: Really glad to see Riot exploring these options. After reading through the FAQ, here's my initial feedback. ---- **Three-Pack vs Single Chromas** - Your explanation of the price scheme makes sense to me. If one chroma would cost 390 RP, but the three-pack costs 540 RP, I'm fine with getting the combo deal. I feel like this would also make it easier to coordinate with friends in champion select, since there is a higher likelihood of having matching colors when everyone gets three in a pack. **"Old and busted" recolor skins** - I don't think that these should be reclassified as chromas. Most of the champions with these types of skins are really old, and old champions have been getting visual updates with increasing frequency. One of my favorite parts of visual updates is to see how the skins are updated, as well as the classic look. Kingpin Twitch, which used to be just a recolor, easily became my favorite skin for him after his update. I feel like the same potential exists for old recolory skins like King Rammus, Toxic Mundo, Deadly Kennen, etc. **Particles?** - I would hope that this would be decided on a champion by champion basis, and it seems like you guys feel the same way. A champion like Caitlyn doesn't have a ton of colorful particles, so I don't think they would need to be changed. Someone like Ezreal, however, would benefit a lot from having his spell effects match his new chroma. **Zac** - I think Zac is a great choice for chromas, but I can definitely see why he wasn't picked to be the first example. Someone like Lucian makes a lot more sense, as his character model has more to work with and consists of a couple different colors, where Zac is just a single color throughout. I would definitely like to see some Zac chromas in the future, once everything gets going. **Splash Art color changes** - I agree, probably not necessary. Maybe some sort of colored icon would be nice, placed in the corner of the art on the loading screen. **Alternate ways to unlock** - I'm fine with chromas not being available to purchase with IP. Skins aren't, either, so it makes sense. I think some integration with the new Champion Mastery system would be really cool, though. Getting a free chroma for maxing out your Mastery on a champion would be awesome. Maybe you could even get a special chroma that isn't even available to purchase with RP. ---- Champions that I'd like to see chroma packs for: * **Varus** * **Kha'Zix** * Galio * Thresh * Zac * Kog'Maw * Diana * Syndra * Azir Skins that I'd like to see chroma packs for: * **Dino Gnar!** * **Full Machine Viktor** * **Neon Strike Vi** * Soul Reaver Draven * Sandscourge Skarner * Scarlet Hammer Poppy * ~~Pool Party Leona~~ It happened! * Tyrant Swain * Abyssal Nautilus
^ This. Is. Perfect. Riot pls listen to this guy, he has a lot of good feedback and ideas. Moreover I agree that when you have a Basic Chroma Pack (like Lucian's) it could be unlocked via Champion Mastery, though I'm also not a fan of paying RP twice to get a Skin Chroma Pack.
: Unable to view own threads
I can't too YAY I'm not the only one. And I was stupid enough to repost it xDDD However, I'm glad to see it can be fixed. I want to answer some comments :(
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: I can't tell you how awesome it is to actually get back to a meaningful discussion with a bunch of you all. I was pretty depressed the last few days seeing how my rush to get Sona's bugs fixed had left you all feeling neglected. I can promise that this is something I'll be working on for future projects. I really appreciate you taking the time to open up the conversation again. For Ardent Sensor, the AS buff will get refreshed by each heal or shield, but does not stack. Even with that, Sona is one of the best champs to make use of the item. It's still a situational/comp based item, but there are definitely teams are very happy to see Sona pick it up. For the suggestion you posted, the issue here would be the power and resources needed to make each of those components noticed, satisfying and communicated well. It's very hard to give Sona initial Q bolts, Q procs, and AP/AD forever and have each of those elements have enough power that they are visible and meaningful without having Sona be incredibly powerful. That is the main reason that the stat auras were problematic. Stat auras are inherently low appreciation for the power they give, and will likely always be unless we find better ways to communicate stat growth in league of legends. I did try a slightly similar version of E which gave a mixture of flat MS and % MS. The problem was that even very small values made Sona incredibly fast throughout the entire game. That was likely just due to the scaling essentially being too good at all times, just to make sure the values didn't look laughable on the tooltip. This project has taught me a lot about power appreciation. Seeing W shield get compared to Lux shield for example is really interesting. W shield is roughly half an ability, but people still have incredibly negative reactions when they compare it to another champions full ability. This is interesting, even if not that surprising. Thanks again for the conversation. :)
Well, stats auras are always hard to notice unless they are item's ones, that gives you a little aura at your feet...maybe that's the way to solve a problem. Everytime you enter an ally's aura, you get it at your feet to? Just an idea. Could be used in the future :) Thank you very much for reading my post and sharing your thoughts. I start to understand lots of things. For example, didn't know that mixing flat MS and MS% makes you incredibly fast. (Ain't nobody got time for it!) About Sona's shield, I think people (or at least myself) compares it to Lux's one because Lux's was the weakest shield coming from a champion until Sona's appeared, and we all know that Lux wasn't designed as a support. For me, it was like a bar, and any support's shield should be above it. However, I understand it isn't the only part of the ability, as it heals an ally too. About Ardent Censer: D'ough. I wanted to do crazy combos with my ADC. Well, still a 4-man 25% AS bonus. Nice.
: We all want to buy gnar ;.;
Just gimme that little ball of fur ;*; ...well, sometimes.
