Rioter Comments
: Unavailable skins
Once again, 0 comments, 127 views, keep it up guys. Keeping the threads silent isn't going to make me stop. You wanna downvote, that's fine, but it's definitely preferable for you to actually do something constructive.
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: > [{quoted}](name=EternalSerb024,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=ybohiu8c,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-04T15:13:53.734+0000) > > Yes, you are correct, you can get these skins by buying copious amounts of lootboxes. Because Surprise mechanics are fun and an enjoyable system. While its true you can buy lootboxes to unlock the skins, I don't really consider that an acceptable reason for keeping the stores so clearly inconsistent across live and PBE. Honestly this point is more or less impossible to argue objectively seeing as it completely comes down to whether you're comfortable with lootboxes being the only way to get the skins you want. I am not. I think lootboxes are a terrible system that shouldn't be employed by developers to block off any content, including cosmetics. But if you are, more power to you. I personally do not like loot boxes at all. But its pbe, so you dont spend money on it.
I mean I'm sure most people have been doing that since the store is fucked. But my whole point is that the status of the store is all a matter of user experience. Currently the PBE feels like "your reward for being a nice person on lives is that you get to do our job for us!" because of the honor requirement and the fact that the server suffers from all these user experience problems is inexcusable. For like a week, invites were broken. They very clearly do not give a shit about user experience on the PBE and its honestly reprehensible imo. The whole matter of the store comes down to "if Riot wants to act like PBE is a reward for honor 3, it should actually be fucking rewarding us for helping them." Blizzard's test servers are available to anyone who has the game, overwatch ptr, hots ptr, etc. But Riot seems to expect you to work for the **privilege** of making **their** game function properly.
: Lootboxes exist, especially the premium boxes, which are only available on pbe, do grant random permanent skins instantly with a chance around 40%, at least that's what I have experienced. These include many, many skins which are not buyable anymore.
Yes, you are correct, you can get these skins by buying copious amounts of lootboxes. Because Surprise mechanics are fun and an enjoyable system. While its true you can buy lootboxes to unlock the skins, I don't really consider that an acceptable reason for keeping the stores so clearly inconsistent across live and PBE. Honestly this point is more or less impossible to argue objectively seeing as it completely comes down to whether you're comfortable with lootboxes being the only way to get the skins you want. I am not. I think lootboxes are a terrible system that shouldn't be employed by developers to block off any content, including cosmetics. But if you are, more power to you.
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: The PBE is not a reward. You may choose to interpret some of it as a reward, or find ways to reward yourself, but the PBE is not a reward. The PBE is a testing environment and **volunteer work.** You are volunteering to play on an unstable server to find bugs and give feedback on new features. The PBE is not a treat for players, the PBE is not the ideal place to play, the PBE exists for testing new content as volunteer work. The return of RP was not solely for players benefit. With a steady income of RP, Riot no longer has to do special pricing in the store, which solves several issues including potential mistakes when shipping content to Live servers, overloading the store when people want to buy content (since they are limited in how much the can reasonably buy now), and testing content which may not be coded to be sold for BE. In your original post, it was addressed the champions with a Visual Update do need their old skins tested. This is absolutely true and this is a point that should be argued, because far too many updated champions don't have their skins re-released to be tested. Anything that is updated or new should be opened up for testing. However, old skins do not need testing. The chances for content that hasn't been changed to be bugged and for that bug to not already exist on Live servers is so incredibly minuscule is that there is no point to stress about it. Since there is such a negligible chance there, it is better to have people focus less on old content they want to play around with and direct it more to new content which does need testing. There is content that needs testing but isn't enabled or available. That is absolutely an issue that needs to be raised and fixed. Old skins aren't part of it. That is something that will generally be much more productive, because Riot does not have a good reason to go out of their way on something that isn't what the PBE is intended for.
Alright, so first, it's volunteer work that players have to reach a certain level of "honor" to get. Arguing this is volunteer work, would be like the Red Cross demanding that all of its volunteers have earned a nobel peace prize. If you have to reach a certain rank of human decency, and then you are allowed to join a different server (which is by this system fairly exclusive), it sure sounds like a reward (congrats, you're not a shitty person, here's a PBE account. And then, your reward for doing something (which mind you most companies hire people to do) that Riot needs done anyways is a Sense of Pride and Accomplishment for letting **them** get **their** content tested without having to actually pay anyone. But this doesn't get into the bigger issue, this server was treated as a reward when we first gained access to it, we were given the ability to purchase skins with a daily grant of RP and they weren't artificially limiting what we could do. The server stopped being treated as a reward when a bug occurred and Riot realized that by screwing us over they could get their testing down without having to pay or reward anyone and began trying to screw us over by removing shit from the store for no reason (you may argue that it was "because it doesn't need testing" but it takes more effort to remove it than to just leave it and keep your players somewhat happy.) Riot is doing their damnedest to limit what we can do on the server and I'm not one to take it lying down. It is true that the return of was motivated by riot not wanting special pricing, I don't disagree with you there. I think though that the greater motivator was the fact that after six months there were still 2+ posts a day asking about RP. Riot was most likely sick and tired of seeing the boards cluttered with complaints and decided to correct it. Lastly, you are correct that Riot doesn't have a good reason to go out of their way to spend time on something the server isn't meant for but there are two major counterpoints, the butchering of the store in the first place (going out of their way to screw over players because "it doesn't need testing anymore (fuck the players)" and Riot Skitteacher.) So first, there was no reason for riot to manually apply the effort to remove skins from the store just because it doesn't need testing. If the server is only for things that needs testing, why doesn't Riot literally remove everything that isn't new each patch? Finally, Riot skitteacher said that they want the server stores to be consistent so either that was a lie or riot are really bad at doing the things they want to, seeing as this was six months ago I'm inclined to believe that Skitteacher was just making excuses since "we don't give a fuck if our players want to have an enjoyable PBE experience as long as they do their jobs as guinea pigs" doesn't have as nice a ring as "We try to keep store content consistent across Live and PBE to mitigate risks." Sidenote: Thank you for giving a well constructed argument for your point, I wish more of the people who disagree with me were more like you. It would make this process more constructive and feel less like a waste of everyone's time.
: thank you brother, keep up the fight
hopefully more people will join the fight since I don't see one person making much of a difference. That said, I have no intentions of stopping anytime soon.
Rioter Comments
: PBE is an enviornment to test "new" skins, not old ones that doesnt have any bugs, hence when a champion gets reworked, all their skins are on release
You're right, that's why baker pantheon was absolutely 100% available for testing. If you were to go back to day 1 you'd notice I addressed the fact that baker pantheon, despite needing testing, was not made available. My more recent posts have all been including a link to the day 1 post as I realized it'd be weird to make people go back through the days to get a more in depth assessment of all the problems.
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: Unavailable skins
If you disagree with me, Then please go ahead and explain why you do not believe this is an issue. Because if you're just going to downvote and move on, then you are an asshole who has added nothing constructive to the conversation. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, go right ahead, but if you're going to do so, then have the dignity to explain why you disagree. Or you know, just let Riot get away with intentionally limiting our options as much as they want so that we can't have any reward for helping riot do **their own** fucking job and keep **their** game functioning.
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: Baker Pantheon does need testing. Just like all other Pantheon skins. Riot just tends to forget to enable the VGU skins ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
I never said it didn't I used it as an example of skins that **do** need testing but can't get any because they're not available. Also, "sorry we forgot to enable it for testing" will be my favorite excuse if it were to hit live servers bugged. Riot's idiotic policy could easily lead to a skin with game-breaking bugs to appear on live servers and damn near nobody would know in advance. That's complete BS.
Rioter Comments
: RP on PBE, it’s back!
One last attempt to get you guys to actually do something for our sake instead of your own interests. So when the RP system first broke, after a few months it became clear you guys were hoping it would blow over and you could just give us whatever you needed tested so you wouldn't need to pay people to do that. This did not happen. As was clear, the forums became flooded with threads complaining about the lack of RP and after around half a year of silence, we got this. A step in the right direction to be sure, but with the way the jinx skin was handled it's once again clear that you don't give a damn about our feedback. So as one final attempt to get you to give PBE players some kind of reward for helping **you** release updates for **your** game without them breaking it, Please just restore the shop so we can buy everything that's on live servers + the stuff from the next patch. I mean for fuck's sake Baker Pantheon can't be tested by people who didn't get it before last july because prior to us getting RP back, everything from May 2016 - feb 2019 was stripped from the shop. If the past year has been any indicator, this comment will probably fade away without getting a response from any rioters or PBE players. I mostly typed this out because I needed to know I made one last attempt to get the store fixed before I stopped trying.
: Mini rework on Kayle >.<
the true damage is being removed because it's impossible to balance. I mean seriously, I have no clue what they were smoking when they decided "herp derp let's give this champ aoe true damage with a strong AP and AD ratio on every auto attack as well as giving her a massive attack speed, this is a good idea" but I'm glad they removed it, who knows maybe she'll actually become strong but balanced instead of either being unfathomably broken or absolutely unplayable.
: Used to be you got your RP reset to 8000RP each day but apparently, in the "RP is back" sticky, they say that too much RP crashes the store. I don't really... buy that. It makes it sound like each RP is a process running on your computer when it should really just be a number in a secure database. 3000RP isn't even enough to grab a set of skins.
the 8000 RP giving system broke because of new security systems the introduced to all the servers to keep people's wallet info safe. If you want to complain about something, make it about a real fucking problem. I for one am glad to get only **1000** RP a day if it means that the store will be fixed so we can actually buy skins that were released between may 2016- feb 2019. Everything since the last wave of super galaxy skins is currently not available in the store but instead people are bitching about not having enough RP instead of the fact that shit is blocked off to us. Because nobody is bringing this up, Riot doesn't give a fuck about us being unable to purchase this stuff.
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: No no no, I'm fine with them having chromas IF they actually changed their vfx. Also, Pyke is not the first legendary to have chromas
> [{quoted}](name=Bird Lad,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=sRkRJQEE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-18T01:40:50.116+0000) > > No no no, I'm fine with them having chromas IF they actually changed their vfx. Also, Pyke is not the first legendary to have chromas What irks me is that when they did the papercraft line, it looked like they were going to start changing vfx to match the chroma colors...and then they just kind of didn't.
: > [{quoted}](name=EternalSerb024,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=3AEB3uHA,comment-id=002f00000000,timestamp=2019-03-22T23:10:53.290+0000) > > they used to do that but now it just seems like a stupid restriction. In addition to that, it creates a massive discrepancy between the PBE and live stores. You asked for a why, I gave the explanation D: They used to do that indeed, and haven't done it with the more recent skins. They just haven't "fixed" it with the older skins is all. It's up to debate whether they'll fix it, considering it's still old content and it still no longer needs any testing. I've learned that Riot should mess with the store as little as possible if we want to prevent the entire thing from going to hell. They could be available is mystery chests and the Hextech system though, so you can try your luck with that.
I did not ask for a why, someone else did, I simply responded with a criticism of the policy. That said, I am unsure on if they'll fix it, if the community demands it often enough (they won't, they're too busy bitching about how "waa waa it's not *enough* RP" D:) Riot might fix it but as is you're probably right about Riot not bothering with it. The only good reason I can think of that Riot might is because it creates an inconsistency between the two stores.
: > [{quoted}](name=pooooooooooom,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=3AEB3uHA,comment-id=002f,timestamp=2019-03-22T22:32:42.667+0000) > > Why most skins is limited I can not buy Riot disabled a lot of older content from store once it no longer needs testing.
they used to do that but now it just seems like a stupid restriction. In addition to that, it creates a massive discrepancy between the PBE and live stores.
: > [{quoted}](name=LL Hari,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=eXgV1yiu,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-03-21T18:24:23.172+0000) > > I think that's better but you know rito. I know that they could've just not gave us RP at all but you know the community, always ungrateful for what they get even when riot does listen to the community.
As someone who was previously extremely vocal in my complaints about the loss of RP and proposed solutions, I have to say I'm sick of people bitching about the RP. We have it now, it's a good amount jesus fucking christ.
: We try to keep store content consistent across Live and PBE to mitigate risks.
As happy as I am with the return of RP I do feel the need to point out that there are some skins that are only available for purchase on live, the cosmic line, the god-king skins, gun goddess MF, etc. Out of curiosity, are you guys planning on fixing this issue and if not, just tell us so we know.
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot skiteacher2,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=3AEB3uHA,comment-id=00270000,timestamp=2019-03-20T21:56:56.591+0000) > > We try to keep store content consistent across Live and PBE to mitigate risks. They also don't need testing anymore.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot skiteacher2,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=3AEB3uHA,comment-id=00270000,timestamp=2019-03-20T21:56:56.591+0000) > > We try to keep store content consistent across Live and PBE to mitigate risks. Which is why the omega squad, pajama guardian, and wave 3 project skins are all available on PBE right? And Gun Goddess Mf. And God Staff Jax. And the cosmic line. And the god king skins. And... Honestly I'm hoping that they get these back to being available. That said, I'm just happy to have RP again.
: >more obtained content not really. daily missions were 50 BE and every item was 1 BE, making 50 items per day. with 3k rp per day you can get 3 or 4 max.
yes, but actually no. It would be 50 items per day...except there were only like 10 available per week.
: RP on PBE, it’s back!
overjoyed with this change, my only issue is that it could lead to increased toxicity from people just grinding out a game a day (which could be solved with the reintroduction of Bot games to the server) and that the skins which were being made unavailable "BeCaUsE cOnTeNt ThAt IsN't NeW sHoUlDn'T bE tEsTeD oN PBE" should be brought back into the store. Many skins such as the omega squad line are currently locked away. Overall though I am very glad that your team has listened to player demands and especially happy that the forums will finally shut up about "BrInG BaCk RP".
: i think this is a good step, but it's kinda shitty because, well, people will play games only for RP and i think everyone knows how toxic PBE can be. maybe, like other people said, get back co-op vs. ai games and maybe also aram? since urf is probably going to the vault again which leaves solo q only. also, i can't do the math right now but with every new patch comes skins+chromas+items+wards, which would be WAY WAY more than 3k rp total (2 epic skins is already 2.7k). i guess people are just gonna RP grind which may be your goal but it just doesn't feel good. my suggestion for this issue would be maybe getting the new stuff for 50% off in the first three days that they are going live, which would reward people that read s@20/forums. don't get me wrong, i really miss RP on PBE, but i think this just sounds very greedy for a beta environment. a few people already have the idea that PBE is only for skins and with this update it would be basically correct. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
eh it's one game every day for 3 days a week to acquire 9000 RP and get past the old grants system, it's still more obtained content than the BE system.
: OH MY.. Just imagine if they did that for a day for like worlds or something and made it a select few....
*cough cough* prestige blood moon boris *cough cough*
: why you just create missions with rp rewards ??{{champion:157}} {{champion:110}}
no coding infrastructure for that sort of thing and they're lazy to make it.
: Make Kayle's W a target spell
it is targeted, I just tested in practice tool, if you activate without target it targets nearest, if you highlight ally then it hits them
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: > [{quoted}](name=EternalSerb024,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=eavUqFpr,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-13T05:37:39.830+0000) > > yes, I'm aware how the rp system works, if you notice keys are also not actually stored as physical loot objects, which should mean that it's possible to set it up so that when an item is obtained, rather than being stored as that item, it is transferred to increase a certain value. This should mean that putting RP into the loot section for the price of BE then having it increase the value of your RP tracker should be possible. It's also probably not nearly as much effort as literally removing every new skin from PBE once it hits live...along with its chromas...that last action can only be justified as "riot wants you to go to live servers and pay them money" If it was possible, they probably would've done it. They'll do whatever is easiest, low effort and low store traffic (to prevent it from crashing). They even looked into [League Partner/PC Cafe](https://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/client-new-features-feedback/HpAQL7wL-update-on-pbe-rp-and-be-granting?comment=00010000). Historically, Riot has always supported the stance that PBE is only meant to test *new* content. It's not exclusive to the current situation, and this isn't the first time old content isn't available. Some examples are [here](https://imgur.com/a/FfzYMCd) and [here](http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-pbe-feedback/ld7Eik6x-dark-star-thresh-is-unavailable-to-buy-from-the-store?comment=0001). Anyway, I'm not here to convince anyone or argue why Riot hasn't done X or did do Y. I'm just here to inform people with the information that is available. See you on the Rift o/
it's not a matter of if it's possible, it's a matter of if it's difficult or not, Riot never implemented it not because they can't, but because they don't care, Riot has consistently been removing things once they hit live which demonstrates a shift in the mentality of "PBE is for testing new things but we will still pay PBE players with an enjoyable play environment by allowing them to use old skins" to "PBE is for testing new things." Riot is actively removing every new skin and its chromas once it hits live with no given reason other than "PBE is for testing new things." If you look at the Dark Star Thresh situation you gave, the Rioter literally proceeded to put it back up because back then, they cared about what PBE players wanted. Now they have said they will not look into a solution for the RP problem because "PBE is for testing new things." Edit: also for the discord message, I'm sure there is some context that is missing there.
: > [{quoted}](name=EternalSerb024,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=eavUqFpr,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-11T04:19:35.200+0000) > > yeah, those systems don't work, but they can literally just put an item into the PBE store that costs 16000 BE and gives 16000 RP, it's not a new system, just a new item that can be purchased, hell by doing this, they could make it so new stuff no longer costs BE and just make it so we buy new stuff with RP if that's ever had problems...*cough cough* recent blood moon skins *cough cough* hit live servers for 1 BE which wouldn't have been a problem if we had to buy it with RP which we could buy from the loot section for BE. This doesn't cause security issues unless they accidentally update live and give it this like idiots. It's a simple fix that doesn't run into security problems because you no longer have a program editing the RP of every account on the servers. It's not like PBE doesn't get custom store items already, we do every single time new skins are added, we get a version of the skin with no proper name code or icon that costs 1 BE. There is no reason for not undoing the 1 BE costs and implementing an RP purchase mechanic except "fuck you pay me" Blood Moon skins weren't BE on live, some of the loot items were x) The thing is, you don't buy RP in the store. I mean, yeah, you do, but in a *separate tab* in the store. A tab that only handles real money, it's not really connected to the rest of the store. Putting BE as a viable currency in there isn't just a switch. Similarly, bundles in the store are coded in such a way that they can only cost RP, that's why we need to buy all chromas one by one. Riot can't just change that stuff for just PBE, they'll have to recode store for that and then pray those changes don't accidentally go to live servers or anything (like certain loot items). It's not worth it to put that much effort, resources and money into a PBE-only change.
yes, I'm aware how the rp system works, if you notice keys are also not actually stored as physical loot objects, which should mean that it's possible to set it up so that when an item is obtained, rather than being stored as that item, it is transferred to increase a certain value. This should mean that putting RP into the loot section for the price of BE then having it increase the value of your RP tracker should be possible. It's also probably not nearly as much effort as literally removing every new skin from PBE once it hits live...along with its chromas...that last action can only be justified as "riot wants you to go to live servers and pay them money"
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EternalSerb024

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