: Why I feel that the Soraka changes were bad for Counterplay against Soraka, and hurt her 'feel'
There are actually particles for when you have Alignment buff. The only problem is that they're very small and not very noticible.
: > [{quoted}](name=nvmvoidrays,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=43MTn2oL,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-02-11T03:11:48.917+0000) > > i just don't think the current iteration of Alignment works. > > 90 health over 3 seconds is piss-poor when Soraka is using double that with her heals. plus, you can't tune Alignment up too high because it also has the tacked-on mana regeneration portion. i don't get why Soraka regenerating mana needs to keep being pushed onto us. i don't want it. it'll just make her harder to balance... as does the current Alignment. > > Alignment (and her Q) don't feel rewarding. you don't get rewarded for playing better than another Soraka. you don't get extra damage, more healing, a slow, etc. you just throw out Q whenever you can. it feels bad. > > this current Soraka is also forced into leveling Q as well. there's literally no reason to max W first, unless you wanna be fodder until 13. > > plus, i think these current changes are subtly going to encourage a possible midlane Soraka in poke/siege comps. sure, she won't have much damage, but, if Soraka can buy full AP items, she's suddenly healing herself for massive amounts and tossing out 600-700 heals. right now, she can't really be played (well) mid because her damage is poor and she needs to level W to sustain herself or she'll just get wrecked by pretty much any other midlaner. with her sustain being moved entirely onto her Q... yeah. > > i think they should just scrap everything, but the reducing the heal, move her sustain to Q, maybe, and rework Alignment: let it be a healing buff thats consumed when she casts W to increase her healing. make it stack on champions hit. hell, i don't know. i just don't think the current direction they're going with Soraka is right. I was thinking the same thing about mid lane Soraka. If these changes go through she'll be pretty much useless as a support. Alignment feels very underwhelming and weak. It doesn't heal her enough. Her nerfed W hurts, as well. I would like to no the reasoning behind these changes. Maybe this will help me understand why they are going this direction with the rework. I just hope they don't dumpster her like they did before her most recent rework. That was brutal.
I've tried asking Rickless for the reason for the changes, he never said why. My guess is they're doing it in an attempt to lower her frustration levels. Personally, I think Soraka won't ever get picked or used with this rework. Her damage is too low and she doesn't have the utility to take her mid like Lulu or even possibly Nami. Her gold requirements are just too high as a support in order to function there. So she ends up with this horrible Limbo state where she's not good in either lane, and just isn't usable. Riot will then Leave her there for a few years before giving her another massive GU that completely reworks her (Again) because she's in a spot where she's not usable at all.
: > Overall, these changes "FEEL" better, but still don't solve the problem that without a way to regenerate large portions of HP at a time, Soraka's ability to maintain healing still feels like a massive punishment than anything else. I think you're expected to heal yourself using health regeneration items and runes. Late game, get a warmogs, and you can practically cast forever. My issue with Alignment is that is doesn't feel satisfying to cast it on an ally. Since Q is already unreliable in that you have to depend on hitting an enemy to get Alignment to proc, then the reward should be stronger. Like, double the mana and health reward if you pass Alignment off to your teammate.
Except, Riot purposely designed Soraka so that building health items isn't efficient. That's why her W costs %Max HP. They also made it so that she has to rely on her Q to sustain because her base HP regen is abysmal. It's 3.5 per 5 at level 1 and it's growth is around .5 per level if not barely higher. This means %HP regen is wasted on her. I also don't want Soraka forced to build Warmogs, Spirit Visage, Sightstone, and another HP item just to be able to maintain heals. That's way costly and highly inefficient from a support standpoint. Supports are meant to purchase lots of items that have benefits for allies. Locket/Banner of command, Zeke's Harbinger, Ardent Censor, etc. Riot has designed supports to be the champions/role that builds all of these items that help their allies, not themselves.
: Soraka [2/10]
The thing is, if you're building lots of support items, with 45% CDR, it get's down to about a 3 second cooldown.
Rioter Comments
: And she will be able to heal better; and Starcall was always intended to max first, which is why the change is taking place. Easier to balance the skill shot than the point and click heal; having a passive healer is never good for the game and makes Soraka perma banned
No she won't. She heals better on Live then now on the PBE. Starcall was NEVER intended as a Max first, it was intended as a "Max Second" but it's so bad compared to Maxing E, that very few people max Q second. No one in their right mind would EVER max their Q over their W on live. In all of Soraka's Existence, her W has ALWAYS been her Primary Max first 100% of the time skill.
: Ionian Boots Nerf Motivation Question
It's the fact that they were just way too good. If you look at Pro Play, most poeple were taking them because 10% lower CD on Flash, especially combined with Distortion was just way too good.
: But then comes the problem that she was previously REALLY OP. I mean, you are finally able to kill a low-health tank...but then this bitch comes, heals the tank and you get fucked up because tanks are horribly broken right now. And what's worse is that it's hard to catch her when the tank constantly fucks you up with a lot of CCs while you try to catch her. So yeah, this is the problem. She gives instant heals, she's too OP ; She gives over-time heals, she's too weak and has no sustain (even though her Q is still giving her heals but now it's over time) Might as well just remove Soraka or completely rework her kit because she's mostly stuck and any changes given to her makes her too OP or too weak
this is where adding in a new type of debuff that only affects heals from outside sources would help bring soraka back in line. If you really want to tone down Soraka's healing ability, something like this would likely be preferable: Q: Starcall Soraka calls down a star to a target location dealing X Magic damage and slowing enemies by X%. Passive: Star's Miracle - When Soraka lands her Q, for each enemy champion hit, her Astral Infusion's power is increased by 5/10/15/20/25% W: Astral Infusion Passive: Star's restoration - (Current Live Passive) Active: SOraka sacrifices her HP to heal her allies by 70/100/130/160/190 (+.6 AP) HP
: You're telling me you've never played current live raka with rylai's, scHealth yellows, sightstone, and warmogs? It's hilarious. Coin/nomads into Rylai's and sightstone first. You get the bracers in warmogs later and you can built into warmogs only once you'll get 3k health from finishing it. You literally can't die, because only taking dmg takes off the Warmog's heart passive; you just sit and W. No Q needed.
That is a solid build, but also lacking in mana regen to maintain heals. I have played with Warmogs/Spirit Visage/Rylai's Raka, and it's honestly kind of dumb, but I find gonig more traditional support with some AP mixed in works just as well.
: If thats the case, then they should probably do a different item, Sure its a passive instead of an active and you may have to auto avoid attack some targets But I dont see switching its active to a passive as a **good** solution
Because, if you can force them to burn an Auto on you when it's up, and you get away without them being able to deal any more damage, you just forced them to burn a 2 minute cooldown.
: Duskblade of Draktharr and Nightfall Question
Because if Nightfall was an "Active" ability instead of passive, then you'd have an AD version of DFG, which is what Riot has been trying to AVOID.
: Just Make Grievous Wounds Affect Soraka's Heals
Instead of just nerfing Soraka alone, how about adding in a new item or two with the ability to counter outside heals, but not self heals. Then you'd have an item to build to counter the supports with healing and soraka, without actually touching soraka herself. Because if you make Soraka's heals worse when targeting a grievous wounds target, Sona and Nami will be picked up instead when a team wants a healer.
: So... you guys have tried maxing Q first right? 'Cause she feels way better when you do that. Just thought I'd poke in and add that. When I time Q then W once the buff is about to run out on me only to refresh it on my partner I feel like I actually gain from it vs before. Please don't banana me to death for this comment. XC
you have to Max Q now. In order to self sustain even remotely close enough to maintain heals, you have to max Q. If you max W first, you're asking to be food for the enemy team, and you WILL feed hard. The problem is that Her new Q is lower sustain at all levels of the game compared to her old W passive. Soraka's next to unplayable now.
: Every champion in the game has all their power in mainly one ability; and Starcall was originally intended to be the main ability. Pro players do not do a lot of things they should be doing, Trundle support was always strong with that pillar, but no one picked up until recently. Soraka was always strong but no one picked her up and played her until recently. Lissandra was always strong, but people just decide to play her out of no where. Pros have no logic to them because they do not think on an in-depth and are not explorative, they also immediately dismiss different things same with the rest of the community; because apparently Teemo is not a marksman where every single definition makes him a marksman, and he is strong now cause his shrooms provide so much vision and with arm time buffs he can use the slow to kite enemies in teamfights with move quick speed. Soraka will still be super strong and more will probably need to be done with her, but this is a start, mage-mid Soraka might be stronger with the changes. As I said the changes need to sit with players on LIVE for a patch or two for players can get used to and learn the changes and then reassess values after that.
Soraka's Power was ALWAYS meant to be in her heal. That's her JOB, HEALING. That's why her W is so powerful on Live. It's meant to be her primary "Max this first, ALWAYS" Ability.
: "Suddenly this champion takes some kind of skill, Riot pls revert" You have no idea how frustrating Soraka is to play against on LIVE, I still don't know if this fixes it honestly, but it is a start and people need to get use to the change and get good with it and you will see Soraka is stronger with these changes. Again, if Soraka needs compensation buffs later on I am sure Riot will buff her, just be patient with how the change plays out first.
: Telling you right now, the changes are actually a buff; you just need to get used to them. It should be a good change overall as it seems to help remedy her core problems, she may get a base movement speed buff perhaps in the future or something, or the slow on her Q scales on rank again from 30-50% instead of just 30%. Soraka is perma-banned, sweetie, so she has to get something drastic done with her because simple number tuning won't fix her issues.
Guess what was the small simple change that Made Raka Broken, despite receiving absolutely NO direct number buffs in the Preseason. Grievous Wounds rework. She was kept in check by the fact that people could cut her healing in half. Now they can't do that, so her rapidfire machine gun heals are out of control. She doesn't need a rework, or changes. Riot needs to add in an item purely to counter outside healing. If Riot did that, Soraka's ban rate would plummet, and people would stop complaining.
: They did nerf the range on Starcall awhile back, so a compensation buff might happen in the future of giving her more range on the ability. But the changes should go out on LIVE first to see how things play out, and if Soraka needs compensations then Riot will give them to her. Overall though, the changes are actually a buff to Soraka so people will need time to get used to them frist.
These changes are NOT a buff to soraka. In order for her heal (on PBE) to match live, she HAS to land Q. If she doesn't, this is a flat out nerf. If she doesn't land Q multiple times, she can't recover the HP needed in order to maintain her W heals. Which is a huge nerf.
: > [{quoted}](name=CrazedPorcupine,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=E3LAOqU5,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-01-29T22:59:26.604+0000) > > you do know that Soraka's heal is no longer reduced by Grievous wounds? at least, not on allies? If it doesn't work before, now it probably does. Soraka self healing, and allies increase Hp/Mp Regen "Alignment Buff."
Alignment is still considered an outside source heal. meaning that Grievous Wounds doesn't affect it. Grievous wounds has always stopped Soraka's Self heal though.
Rioter Comments
: Riot forgot It only costs 800 gold for anyone to basically half Soraka's power. {{item:3123}} Yes, maybe the enemy's adc can't finish their first B.F. Sword if they buy executioner calling. That's the point.
you do know that Soraka's heal is no longer reduced by Grievous wounds? at least, not on allies?
: Do not make the same mistakes!
Its cooldown is tied to an auto attack and has a 2 minute cooldown. Honestly, this thing is just fine as it is.
: YAS YAS YASSSSSSS!!!! You are the voice of all Soraka mains and I agree with you! It's kind of exciting that they are bringing her mana healing back though.
It is nice that she gets her mana restore back, but at the cost of all of her ability to heal, is pointless. EDIT: I did the math, It's now more efficient to rank up Q over W now. Less mana, and better heal at all ranks if you manage to land a single Q on opponents.
Rioter Comments
: They could probably lower the self-damaging portion of the heal now to like 5%. I still don't think she'll be picked anymore aside from raka fans, there's just nothing there to have fun with. You need lucky non-crits from the enemy to win a trade/fight beyond the second back. Edit: might be a little bitter bias depression from her constant ban and nerfs lately. It's really disappointing seeing this happen to my favorite champion.
I know, I played Raka to prove that she was still mindbogglingly good after her rework, and now the constant nerfs are just making me hate even having played soraka. Honestly, with the changes they're going to be making, there won't be any reason to pick her over champions like Nami or Sona.
Rioter Comments
: Riot's afraid of making him too hard to duel. I'll admit, Shen was rather tough to duel in his old iteration, but this is just ridiculous. Still, with the lack of sustain in his kit, he really needs the damage reduction when he's expected to use his dodge field on his allies more than himself.
: The explanation as to why Shen's Rework is so utterly disappointing.
the only big thing I think he needs is his E granting Damage reduction again. I don't see why they got rid of it in the first place.
: iirc it's 1.5% max health per 100 AP or 2% max health per 100 AP is it strikes through a target with the ethereal blade.
yeah, that's true, I was thinking it's base damage was a bit high, not the AP ratio. It's AP ratio is fine for a skill that deals %Max HP
Rioter Comments
: AP Shen? RIP?
from what I've seen, his Q damage is actually fine. If anything, it might almost be too high. Aside from that, AP scaling on his E and changing it back to magic damage might be nice.
Rioter Comments
: Panth W, Jax E, and Fiora W can block Rift Herald attacks.
It's intended. Fiora's W is pure invincibility, Jax dodges anthing counted as a basic attack (Dragon attack is not, which is why Jax can't dodge it), same thing with Panth Passive/W,
: How will the Marksman/ADC changes effect AP versions like MF, Kogmaw, and Corki
From what I understand, MF keeps her AP ratio on her E and R (possibly Q?) Corki's getting most all his damage turned into magic, so his AP build should be really good actually. Riot also said that AP Kog'maw shouldn't change too much.
: It's not like anyone will use 2.5 runes. It was cool, but pointless.
I still use the MS quints from one of the Harrowing Events way back in the day. They're only slightly less MS than the tier 3 runes, and were only half the cost. the 2.5 runes are nice because of how cheap they were but still nearly as good as the actual tier 3 equivalents. This would help new players who are trying to buy their rune sets pick up runes that are still very effective, but also much cheaper.
Rioter Comments
: The enemy AP ratio is the unique thing about Veigar - emphasize it and its his AP ratios being the problem right now, not anti-mage sht
No one views Veigar as the "anti-mage" champion. His Ult is the only thing that's "Anti-Mage" Kassadin is more "Anti-mage" than Veigar. Veigar's Anti-mage Qualities. 80% opponent AP on an ultimate. Kass's Anti-mage Abilities. Magic Damage reduction passive, Magic damage shield Channel Interrupt
: Base damage is fine; AP Ratio would need to go down; Enemy AP Ratio can go up then and emphasize its unique strengths
Except, people HATE the fact that if they stomp all over veigar in lane, and build properly, they get punished for it. The enemy AP ratio NEEDS to be removed/nerfed.
: they both need a nerf. amplify the bonus damage on r to mages, but lower the base. that way he can't 1 shot full tank renekton
Uhhh no, remove/nerf the amp damage on enemy mages, and increase it's base AP ratio or base damage. Ekko's Ult has the same base and a higher AP ratio in an AoE.
Rioter Comments
: banshee's veil will not help against "Staff of the Ruined King" as it will be gone on the first ability landing. On spellcast can be abused though. They need someway of counter play with this item. So abilities need to land to finish it. SO ya,not a very good item.
uhhh The bonus damage/DoT only applies if a spell is successful on landing. SPell shields, untargetability and other forms to block spells will negate the DoT from being applied. That's a pretty sizable amount of counterplay. I mean, yeah, Banshee's disappears at the first landing of a spell. Doesn't stop people from buying it against champions with really strong spells that have heavy CC. Besides, I kinda tossed out the passive without a lot of thought into what exactly it'd be. I wanted something more interactive than Luden's, and was a bit more counterplay than Luden's which is, don't stand near minions and don't stand in range or get hit by poke. This is, If I can avoid their poke, then they lose access to a portion of damage. If they try to get close enough to point and click harass, then I can retaliate.
Rioter Comments
: While the suggestion sounds okay (it's a little bland because there's no real reason for these items to exist other than to save inventory space) - but it's a fairly direct approach. However, I'm curious as to why you chose Forbidden Idol + AP and Chalice + AP - as opposed to a Codex Upgrade with AP on it? Athene's and Omnomnomicon both share Codex as their root item and seems like a more logical starting candidate?
Hey Xypherous, The biggest problem with the AP pass, is that Champs like Veigar, who LOVE mega AP purchases because of his high scalings, loses out on a ton of CDR because high AP options are available. If you guys could add a 100 AP CDR item (That's NOT DFG) to give a 4th 100 AP item, that'd be great. How about something like this NEW Scroll of Blood Fiendish Codex + Amplifying tome + 100 gold STATS: 50 AP 10% CDR UNIQUE Passive - Soul Leech: Killing an opposing champion refills 5% of your missing mana Unique Passive - Cursed Magic: dealing magic damage to an enemy champion below 20% HP inflicts grevious wounds for 2 seconds. (This ends up providing a base to the unique passives of Morellonomicon and Grail, which would then become named unique passives) NEW Staff of the Ruined King Blasting Wand (40 AP) + Scroll of Blood (50 AP) + 800 gold (about 2900 gold) STATS: 100 AP 20% CDR Unique Passive: Killing creeps and neutral monsters create stacks of Necromancy Unique Active: Consume all stacks of necromancy to deal 50+(5*stacks consumed) Magic damage to an enemy champion (maximum of 200 damage). 90 second cooldown. The passive and Active are just thrown out there, and aren't really all that great, but I feel like a 100 AP 20% CDR item is important to add into the game. feel free to change the active and passive, but the important part is the recipe and stats (NLR would push the AP up to 120 AP, which I wanted to Avoid)
: Here is my feedback on your feedback. Q: rewards you with smart play, initial damage is crap, if you don't land second stage you lose A LOT of damage. W: It can be used to effectively zone and countergank aswell. Also, did you forget that it slows? You can also use it when escaping so that it is ready when you are going to walk over it for the shield aswell as a slow(if they don't get stunned. E: True, it can be used to evade skill shots aswell as a pretty lenghty gap closer. R:Unless you build tanky enough to survive 4 seconds in order to position your clone into the enemy, or use zhonya's OFFENSIVELY. OH and hey look at me, this very squishy(assuming you went glass cannon since you said it does so much damage) is in the middle of the whole team? More often times than not that is a bad idea(unless you are incredibly fed as he is a hyper carry). Its a trade off. If you use zhonya in order to use the ult you sacrifice a good portion of the heal.
Q: I still feel that overall, he doesn't really reward "Smart". He feels kinda like a melee LB. And honestly, with how mobile he is he can easily survive the 4 seconds needed for his ult position. And if you get engaged on, zhonya's into R will do enough to half health the entire enemy team, even if you have as little as 400 AP since it has such ridiculous scaling. like I said, a nearly 600 base damage, with 1.3 AP ratio. 400 AP means that your ult will deal over 1k damage in a rather LARGE AoE. That's a bit nuts IMO. Honestly the damage should come second to the reposition and heal.
: I'm not sure that it's intended, but its probably worth noting that Chronobreak can be used immediately after recalling back to base and it will instantly warp him back to lane. The 4 second delay leaves more than enough time to buy items and restore most of his missing health and mana, and if you throw in homeguard it even gives him the speed boost when he gets back to lane. It probably interacts in the same way with Teleport, but I haven't had a chance to try that one yet. I can only imagine how annoying it would be to play against someone doing that.
It's intended functionality. And honestly they can't really change it.
: 2.25 second AOE stun is pretty absurd for a basic ability
then you remember that Veigar also has a 2.25 second AoE stun.
: Ekko Feedback Thread
I feel like Ekko's Ult does WAY too much damage for what it does. I mean, it's a huge get out of jail free card, has a super short cooldown, AND is a GIANT NUKE! I mean, nearly 600 base damage with a 1.3 AP ratio is nuts. Reduce his Ult's base damage. I honestly don't feel very "Smart" when I play Ekko. I honestly feel like I'm any other assassin. It's like extended teamfight, or the enemy team engages on us, I press R, and suddenly they're all half health. It doesn't feel that good. Q: Is alright actually, but I don't feel smart using it. I feel like it's Gnar's Boomerang with a slight delay and not having to catch it. W: This feels good, but it honestly just feels like an anivia ult or other pool that people tend to avoid. It doesn't really have any neat "Smart" play to it outside of a successful stun and the execute damage could use better scaling. E: Honestly, it feels like it's just a necessary gap closer that's necessary for Ekko to even function. R: As stated above, I feel like it's just "Press R to win" button that's honestly not very interesting and not very entertaining to use. (Outside of fast base purchase return instantly to recalled position on map, that's pretty fun)
: her w and e abilities are changed
I know that, but, I mean, I want a little bit more depth on why they're nerfing Karma's shield so heavily
: PBE 5.10 Patch Megathread
What's this mini-Karma rework that's in the files?
: [Ashe E] - Ashe´s E gives in my opinion to much Vision
Ashe's E was borderline useless before the buff. I mean compare it to Quinn's E, or even the blue trinket, Ashe's E was just lackluster, sub par for vision, and needed changes. Ashe's E is fine, since if you don't max it, it has a 90 second recharge time. And don't forget, Every champion can have Ashe's E on a shorter cooldown. It's called {{summoner:2}} . Ashe's E is one of the reasons you pick Ashe over any other ADC.
: New Ashe and % damage crit
if you don't have any bonus crit chance, crit damage runes won't work. so in order for a page of pure crit damage runes to work, you need to have one rune of crit chance.
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