: I think it's a very fair criticism that I didn't speak to you all as much as you'd hoped for. Saying that only 3 comments on one thread doesn't suffice? That get's a bit tricky. What is the correct ratio of posts? Do I only count posts that have actually tried to open or inform a conversation, or should I count troll posts and people raging without having even played the rework? At what point is my time posting and searching for ambient Sona threads better spent talking with our QA, live balance team, and experimenting with changes, tweaks and bug fixing? It's very possible that I didn't get that formula even close to right. It's something for me to improve on. That being said, when I look at posts that have lots of incorrect information, I started the time on PBE correcting them to make sure truthful information would be visible. Seeing those posts then get downvoted tells me that this community would rather punish someone they don't agree with rather than provide its members with the most accurate info. That's really depressing for me, both as a community member and a designer. It also doesn't help when words get put into my mouth. For E, example, I don't think the AP ratio "balances the ability." I think a completely new ability that gives Sona, as well as her allies a very large block of MS makes sense on a kit that focuses on positioning. Sona can now position for huge ults without Flash due to E, as well as use her other basic abilities with quicker repositioning to save her team and power them up. When we change a champion, some of the balance will be comparative, but plenty of it can't be. Sona is Sona, and her balance as a whole is very different than any other champion. Sona has to be balanced of the collection as her base stats, abilities, growth, item paths, etc. I know it can be frustrating to see a value go down, and it can be easy to dwell on that change in isolation. When we're adjusting Sona, we're looking at the whole, and when she was showing up really strong, we tried to keep her power in the places that gave Sona her own set of strengths and weaknesses. That means she has to be worse at some things than other champions, but she gets to have strengths that are actually her own.
I would want to say three things (Relax, I'm not gonna go angry-birdy): First one, I would want to apologize for being such a rude bastard in many of my posts and comments. I know you guys are doing a very hard work in this rework to try to release her as balanced as possible, and some of us (including myself) haven't acted very nicely. I dropped the ball there, and I'm sorry. It's just the silence what killed me. I saw how Bugs and Client Feedback posts were getting answers again and again, and how Champions and Gameplay Feedback got none. I started to think that we did something wrong, because yeah, lots of the posts were ragey-hatey (I put my trademark on that one), but many of them were actually constructive and they even seem to be pretty good ideas. I understand you can't answer everything, because of the trolls, the haters and the ones that have an idea that can't work because it's crazily OP, but as the owner of this thread says, sometimes just a quick "We tried this but it actually doesn't fit her" would relax our mood. Moreover, I have still some little things to point out on this rework, but this isn't the time nor the place. And if you guys have tested it internally, I guess we have little to say (don't get me wrong). Second one, I have now a technical question: Ardent Censer states that "Every time you **shield** or **heal** an ally, he gets 25% AS". So Sona's Aria of perseverance is a shield **AND** heal. Would it go up to 50% AS? That's crazy, but it will be welcomed. And third one: I posted a little idea for tackling the rework from another point of view. Maybe you don't have the time, but if you could look at it and tell me what you think, I would be very grateful: http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/BbEbREei-riot-suggestion-sonas-alternative-rework Thank you and sorry.
: But: Lux shield has a higher cooldown until she has maxed it. But: That shit is a skillshot, and not an easy one. Tagging people with the aria should be a lot easier than hitting prismatic barrier on anyone else than Lux herself. (Which is still hella annoying to play against, but that is for another day).
But: Lux's shield lasts 2.5 secs longer than Sona's. But: Lux's shield can be refreshed (if you're good enough to tag your allies, ok with that). But: Lux's AP ratio is bigger, and she builds AP primarily. So once again: Lux's shield is hella stronger.
: I've Seen A Ghost In The New Summoners Rift...
I hope they implement it again when 4.13 goes live. I want to see it!
Rioter Comments
: Changing the duration of the buff is a step in the right direction. Not one I expected but a welcome one, my main problem was that it was really hard to tag allies with Auras in teamfights without comprimising your position. With a 5 second aura duration your allies can weave in and out to get your buffs. It should help her a bit I think but it's definitely not the way I'd fix her problems, it's sort of clunky.
It's not the aura duration, it's the bonus magic damage duration ONCE you've tagged an ally.
: It's pretty much finished, it will probably be in 4.13.
When I say it isn't finished I don't mean in terms of ideas from Riot, I mean since the player point of view. It has lots of flaws and lots of players are unsatisfied with the state of Sona's rework, so it wouldn't be a wise movement to push it on to live, because the PBE feedback is being negative about this rework. And it's NOT balanced with other supports, she is actually weaker at this state.
: What happened to the new Summoner's Rift?
They are taking out the data because 4.13 is near. And that bugs me because that means that Sona's rework hasen't been pulled out for some reason...and it's not finished yet.
: Sona's E suggestions from the community. Please contribute guys.
I have an idea for the whole rework mixing old auras with new bonuses effects. Posting the whole idea so you can understand my idea on Sona's E. Passive: ***Remains the same (But please do something with that 50% reduction from Q)*** Q: *Hymn of Valor* : Active: Sona fires two bolts of energy that deals magic damage (searching enemy champions first) and grants her and his allies X magic damage for their next basic attack (Only once per champion). Passive: Sona creates an aura that gives her and her comrades X AD and AP. W: *Aria of Perseverance* : Active: Sona heals her and the allied champion with less Health% for X, and gives her and his allies a shield that mitigates X damage (Only once per champion; maybe increase the shield duration to 2?) Passive: Sona creates an aura that gives her and her comrades X MR and Armor. R: *Crescendo* : Remains the same. *Song of Celerity* would be the hardest to balance out, but I think it could be possible. She needs more tuning up in this one, here are some raw ideas: * Give her more MS% per level (Just 1% is not even enough). * Make the aura give MS% instead of flat MS. * Reduce the cooldown to 10 instead of 12 (10 seconds is hard enough already...). * Maybe make it so the initial cast gives her AND the nearest comrade the MS%? Don't know, just an idea. So we could have something like this: E:* Song of Celerity* : Active: Sona gains 10/12/14/16/18%(+6.5%AP) MS that decays down to the allies boost. Allies who touch the aura gains 8/10/12/14/16%(+3.25%AP) MS that lasts 2 seconds. Passive: Sona creates an aura that gives her and her comrades 4/5/6/7/8% MS. And auras could go up to 500 units (given we are playing with the old auras ideas). What do you think about this? All number could use some tweaks. Thank you for reading.
: I'm sorry, i only played the Sona rework when it was first released... but did you say that *Lux's* shield is better than her's now? that's... horrible... as a Lux main i would have to say that she probably has the weakest shield in the game atm (i'm looking at the shield when it only hits someone once, so i'm completely overlooking the refresh when it hits them the second time as it is irrelevant). so if reworked Sona is getting a shield that is weaker than Lux's, then i would have to say something needs to be changed... however, perhaps the heal that it gives could be enough to overlook the considered bad shield?
Yes and no. Yes, Lux's shield at rank 3 (130) is actually better than hers at rank 5 (115) and **I'm only talking about base numbers**. Even when Sona gets +40 on the shield thanks to Crescendo's passive, it becomes 155, and that's Lux shield at rank 4. So yes, Lux's has become better than Sona's. And **no, the super poor healing does not compensate**. It can heal more when your ally os <75% health, but that, in mid game and late game, means suicide.
: Hi inSeyven, If there are no changes that some community members want to see it doesn't mean that they have ignored them. We are doing a favor by testing and giving feedback but it doesn't mean that they MUST change it by the way players want. I have to agree that some suggestions look awesome but some of them are not necessary to be looked at. ALSO!!! I believe that some changes might have been done and they tested them on their own private server but it didn´t work as expected. Please, be patient, think logicaly and don´t act as immature person. ¨Yelling¨ on someone who knows what is he doing is definitely not the right way to start a discussion. Just remember that they do listen to us! They have proven that numerous of times (Night Hunter Rengar, Atlantean Syndra, All-Star login screen, Lee Sin balance changes and etc.) but they are actually the persons who knows what is the best for this game. :)
You must admit that players have said everywhere and several times than Sona's heal and shield are really poor, and they've nerfed the shield again. Auras is the same, they only increased them 50 units (not even a melee-range AA) and they increased CD in exchange. It bugs the players...
: Well, I'm not here to argue semantics, but teaching and providing means of testing a product are not comparable, and interaction is not necessarily verbal / textual communication. This can be done one-way, meaning we can speak, and they can listen. They don't necessarily have to speak back directly in order to 'interact' with us. Often, their responses come in the form of large updates. This is all I'm saying. To respond to your final paragraph, sometimes it takes three or four days to come up with an answer. Not all problems can be solved in a timely manner. Professionalism is not answering with a half assed answer as soon as possible. Professionalism is taking the problem, thinking about the problem, and then fixing the problem. Would it be nice if Riot would actually respond to posts with useful answers or small bits of acknowledgment that the post even exists? Sure. But is it unprofessional that they hardly do? I don't think so. As long as they're working to solve the problem, and actually have acknowledged the problem, what does it matter if we're aware that they're aware in the long run?
It was just an example, the two actions can't even be compared. It was just to give the idea of showing something and then leaving the forums run wild. I don't mind having 3 or 4 days without an answer, mainly cause most of the answers will surely be "No because this and that", but I have recorded even a week and a half without a single answer to anything, either positive or negative feedback. I'm not implying they are not professionals (non, please, they are hard workers), it just bugs me that their responses to our feedback, either talking, reading or updating the game does not match what we players are asking for. Their updates haven't matched our feedback as long as this rework has gone on. Edit: Ah, btw, I think MLGermany is referring to the fact that a lot of the posts about Bugs and Client Feedback have gotten a Red's answer and the Champion and Gameplay Feedback ones are still waiting.
: Regarding Q not dealing enough damage on it's own: I'd actually say that this is kinda fair. If you were to put the power from Q-Powercord (or now, bonus AA damage) all into her Q, it would be way too strong as a poke. If she has to go in AA Range to deal her full damage, she puts herself at a certain risk. For this risk, she is allowed to deal more damage. And in lane, finding ways to deal your poke without getting punished too hard is part what makes her fun. For me at least. Regarding the claim that champions fullfilling multiple roles are useless: Say hello to the fighter class, where every melee can kinda be everything, be it initiator, sustained dps, burst or crowd control. I think part of Sonas identity is that she is a little all-around support. Has some burst, can heal, provides utility, has an Aoe stun. If you want her to be one "role", you would have to scrap the kit all together and choose one direction. I don't think that is the way to go. I'm not saying i'm against upping some numbers on the W or the shield though. Also, why does there seem to be the assumption that everyone thinks that live-Sona is weak? Just because the meta seems to favor initation based or tanky supports? Personally, i still think i can do fairly well with her and get good results.
Sona's live only problem is that she is squishy and the auras aren't that noticeable (can buff the auras then, tho), but I play her support AND mid (great poke: q+R+powerchord+LichBane=GG WP) and I think she can do lots for the team. However, she can be buffed a little up with the right rework. And this isn't the one, clearly.
: Why does it matter if they interact with the PBE community? I know the thread title disagrees with what I'm about to say, but "Public Beta Environment" implies that we are testing new things. Testing implies the possibility of bad things. It also implies that they aren't sure if the good things are actually 'good things'. So, in that sense, the only purpose of PBE is bug reports and client feedback.
MEC. Wrong. They have to interact with the PBE community because if they don't they can't know if something is going bad. Think of it this way: you're a teacher, and after doing the class of the day with your students, you close the book, ask "Any questions?" and then, without giving them time to answer, you leave the classroom. Or you close the book and say "If you have questions, write them on a paper and leave it on my desk", and then you don't answer until three or four days later. That isn't the way a profesional works, and I think Riot is full of very capable profesionals.
Rioter Comments
: Am I the only one who is thinking that you are completly wrong?? Look at sona´s ulti, + 40 shield and you forgot that the shield of sona is an **AURA**, so 5 people are getting this one. Riot also fixes thresh shield. Now it gives just thresh and one other player a shield. ===> sona´s shield is much more higher then thresh shield or other shields You also wrote that sona´s shield lasts 1,5 sec, that isnt true. On bottom lane it lasts 2 sec and in teamfights 3 secs. I think you all dont understand the changes on Sona: ***Nerfed on lane, buffed in teamfights.*** > What kind of shield is that? Its like the shield of *Locket of The Iron Solari*. And one question: Do you felt so powerful with the old auras? Q: + 20 ad and + 20 ap W: + 10 armor and + 10 mares E: + 20 % movementspeed Only the e spell had a good aura, w completly useless, and q only good for a full ad team
Let me fix your comment: Song of Celerity's live aura gives 20 FLAT Movement Speed. Furthermore, *we are not saying we feel powerful with the old auras, we think Sona **NEEDS** a rework, but the direction this one is going is wrong.* More fixes: even with +40 shield on a rank 3 ultimate, Aria of Perseverance's shield becomes 155(+20%AP) at rank 5. Thresh, Lux and Karma (I played yesterday as support Karma) have better and longer shields at lesser ranks, and higher AP ratios, and Lux ***can give the shield twice TO THE WHOLE TEAM***, and Karma can give a 5-man shield with a Mantra Shield. We don't want a *Locket of the Iron Solari*, we want a decent shield as other supports have (Why should I be glad of having an item-like shield when I can have a REAL shield?). On the other hand, only the W aura gets more duration when it touches allies, up from 3 seconds to 5, but the **shield** lasts only 1.5. You only have the opportunity to shield MORE people, not to shield for MORE time (it's a different thing). So, looking at your comment: you're the wrong one. Sorry mate. Sona's being nerfed all around, not only laning.
: Why even bother with Sona's shield?
I'm starting to think that this rework is: * Either driven by a mad and dangerous monkey. * Or just like a "mad train": something that has gone out of control.
: well, they said they gona take time for Sona this time, i wont mind wait a little longer to get a nicer update for her. The based model is already in really great shape, some of the animations still need work, but wont be too much effort :D
It would actually be nice; not a "relaunch" like the others VU we have seen (Karthus, Twitch...), but something nice like Garen and Nasus received. They've already done half of the work, her TU is very nice (only thing on this update, and her icons and VFX).
: They should, everybody will be so happy! just a little bit more work, they've doing great so far!!!
And it would give them time to polish the rework and reading the feedback- Wait, they are supposed to be doing that already...
: I really think Riot is trying to get us to actually RIOT because of this rework. I see what you're up to.
Nice word playing. It's sad to think that this will be the only use for Sona's rework if it goes on like this.
: It's a good idea but it would make Sona way too strong. Basically your keeping her the way she is live but buffing her with these additional pbe changes. They could increase her cooldowns to compensate but it's not really fun to not have any abilities to cast.
It is not that way, actually. The old auras could have their numbers lowered, since the new bonuses effects (I refuse to call them "buffs" as Sona has been nerfed) are already **low** (they are low, let's not neglect that). Moreover, the live auras aren't that strong...20 AD and 20 AP on Q(5)? Only the two basic AD items give lower AD than that, and the lesser one on AP (Amplifying Tome, not Doran's) gives 20 AP already. 10 armor and MR are W(5), low enough to implement it to the new Aria of Perseverance.
: Newest Sona Update!
Are you serious, Riot? Everything we say is low, you lower it even more to the ground. Everything we ask for a buff, you go and nerf it. And every good idea or just a suggestion we have to our beloved Sona, is just tossed aside and ignored. I don't even feel like a PBE player anymore due to the fact that my feedback (and not only mine, **LOTS OF PEOPLE FEEDBACK**) has been utterly ignored. Every single patch is worse than the precedent. And now you're lowering her shield? COME ON! I mean, THE SHIELD IS ALREADY TOO LOW AND SHORT, WHAT KIND OF JOKE IS THIS!? You have to wake up and read our feedback! We don't find this new Sona fun, we don't find her even remotely powerful. She is still squishy, but now is even worse than before! You know? I don't have more refunds on live servers, but if I had, maybe Sona would be one of them. I'll tell you what'll happen: in the patch notes on live, on the forums, people will rage at this, and the more "understanding" will think *Well, it can't be that bad, let's try out*. Sona will be played lots in the first week due to the rework, and then she'll fall into oblivion. Actually, people will only remember Sona when going on lolhentai.net and pages like that because of her boobs; but in-game, she will be forever forgotten until you guys have no other choice than buffing her or reverting the whole rework. Look, we all love that Sona is getting some love, new textures, new icons and new VFX, but the direction this rework is going is utterly wrong. Wake up already. It's about damn time.
: Idea for next Cinematic!?
Would absolutely love to see Mordekaiser again in a cinematic (he came out in the Dominion one), with Olaf, Sona, Yorick and Karthus, doing rock hard music and then preparing themselves to fight against other five champions. Maybe a Talon in this one?
: Riot, I hope you're reading the posts about Sona...
For example, there are other posts that suggest number tweaking to her abilities, and there are others (like mine) that suggest differents ways to tackle this rework than lots of people doesn't like (because of how confusing has become). I'd like to think that you don't ignore us, but seriously, Riot, you **HAVE** to read these posts. Some have great ideas, and we have the feeling that you're ignoring us. So please, read the posts and answer sometimes.
: That looks like something that makes sense. Your numbers are probably way high, but i like the idea of spreading out her power between auras and bonus-effects on cast. But if you have so many effects, every part can only get a little of the overall power. Would that still feel powerful?
The idea is to have it so the bonus stats from the aura sums up for the active effect in a way that brings up Sona's power without making her utterly OP. For example, as poor the heal and shield are at first levels (and until you get AP), an aura that gives you a little (not much, maybe 15 at rank 5) armor and MR can makes a little difference. I put numbers in E as an example, but they can always be changed.
Rioter Comments
: Sometimes on the SR Updated Version the jungle camp attack animations do not work, they'll just stand there and do damage.
This happens sometimes too in Live xD Happened the other day to me with Tryndamere jungle. I E to the monsters camp and they stay still and do damage.
: PBE Bug Mega Thread - Summoner's Rift Update
By the way, I found a little visual bug: everywhere on the map, periodically, would appear some white lines on the terrain as if it marks how is the map divided in sections. Could you look at it, please? Thank you.
: Newest Sona Update!
So here I was discussing with MLGermany a way to combine the old Sona with the new Sona, and make her viable, and a good idea came up: what about mixing up the two auras? I'll explain it (and MLGermany is invited to comment too): Passive: ***Remains the same (But please do something with that 50% reduction from Q)*** Q: *Hymn of Valor* : Active: Sona fires two bolts of energy that deals magic damage (searching enemy champions first) and grants her and his allies X magic damage for their next basic attack (Only once per champion). Passive: Sona creates an aura that gives her and her comrades X AD and AP. W: *Aria of Perseverance* : Active: Sona heals her and the allied champion with less Health% for X, and gives her and his allies a shield that mitigates X damage (Only once per champion; maybe increase the shield duration to 2?) Passive: Sona creates an aura that gives her and her comrades X MR and Armor. R: *Crescendo* : Remains the same. *Song of Celerity* would be the **hardest** to balance out, but I think it could be possible. She needs more tuning up in this one, here are some raw ideas: * Give her more MS% per level (Just 1% is not even enough). * Make the aura give MS% instead of flat MS. * Reduce the cooldown to 10 instead of 12 (10 seconds is hard enough already...). * Maybe make it so the initial cast gives her AND the nearest comrade the MS%? Don't know, just an idea. So we could have something like this: E: *Song of Celerity* : Active: Sona gains 13/15/17/19/21%(+6.5%AP) MS that decays down to the allies boost. Allies who touch the aura gains 10/12/14/16/18%(+3.25%AP) MS that lasts 2 seconds. Passive: Sona creates an aura that gives her and her comrades 5/6/7/8/9% MS. And auras could go up to 500 units (given we are playing with the old auras ideas). What do you think about this? All number could use some tweaks, but please don't nerf her any further... Thank you for reading.
: Completely agree, I don't understand the point of this rework. It seems like they want to nerf Sona AGAIN for some reason when not that many people even play her or ban her or are calling for any nerfs.
Exactly. Currently at Live, I only see Sona whenever she is in rotation or I play her, and rarely when she is in the enemy team. And even with that low pool of players, I haven't seen anyone complaining about her for nerfs.
: I just want Sona to be a viable mage and support, that's not boring as hell to play. Currently, she is none of that. Her skillset makes it hard to be a mage, she is outperformed by most supports, and sitting on auras is not enjoyable. She is the easiest support (and arguably champion) to play, and she deserves more than that. Maybe they need to go about the rework a different way, but she absolutely needs one. She has no place in the game right now.
Maybe then, why not reinforcing the auras? Or they could look at it in a different way, like still having the old aura AND the new active effect they want to implement. For example: - Q: Hymn of Valor: Active: Sona produces two bolts of energy that deals damage (searching first for champions) and grants all the champions that touch the aura X magic damage for their next basic attack (only once per champion and cast). Passive: Sona generates an aura that gives her comrades X AP and AD. This, for example, could be a good idea, with some number tweaking, like reducing the aura to 700 (from 1000) and maybe the damage of the bolt. Or the other way: if they just want Sona to be popular again, why not buff her a little?
: Why exactly do you hate the rework? Formerly, I hated the rework as well. After playing a few games with it, I realized she's a lot more fun and not as dull as she is currently, but she is indeed weaker. All Riot needs to do is buff the numbers and she should be viable for once.
Because I have tried out all the changes they've done, including these ones. And I always feel weaker than at live servers. Moreover, the lose of stances and musical auras is a kill to the character's core. I mean this: if she is a Maiven of Strings, why does she only play her songs for 3 seconds and then is silenced. And because I'm not the only one who said this when they launched the rework, but they haven't listened us.
: Newest Sona Update!
I will say once again what I've said three times: This whole rework is wrong since the beginning, and that's why you're having so much trouble readjusting everything. And I still haven't seen someone saying "We are reworking Sona because...". If this is made to make her popular again, you're doing it wrong. You'll lose like 70 or 80% of Sona's players, so it won't be even worth comparing number of players before and after rework. Live Sona IS good. You've kept ignoring this fact to satisfy I-don't-know-what-kind of desire of yours, and players are complaining. So, why don't you just use up the VFX update and the texture update and cancel the rework? Some of us would be very pleased.
: People asked for more buffs because sona was so hard to use now without dying and you responded: nerf heal, nerf spamming (mana costs), sona is to op. I guess you only calculate numbers and don't try to really play with her. You have outright nerfed her to the ground and i understood the whole rework was so Sona would be played MORE. If i was you, i'd just cancel this rework and simply buff Sona a little if you think she needs it. This rework is a train wreck from the beginning and it doesn't seem to get better. > How many games have you played on the Sona Update? On this update, one. > What sort of game was this? (Doom bots, Summoners Rift 5v5, Standard Bots, Howling Abyss, etc.) Summoners rift 5v5 > Did you find any bugs? no > How was laning phase? boring because i basically couldn't do anything aggressive and thankfully they didn't do much either, i couldn't have saved my carry if they did. Mana was 0 all the time even if i only healed after a poke from thresh/cait. Couldn't do any poking myself obviously. (mana, death). I was basically nothing, if carry had full health then i was literally pointless, i couldn't poke or even give any lane presence without dying. If they had poked us more then it would have been even worse since i didn't have enough mana for almost anything even tho i rush mana regen and have mana regen runes. When our jungle ganked, 1 time out of about 5 or 6 i could get a slow on someone and help with the gank, other times i was just pointlessly floating there. The cooldowns just killed early game since you can't basically do anything before you have at least 35% cdr. > How was mid and late game? didn't feel like a support at all, could mostly save only myself if things got bad. When we were fairly safe, i could heal allies without dying but only then. Speed buff was like i said 9/10 times only for myself even if i tried to give it to allies. When trying to help team to baron i had aggro about third of the time because i had to hug baron to give shield and q buff to all >How risky was tagging your allies with your auras? Q - if we were between enemies, then it was death to us anyways, so it didn't change anything, didn't help either. When we weren't surrounded, then it was doable if any1 didn't change target to me, they could have, always, and i would be dead or out of the fight leaving others alone. W - Safe when there was no fighting, in tf you could only hope that there is NO AOE from the other team or you are all dead anyway, you could NOT give everyone the shield if they did, and with no real aura you were pointless E - if you weren't hugging them on the right time as you had to use E then it was impossible. I tried: E -> try my best to get near an ally who was moving -> ally sees this and tries to come into the "aura" -> too late, aura gone, allies time wasted. > How often was the risk worth the reward not nearly often enough if you even accomplished to do so. > How did you feel about your impact on team fights? i didn't feel like a support, i felt sad. > What did you think of Sona's updated audio? only thing that i'm happy with. So much better than total silence. > What did you think of Sona' update art assets? The hula-hoop around her seemed out of place, it made possible to know what chord you have but it just looked silly. After inspecting it closely i could see that it was supposed to be some notes but it was really hard to see. It looked so out of character. Also i don't know if it's just me but the hair seemed a little funny and out of place, and not like hair especially the ends. (on live i play with muse sona skin so i might just be wrong) edit: You raped her! You murdered her! You nerfed her abilities!
: while i agree with most of your sentiments you should have cleared your head a bit before posting this. im upset too with the current sona update but getting mad and yelling like this won't help. leave constructive feedback and since this is still early in development hopefully it will be changed.
Let me tell you this: I already posted feedback en the old thread. Negative but constructive feedback. I gave my reasons and argumented why the current Sona rework isn't "Sona" anymore. And I got ignored. I think it's understandable why I am even more upset. I saw how lots of players, as well as me, got ignored, justo because tour feedback was negative. But it WAS constructive.
: Sona PBE Update
*Riot, don't. Just DON'T do THIS.* *Sona is a wonderful character like she is. She has a bad early because of her low base armor and base health, but she can still make a difference to help her adc to win in the laning phase thanks to the poke of Staccato, the healing on Aria of Perseverance and Diminuendo on the enemy adc. And Song of Celerity allows you to chase down an enemy or save you AND your companions.* *This is just...pointless. I mean, I've never imagined Sona without her persistents auras. They were a key part of her gameplay for me, I've always tried to make the best of me and my comrades using the Auras and the Power Chords. But now, this? You're removing the persistents aura for...THIS SHITTY NEW AURAS?* *You're killing her! MUSICAL AURAS WERE PART OF SONA'S CORE AS A CHARACTER!* *I'm warning you. Sona will LOSE a lot of popularity if these changes go to live, and she isn't very popular already. She is a lot weaker now in everything, maybe except in the shield and healing on missing health. Maybe you could lower the base healing and the AP ratio and use this idea on the live servers? She would gain popularity.* *For Q to have an impact, you need to enhance your allies AA and hit the enemy. But that's almost impossible without Sona getting killed or failing one of this two objectives.* *W is better...I guess.* *E is even worse than before. In live servers, I can chase my ADC from base to inhib tower. Now, I have to get to outer mid tower to catch her/him. And, if I need to be in a 300 range near my comrade to give him the mov speed bonus, you can only give it to your whole team when you are packed, or it is impossible.* *The new particles on the ult are great, though, and the idea of ranking the ult and having more powerful Power Chords IS good. Maybe you should look at that without doing these stupid changes.* *And it's better that I don't talk about her cooldowns because...well. They are shit. 10 seconds? And what now, I wait to their jungler to gank me without any spell ready? You become free candy with those CD. 6 seconds were long enough to punish you if you don't use your spells carefully, 10 are way too much.* *Pls, I'm not trying to rage without a reason to you. I know that you care about your players opinion, so I'm trying to be reasonable and giving arguments to my complaints. So please, read this and reconsider carefully this changes. Or we'll have a "Olafed" Sona (Remember when you tried to change Panth's ult range? This is the same, but with the WHOLE CHAMPION). If I weren't curious enough to look sometimes at the PBE and this rework came to live suddenly, I would completely stop playing Sona.* *Thank you for reading.* P.S: I am amazed at how you react to your players feedback. I mean, this was one of the several comments on the old thread that was saying that we, players, didn't like the new Sona. And the only thing you react to is "Sona's snuggle zones are too short", "Her VFX are too loud". And what about us? What about the players that are giving SERIOUS feedback about Sona being a hell more difficult and unsatisfying to play?. Not to talk that the only thing you've done is improve the VFX and add ONLY 50 units to the auras' range. So in short, you're ignoring a part of your players that are not satisfied with this "new champion" that Sona is becoming. She is not interesting anymore. She has lost stances (being one of only two stances champions) and permanent auras, and the new auras are not attractive (at least for me). What use is for E to have an aura if you can't even touch your allies with it? I'll make it short: I won't play Sona anymore if you make this changes to live. I'm warning you, and I think I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Good luck.
: Sona PBE Update
Riot, I'm so disappointed with you. Reaaaaally disappointed. When you put the old thread about the Sona changes, I hoped at first it was a joke. Then I raged. Then I calmed down and wrote my feedback and thoughts. And you must admit that, as well as me, there were a lot of players that told you that **OLD SONA WAS BETTER THAN NEW SONA**. Time has passed. I saw this new thread, and read it. And then I directly raged. ***HOW DO YOU EVEN DARE TO SAY THAT YOU LISTEN TO YOUR PLAYERS FEEDBACK?*** Come on Riot! Don't play with us! EVERYBODY TOLD YOU THAT THE SNUGGLE ZONE WAS TOO DAMN SHORT AND YOU ONLY ADD 50 UNITS TO THE RADIUS? IT SHOULD BE AT LEAST 700 UNITS! Look, I'm really confused. Every champion you have reworked or at least VU'ed needed it. The players had said they needed a tune up. They NEEDED a change. And I still haven't figured out why the heck should Sona receive a rework. I just can't see why. No one asked for it. She wasn't strong on LCS, or even at live servers. She was fullfiling her role and her power archetype. So pls, why is this fucking change going on when lots of people SAY THEY DON'T WANT IT. I beg, expect and really want a serious answer for this. And I will post again my old answer to the old thread again. I warned you and you didn't listen. Thanks for reading.
: Only tried a couple games due to crashes, will try more, but my feelings are pretty set at this point. 1. Are the effects of Sona’s spells more clear? **Not.. really? I don't think they were previously *un*clear..** 2. Did you have difficulty using your auras to give allies your buffs? **Yes. The aura range is so small now, it's *ridiculous*. Please consider upping it. Somewhere between 500-750 would be more usable. The aura time is also incredibly short. I don't think it'd be out of line to double it, at *least*.** 3. Did this become easier late game/during team fighting? **Not a chance. This Sona feels so much less useful during fights, with achingly long cooldowns.** 4. Did you feel more able to support or save your allies? **Mostly, no. Previously, Sona was useful even while low on mana, because simply maintaining an aura was a buff to her ally, so she could afford to sometimes stay and recharge, rather than having to recall every time she runs out of mana. Sona's massive mana usage coupled with temporary auras is not pleasant. Plus, constantly having to chase after my allies to buff them is frustrating. I do enjoy the shield, though.** 5. Did you feel more able to survive all-ins during laning? **This feels exactly the same.** 6. Did your spell casts feel more impactful? **This is a difficult question. Obviously, giant glowing whirls around my allies will seem more *visually* impactful, but I feel that her old low-key but permanent auras impacted the game on a much greater level.** 7. Did you notice any bugs? **Not exactly a bug, but it's very hard to tell which power chord you have queued up. Previously, you'd know based on what aura was at your feet. Now, well...** 8. What items did you build? **Mostly {{item:3092}} {{item:2045}} {{item:3158}} {{item:3174}} {{item:3190}} {{item:3050}}** 9. What items felt very powerful? **It all feels like live Sona, but tuned down.** 10. What items felt less effective? **See above.** 11. Were Sona’s spell effects more enjoyable? **Yes, definitely. Everything felt splashier, crunchier. It could definitely use more of a "musical" vibe, though..** 12. Were Sona’s spell effects easier to understand? **Obviously the aura range is clearly delineated, but everything else seems about the same as live.** My honest feelings here? Riot is making a huge mistake. Sona is one of only two stance-based champions. Stances can be fun. Auras can be fun. I know I feel very accomplished when my team accomplishes something, and I know it was only because I was powering them. If you take away Sona's stances, the only stance-centric champion left will be Udyr. Do you really want to *reduce* choice, Riot? Isn't there a way to make her feel more impactful, *without* taking away what makes Sona *Sona*?
THANK YOU FOR EXPLAINING WHAT I COULDN'T EXPLAIN ON MY POST. You have really a point about that thing about auras and stances. Only Udyr and her gain persistent effects whenever they use an ability, and Udyr only gains it for himself. What are they going to do now? Are they going to take Udyr's power, fragment it for his allies and remove the stances? Stances ARE fun, auras ARE fun. "**Did you feel more able to support or save your allies?** Mostly, no. Previously, Sona was useful even while low on mana, because simply maintaining an aura was a buff to her ally, so she could afford to sometimes stay and recharge, rather than having to recall every time she runs out of mana. Sona's massive mana usage coupled with temporary auras is not pleasant. Plus, constantly having to chase after my allies to buff them is frustrating. I do enjoy the shield, though." *Claps crying in agreement*
: riot loves destroying champion identities. what else is new -.- Sona doesn't feel like a Bard anymore.
I agree with you. Moreover, if you don't have the aura floating around you, she looks clumsy just floating around with no music coming from her etwahl. She is no longer a Bard, she only carries around a big instrument that plays for three seconds and then is silenced. What kind of music mage is that? I would rather have the VFX and new particles going on live servers than the whole rework.
: Sona Update Feedback and Bugs Thread
Riot, don't. Just DON'T do THIS. Sona is a wonderful character like she is. She has a bad early because of her low base armor and base health, but she can still make a difference to help her adc to win in the laning phase thanks to the poke of Staccato, the healing on Aria of Perseverance and Diminuendo on the enemy adc. And Song of Celerity allows you to chase down an enemy or save you AND your companions. This is just...pointless. I mean, I've never imagined Sona without her persistents auras. They were a key part of her gameplay for me, I've always tried to make the best of me and my comrades using the Auras and the Power Chords. But now, this? You're removing the persistents aura for...THIS SHITTY NEW AURAS? You're killing her! MUSICAL AURAS WERE PART OF SONA'S CORE AS A CHARACTER!. I'm warning you. Sona will LOSE a lot of popularity if these changes go to live, and she isn't very popular already. She is a lot weaker now in everything, maybe except in the shield and healing on missing health. Maybe you could lower the base healing and the AP ratio and use this idea on the live servers? She would gain popularity. For Q to have an impact, you need to enhance your allies AA and hit the enemy. But that's almost impossible without Sona getting killed or failing one of this two objectives. W is better...I guess. E is even worse than before. In live servers, I can chase my ADC from base to inhib tower. Now, I have to get to outer mid tower to catch her/him. And, if I need to be in a 300 range near my comrade to give him the mov speed bonus, you can only give it to your whole team when you are packed, or it is impossible. The new particles on the ult are great, though, and the idea of ranking the ult and having more powerful Power Chords IS good. Maybe you should look at that without doing these stupid changes. And it's better that I don't talk about her cooldowns because...well. They are shit. 10 seconds? And what now, I wait to their jungler to gank me without any spell ready? You become free candy with those CD. 6 seconds were long enough to punish you if you don't use your spells carefully, 10 are way too much. Pls, I'm not trying to rage without a reason to you. I know that you care about your players opinion, so I'm trying to be reasonable and giving arguments to my complaints. So please, read this and reconsider carefully this changes. Or we'll have a "Olafed" Sona (Remember when you tried to change Panth's ult range? This is the same, but with the WHOLE CHAMPION). If I weren't curious enough to look sometimes at the PBE and this rework came to live suddenly, I would completely stop playing Sona. Thank you for reading.
: Thanks Dixan el Trueno! What strikes are missing?
For example, Jax hitting sounds are missing, and sometimes Turtle Stance on Spirit Guard Udyr doesn't sound when hitting. Also, in Hazmat Heimerdinger, some sounds are louder than others, and the sound when you toggle on your ultimate is very low. In addition to the issue with Aatrox second attack on W doing no sound.
: New Audio Engine On PBE - Continued Testing This Week!
The trinkets now are one hell of loud... And a lot of strikes sounds are missing.
Rioter Comments
: When we didn't have the ult consuming the passive stacks we were seeing Ult into follow up passive stun pretty much every time. This was creating really long hard CC chains beyond the duration that we typically allow. With this in mind, we compensate him if he uses an ult on a target with stacks of the passive by adding additional damage per stack.
However, you can still get a very large stun on an enemy: you can build up the stacks on him, consume them for a stun and automatically use your ult to nullify him. At level 18 it means like 2'75 seconds of an enemy being not able to do shit.
: Summoners Rift Visual Update Questions
I'm not a Red buuuuut...I guess I can help you, saw some of this questions on the european Q&A :3 * Towers that regen their HP only regen the HP; they stay visually affected, as if they were already crumbling. * I can't tell about if it will load faster or not, but they have reassured several times that the map will be optimized so I guess the charge time is the same more or less. * Not even an idea about this, but seeing that they have been pushing some new data recently to the platform, I guess that 4.10 will be out to live soon and the VU will be in 4.11. * RiotGuilean and RiotSh4rin said that for now they hadn't considered the minions spawn animation; however, they considered it a good idea and told us that they would push the idea to the animation developers. * No idea about this one. Guess so. * Not even an idea xDDD Sorry for this two. Hope it helped! And sorry if my English is bad :3
Show more

DixanElTruenoEUW

Level 30 (PBE)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion