: Taric Feedback
Heal doesn't need buffed. Each charge now scales with 1% max HP rather than 1.5% bonus HP. At level 1 the base heal is 36, not 30. Scaling up to around 50 at level 18, before items. Assuming Taric has 3.5k HP with items, it's healing for 65 each charge (325 with max charges) which is really strong. Also has a 1.0 AP ratio for what it's worth. So a sole AP item like Ardent Censor would add 60 healing by itself. I'd say that Taric now wants to get Q to rank 4 asap, then max E (4 charges means Q > AA AA > E or W > AA AA > Q). 3 charges or 5 charges doesn't neatly fit into a combo, since Taric's passive is in sets of 2. So either you get Q to rank 2 or 4. Nothing else. And whether it's 2 or 4 will depend on Combos. 4 is probably the best overall since E is such a strong ability at rank 1 anyway. Either way, Taric's going to be pretty strong in top lane now since at level 3 (with rank 2 Q) he can Q > AA AA > Q > AA AA > Q > AA AA to infinity until his mana runs out. That's immense duelling power (constant passive procs and ~75 healing every Q pop).
: Have you considered scaling the permafrost cooldown on targets based on rank? rank 1 -> 10 seconds, rank 5 -> 6 seconds? Also does it get affected by cdr? Also I think the monster dmg on E should be a bit higher (400 -> 450-500). It's already restricted by a stacking mechanic and 8 second cooldown while someone like Nunu just comes around and presses a button and deals 400-1140 true dmg instantly to a monster.
No need. I just tested another jungle clear with the changes. A no leash clear now feels pretty fast and you end up at half health after Blue > Gromp > Wolves > Red >Raptors/Krugs. With a leash you'll end up at near full health (using two pots). This is the best her jungle clear has ever been. 400 is a **LOT **of damage early on for someone with AoE as well (unlike Nunu). And by the time it stops being incredibly strong in the jungle, you no longer need it anyway (you have items). The knockback + slow on W also allows you to kite the monsters a bit in order to mitigate damage. She's in a **really** good spot after these changes. I think she might even be _too_ good now. We'll have to wait and see.
: 4/23 Lot of changes, but most should be self explanatory Passive Frost Armor no longer broken by minions or small monsters Icebreker Damage: 15/20/25% -> 10/15/20% W No longer self slows, not worth CD: 7/6.5/6/5.5/5 -> 9/8/7/6/5 1st hit Damage: 12/19/26/33/40 (+0.01HP) -> 30/35/40/45/50 (+0.02HP) 2nd hit Damage: 48/76/104/132/160 (+0.04HP) -> 40/80/120/160/200 (+0.05HP) Bonus damage to monsters: 20% -> 30% E Frost cooldown on monsters: 4 seconds
Very good changes. I'm glad to see Icebreaker nerfed in favor of W. This also encourages maxing W first, which I feel is the intended route for her. Question: Do you think it might be worth changing Frost Armor to 2 seconds (at all levels) rather than 1/2/3? Or change it to 1.5/2/2.5? Not only is the power spike from 1 secs to 2 secs really huge, but 1 second just feels far too short in order to feel satisfying/meaningful. 3 seconds also feels a bit too powerful on the flip-side, even if it's only past LV 13; I just feel that Sej taking almost no damage for a full 3 seconds after initiating is a bit too good. Making it 2 seconds at all levels should resolve both these issues. It's also very good for a counterplay standpoint . If it's always 2 seconds, then enemies can time their abilities/attacks on her for better consistency, rather than it suddenly increasing in duration. So if say, Brand wanted to burst her down, he'll be able to better predict when her passive is about to dissipate, and therefore cast his W just before it's about to. If her passive arbitrarily increases to 3 seconds at LV 14, this may make the Brand mistime his spells which is honestly at no fault to the Brand. He actually gets punished for correctly trying to play around her passive. Otherwise, it should help her jungle clear a bit as well. So this is a good option if she still needs a nudge there.
: There is skill expression in the ult... deliberately missing it because you have more damage and more CC that way. Gotta whistle it behind them for full potential. Amazing.
Huh? You get a two second stun for landing it. Followed up after E is potentially a 4 second stun. If you're only getting the slow off the ult (which can miss if the enemy walks out of it, even more likely when they are on the outskirts of it due to missing) then you may as well wait to stack E instead. In very little circumstances you want the slow ASAP or not need the immediate stun to initiate. If anything, if there are indeed times where you'd want to miss it to forgo the immediate stun or miss out on double stun that would be... an interesting prospect of the ability if anything that's not necessarily bad. As such, she does have skill expression: Ult into Q is often needed to proc Icebreaker ASAP. But that means you may waste Q to use after the enemy uses an escape after ult wares off. Ult to initiate has draw backs since you cannot double stun. But in order to double stun it has to be delayed. W has skill expression and landing it procs E and (now) applies a slow to stick to them. Ult being body blocked is now a lot more detrimental than before since the stun isn't AoE. So you need to make sure you use it when you can lock down a priority target. E can only be stacked one time for each melee champ. So you need to do most of the work to proc E. Honestly there's improvements to be made -- I still think E or Icebreaker is too powerful relative to W. So a power shift would be good. Otherwise I think that as per usual, people are just _wanting_ reasons to dislike something because different = bad. I've played the new Sej quite a bit now and she's definitely the most interesting iteration we've had yet. And I've played her since 2012. What I do really like about new Sej is **risk vs. reward**. Double Icebreaker combo is one of the most satisfying things to pull off. But you do have to make the concious decision as to whether achieving it is worthwhile or even possible. This means that while the combo is ridiculously strong is isn't always an option and you have to work for it at times. That's really good design (even if I think it's a little too strong). If you miss a W it can completely cost you big time if you're trying to set it up, because you haven't used ulti so far, and may be forced to do so if you cannot stun with E fast enough.
: 4/21 Passive CD 15 -> 9 No longer scales down with movement Now ignores minions at 7 and non epic monsters at 14 (a la Garen) W 2nd hit places a brief slow on enemies it hits, Sejuani is also slightly slowed when she is attacking (mostly to add the feel of weight, feedback here would be very appreciated) W radius larger Fixed a bug that caused Sejuani to move into the target when she right clicks them while casting W
Any thoughts on increasing the W bonus damage to monsters to help her clear speed a bit? 20% bonus > 50%? Early on this is a flat damage bonus of about 20. Should help a bit. **OR** double E's stun against monsters so that Sejuani takes less damage on her initial clears. At her core, she's a jungler. And needs to actually be decent at clearing. I fear that she's just going to end up being a better top laner than jungler, since her clear isn't being improved (but her 1v1/dueling is). New W is still pretty weak, even relative to the old one. It's speaks volumes when E is the desirable ability at level 1 when W is meant to be the jungle clearing tool. Overall power wise I think she may be in a good spot currently. Contrary to what I've said above, I still think she's a strong champ now overall. However, there's very little power budget funnelled into W compared to E or passive (E > Icebreaker > Ult > Icebreaker is too powerful if anything). So a shift here could be beneficial for jungle. And I'm largely in favour of that since W has more skill expression tied into it.
: I played a lot of pre-update Sejuani. I haven't had too much time to play with the changes yet. I have some concerns, and some things I think are good about the new update. I think addressing concerns are more important so I'll start with those, trying to keep it as concise as possible since I have a lot to say: **GENERAL COMMENTS:** >She now lacks any means of offensive itemisation. Currently, picking up Runic Echoes or a Liandry's Torment allows you to snowball leads somewhat. She no longer has any offensive item that she can legitimately build, forcing her into a completely strict tank build path. I don't want to be able to go full AP and one shot people, but I also want to pick up an extra offensive item when my team is triple tank and we want some extra damage as a team, or when ahead, or when the enemy adc is literally lifestealing off my damage faster than I can dish it out. This could be rectified by restoring an AP ratio to her W, and making it magic damage. >Her first jungle clear feels too mana gated. >It feels as though there is a lot of down-time in fights where you aren't really doing anything. **ON THE E:** >The thematics of her new E is horrible and does nothing to create this "leader" fantasy. Sejuani's a strong, powerful warleader who should be able to do things by herself. If anything she should be "inspiring" her allies in some manner, but such a kit has a place on a more support-oriented character. I urge you to focus more on how Sejuani is a icy, barbarian warrior moreso than this leader theme. Any form of leader-focused gameplay will transition her into more of a support. As is, she feels more like the boss who takes credit for other people's work than any kind of great leader. >The gameplay of her new E is equally horrible. Almost not having an ability unless your teammates can set it up for you is an awful feeling, and whilst it's one which could work on a support (similar to how Braum works now), a LOT of her power is invested there, whereas for Braum he has a lot else that he is doing, and Yasuo has means of setting up his own ultimate without his team. >Additionally on the E, a targetted stun is usually used to lock down a priority target or shut down someone who is very mobile. This E allows you to do neither of these things, as you are not going to be able to stack the passive on mobile champions, and the priority squishies are probably dead if they've been auto attacked by some champions like Master Yi or Yasuo 4 times. As a result, a huge portion of your power is lacked behind this powerful, low cooldown stun which has so much potential power that will rarely be used. >There is no thought or decision making here. Hammer lights up, stun. Very boring. >>As a side note, does Renekton's AA=>empowered W fully stack your passive? >The ult locking out the E passive feels really bad. Please do not prevent frost stacks after stunning someone with Glacial Prison. >This ability feels out of place on her kit. It feels like an ability for a mage support, not for a tank. **ON THE ULT:** >Currently you are rewarded for missing your ultimate since it allows you to get an E stun and more damage. I have no other concerns with the new ultimate, however once this is addressed. **ON THE W:** >I play a lot of Camille, who's W is similar in a sense (it locks out your AA and moves with you), so I think this is a mechanic that comes more naturally to me than other Sejuani players. The gameplay feels fine to me in terms of how the ability works, however... >The animations on it, with Sejuani literally bending 180 degrees at the waist looks terrible. Locking out movement during it doesn't work that well, because the ability's cast time is quite long. The best solution here is probably to introduce a strafing animation to Bristle. >The ability feels very unimpactful, particularly early game. It is low damage, and does nothing other than stack your E passive. Allowing the ability to slow would go a ways to the satisfaction issues with the ability. Even something like a 30% slow for 1s, whilst fairly low power, would do a lot for it. >Why is this physical damage? It goes a long way to shutting her out of any magic penetration itemisation that she may need to deal any real damage in team fights, and is a huge part of why her offensive itemisation is severely limited. Additionally, a relatively small AP ratio would go a long way towards allowing her into offensive itemisation without creating the situation where she is one-shotting people. >I feel as though damage should be more evenly spread between the two abilities, again for satisfaction purposes. >Feels like the only reason to use it is to stack your E. **ON THE PASSIVE:** >Icebreaker currently takes up too much of her power budget. The concept and gameplay I like, the sheer amount of damage it does? Not so much. >The VFX on some skins, such as Bear Cavalry and Sabretusk are just ugly. **Good comments** >It succeeds in moving power away from her ultimate without leaving it feeling dissatisfying. The changes to her ultimate are generally good. >The passives create good gameplay, rewarding her for doing the things she wants to do (ice breaker) whilst giving her the tools to make them happen (frost armour).
I disagree that she "now lacks any means of offensive itemisation" because Icebreaker is so incredibly powerful with magic pen (proccing it twice with E > Ult is 50% max HP damage). So itemisation like Sorc Shoes > Guise > Void > Abyssal ought to still deal a ton of damage even against tanks. It gives her some leeway to build otherwise tanky as well so she can burst while still being able survive really well, especially due to passive.
: While I liked having the full AP Pig as an option, I'm fine losing it, but it very much feels like we don't have a solid "do more damage" option if you have a team of tanks and want to amp a little. Iceborn seems core, so a sheen item is sort of there, but I mean things like Titanic, Liandry's, Wits End... etc. They all sort of "had a place" in her build if you really needed that type of damage, as where now it feels there's less synergy with any of these items. Awful AP scalings on abilities, mixed damage types, having W be spammy while locking your ability to auto means we don't want to focus on on-hit items... it's a pile of catch 22's, and not one way to say "yes, this item has good synergy, I should build it". Now it's just "stack HP, stack resist, hope team can do everything else for me"
The "do more damage" option is now magic pen, since Icebreaker deals so much damage. You can proc it twice in quick succession with E > Proc > Ult > Proc as well. That's 50% max HP damage which is amplified a lot by pen. A mid/top lane build with Sorc Shoes / Guise / Void ought to be pretty powerful, so the option is still there.
: Thoughts on Sejauni
Her Q has changed -- its cooldown is lower at early ranks. Also, her ult is actually stronger than her old one against 1 or 2 champions. It's now a 2 second stun (regardless of rank) instead an an AoE 1.25 second stun (at rank 1). Her overall power level has gone way up to the point where she's clearly overtuned on the PBE currently. Between her potential 4 second stun, 50% max health shred (keep in mind that she can E > Ult for a double stun) and huge steroid on her passive. So in terms of balance I don't think anything needs improving (quite the opposite it seems). Perhaps E could use some usability tweaks but that's about it. Otherwise her new E is far stronger than the old one. A point and click 2 second stun (combined with the obscene damage of icebreaker) is just about one of the strongest abilities in league including ultimates. I do like the mechanic as well. I've played Sej since her release in 2011 and always thought it was fairly bland of an ability. There is no skill expression or counterplay to it, which always prevented it from being really powerful as well. It was also always kinda weak until you ranked it up, while the new E is strong even if you don't level it (same goes for Q now as well, since its base cooldown is now respectable at rank 1).
: Sejuani Rework - First Impressions
Q should stack Frost. AA range should be increased by 25. This should fix her E usability issues. Otherwise her numbers are too high in some places. E > Ult is a potential **4 second stun** dealing 50% max health damage. This is obscene. Standard combo is AA > W > AA > E > R > AA which when pulled off you can 1v1ing some of the strongest 1v1 champs in the game. Sejuani in the top lane is probably even better than jungle now. Her ult is a 2 second stun even at rank 1, just single target. It's actually often stronger than the old ult because of this. Q's base cooldown got reduced from 15 to 13 as well. This is also significant for anyone who's learned to play around the previous cooldown. Therefore if some usability changes are applied they better tone down numbers because she'll enter live being kinda broken, not gonna lie.
: Sejuani does more damage if she misses her ult
It's worth mentioning that you can E stun someone > auto for the % health damage. Then ult them immediately for a second stun. And then auto them again for the % damage. It's as powerful as it sounds... With this combo you can maximise damage and CC and are therefore heavily encouraged to do this. You do indeed lose damage on the primary target for ulting them immediately. But perhaps that's intended? It might be to lower her initiation power but make her stronger for dueling and skirmishes. This makes sense. Her ult is even stronger than her old ult when it comes to double-stunning (if pulled off, she's incredibly powerful like holy f***). But otherwise, it's obviously a nerf and feels balanced since it's all about risk vs. reward. You can stun faster for a lot less damage, or have a delayed stun with your E to make it even stronger on a single target. Honestly, it makes her immediately viable in the top lane. Between her double stun, her passive for short trades, and AD scaling on her W, we're looking at a really powerful top laner from the looks of things.
Rioter Comments
: [Preseason] Itemization Feedback Megathread (December 2nd PBE Build)
Sorry if slightly off-topic but I don't see anywhere else to post this... I never understand why Nomad's Medallion {{item:3096}} change in the preseason is never mentioned. It's ****ing terrible. It went from having a decent 7 HP5 and 9 MP5 to +25% HP5 AND MP5. So a support at level 6 will likely be gaining ~3 MP5 from it and 1.5 HP5? ...And it wasn't even used that much *before* the changes. Ancient Coin is absolutely s***. If any item balance needs to be discussed, it's this. Seriously, I've **NEVER** seen anyone mention how shafted this item got. Talisman is still alright (it has +100% of each stat) but the middle item is so incredibly bad. I understand this thread is about 4.21 changes but please Riot, how did you overlook this? It seems like an actual mistake -- you managed to convert all other regen items fairly closely but surely +50% (both stats) should have been on Medallion.
Rioter Comments
: Soraka Rework Feedback Thread
Are you sure these latest buffs (11/9) weren't too much!? I expected that if E got damage, it would only be on the snare, not the initial effect. Perhaps buff the damage to 80/120/160/200/240 (+0.6) but only make it proc on the snare? Otherwise she gets instant unavoidable damage which shouldn't be a part of her power budget. I do like the other changes though. The heal being so strong at rank 1 may make skill order quite interesting. And more MS is nice for her.
: Cassiopeia, Texture and Gameplay Update
I do feel that the damage values on the poisons (Q and W) are too lenient currently. Especially since you're trying to compomise the damage on W for a stronger slow, when Cassio tends to build Rylai's anyway. I also think you're putting way too much emposis on the movespeed bonus of Q when it's worse at early ranks and only better by 5% at max rank. And you're not even maxing it first so the payoff is worse. It actually feels like it's a nerf for an ability you're not maxing first anymore. Heck, I don't think 30-50% would be out of order if it decayed over time. So the utility "buffs" are pretty naff in my opinion. They don't really help her where it counts. In fact, I can't help but feel that Cassio's W needs a complete rework anyway. You're pretty much deleting the damage from it almost entirely. It's like, if you actually removed the damage altogether it wouldn't really make too much of a difference. It's *that* low. Make it pure utility or something. Slow enemies drastically (like 40%-60%) and/or make it so enemies poisoned by it take extra damage from Cassio's other abilities and/or autos. Or make it so Cassio heals herself or gains resistances when inside of it. Make it a cool ability because it's an extremely lame filler now that it becomes redundant with a Rylai's. I mean, what would it even do after that aside from proccing E? Otherwise buff her Q ratio to 0.5. 0.35 is far too weak for an ability of its nature. Syndra can get away with a spammable 40 mana 0.6 nuke in lane so I don't see why the threat of lane poke is that high. Or you could make the ratio 0.3/0.35/0.4/0.45/0.50 -- scaling much like the E. That works too. Or give it a mana scaling (5% bonus mana over the duration) that would allow it to scale lategame without buffing early. I'm also confused about the CDR on passive. Would make more sense to give her resistances or passive movespeed to solidify her as a close range DoT champ. Maybe even tenacity? As for her ult, I don't feel like the damage nerf is necessary either. But I'd take it over Q being butchered. Don't mean to sound negative but so far this rework seems incredibly held back. **You're trying to be far too restrictive on an extremely squishy champ with low mobility, who is also forced to say in close range. ** It's like, why play Cassio after this when you can play Ryze? He's tanky and does a similar thing. **In fact, the only real reason to pick her over Ryze on live is her early game power. Take that away from her and they become really similar. If she's the same thing as him but not tanky -- what is her niche now?** I enjoy Cassio so I hope this doesn't turn bad.
: The point of E is to use it as an escape or chase mechanism, the long cooldown is to prevent it from being spammed and use it when the best opportunity is needed for it, You can pretty much spam Q and W, so save E for when you're being chased or need to chase during a teamfight.
Isn't that just the same as saying: "Skarner's old E was great for healing if you use it for that! Just learn how to use it!". The concept of the ability is fine. Nobody's saying "Oh it's a movement buff ability so it SUCKS". Um, no. The reason it isn't good because the numbers on it are horribly under tuned for its cooldown or cost. It's as simple as that. You can't even use it to speed up an ally who isn't directly stood next to you. Which makes its application rather iffy. Lulu/Karma/Nami etc... can buff someone speed from afar -- so they can time it as needed. You can't even do that as Sona anymore, And the reward for actually moving towards them to apply it is just not good. ._. Janna's **passive** isn't really that much worse than Sona's new E. And that's on all the time with a much larger radius.
: All the sona's rework is the worst rework made
I personally like the direction of the rework. And chances are if she's underpowered at release, they'll tweak the aura ranges or something. So that's not a concern. Q and W seem pretty strong. And both are more engaging to use and offer more reward. E just feels really bad though. I'm not even sure if it's worth spending 65 mana early game to even cast it. Heck, it could cost 0 mana and I wouldn't have much incentive to use it other than to proc powerchord. Karma's shield is 40% MS at rank 1. So Sona's is a bit of a joke at 12 second cooldown.
Rioter Comments
: Newest Sona Update!
Biggest problem I have with Sona's rework is her E. When ranking it up, you gain 1% on the self movement speed and 1% on allies. That has to be the worst rank-up gain in the entire game. There is absolutely zero satisfaction to ranking the ability. Just look at Karma's E. It's a shield AND the movespeed buff adds 5% per rank. The movespeed scaling alone is way better than Sona's which is an ability solely focussed on movespeed. Also the ability itself is still awful unless you have tons of AP. Why on earth was its cooldown increased even more? It now has twice the cooldown of the original E and so as a whole the ability actually manages to be worse. And it was already bad.
: Quill Coat: New item Feedback
No it's fine. Spirit Stone gives back 3% of all damage dealt back as mana. At 10 mins this is around 1500 * 0.03 = 45 Mana for wolves. With the Quill Coat you're gaining 30 MP5 which means you need to take 7.5 seconds to clear the wolves to overtake the amount mana received from the Spirit Stone. For fast junglers, the Spirit Stone is better. For slower ones you'll gain more mana back than before, but that's a good payoff for being slower.
Rioter Comments
: > I don't really understand this argument. > ...this whole multiplier thing doesn't really seem important. > ...But each item effect needs to be rated on its own merits. Well, I don't understand why you don't understand. Multipliers are dangerous as a stat. Why do you think that AS and MS have constantly been nerfed. Crit and pen too. And yet, they are buffing the flat AD items because its less chaotic to the game than multipliers. An item that has a very specific effect like this should be balanced around the abilities that will trigger it. If 90% of all these trigger effects come with more multipliers, it should be taken into account.
By this logic, Nidalee must be a great support because of her AS boost, right? =S What about Zeke's Herald? Buying it gives 20 AD to your whole team! That Massive attack speed Tristana's Q gives? The synergy! And it's on 100% of the time! No abilities needed! Imagine buying this with a jax on your team... Holy. Multipliers, man! Let's not even get into Taric... Or Nunu. The buffs must be broken. Censor, as far as buffs go, isn't particularly noteworthy... and there are far other effects on items/champions that aren't gated by cooldowns/mana and do more. And a lot of them aren't even used or acknowledged that much. You're still far too distracted by the fact it only procs on heals/shields when many other similar effects are either auras or aren't target specific. What if in a teamfight you really need to shield your tank and can't afford to waste it on your AD just to give them the AS? There are so many factors that makes the limitations of this item apparent. But all in all, the passive of the item is okay. I might sound like it's useless but no, it can be strong. But Zeke's Herald is also insanely strong on paper -- it just isn't pick up because the stats aren't good for its cost. The point is that Censer is the same.
: I agree. It does feel really weak. Supports don't stick 100% to their adcs, and when nobody around you benefits from atkspd, what then? Wasted passive. I'd much rather an item that strengthens shields and heals, or grants an entropy-esque passive. That would actually be super cool, being able to cast an entropy passive on someone, and it even goes along with the idea of the item.
I think the concept is fine. It's just that the item has little identity about when and where a support should pick it up. It feels like a support *luxury* item that doesn't even fulfil that properly because the stats don't really benefit the support too much (the stat combo is nice, but the distribution is just weak), at least for its cost. It's in Twin Shadows / Morello's territory in why/where you'd want to pick it up. But it's weaker than those two items. =/
: I'd say that it is just you. From what I can see, you have a multiplier (attack speed) that functions on top of other multipliers that are available. i.e. Summoner Heal's MS buff, Kayle's MS buff, Karma's MS buff, Nidalee's AS buff, Alistair's AoE heal, Soraka's resistances, etc. You see, the flat additive is just the heal or the shield, but afaik only Taric has a plain heals that doesn't carry another multiplier with it. (he just has an armor aura that counts anyway)
I don't really understand this argument. All abilities have their use, but this whole multiplier thing doesn't really seem important. You might as well say that Locket's MR boost "synergises" with every defensive steroid out there such as shields etc... But each item effect needs to be rated on its own merits. If the attack speed buff was an Aura (like old Stark's) noone would care about the applications of certain abilities, and it's honestly just an illusion that it generates some cool combo when if it were an aura or complete passive effect, it wouldn't get as much attention. The passive on Argent is nice but so is Ohmwrecker's active, or is Zeke's passive, so was old Crucible's active. But noone uses/used them because they don't offer that much for the actual support for its cost. This item doesn't seem good because the passive, like I said, seems to be upping the cost of the item more than it should. The stats alone are worth little, especially when stacked on other items with mana regen and CDR. In the long run, supports will give this a pass because the passive doesn't outweigh what the item lacks. You'd think stats aren't important for the support -- when that's far from the truth. As a Karma player there is no reason for me to build this item over Morello's which gives much more AP for my shields to be stronger, offer more damage and CDR to boot. And Codex is a much stronger build path for her. ** Past support items which are too expensive for its stats have never been picked up, no matter how good the passive/active might be. This is no exception.**
Rioter Comments
: We tried Spellthief's Edge with mana restoration at some point. It's basically a feast or famine scenario when Mana Restoration is tied to the proc itself. If you are able to hit spells, you can hit more spells. However, if you can't hit spells, you lose out on the spell and mana for more spells. The item was much more binary that I would've liked it to be considering that it's already fairly binary to begin with.
That's a fair point, although in my own mind I would imagine proccing the tribute mostly with basic attacks. Especially in Sona's case, or Karma to proc her passive. Zyra and Annie have high AA range to proc it too. Nami has her E. The way I saw it would be that AA synergy works with all champion that would **want** to buy it, which means to safely proc it, you don't have to land an ability. And isn't tribute not wasted if you miss a spell? The charge should remain I imagine. So even if you'd miss every spell -- you only need to AA 3 times every 30 seconds. It seems like as long as the player is semi-active, they would gain X mana every 30 seconds regardless -- it's just a more favorable way to add mana regen without directly increasing the stat. But I'm sure you've tested a bunch of things and perhaps it isn't desirable. Although Tribute, the way you've worded it, shouldn't be difficult to fully proc unless in extreme passive environments -- in which I probably wouldn't buy spellthief's to begin with. Missing spells is par the course but from what I see it has little effect on Tribute for champions that would buy it. I actually don't see it as binary -- since trading autos seems to fit the environment where Spellthief's would be present. But that's just the way I see it. I'm sure there are many methods to improve the item (or others) regardless.
: [Planned 4.3] Itemization Changes (Boots / Duo Lane Gold Items / DShield / Ruby Crystal)
A think another interesting idea for Spellthief's would be be to add mana restore onto tribute (like 10 mana per hit -- the same as damage; as in the bonus damage gets converted into mana for yourself too). If only because I see people still concerned with Coin being better for mana regen in the long run which by itself might make it more desirable. Coin still has better upfront regen which is always important early on (in regards to health). Targon's has good health restore too. Spellthief is the only one that lacks that so bonus mana regen in the early game (which requires being active as opposed to passive regen) would be really nice. Only real downside is that it could make the Tribute passive a bit bloated. Just an idea that I can see really working in case Coin is still more desirable. As it stands, one of the best candidates for Spellthief's would be {{champion:43}}. But it's still a tough choice since the mana regen of coin just ends up being better -- which is essential for a champion that constantly uses abilities like that. I do feel that mana regen could be Spellthief's niche at least in very early laning. The health restore/regen on coin may just offset the desire for it even with the changes.
: Why hasn't Pantheon been disabled yet?
It's impossible to have a normal game in the PBE most of the time. I just want to test. Not have to deal with abuse cases for constantly one-sided matches. Quite frustrating.
: [Taric] Gemcraft vs. Shattter - Anti-synergy
The only change Taric really needs right now is a base mana regen buff. A massive problem see is that he really wants to go Executioner's > Martyr line, but he then forgoes the mana regen from Philo's that he would normally have. This makes mana a massive issue for him until you buy say, a Frozen Heart or IBG. A base AS buff would be nice too, although I think it would be a good idea if Dazzle is changed to 16 CD at all ranks rather than 18/17/16/15/14. Makes his early better but less abusive late game with CDR (assuming his base AS were to go up).

Dunal

Level 30 (PBE)
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