: New versions of Zombie Ward and Ghost Poro arrive on PBE
The general effect of the new versions of Zombie Ward and Ghost Poro looks pretty cool. What I dislike is the fact that there's offensive stats or effects tacked onto the runes **again**. A common feeling is already that League has too much damage, and these rune overhauls want to add even more?
: Marksman and AD Itemization Changes coming to PBE shortly
Question regarding new {{item:3508}} on our favourite bird {{champion:133}} : Will the passive's ultimate buff proc for her at all? If yes, will it proc on first R cast (shouldn't, imo) or on changing back to Quinn (which should be the way it works, imo)?
Rioter Comments
: Runes Reforged PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread
Feedback: **Dark Harvest:** I like the window elongation at 100 stacks, but 300 seconds seems rather excessively long. That's long enough for, for an example in a splitpush situation, your opponent to die, you to collect a charge and then use said charge on the very same opponent as a greeting for him coming back. Personally, I feel like 60-90 seconds would be more appropriate - long enough a window to proc it fairly reliably (collecting stacks from cannon minions), but short enough so catching the DH user out will have them indeed caught pants-down. **Press the Attack:** I liked the old version of the keystone more - this one feels like an unholy crossing between a 3-hit effect and Deathfire Grasp's active. As such, it is an effect that will be far more suited for bursters with a quick 3-attack pattern (Ekko, Irelia, Jax, Shyvana, Lucian) than it will be for sustained damage dealers with the objective of taking down a single heavy target. Especially given that this version amplifies damage from all sources. This damage amplification for all sources will also make it almost a must-have keystone for teams, to amplify the ADC's and mid laner's damage patterns. Somewhat like Ardent Censer is on patch 7.18 on World's. From its initial description, I rather see it as a keystone that is about personal offensive power, as you'd want it when you need to take down a single heavily defensive target. I wonder if the effect would be more toward that end if it was giving you (and only you) adaptive penetration against the specific target you procced the effect on. Anyways, if this version ships as is, I can foresee you reworking it in a couple of patches. **Fleet Footwork:** Love how this keystone goes around one of the big issues with its direct predecessor, Warlord's Bloodlust. Instead of being about the heal with a slight speedboost, it is more like a speedboost with a slight heal attached. I figure that ADCs will not be able to forego Lifesteal till their fourth item now. **Resolve:** I don't understand why the Resolve bonus is so much inferior to the boni given by the other trees, especially since you increased the benefits of the other trees rather pronouncedly. I mean, I get that giving a massive HP boost at level 1 is dangerous (to put it mildly), but getting less than half the effective gold value out of your primary tree bonus plain old sucks. Wouldn't it be possible to have the set bonus have a per-level component, in this case? Specifically, one that acts like the growth factor with its non-linear level distribution? Other than that, the reason that the tree features more focus on HP than on resistances is that health is a primary, universal defensive stat, whereas Armor and MR are reactive stats that are best bought as an answer to a specific in-game situation?
: Intuitively that makes some sense, but Titanic gains at least some defensive value (obviously loses some due to item synergies) relative to its peers by not being a victim of the Health nerfs that the split items got, so I'm hesitant. I'll be thinking about Titanic and whether we need to do something for it (or perhaps Ravenous).
Maybe as a contingency plan while keeping an eye on Titanic's performance post-midseason, if you're not sure if it needs something directly? That's how we do it in setting up a new reaction in the lab...
: > Banshees just has a too low CD late game. 8 sec is crazy. Go up to 50-15 sec CD. Also more CDR added? What is this? Will every item in the future have 10% CDR? I can see the 10% making sense for casters but why do you always push everyone to 40% CDR in this game now? Not even a choice to get CDR becaus it is everywhere. It has strictly the same stats as Abyssal Scepter did, whose stats it is replacing. Speaking more toward CDR itemization for tanks, I didn't think it was right that Spirit Visage be the HP/MR item to go for when you wanted CDR (because items should feel good for their unique Passives/Actives), so all the HP/MR items now also have CDR to eliminate the need to choose between them for that _particular_ reason. Edits because I instinctively just clicked save after the last paragraphs: > Cinderhulk/Sunfire. With the +0.5 MR per lvl these items will already get nerfed. Nerfing Sunfire then also by ~30% dmg when you finish it (~lvl 9) is huge. Change it from 7+2lvl to 9+2lvl at least. Still a nerf early and mid game with a tiny buff late game. This is an intentional design choice aimed at making tanks have less damage threat overall, and especially less ambient, unnoticed threat. If it's too much a nerf, I'd rather compensate it elsewhere, but I think the item will still be a powerful option in this world. > Deadmans: Why do you need to lose stacks when AAing but you don't get any effect? Is that rly needed? Is it that strong after the changes? You lose stacks when AAing because we're trying to sharpen the effects of the items. In this case, DMP applies small, repeated damage that can add up over the course of fights, and this aims to make it specifically better at helping its users do what they bought it for, which is getting into range of targets. Tuning could possibly be off, but I do think the stack gain buff really does go understated here. > GA: Expensive for these stats but it will be a huge counter to every AD assassin. This is its intended use case, so that's good to hear. If it's only bought in extreme cases, that may be okay, as long as it's clear when those times are and it feels good (or at least reasonable) to pick up when those times occur. It's probably less good if it's a part of early core builds regularly. > Randuins seems to be nerfed and it was already not one of the good armor items. Most people tend to think this. I agree it does look underwhelming, though it's also cheaper than the other options, which I think is easy to undervalue. > So Warmogs, even when better, will probably stay useless. This is possible, but definitely don't want to run into a "League of Warmogs" game state post release either, so I'm trying to not oversolve on it for now. > Adaptive Helm: Strange and interesting, but I think ti will create problems. Swain, Singed, Kata, Karthus and many others will lose too much dmg through it, while it is a worse Abyssal normally. So it has a clear niche and is not an OPTION but either you won't get it or you have to get it based on the enemy and its strength. Making choices like these tend to be what make the item shop interesting, similar to how Randuin's should feel like an especially attractive pickup in games where they have a bunch of AAers. But there may be something I'm not considering on Adaptive Helm. > Why not use Aegis of the Legion for its build path? Armor/MR. Would make its path smoother and gives Aegis a second upgrade option. The original build path was actually Aegis+Cloth+Null, but this adds up to 55 Armor/MR, so when we reduced it to 40/40, we had to change the recipe. This has some good stuff to its build path as well, however. Since people that are used to going GA on tanks will instead be able to pick this up (since it shares its old build path). Also, several playtesters reported they stopped buying Locket and going for the selfish power of Stoneplate instead on a whim, and that they regretted it every time. So I didn't want this to compete heavily with Locket. Thanks for the feedback!
> Most people tend to think this. I agree it does look underwhelming, though it's also cheaper than the other options, which I think is easy to undervalue. I think that this is part of the problem. Most people don't really appreciate tank items that are cheaper for the sake of being cheaper. Personally, I'd prefer Randuin's with the higher cost, and something extra to make it worthwhile. Maybe the return of the AS slow on the active? Like with Amumu's new passive and its interaction with Curse of the Sad Mummy. I don't remember if you were already with Riot back then, but in S2, Randuin's active effect also included a guaranteed application of the passive's AS slow. This made a lot of sense back then, as the passive effect had a proc chance and was not working on every auto, like it does now. In exchange, the AS slow was 35%, instead of the current 15%.
: I wouldn't say that BotRK is currently doing any of the jobs we'd like it to, but Marksman items have been distorted by a few other adjacent systems in recent history, most notably flat pen items and the state of Fervor. Still on the radar, but we're also interested to see what happens as we make improvements in those systems.
Apologies for going OT here, but since you are on the topic of items: Are you, by chance, looking at Rageblade one of these preseason patches? Feel like it could use a bit of change, and reverting Kog'Maw must have given you some leeway for it. Like, keeping the Recurve Bow's AS on the completed item without a need to stack?
: Position Preference In Testing
One important question: Is is possible to leave the field for what you don't want empty? So you could actually say that you have no weakest position?
: MYMU Annie, Fiddle, Veigar Discussion
> **Incinerate (W)** > > - This is mostly just a design paradigm shift > - No longer cheats - ie: if you flash out of it before the cast finishes, it won't hit you anymore > - Range 560 >>> 600 Sorry for asking a not directly related question, but is this also implemented for Cho and Mordekaiser?
: While this is true, it also has some unfortunate side effects; lifestealing in a timefight, while annoying, can be easily dealt with, but easily accessible lifesteal makes poking AD champs difficult since they can just attack stuff to get it back.
True, true. Lifesteal in lane can be rather painful.
: [Planned - 6.9] Mana x MP/5 x AP x MR Item Pass [Updated - 4/11/2016]
Some feedback after playing around with the changes a bit on the PBE. Note that these are mostly describing how the items and changes feel: - {{item:3145}} : I am scared of the effect this item will have. The burst, especially in combination with Thunderlord's, feels pretty overwhelming. Especially since it is super cheap and fuels AP ratios to a decent degree as well. - Tear feels supergood - you actually notice how your manapool feels extended, and Meditation keeps your tank filled well enough to never feel completely useless. - Frostcannon's sound effect feels off - too loud, and not really fitting the item too much. - Using Rocket Belt looks funny on a 6-stack Cho-Gath :D - Anivia majorly like new Morellonomicon - EDIT: New Abyssal Sceptre feels pretty good on tanky APs. The CdR helps a lot.
: So the issue is less that spellvamp is difficult to deal with because of numbers or something, it's because there's a wide variety of spells to vamp off of, making it difficult to balance spellvamp so that it feels good as a lane sustain option, via Ori Q-W or something, while not making it overbearing as a burst healing standpoin, via Veigar ult, or vice versa? I guess all of the baggage that comes with this reality (AD champs have much easier sustain than AP champs) is just unfortunately something that has to be dealt with, then. Damn.
> I guess all of the baggage that comes with this reality (AD champs have much easier sustain than AP champs) is just unfortunately something that has to be dealt with, then. Hm. As far as I understand it, AD-focused champion, as a general thing, are more about sustained damage patterns that require you to stay in the fight than AP-focused champions. Exceptions on the AP side tend to bring their own, kit-intrinsic sustain (Vlad, Zac, Cassiopeia, Ahri, Morgana), allowing a lot easier tuning. The downside of kit-intrinsic sustain is that it is not as gated as item-based sustain - for items, you generally pay a (quite literal) cost of opportunity to go for sustain stats, whereas kit-intrinsic sustain is virtually always active.
: Those are temp icons - we'll get the new icons and more final names as we get closer to release.
: A big issue I am seeing is a huge hit to the amount of available AP. We just lost 80 AP from standard items to the nether. I think to compensate rabadons is going to need a buff to the passive's ratio as well as a price reduction so that mages can get the damage they need to function even so this is going to majorly shift the standard power curve to a much late point in the game where mages by nature are already falling off.
> A big issue I am seeing is a huge hit to the amount of available AP. That is true. However, looking at it, you also have between 0.2 - 0.3 AP ratio (+ base damages) added with the new Hextech items.
: > The lowered amount of AP available will make the already weak late game scaling of mages that much worse. It will also reduce the value of Rabadon's Deathcap as the passive will have less AP to work with A couple of major points here: 1. I'll be looking at a series of changelists to see where I can add gold back into these set of changes - mostly due to Morello looking somewhat weak compared to alternatives. 2. In a world where item prices are high and base AP is high - we've actually just seen Mages not been able to complete or buy Deathcap, leaving it out of the possible item builds entirely. We know that Deathcap is at a fair price for the amount of AP we want it to be giving out and the multiplicative power of it. More than anything 'end game AP' is capped by the inability to go after high AP items because your core needs are so expensive to get. 3. I'm fairly certain that this problem isn't due to the AP cap of mages - it's to the vastly inflated gold cap that MR has had since the season began. Basically, the high-end defense potential of fighters and various classes have gone up incredibly in terms of hitting mages - and these items have been tuned to be able to be purchased fairly early without a ton of tradeoffs (they are all fairly generic in terms of defense.) AP and MR will always be a damage race - but inflating both values continuously just means that everyone else in the game blows up at a touch. It's unsustainable to keep inflating the arms race. > In the end, the most important thing to me is I don't want to lose the fun, active playstyle of 40/45% CDR with mana regen on utility and siege mages. They are the epitome of what a mage truly should be (in my opinion), and this is such an active playstyle that I don't want to disappear. In practice, we've found that this playstyle is pretty much only fun and active for the person who is the artillery mage rather than anyone on the enemy team. It's 'active' in that you are casting a bunch of spells. It's incredibly passive as you don't have to *do* anything to succeed other than fling spells at your opponents while you are farther than they can possibly engage on. If you want to spec into this kind of playstyle - Tear of the Goddess should be the Mana item that you go down as that provides for the same type of circumstances at a more reasonable disadvantage - the lack of defensive stats and the fact that it turns on later in the game. The shift to Flat Mana also makes it a lot easier for us to provide CDR - as we know that - even if we grant you more CDR - there is a balancing factor always in play. With Regeneration, flat CDR just means more harass uptime. See also: Aram Poke Comp.
> 1. I'm fairly certain that this problem isn't due to the AP cap of mages - it's to the vastly inflated gold cap that MR has had since the season began. Basically, the high-end defense potential of fighters and various classes have gone up incredibly in terms of hitting mages - and these items have been tuned to be able to be purchased fairly early without a ton of tradeoffs (they are all fairly generic in terms of defense.) > > AP and MR will always be a damage race - but inflating both values continuously just means that everyone else in the game blows up at a touch. It's unsustainable to keep inflating the arms race. Finally, someone goes out there and says it. Currently, there is access to MR levels not seen since S2, when Force of Nature was a thing (RIP). Only that nowadays, the high MR values also come with high HP (only items with more HP than SV/BV on live are Warmog's and Frozen Mallet). I like what you're doing to these two defensive MR items, tbh.
: > If an item/champion/ or stat in the game does not have it's place in a higher tier of play and is only used within casual play then I think it should be balanced and maintained around that very idea of casual play rather than discarding it for not being used. It's not that the stat or item had a place in high tiers of play or low tiers of play. It's that this stat in the itemization system has created situations where we have to make sure that the early games of any characters who had any potential access to it basically terrible. Effectively, what this means is that in order to balance it for high tiers of play - it has to be absolutely terrible in low tiers of play. This wasn't 'Spell Vamp' wasn't balance-able at higher tiers of play - this was - Well, that means that this champion has absolutely crush or get destroyed in the first 1200 Gold of the game - because otherwise, they have (duo) infinite resources. We've tried to fix this in various forms over 4 years - but the accumulated damage to champions thus far hasn't been worth it. Spell Vamp via the item system has a serious problem in that it becomes linked to gold.
> Well, that means that this champion has absolutely crush or get destroyed in the first 1200 Gold of the game - because otherwise, they have (duo) infinite resources. Then, the difference between Spellvamp on Revolver and Omnivamp on Gunblade and Death's Dance is in the time point you get access to it? Btw, are you happy with Death's Dance's performance atm?
Rioter Comments
: Quinn PBE Feedback Thread
Hello Repertoir, this looks...interesting is the right word, I believe. Hmm. Gut responses: - I am more attached to the blind than Skystrike. Did you try to have it only blind the primary target? - Why does the passive's availability scale with crit chance, of all stats? - I can also see why you don't want her to be a strong duelist with that ult. Wowzers. Will follow this up with more detailed feedback after extensive testing. One question: Are base stat changes included in this rework?
: Garen PBE Changelist and Feedback thread
{{champion:86}}: The ugly: - **The harsh HP/lvl nerf:** I don't really understand the reason for it. Isn't Garen supposed to be a big, beefy juggernaut? Especially since Darius' HP gets buffed... - **Courage's passive:** By its nature, that ability is a one-point wonder for Garen. Wouldn't it be better if you could build up to the max value (30) at rank 1, and later ranks increase the build-up speed by a lot? The bad: - **Decisive's Silence Duration:** It is Garen's only CC effect, and the one thing he has to make sure mobile enemies eat a big Judgement if they make the mistake of getting too close. The good: - **Judgement's changes:** I love this for a Garen who builds Black Cleaver. - **The whole Villain mechanic:** Amazing idea, and it might be something that makes Garen really an option for a team looking to shut down a potential single-champion snowball in the later stages of the game.
: For this particular item, not too concerned. If you have to run at opponents to catch them, its stats + strategic mobility + closing mobility + a bit of on-hit power. If you can gap close easily, it's much less efficient - you don't get much closing mobility out of it. For the juggernaut items overall, there will definitely be some problem cases of champions poaching the new items and doing totally inappropriate things with them - something we'll be keeping an eye on. That's not to say that any poaching would be a problem, just gonna have to keep an eye out for gap-close champs out-juggernauting juggernauts, or just being generally overpowered. There'll be a bit of an adjustment period.
{{champion:14}} : He'll probably benefit from the juggernaut itemization as well. But that fits - isn't he even called "The Undead Juggernaut"? :D {{champion:102}} : Oh god. {{champion:254}} : She's on the more "light" (vs heavy) side of the spectrum, but she'll still make good use out of the Jugger's items - especially Hydra and DMP. Also, Vi loves to be able to casually stroll into range to hit stuff and save Q and R for chasing. {{champion:39}} : Sterak's Gage. 25% more base AD and resistance to being bursted? Sold. Overall, I really like the new items. And the general gist of the reworks, too - although I am sceptical towards certain aspects of the implementation on some of them.
: Have you tried a low-cooldown active that works essentially like the pulsing mechanism does now? This would make it more rewarding to properly string in abilities with the AS active, instead of the barely existant satisfaction of the new. I also wonder if the new AS actually fixes the potential problem with the item. It seems strange for an item made to counter mages or magic-heavy champs, also provides a staple benefit to a mage or magic-heavy champ. No other item in the game does this (No item provides AD and also Armor since Atma's is gone). When I buy, say, Maw of Malmortius, it is because I am facing magic-heavy enemies that I wish to gain survival against. This does not necessarily apply for Abyssal though. Katarina, for example, might still benefit more of (the old) AS because of its MR reducing passive, over another MP item like Sorc Boots or Liandry's, or an item made for survivability. On the other hand, it provides perfectly the stats needed for a given situation, and thus has no better itemization (why buy Liandry's & Spirit Visage as a mage, against a mage, top or mid, when Abyssal provides it all in a single slot?) For actual tanks that can use both stats, like Nautilus, Chogath or Zac, the MR shredding is somewhat lost on the champion himself, but instead meant for teammates. This is problematic because in most cases, allies will not readily calculate and anticipate their tactics with an ally's Abyssal Scepter in mind. If Naut, Cho, or Zac would actually want to viably benefit from AS's passive, then a full or semi-full AP build is necessary, but completely unintuitive. Although it is an ill comparison, an item that provides AD, Armor and Armor Penetration would be difficult to balance or keep viable. Any tank that uses AD, Armor and Armor Pen, will almost never benefit from such an item as much as an AD carry like Riven or Vayne, or an assasin like Zed or Talon, because it provides every stat they need to survive and also dish out damage. There will be no choice involved. This is why I suggest something along the lines of providing more defense over providing more aggressive power. A few suggestions would be: - A passive that returns magic damage (flat or %, idk) to either the enemy who dealt it to you, or all enemies nearby. The "all enemies nearby" will make AS retain its ability to help in AOE situations. This item is somewhat the Thornmail of AP. - An active that will negate the next magic ability you receive and provide a magic shield equal either to a flat amount or % of damage that you would have received. The best part of this active is that it is immensely rewarding to succesfully predict a huge nuke thats about to happen, like Syndra's ult, or, if your opponent activates this item, also immensely rewarding to trigger the active on some trivial ability like an Ezreal's W. This would make it perhaps too similar to Banshee's Veil though. - An passive that provides a out-of-combat regenerating magic shield. Simple way to increase survivability while also inciting intelligent strategic choices. - An active that will soak up magic damage for a while then return it to nearby enemies, provided the champion survives the damage. This will thus make it unviable on champs like Kat, LB, Fizz, etc, and more viable on tank's who intend to tank magic damage. - An active that provides a magic shield equal to either a flat amount and/or % of health (or any other stat that is NOT AP), and deals that amount of damage to nearby enemies if the shield is destroyed. Basicaly a magic version of Sion's shield. The idea of not giving it AP as the scaling stat is that it will end up exactly like the current AS (being bought by mages to fight mages, instead of AP tanks/fighters to fight mages). All of these will remedy the problem of Abyssal being staple some mages, even though the extra MR isnt needed, or because the stats are precisely needed, and thus no itemization choice is involved. Also, Rumble will still love these items.
Your suggestions are essentially: - Magic damage {{item:3075}} : That item is a no-go for a reason. Read more here: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4772320 (JMBC's post, 4th from the top) - Essentially, Banshee's as a active item. Problematic. - Interesting. - {{item:3180}} - {{item:3156}} / {{item:3155}} 's passive with a twist as an active.
: Abyssal Scepter Context
A few things: 1. New(ly shelved) Abyssal's build path looks rather...derpy, tbh: {{item:1057}} + {{item:1052}} + {{item:1028}} Is there a particular reason not to use Bami's as a component for the HP/burn? From my PoV, it looks like a perfect fit, as it already has the HP and a similar aura burn component to Abyssal - except that it has a continous burn instead of the pulses of the new design. But is that really an argument against using Bami's? 2. Why do APs need a good AP/MR item? And can you elaborate on what kind of AP/MR item that would be? The problem I necessarily see with that stat combination lies in its binary nature in symmetrical match-up (AP vs AP). If it is strong enough as an item, it gives you the perfect tool against your opponent - increasing your damage while decreasing the damage that said opponent deals to you. Problem with that is, the same is actually true for your opponent, making the match-ups rather onedimensional and prone to easy snowballing by whoever completes said item first. And wasn't this exactly what was seen when Athene's was so strong on mid laners in the past seasons? Additionally, above argument against AP/MR was also brought forth as the reason for not having a strong AD/Armor item (or even none at all nowaday :P ).
: Focus-empowered Q attacks are 5 arrows per attack. Each arrow applies Black Cleaver, so yeah, she can put 5 stacks of Black Cleaver on per AA while it is active.
Holy f*xxx*ing s*xx*t. That's pretty mean. Can't wait to see if practical work holds up to theoretical madness here.
: Ashe Update Feedback Thread
{{item:3071}} : Does her new Q apply its passive effect once or with every arrow? Essentially, the question is whether the Q is coded as seperate instances of damage (a la Lulu passive) or simply an on-hit effect with a fancy animation. Base stats: Unchanged? Don't think so - at least her high AS/level (AS growth factor) should be decreased if she gets an AS steroid into her kit.
: Since it no longer has any flat pen, it's just a more expensive "tanky" Last Whisper. Almost nobody will buy it now. The only champions who will are the ones that can't burst anyway, so they need tankiness and CDR. Garen, and maybe Vi, might actually use this item. It's sort of the same as that one item nobody cares or thinks about. It's called Zeke's Herald. Has lots of health, cdr, and ad. Plus you offer stats to your team. (similar to reducing the armor of enemies for allies.) But nobody uses it because it doesn't offer the one who buys it enough stats. It wouldn't be too crazy to say that this version of the Black Cleaver would suffer the same fate. That aside, you can say it benefits itemization, but after this change Brutalizer will only build into Youmuus or Warrior enchant. It'll have the same problem as Phage in that it technically only builds into one item. My advice? Take the Black Cleaver on live and make it build out of Brutalizer and Phage. Lower it to 45 AD and add the Rage passive. Job done.
Zeke's has really crap stats for its price, though. This thing has more HP, more AD and both the passives over Zeke's Herald.
: They did remove the raw armor pen... so I mean the power is still there but just takes longer. It's more useful on tanky bruisers like Darius or Garen.
This. Effectively, the Armor Shred (Cleave is Tiamat's passive) is only better against targets with 200 or more Armor: 5% of 200 is equal to 10, which is the amount of flat penetration the live Cleaver gives. And this item gives a way to deal with the current trend in increased tankiness without vastly increasing the power of ADCs themselves or AD assassins.
: Bug with Cassiopeia's E
Saw this, too. But I did not see any real discernable pattern. It did neither depend on distance to target nor on the type of poison (Q or W) nor on whether E got the killing blow or not. No evident pattern to me.
: Tanks on Fire - Incoming Cinderhulk + Gromp changes
Question: Is Cinderhulk supposed to be cheaper than the other enchants? Because currently, it only costs 2000 gold total as {{item:3725}} for me. Second, the tooltip of Trailblazer says 1.5 extra gold per big monster, where it should say 30 gold extra per big monster.
: new ap item available for testing soon!
I see a huge flaw in the concept of this item: The stats (a boatload of raw AP and good MS) make the item a very nice buy for long-ranged siege/poke mages, whose range allows them to build relatively glasscannon. And for those guys, movement speed is the one stat they had hardly any access to, to prevent them from eternally staying out of range and just throw stuff at you with no way of retaliation. Basically, what that item currently does is to give an optimal way to attain a MS boost to champion who were previously denied such a thing for a very good reason - uncatchable bursters and pokers are not healthy for the game. At all. Previously, AP champions have access to two bonus MS items: {{item:3100}} and {{item:3023}}, both of which feature distinct drawbacks for MS they give: {{item:3100}} requires you to auto-attack regularily to make good use of the Spellblade effect, forcing you to get a lot closer to the fight. And usually, you'd want to get more than one proc in, making you stay close. {{item:3023}} is fairly slot-inefficient as an item for a main AP caster champion in the team. The new item does not possess these drawbacks, which is why I am really not fond of it. Potential abuse candidates, imo: {{champion:76}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:161}} . {{champion:7}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:103}} . {{champion:4}} I'd really like to see the MS replaced with CdR - which fits the concept of the item, too, as it stacks on spells, and CdR = more spells. P.S.: {{champion:133}} . Didn't you look at improving her AA smoothness some time ago? (sorry for sidetracking).
: not enough potions to start the game/ healing mechanic on machete not geed enough
Yes, that is pretty much intended. Also, if you don't want the blue buff Smite reward, don't smite blue buff? On top of that, you should try a different jungle route, maybe - starting at a buff in not necessary nor particularily recommended at the moment. The Krugs or Gromp offer a good smite reward for your first clear.
: [Preseason] Itemization Feedback Megathread (November 11th PBE Build)
{{item:3091}} from {{item:3140}} : Just no. Bruisers should not have easy access to complete CC removal tools. {{item:3116}} : Too much stuff built into one item. Also, we don't need another chalice upgrade. And the problem currently is less with immobile mages not having enough power, but more with the fact that mobility does not consume enough of certain champions' power budget and with the fact that they have an identity crisis: - A mage with mobility is an assassin (Ahri) - An immobile mage with long-ranged spells is a poker (Xerath, who sees play) - An immobile mage with short CDs is a sustained damage dealer (Syndra, Ryze) - An immobile mage with high utility is a support (Zyra, Annie) - An immobile mage with long CDs is...a burst mage? Except that assassins do the burst job better and with more flexibility in their target choice. Hosing a teamfight with AoE damage to get everyone low, but not killing anyone is way less efficient than concentrating your fire on a single target and take those targets out in the order of priority. {{item:3508}} Nr #3: If the item doesn't have Lifesteal, it has no place in even a caster ADCs build. But yes, it could use something to have to do with mana sustain earlier in the build path. Malady: Interesting idea. Personally, I feel like there should a base-tier on-hit item, as building pure AS without something to multiply is still going to be a noob trap.
Rioter Comments
  Rioter Comments
: 2.1 k isn't bad for a ranged champion, especially one with high mobility.
Isn't bad? Thats like, motherf***ing huge. Seriously.
Rioter Comments
: [Preseason] Itemization Feedback Megathread (October 24th PBE Build)
* Your idea for icon clarity is awesome, and probably what will be implemented in the end. Remember, though, that the current icon are supposed to be placeholders. * Smite can't become a Machete active, especially not with how powerful the Jungle Enchants currently are - otherwise, you'd see 2-3 of those every game. I agree with the assessment that those jungle items are currently packing too much bang for their buck, though. * Why not make the upgrades "real" end-tier items, with appropriate pricing (2800 to 3000) and power (from a combination of stats and passive/potentially active effects)? With Conservation gone and the "Jungler" passive not upgrading further with the enchant, I don't see the specific necessity to keep the jungle items cheap and powerful - especially since no one forces a jungler to upgrade his jungle item first.
: So, as for their gold efficiency - they initially were priced out as an efficient chunk of stats at the 1500 gold price point. This really hits the spot for a certain kind of player mindset. If you're thinking of the gold efficiency of each purchase on the margin, as some players do (and as is probably actually correct for winning games), then as long as it's a gold-efficient use of that 1500 gold, you'll be happy with the purchase. However, a lot more players think in terms of final items and full builds, not in terms of marginal power gain per gold spent. The previous versions of the enchantments were really unappealing for those players and were making the jungle items a hard sell in the first place. Part of it comes down to the fact that the Jungler passive is effectively valueless after a certain point in the game and the Smite augments lose value as the game goes on (though none of them actually hit 0 value late in the game). We went for the higher (frankly bonkers) gold efficiency in order to make the final items (2250 total gold) feel like a good buy to a player considering end builds. It does push cost effectiveness for that 1500 gold to a crazy point, but you can have at most one of these items per jungler per game, and it's really making up for a bunch of non-combat power that you had previously spent, so we're ok with it. That said, I'm looking into a few ways we can get some of the power deferred if we need to, e.g. the old Spirit of the Spectral Wraith passive where the item doesn't hit full power til some time after you actually buy it. No promises and we'd be ok going forward with the current power level, but it's something I'm looking into. As for build paths - I'm considering exactly how to smooth those out (particularly Juggernaut) today/tomorrow. Kindlegem seems promising for Juggernaut, just have to figure out what the final stats for the item should actually be.
> That said, I'm looking into a few ways we can get some of the power deferred if we need to, e.g. the old Spirit of the Spectral Wraith passive where the item doesn't hit full power til some time after you actually buy it. No promises and we'd be ok going forward with the current power level, but it's something I'm looking into. One thing if you do this: Please, do not make it like it is currently, with one item giving its full benefit instantly and the others scaling on additional gold (buying more bonus HP) or time (clearing camps). Either all of them or only one as a strategic option (Devourer).
: 1. Most tank junglers are even more horrible now. No sustain, long fights in the jungle, really bad mana costs. Offensive junglers are better, especially in the mid and late game clears, where tank junglers need a huge amount of mana and time while offensive junglers clear fast, with less mana costs and at the same time, they also lose less HP because of the shorter fight duration. 2. Golems and Wight camp will be the new starting options, because there you can still get some help from bot or top lane, which can allow you to clear two camps before red or blue instead of only one. The timer would need to be 2:00 to prevent that from happening or more early, around 1:45-1:50 to allow 2 camps to be cleared in time with or without help. No real disadvantage for the jungler, because red or blue will only spwan at 2:30. Till then you actually have some free time. 3. Sustain is not good enough. Probably 10-12 HP reg when fighting in the jungle and 15 on the upgrade. Especially important for tanks. 4. The new extra buffs for junglers: A nice idea, but I don'ht think it is a good one for SR. It makes the map more asymetric, giving blue side a better offensive bot lane gank power and red a counter gank bot lane, and vise versa when ganking top lane. Same with worlfs and wraiths. The duration is too low and the advantage too small to make useful to get and then run to the other side of the map to use it. Reduce it to 2 buffs (the ghost wolve and ghost bird then and the poison armor for golems and wigth). 5. River wraiths: A nice idea, but way too powerful and hard to really fight for. The one that kills is has a pretty long vision buff around drake or baron and a nice speed buff. I like the speed buff for roaming, but the vision is too much. It could be ok to reduce the vision down to the circles buff area (+50-100 range?). But it should not directly scout baron/drake and a big part of the jungle entrance. Some things that don't have to do with the jungle: 1. New Stillwaters Powerup: Good thing, but you should probably channel a crystal for 3-5 seconds to get it and not run over it. 2. Mana reg: 25/50(/75)% on most items is too low. 30/50/75(/100)% should work way better. You currently get 3/7/10/12/(20) mana reg on most items. A lot of AP champs start around 6-8 mana reg and get to 15-18. That would mean only 1.8-2.4 at lvl 1 and 2.7-3.3 around lvl 6 from 30% more base mana reg. The later values with 50% and 75% are around 7.5-9 (50%) and 11-13.5 (75%) mana reg at lvl 18. So mana reg would still be lower in most cases. Only some champs (e.g. GP and Jayce) get up to 20 mana reg late game, or champs that don't build much mana reg. Another option would be, to make faerie charm cost 300g and give 50% mana reg. and go on from that point. But maybe you want to change mana reg on champs and runes/masteries overall, while reducing the effect of mana reg items a bit.
For 1 and 3: I'd really like them to implement a mastery (tier 5, meaning, deep in the tree) for each of the three mastery to amplify play styles. For example, in the defensive tree, the mastery could increase the Jungle Item sustain's base amount by 20% for each second you remain in combat with the camp (possibly with a really high cap, like 300%/15 seconds). That somewhat mitigates the damage tanks take from the epic, long duration battles with Murkwolves and Razorbeaks in the later parts of the game. For 2: I think that you really should have your Smite for Red or Blue, especially in light of the big HP/Mana bonus that thing gives. So, clearing 2 camps before the big buff should be encouraged/rewarded.
: Not being a jungler myself, I'm confused about the timing of ganks now. Is it more practical to farm jungle until you hit your enchantment with actual combat stats, or do you try to get ganks off with just using your fancy smite?
> Not being a jungler myself, I'm confused about the timing of ganks now. Is it more practical to farm jungle until you hit your enchantment with actual combat stats, or do you try to get ganks off with just using your fancy smite? Ganking with the fancy Smite if what you can and should do - if you chose the right upgrade or are a jungler with natural ganking abilities. Amumu, for example, doesn't really need the extra ganking power of Stalker's. For enchantments, the most useful one to get fairly fast is the Juggernaut one - it gives really good HP, the 10% CdR AND 5% MS (which are the real selling point).
: Preseason 2015 Experimental Jungle Changes
What I like about the new jungle: - The buffs for using Smite: Awesome idea to reward proper use of the spell. Especially with how the effect is heavily tied into the thematic of the camp (Bird: Bird's Eyes, Wolves: Sentry Dog, Frog: Poisonous Skin, Stonebros: Stonefists) - Tying Machete to having Smite. - Making the jungle, in general, a tad more difficult - Making counter-jungling more rewarding by upping the camp timers What I dislike: - Smite's CD being 60 seconds - it just feels a hair too long. Especially when you do the 2 camps into big buff start. - The Speed Shrine - this doesn't feel like something that belongs onto Summoner's Rift. Especially since its position makes contesting Baron/Dragon suicidal, due to the team that controls the Shrine always holding the speed advantage for engaging onto you. Also, the vision heavily favors blue team (Dragon side)/red team (Baron side), due to it directly controlling one of reds/blues jungle entrances. - The Still Water Buffs - late-game, vision is a very powerful asset, that should not be granted for just picking something up. Especially the kind of vision that ignores walls - trapping stuff in the jungle becomes much harder. - Sustain feels a little iffy - Tanks can't survive the new jungle without being beaten to a pulp Suggestions: - Have the buff of the River Camp not be a speed shrine, but a powerful Stealth Ward - like, one with 15 hit points. That way, the vision isn't uncounterable, but takes considerable effort and risk to remove (a support on his own runs a really big risk of dying if he tries to clear it alone). - Reduce Smite's CD to 55 or even 50 seconds - allowing junglers to use it on their first camp and then their respective buff without needing to wait 10 (if staying on the same side) or 5 (changing jungle side) seconds. Or, give Poacher's Knife's CD reducing mechanic to Smite in general? - Poacher's Knife: Reduces Smite's CD only on enemy camps. - Ranger's Trailblazer: Couldn't this one's Smite become the Sustain Smite? Like, using this Smite on a camp rewards you with a good deal of mana and HP restored. - Masteries: Give each of the new mastery trees a unique, powerful jungle effect in Tier 5 (requiring 16 points spend into the tree). Possibly, an effect tied to a jungle item or to Smite (as in, only works when you have one of those). Like this in the defensive tree: For each second of taking damage from a jungle camp, increases sustain from jungle item by X% - possibly, without a cap. This reduces the damage tanks take in their long, epic battles with the Razorbeaks and Murkwolves later on, and gives them a form of mana sustain, too. In general, though, I really like what you guys did to the jungle and the whole new map, and appreciate the intent of keeping the game fresh and exciting over and over again. Mad Props. :)
: No CDR currently, but yes health and mana. It builds out of Catalyst atm.
Another Catalyst upgrade is definitely interesting. One problem with these new, niche-powerful items in the past was the fact that they were either too slot-inefficient to be taken or inferior, even in their intended niche, to items with more broad appeal. This refers to things like... {{item:3060}} - The minion promote feature is a great idea. Problem is, the item also packs the aura effect that increases minion damage centered on the champion with the item - making it this weird case were it is either nice niche item for most APs and overpowered on minion masters (Heimer, Zyra, Annie, Malzahar) or just a niche choice on those guys and inferior on everybody else. {{item:3056}} - Strong active, but "wrong" (feeling-wise) stats. If it was to be an anti-tower item, shouldn't it give Armor, too? (And what do you think about the idea of having the disabled tower always target the Ohmwrecker bearer first when it comes back online, if he is in range?) {{item:3131}} - Again, superstrong active. But anti-synergistic stats with the active on top of being incredibly stat-inefficient.
: Will the split-push portal item not make the current split-push champs even more "pushy"? As in: you were not paying attention to a lane and suddenly he melted through 3 turrets.
I think that it will be something for tanky splitpushers, not so much for the current, damage-focused ones. As such, it should possibly clash with their builds...
: Preseason 2015: Experimental objective and item changes
Radiant Glory: HP, CdR, possibly mana? Mana, since most manaless tanky guys don't have a problem of getting into a fight.
: Do you have any plans for items to counter mobility, like lucian's dash or kassadin's ult? Do you forsee the new warmogs being too strong on mundo or garen?
Garen might become an immovable splitpusher with the changed Warmog's and a Sightstone...Always pressure, never die ({{champion:82}} Hue.)
: Preseason 2015: Experimental objective and item changes
Dragon-Blooded: What kind of buffs are we talking about? Pure stats? Or non-stat incentives? And will it still give some modicum of gold?
: [Quinn and Valor] buff suggestions
You don't have a clue how to play Quinn, do you? E places you in almost out-of-AA-range if you use it from far away (as a gapcloser/trade-tool) and places you farther away than AA range if you use it on short distance (as a disengage tool). Once you played one or two games with her, you can pretty reliably foresee what will happen.
: Experimental preseason 2015 changes hitting the PBE over the next few days
'Dis bedda b gud. No, I'll be quite looking forward to it. Crazy sh*t, fire away!
: I'm glad you bring this up, I'd like to be clear on the deathcap interaction. Aspect of the Serpent applies first, then Deathcap, so: At 100 AP, for ease of math, at 400 stacks: 100 x 0.3 = +30 AP from AotS, = 130 AP 130 x 0.3 = +39 AP from Deathcap = 169 AP. The archmage mastery also comes after AotS, but before Deathcap. If this doesn't seem to be functioning properly, please let me know :D
One thing there - the order of the factors in the multiplication doesn't really matter, as long as the boni are all multiplicatively applied (meaning, 1.3 * 1.05 for Deathcap and Archmage, instead of (1 + 0.3 + 0.05 = 1.35). 1.3 * 1.05 * 1.3 is the same as 1.3 * 1.3 * 1.05 or 1.05 * 1.3 * 1.3.
: The stacks she gains and the bonuses she unlocks are permanent! I'll try to think of a way to make this clearer in the tooltip.
Add "permanent" or "permanently" somewhere in there. I like what that passive does to her power curve :)
: I think you're right here. Will likely act on this.
Don't do it. Neither of the 10% CdR items is particularily good on the new Cass. DFG isn't a tool for a DPS mage, but for a burst one, and both Twin Shadows and WotA give not enough AP for the slot to be efficient enough. For that final 5% CdR, people could take 2 flat or 1 scaling CdR quint. For the build, something like this might be a good idea: {{item:3040}} {{item:3027}} {{item:3135}} {{item:3089}} + Boots + Item of Choice
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DrDeath

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