This is built specifically for the situations you list.
: > Cinderhulk now grants +25% bonus health. This means jungle tanks get more for their gold as they build tanky. {{item:3143}} {{item:3083}} Here's the thing: it only amplifies bonus health if you buy items like Randuin's Omen and Warmog's Armor. These items are built by both bruisers and tanks alike. What I'm afraid of is that instead of bringing back let's say Nautilus, this will rather empower Volibear, Olaf and Sion: champions with AD scalings too low for Warrior, but perfectly viable health stacking builds. {{item:3110}} The problem is that true tanks, **especially now that their enchantment loses CDR**, often opt for items like Frozen Heart - and, if they can afford, Thornmail, Iceborn Gauntlet and Abyssal Scepter. These items are true tank items, but don't grant health. This is bringng back the Spirit of the Ancient Golem dilemma, where you felt bad for going heavily for resistances on a jungler. SotAG was already in the game, and it did not make any of the tank junglers competitively viable. Most Rammus players back in his short reign stopped at Quill Coat or even bought Madred's Razors. Rammus was OP *despite* SotAG, not thanks to it. **Possible solution:** Cinderhulk should amplify total health, not just bonus health. **Best solution:** I think the best way here would be introducing **10-15% damage reduction from targets affected by crowd control**, much like what the Opression mastery already does. This is what tanks do - they stun people, slow people, taunt people. This would be perfect for the likes of Nautilus, Sejuani and Rammus, while not outright abusable on Vi, Jarvan and Lee Sin.
Totally reasonable feedback, but there are some elements getting over looked here. The first would be build order. It's pretty rare that a fighter goes jungle item into Randuins. Fighter's generally are going to opt into damage items, and eventually grab some health. This means that Cinderhulk is less effective for most of the game for them. Tanks, on the other hand, will often opt into builds that are very defensively oriented. The nature of defensive stats also mean that the effective health growth on tanks means that even with early frozen hearts, Cinderhulk is going to make tanks noticeably more tanky, while also giving them better access to their gold income. This is still a bit simplistic, but there's a reasonable case for Cinderhulk favoring Tanks, and if we find that the current tuning doesn't make this true, we have the space to change that quickly as needed.
: So when can a jungler pick this item up to help them? The biggest problem is helping them out earlier in the game I thought.
Gromp can fill in some of the gaps, but Bami's Cinder is the first item to build after the machete upgrade.
: I'm guessing this Bami's Cinder thing is going to build into Sunfire as well, seems like a natural progression to me
: Yay mini-Sunfire! Quick questions; * Are Warrior-based junglers or bruisers going to end up building this too? (Specifically Vi and Jarvan; those two seem like they would love building this + Brutalizer and being ok) * Is anything for Magus or Devourer junglers going to come up, similar to this? There are few strong Magus junglers, and I've seen almost every champion that could build Devourer building Warrior instead.
We are considering changes similar to this for other Enchants. Right now, Warrior and Magus are both pretty extreme power spikes, but don't do much to amp up the rest of your build. There's very likely some very cool opportunity space to make these items feel better and more like the item that makes all your other items better. As for fighters buying Cinder hulk plus damage, it's possible, but they'll get less effective health out of their builds, as they spend more gold on offensive stats. Having some space for them to opt into that trade off is ok. If it ends up being dominant, we'd likely reduce the base health the item gives, and look to increase the long term scaling.
  Rioter Comments
: The only ranged junglers are mages like Fiddlesticks and Karthus, and they don't really deal much of their damage through basic attacks. Keep in mind Krugs already have negative MR. Alternatively, the ranged dmg reduction could last for a limited time, much like with your first iteration (Krugs and Gromp had their buffs). There's also solution number four: delay spawns until 2:10 or later (that would require some compensation for junglers, though).
We've tested some delays, and there are some very high costs, especially going for as long as 2:10. 2:10 feels like level one ambush/gank plays become the "right" way to play the game, because the jungler has too much free time, and the lanes have zero chance to leash. We do also have some range junglers like Kayle and Twitch that are actually very auto dependent, and I'd prefer to not hit them to solve the poaching problem. Not saying we'd never consider it, but looking to explore other possibilities beforehand.
: Since jungle camps are poached in bottom lane for the XP lead, wouldn't shifting some of that xp into machete be a possible option? Like say reduce all camps xp reward by X%, and make machete boost xp gained from camps by the same amount.
Yup. This goes very heavy handed, and as you speak about, really hurts the fall back patterns of losing lanes. It's preferable to find a solution that doesn't just tell laners "These camps aren't for you" and instead goes for "Are you sure you want to take these?"
: Thanks for the context. For the third try, you could give Krugs some flat reduction from ranged attacks.
> [{quoted}](name=Pyroblasty,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=p77Wmyr4,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2014-12-16T20:53:15.813+0000) > > Thanks for the context. For the third try, you could give Krugs some flat reduction from ranged attacks. We've talked about that. Potentially hurts some of the existing ranged junglers. Not off the table, but potentially hits problems of hitting our junglers as much if not more than the bot lanes.
: Wasn't there a change that hit the PBE where the red buff and blue buff spawned later than the other camps? It never hit live for some reason. Doesn't that kind of solve the problem, since the junglers kind of have to start on krugs or gromp, stopping the poaching? Then again, the junglers could just migrate to the top side of the jungle... The latest iteration seems to be: more jungle monster health, later spawn time, and more damage over time from machete items. The problem with this approach is that it stops people from leashing the jungler because they have to hurry to get to lane, hurting the jungler unless he machete damage somehow makes up for it. Previous iteration seemed to be: increase krug movespeed so they can't be leashed as easily, give them heavy hands to further disincentivize non smite champs from taking them, and move gromps's damage to poison armour for similar reasons. It seems like a pretty good idea overall, given that junglers usually smite these buffs early on anyways. however, the concern is when the junglers choose not to smite them, essentially it forces fiddlesticks to always have to smite krugs in order to not have his drain interrupted. Overall though, I guess it still didn't solve the problem if the next iteration had to be pushed out. Couldn't the solution be as simple as increasing the spawn timers for everything BUT the blue buff and red buff? Jungler gets the leash and no more poaching of krugs, gromp. Or is that too restrictive?
> [{quoted}](name=Fomorian,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=p77Wmyr4,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2014-12-16T20:15:20.226+0000) > > Wasn't there a change that hit the PBE where the red buff and blue buff spawned later than the other camps? It never hit live for some reason. Doesn't that kind of solve the problem, since the junglers kind of have to start on krugs or gromp, stopping the poaching? Then again, the junglers could just migrate to the top side of the jungle... > > The latest iteration seems to be: more jungle monster health, later spawn time, and more damage over time from machete items. The problem with this approach is that it stops people from leashing the jungler because they have to hurry to get to lane, hurting the jungler unless he machete damage somehow makes up for it. > > Previous iteration seemed to be: increase krug movespeed so they can't be leashed as easily, give them heavy hands to further disincentivize non smite champs from taking them, and move gromps's damage to poison armour for similar reasons. It seems like a pretty good idea overall, given that junglers usually smite these buffs early on anyways. however, the concern is when the junglers choose not to smite them, essentially it forces fiddlesticks to always have to smite krugs in order to not have his drain interrupted. Overall though, I guess it still didn't solve the problem if the next iteration had to be pushed out. > > Couldn't the solution be as simple as increasing the spawn timers for everything BUT the blue buff and red buff? Jungler gets the leash and no more poaching of krugs, gromp. Or is that too restrictive? The issue there would be that Krugs and Gromp are intended as possible starting points. If we remove those, junglers would be much more restrictive, and there is less strategic space for building routes.
: Just make the jungle camps insanely strong vs champions without smite/machete for the first 5 minutes of the game.
> [{quoted}](name=PBE Jando,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=p77Wmyr4,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2014-12-16T20:02:51.272+0000) > > Just make the jungle camps insanely strong vs champions without smite/machete for the first 5 minutes of the game. Generally looking to not do anything too heavy handed. One of the reasons we keep having similar issues with poaching is because we do very specific, heavy handed changes, and when we have to fix another part of the game that changes some of the details, very specific fixes break down. We're currently wondering if the cost of leaving the lane alone is just too low. Making the cost of poaching higher seems to be misguided, as we've never really been able to fix poaching this way before, we've just made it impossible (by making the camps spawn so late its not an option). We're almost out of time this year, so there's not likely going to be any more changes going to the PBE in 2014, but we'll continue to test some options internally. The explorations for now will likely be seeing if we can make the cost of leaving the lane higher if the other lane takes action, to offer more counter-play to poaching.
: Can RIOT give the context for the new jungle changes?
I think this could happen. http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/p77Wmyr4-recent-jungle-experimentation-context-post Thanks for the extra bit of motivation to get this out to you all. Had been meaning to do this for days.
  Rioter Comments
: New Jungle, Why you got to be so complicated?
Just wanted to pop in and say that I really appreciate the post. We're still actively balancing things, working on clarifying and simplifying where we can, and it's really helpful to get such well thought out feedback.
: Cassiopeia and Gromp
When were you seeing this interaction? This was a bug from a mistake I made on Gromp's buff, which seems to be fixed on the PBE currently. I hopped into custom to make sure Cass was still getting her E resets on Gromp poison. Were there specific steps to getting this to break?
: MWHAHAHAHAHA I HAVE ASCENDED! {{champion:101}} FIRST! ~~MALICIOUS POWER-ABUSING EDIT: OH REALLY NOW? MWAHAHAHAHA.~~ ~~WHO IS THIS NOOB NEW DASHING SENIOR DESIGNER?~~ ~~**Edit Wars 2015**~~
: > On a minor point in two, we are trying to find a space for the invader jungler to be better at invades than ganks, with the opposite being true for gankers. Definitely has been a more difficult problem, but we are testing a lot of models here. Feedback exceptionally useful here. Since the game's coding already differentiates between minions and monsters, could it be possible to have the jungle items have their passive be buffs based on proximity to said creatures? For example, the invader's item would give bonuses when near monster *and* enemy champions, while the ganker's item would give bonuses while near enemy minions *and* enemy champions.
This would be technically quite easy, but most of the challenge is about making the power the item grants useful in the situation we want them to seek out and succeed. Finding power that is useful in a gank but not nearly as useful a duel was pretty reasonable, will be interested to see the results of our attempts to find power that is useful in a duel but not nearly as powerful in a gank.
: So I really like the ideas proposed. I'm always down for more variety in the jungle in terms of items and said items having some value in the late game. That being said I have a few problems with the various types of items and windows for laner abuse (The glory days of triple Wriggle's Lantern into early dragon). 1. Optimizing choices Sadly in a game like League of Legends where a lot of fights are determined by raw numbers and optimizations of said numbers (Tristana gaining a ton of AS means building AD and critical strike optimizes her kit and damage). So in the end it will boil down to which items gives me better stats? S3's Ancient Golem item became a really strong item because 500 health and tenacity made it insanely gold efficient and good for the late game. The Lizard item on the other hand while it was strong thanks to a certain Prodigal Explorer it got nerfed and became less effective late game so there was no point in junglers picking up that item. Moving on to S4 where the Spirit items gave a percent increase damage to camps in return for health and mana. However champions who picked the Ancient Golem item (tanks) generally didn't do enough damage where the percent increase was really meaningful to them while the more damage oriented ones your sustain scaled with your speed. Also junglers being able to pick up a bit of extra gold on the side meant they had room to build damage making high damage champions a highly popular pick and still they are popular now (Khazix, Elise, Lee). The new Golem item was a fantastic change and a great addition to giving tank junglers the edge they needed to put them on par with their top tier rivals but they lacked the damage to be up there with them. I'm not saying it's unbalanced but generally dealing damage is a good thing. Getting slightly bit off topic but I'm trying to make the point that there will always be an optimal choice. I think one thing you guys have to keep in mind is that pros and players will always find the best builds. The ganking item in the end is the most effective? You'll see junglers who make the best use of that item. Farming jungle item is the most gold efficient? You'll see farming junglers pop up to wreak havoc (Feral Flare ;.;). So don't get discouraged if everybody builds one item since it'll be damn near impossible to create a perfectly balanced set of items. 2. We can't live in a world where farming/counter-jungling/ganking champions can live in peace Generally speaking if ganking junglers were strong that means they can gank a laner, kill said laner, then proceed to invade with a man advantage thus nullifying farming junglers and potentially hurting counter-junglers due to lack of vision and ally support. Unless the gank item is really weak combat wise (which in my opinion shouldn't since ganking is about CC and damage), the other two types of junglers don't stand a chance. If the farming junglers were strong not only is that encouraging a very stale play style (come on this is a 5v5 game not a 4v4 1 v none game despite what the pros do), it also means they clear really fast. The true farmers (Trynd and Yi) will be busy farming up and trying to buy items. Unless we deny them methods of counter-jungling other than the wards they buy, they can just stay safe and even start counter-jungling themselves, especially if we give them the strength of really fast clears and really good gold (I'm thinking feral flare here without the ward). So either counter-junglers have to clear their own stuff before countering or be super cautious about where they go. 3. Counter-junglers are an interesting because of the variety of options. There are guys like Nunu who just take a camp and gtfo or Shyvana who takes camps and not worries as much since she can straight up 1v1 most champions in the game. So the choices would be between clearing faster (like farming!) or dueling (extra damage? but that would be good on gankers) and both sound like the ganking and farming options (much like our current options of Spirit items vs Feral Flare). I HIT MY LIMIT NOOOOOO
Very well thought out post here, and you highlight a handful of the issues we've been dealing with. On point one, we're very aware of the stat optimization problem. Can't talk to much about this, but we are taking steps to make sure that the jungler's declaration of jungle strategy isn't bound to a stat line. Happy to talk more when we have stuff actually on PBE here. On point two, this is absolutely correct, in that each approach to the jungle will interact with each other, and the implications of each style are very profound for their teams. Increasing the visibility of what each jungler brings to their team is very important for this season. On live, teams judge their junglers by the number of ganks they can make. Season 2015 should have junglers doing a lot more outside of direct lane interactions, and making sure teams understand and appreciate these actions is a major focus. On a minor point in two, we are trying to find a space for the invader jungler to be better at invades than ganks, with the opposite being true for gankers. Definitely has been a more difficult problem, but we are testing a lot of models here. Feedback exceptionally useful here. For point three, would love to get your take once we're deployed. You do point out some of the relationships we have intrinsic to the strategies, though we've been trying to get the more specific behaviors incentivized in ways that create differences. Sorry I don't have more details here, but appreciate the in depth post! Let's talk more when the details are out!
: Have y'all considered that this more difficult and downright complex jungle may result in a significant increase in duo top situations, especially in lower levels and lower ELO? Imagine this, you have two top, one takes smite and is basically a roaming laner who jumps in the jungle occasionally to take an important buff and is always there for a major objective, he then takes those buffs into his lane and helps to dominate opponents.
Given the difficulty of the camps, this strat would likely have some major trade-offs. We're not against some new patterns emerging from these jungle changes, as long as they don't become excessively dominant /required. If we were to see this happen in a small percentage of games, and players enjoyed the variety, that's something we're happy to see.
: Okay, but if we conclude that 'Sej has a great late game teamfight power, so she needs to be weak early!' and I get a Lee Sin at my red in every game, we're back to Sej never getting picked and Lee getting picked every game. So what I'm asking is, is Lee getting reworked sometime soon?
We are likely going to see champs need adjustments do to these changes, but that's not actually how we're hoping to address the situation you talk about above. Consider that for Lee to do this, he generally wants to be equal or higher level, and also wants to be equal or higher health. If lee taking his first few camps has to chose between high health and the ability to clear fast enough to ambush at red, this becomes a more varied experience. It also helps if some of the camp rewards provide some safety against invaders, which currently a few do, each in a different way. For those worried about counter jungling being dead, you can steal this rewards as well, setting yourself up for invades. This requires a longer window of time in enemy territory, but we are looking to greatly change up the counter jungling patterns currently seen (or not seen) on live. We're trying to create the jungle as a system that provides the tools for the jungler to be successful, rather than being entirely defendant on their kits. Choices made in the jungle and actions taken have proven as important to a player's success in our tests so far. Can't wait to see how players feel when we get these changes to you all.
Show more

Fearless

Level 32 (PBE)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion