: > P: Healing nerf is hard here. The intent is that she can utilize this a bit better. It's faster generation, and also faster regeneration when she goes underground. We've been seeing it be notably stronger via playtests. If that's not the case, we can tune it higher at later levels. > Q: Love that her Burrow blast now does AD and scales with AD (tho you still can AP Rek'sai with its 70% AP scaling) Sweet. Glad you like it! > W: Im fine with the knockup only hitting one but the knock aside needs to still hit all unites (even Champs) It hits all units that are not immune. You only gain the immunity from getting knocked up. This means going for multiple knock-ups on razorbeaks pays off pretty well. > E: This got a big nerf... Empowered hits should be chunkier and a lot more accessible. Her tunnels do have a lot of counterplay and we looked into making them more consistent but instead gave her a separate target selection tool in her ultimate. Like your E ideas and I'll think about them some more but there're trade-offs that I'm not incredibly comfortable making. Glad you're excited for the changes. Hope you have fun!
The knock aside on W probably needs a tiny knockup component, if only to make it more noticeable. Right now it kind of looks like they're sliding ever so slightly and it can be hard to tell if they were actually caught in it. (especially with minions, who maybe should have the displacement distance increased?)
: The PBE got updated today with new changes to his W. The damage buff got reverted. Now, the cooldown was reduced to 11 seconds at all ranks, and shield strength scales from 8%-12% max health instead of 6%-10%. It's much better and actually accomplishes what they seem to want (encouraging players to max W second, rather than last, so he has more tankiness mid-game).
A lower cooldown is great and all, but the actual limiting factor on how often you can use W isn't the cooldown, but the mana cost. That's why you usually grab a Corrupting Potion and sit on it throughout the entire game until you absolutely need the slot. The extra 225 mana it provides for such a low cost is essential for him. Heck, I wouldn't even feel bad trading 2% more scaling on the shield for a lower mana cost. Like, I haven't played Sion since the tank itemization changes, but I mained him throughout S5 and early S6. Mana was what was always holding him back for me, not how much damage I could deal or tank. The best part about a higher shield is you get more mileage out of the high mana cost and you get to use the damage component more reliably, but I'd still rather not have the limitation of only having 12 casts of it in his standard mana pool at max level, which is obviously a lot lower if you start spamming the two relatively low cooldown abilities he has, or if you're working with a level 13 mana pool from having maxed W second. Like if they really want people to max it second they should remove the cost increasing per rank. Maybe a flat 70 or 65. Then you aren't lowering the amount of times you can cast it by ranking it up. (at level 13 he only has 9 casts of max rank W if he isn't casting any other spells, as opposed to 12 casts if it's rank 1)
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: [5/2] Rakan Feedback
Gaining 70 shield per rank was kind of ridiculous. I'm not sure there's another champion with a non-ultimate ability whose value raises that much per rank. Adding a little bit (25) damage to his W is like, nothing compared to lowering that.
: New Rammus feels... wierd
Maybe he needs the Nocturne treatment. While Nocturne gains movement speed towards enemies he's feared, maybe Rammus shouldn't be slowed by W when approaching enemies he's taunted.
Rioter Comments
: As far as I know, randuins got the crit reduction damage from the item removed.
They reverted it back to the old build and gave it 20% crit damage reduction, which was the version I tested. Today's patch might change it around.
: Xayah Ultimate is not healthy.
Xayah has more in common with Talon than Ahri. For example, Xayah barely has any personality aside from wanting to impale people with sharp objects. In contrast, Ahri's only personality trait is wanting to _be_ impaled. Anyway, you might be right, but your reasoning seems flawed. I'm lead to believe it won't be as bad as you seem to think. For one thing, Xayah is indeed very short range. She's in the minority, the 33% of ADCs that have 525 range or lower. There are only 7 other marksmen below that threshold, **all** of which have either a gapcloser or an ability that increases their auto attack range. Xayah has neither of these tools. This means that aggression isn't an option for Xayah; her enemies have to mess up in order for her to get an opening. This weakness is softened slightly by her getting a strong engage, such as from Rakan. As for her DPS, it's average. She does in the realm of 1k dps to a dummy, which is what you expect out of an ADC. The other strengths you list are intended for her, as she was modeled after utility ADCs. Her ultimate still has all the same counterplay that cleanse has, such as baiting it out, or surrounding her so that escape is impossible. What it does mean is that diving her in a teamfight is a risky move. She can still be picked off before or after a fight if she isn't careful. The comparison between Xayah's ultimate and Fiora's Riposte or Fizz's Playful Trickster is ridiculous. Xayah only gets access to it at level 6, and the cooldown is 5 to 10 times longer than the cooldowns Fiora and Fizz are working with. It's not even the same ballpark. Xayah will be very safe on organized teams and her AoE damage will be strong in matches where she isn't zoned out of the fight (her primary counterplay given her low range), but she isn't broken on some fundamental level. Or, at least, not on as severely as you claim.
Rioter Comments
: Shen feels off...
I'd almost suggest a Shen build without Sunfire, as weird as that might sound. Unless they change it again, the idea of it not even getting past even just the old base value until level 15 makes it too unappealing. It might as well only apply to minions right now. While the waveclear is valuable, it's typically going to be more useful in organized play than solo queue, especially tank-themed splitpushing. Damage splitpushers will just have a lot more threat in that you'll probably need to send more than one person to neutralize them, whereas I imagine tanks with Sunfire will barely be able to take on a single opponent with the weaker aura. Try Trinity or maybe Shiv since it got a buff. The attack speed combined with Titanic will make your waveclear decent without sacrificing champion damage. DMP instead of Sunfire, probably.
: Black Cleaver Nerf Exlanation
Dominik's had its armor penetration reduced, though.
: Gangplank probably just shouldn't ignore Armor the way he does honestly. The Gangplank character on Live takes far fewer risks than he was originally intended to (I believe this is the case anyway) as players have learned to optimize barrel gameplay.
I always thought bruiser Gangplank was more fun, it's just that full damage is so much more effective if you abuse barrel chaining. It's his only reliable way to use his barrels, and it encourages playing far back and going full damage. If you give barrels a longer arm time it'd make the long range barrel chains less reliable. You wouldn't be able to set two up and place the third as the first explodes, which was removing a lot of the ability's counterplay anyway. What you could then do is give Gangplank more tools to use barrels in melee range and encourage him to get in peoples faces. If his passive is up, then his melee attack should be able to instantly detonate a barrel regardless of its remaining health. He gives up a lot--you don't get the passive refresh or the Q damage for the barrel, but it's quick and reliable in a fight, and gives tankier GPs better access to their crowd control. It also introduces the idea of detonating a barrel and placing one on top of it to blow up right after. (though not immediately after, because the introduction of a longer time before it's active like mentioned above) This rewards skillful Gangplank players for properly detonating a barrel, especially on an opponent, with a chance to follow up with another if they're close enough to their target to capitalize. This gives additional incentive to be in melee range, where Gangplank will be forced to build a defensive item or two and be more brawly, maybe actually build a hydra item instead of going full pen or crit, etc. Yasuo has a similar problem imo. He doesn't have a lot of counterplay with how bursty he is, it's only actually fun to play against bruiser Yasuos because there's time for skill expression to happen. It's more interactive.
: Doesnt work on inhibs nexus, works minions, champions, monsters, allied or enemies
Seems right. ~~Have you tried plants or scuttle?~~ Shoulda figured plants were a no-go. Big blue glowy crab pal is 10/10 tho.
: While the slow strength buff to Randuin's is good, I don't see a lot of reason to pick it up if it only offers the slow and the crit damage reduction is removed. Also while I love love LOVE Abyssal Scepter being a tank item, it sounds like it will just be there to increase the ambient magic damage in a fight and coordinate with teammates. Is there any chance the damage amp effect will do anything similar to Black Cleaver? I agree with the other changes, and love the changes to GA and the new items. It'll be incredibly satisfying to beaf up my tank in a teamfight. Will Adaptive Helm work on effects like Kog'Maw's W, or Brand's passive? EDIT: Would Adaptive Helm work on the first instance of magic damage once its passive is on cooldown? Like if Cassiopeia hits a tank with Q-E-E-E would it reduce the damage of the Q poison or E damage? Do you worry new Abyssal will be used by mages/assassins as a bruiser item to sure up their weakness of being squishy without losing too much damage?
If it applies spell effects it'll probably count. Brand's passive will for sure.
: Isn't the refocus from hp to resist slightly beneficial for tanks? I mean, let's say tanks have access to roughly 10% more armor. After getting 45% stripped off, they would still end up with more resistances than they do now. And with overall health being lessened, items like botrk and Whisper would be indirectly affected.
Take Sunfire Cape for example, my gut tells me 75 health is better than 5.5 armor (10 added, 5.5 after being reduced by lw) even in the endgame. This is true through gold value at least (75 health is 200 gold, 5.5 armor is about 110 gold) But I guess I haven't done the math on it. The Randuins nerf still stands, though.
: As posted in [this](https://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bugs/KgKU7P2o-banner-of-command) thread, you also get all the gold from anyone you tag with Banner, and it can be cast on enemies. This is so fruity.
http://i.imgur.com/aznVmJb.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Wgzie2T.jpg Banner on Herald and Baron! Nice. Haven't tried towers or allied minions yet. Bannering enemy bots makes bot games funny. Looks like you can cast it on anything. Dunno about turrets, I'm gonna try them next. EDIT http://i.imgur.com/Mdt1AIA.jpg http://i.imgur.com/icvV4Pn.jpg Doesn't seem to work on Nexus? Haven't tried Inhibitors yet, but I think I'm done experimenting.
: Banner of Command Self-Cast
As posted in [this](https://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bugs/KgKU7P2o-banner-of-command) thread, you also get all the gold from anyone you tag with Banner, and it can be cast on enemies. This is so fruity.
: Here are some initial impressions on things that I think are extremely problematic and will 100% cause balance issues if they released to live as is. - Banshee's Veil - EXPERIMENTAL/Abyssal Scepter - EXPERIMENTAL Honestly this change is just flat out awful and quite mind boggling. Spell shields are extremely powerful but also EXTREMELY annoying/unfun to deal with from a gameplay perspective. Are you forgetting the huge problems Edge of Night caused when it was buffed, or the reasons you nerfed Banshee's Veil originally? Making spell shield so accessible by basically giving it to every AP champion would be both overpowered and would make gameplay very annoying/unfun. Spell shields totally screw over combo mages/mages with long cooldowns like Lux. Furthermore this is a flat out nerf across the board to AP champions who you are already hitting by providing mr/lvl to everyone and buffing MR itemization. Abyssal is a near mandatory item now in the current state of the game on most AP champions because of damage creep and removal of Athene's as a viable mage item. - Adaptive Helm You say this item is 'niche' buts its anything but. Its stats are too broad and inclusive and in its current state it will merely be a 100% buy for tanks/divers in place of Spirit Visage and Banshees Veil. This item simply does too much, remove the health regen and CDR and the item is in a better spot. Furthermore this item shows the clear bias you guys have had against magic damage in itemization over the last little while, massively buffing MR itemization while nerfing/failing to add additional physical damage mitigation items. This isnt even a wild conspiracy theory at this point since look back at all recent item changes shows massive buffs to MR items. You say Adaptive Helm is supposed to be akin to Randuins as a top tier mitigation item and then nerf Randuins so its no longer a top tier sustained damage migitation item by removing its crit damage reduction?
If Abyssal is mandatory on most mages because of their low magic resist, then shouldn't giving them mr per level be helpful for them? It certainly benefits strategies that don't take mr glyphs and fully invest into magic penetration. (they'll still deal true damage to someone with 12 flat mr glyphs even after the addition of 9 more base mr, and they get more defensive stats) You might have a good point but this particular argument doesn't make a ton of sense. I think Riot is trying to cement the rock paper scissors mentality of mages beat ADCs, ADCs beat tanks, tanks beat mages. Mages beat ADCs: The removal of Banshees as an option for most ADCs, the removal of Magic Resist from GA. ADCs beat tanks: The removal of crit reduction from Randuins, the refocus of most tank items to having more armor and less health. (when most adcs buy 45% bonus armor reduction) Tanks beat mages: The addition of all these magic resist tank items.
: Midseason Durability Feedback
The idea of giving a lot of defensive items lower health but more resist is kind of weird. It'll help champs that naturally get free health like Sion and Cho'Gath a lot, but... how is this supposed to help the lategame of other champions? More bonus armor isn't very useful in a world of 45% bonus armor penetration for 1300 gold. In lane it'll just mean most tanks will buy Corrupting Potion to make up for the health difference and have the extra resists synergize with the cheap health it provides, or wait to finish their items to get a little extra health on the side. It might make Warmogs or items like Righteous Glory more common in full builds. Randuins may be cheap and effective but it isn't slot efficient anymore. The crit reduction was key to making it relevant in the lategame. Most builds will probably skip it now aside from niche situations where you really need to lower attack speed.
: Xayah and Rakan Feedback Thread
Xayah's kit seems really boring build-wise. She doesn't have the same options a lot of other adcs have, she's forced into a pure crit build. At best she could get a Botrk. Rakan's is better and has some interesting intricacies with how AP, CDR, and AS improve his tankiness through his Passive and his Q's heal. Making him as tanky as possible doesn't just boil down to tank stats, you'd also want items like Nashor's Tooth for example to increase your sustain in a fight. This is diminished somewhat by him being a support with 4+ predetermined items in his build, but it's intriguing. Xayah's VO is also a little boring. Some of it is writing, some of it is the deadpan delivery. Maybe lore beyond being a murderous bird person will help, but y'know. Otherwise, I think Xayah and Rakan are an interesting pair of champions.
: Xayah's Attack Speed
Rakan has a more reasonable base AS and far superior base AD. If you ask me he should be the ADC and Xayah should be the support. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: Rakan & Xayah Bug Thread
Xayah will occasionally become unable to auto attack until she moves or uses some abilities. It seems to have something to do with casting her Q and W in a particular way, but I haven't found a reliable way to recreate it yet. I do have a recording of it, however. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNJFlTcjWTE Found it by comboing away at a dummy trying to stack Manamune. You can see in the cut that it took me about 5 or 6 minutes of combos to recreate it after finding it the first time.
: http://i65.tinypic.com/2u74xv8.png According to the text on Xayah's W, her basic attacks strike an additional time at 20% damage. I assume this is like Runaan's proc (Or Master Yi's passive), and should apply on-hit effects, but after extensive testing in Practice Tool it appears that this is not the case. Bug, or badly written text on W? Thanks! {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}} Clarification Edit: It states that basic attacks strike an additional time, thus seeming to state that on-hit and on-attack effects would be applied on the additional strikes.
Seems like just a bad tooltip, but maybe a bug. It displays the additional hit as a separate tick of damage, but it doesn't apply another stack of cleaver despite being physical damage separate from the original attack. This is different from other champions who have abilities with similar effects, like Ashe's Q.
: Galio E has more range when used from a base wall
Not sure that this is as much of a bug as a neat interaction of not being able to back up. A good thing to know about.
: Updated changelist, thanks for all the feedback. Keep them coming!
Could you guys make it so that when his shield absorbs damage he gains a percentage of it back as mana, like a built-in eternity passive? Maybe increase his mana costs to compensate? I really want him to feel more like he's absorbing or "eating" magic rather than just shrugging it off. Him saying "I eat magic!" just feels really empty right now. There's a disconnect between that and his kit. All I need is a mechanical excuse to believe that he's actually absorbing the magic. Any little thing to suggest that would do the trick.
: Great layout of some builds. Ill have to try out some of them. As for my two Hextec items. Its one for Team fights, the other for 1v1 and with a 40s CD I dont have to really worry about using one.
They're lowering his base damage on his passive and giving it an AP ratio, so it changes some of the math. Sunfire is no longer a competitive damage option for second item. Trinity is less damage than Lich now at most points in the game, and while Maw previously did as much damage as a Roa it's now not even worth considering. Build options are a little more limited. Optimal build is looking like {{item:3001}}{{item:3030}}{{item:3151}}{{item:3135}}{{item:3025}} In that order, approximately. You can derail the build at any point to go pure tank if your team needs it. However, Abyssal is absolutely essential for your damage and should be your first item in every build. The changes have only made it a better rush on Galio. The only situation you'd get another item is if you you got into a bad matchup against an ad champ that you can't fight, then you'd want GLP/Roa first instead to make the lane easier. That build is more greedy, though. It's about getting the best option at the time as you level up and have enough gold to get your next item. But, there's also a build more like this one. {{item:3001}}{{item:3089}}{{item:3100}}{{item:3135}} + {{item:3143}} / {{item:3068}} / {{item:3157}} / {{item:3065}} This one is from the perspective of a final build, and ends up dealing more damage while being only a little less tanky. It also has less cdr depending on what last item you get, and is more expensive.
: Unfortunately Galio players critical opinions will go ignored because it's a smaller base than Lee win fans who had a similar opinion and changes were stopped to appease his base.
If Lee got a full update including new visuals there wouldn't be much they could do about it either. Getting all this art done and the voice acting costs a lot of money. It'd take a miracle to convince them to spend even more redoing any rework of this scope, or to throw their money away by scrapping it.
: Galio Builds
Abyssal is his best starting item by far. It improves his combo so much that it's pretty much mandatory. Second item is more iffy. Roa/GLP would be good for sustain. Gauntlet and Trinity do good damage. Lich would be good as well, but you need some more ap than Abyssal before it does more damage than Trinity. The best option for second item is probably Sunfire since it'll make you insanely tanky compared to your other options while still doing pretty good dps. Part of why is because Sunfire synergizes so well with Abyssal in general. Third item and onwards is more subjective. It depends on what you need. If you're gonna get tank stats next, your third damage item might be a Trinity, or maybe Gauntlet if you don't mind doing far less damage and need the 65 armor. You'd build either of those as your third item if your last two items are gonna be tank stats like Visage and Randuins. Both Gauntlet and Trinity benefit from Galio's passive turning them into magic damage, which Abyssal will amplify. Abyssal + Trinity/Gauntlet + Visage gets you to 40% CDR. The other build is more AP bruiser. For third item you get Liandrys and fourth is Void. Fifth is Gauntlet to get you a bit tankier and get your CDR. You're fairly tanky but you also have a lot of penetration to utilize your base damage and the % health on your q very effectively. This is a similar build to what bruiser Ekko gets, for example. You can also build Lich Bane since with Abyssal+Liandrys+Void it starts to deal good damage, but then you're starting to get pretty squishy. At that point you wouldn't really want Sunfire in your build since you're being more of a mage, and wouldn't want to stand around in the middle of the enemy team to make the most of its damage. Rabadons/Morello/GLP/Roa/Gunblade would all make great substitutes. Your build you posted makes a pretty good sustain tank build. You heal a decent amount off of your passive and spells, combined with the eternity passive and visage you regenerate a respectable amount of health. Having multiple hextech items is a little suboptimal though, and grievous wounds would remove most of the strengths of that build. Would be kind of good for dueling, maybe replace GLP with Roa. The biggest problem with it is that it lacks magic penetration, which is important for what is essentially a bruiser build. (items in rough purchase order) Tank {{item:3001}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3078}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3065}} Bruiser {{item:3001}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3151}} {{item:3135}} {{item:3025}} Mage {{item:3001}} {{item:3151}} {{item:3089}} {{item:3135}} {{item:3100}} Boots are of course flexible. I reached my conclusions on building him through a spreadsheet and lots of math. Maw gets an honorable mention for providing as much magic damage to your combo as a fully stacked Roa. It's pretty funny and might be useful in niche situations (prevent magic damage executions like garen ult?) but he scales too well with other items to make it really worthwhile at any point. His passive can crit by the way, adding another 100% ad to its damage. I wouldn't try it in an actual game but it's funny against bots, I recommend giving it a go just for fun. Reminds me of ye olde Runeglaive. You'd still want Void and Abyssal to amplify your passive's damage when it crits though. 2.5 as also looks pretty funny if you want to try it in a practice mode or something. If you're wanting to ruin an all ap team's day you could also do {{item:3001}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3102}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3135}} And be really hard to kill while doing a lot of damage with your passive from all of your mr. More of a silly build though. A second or even third Visage might even be worthwhile over Void, Maw, or Banshees since Visage is a very very gold efficient item, even without its unique passive. Just as an example, 6 visages gives you 35,000 effective health against magic damage on Galio, with 70 hp per second regen. It's pretty silly, but legit against an all ap team. At a certain point a mage's auto attacks are most of their damage against you, even if they're full ap, lmao.
: Galio Feedback Thread
Galio talks a lot about "eating magic" and how he gets more powerful around it, but it's all talk. When I play him I don't _feel_ like I'm feeding off of magic. There's none of that narrative in his kit, aside from vaguely some magic resist scaling on his passive. Why not give him some sort of buff when his W's magic shield is depleted? He's just absorbed some magic, shouldn't it make him more powerful? Being able to move his shield to other allies would also bring back a lot of his supportive qualities he used to have, and feed into the fantasy of being a protector. When the magic shield on your ally gets depleted, you get stronger so that you can help them out. It'd also make it feel less like a copy of Malphite's passive. Anything like this would work really well with his fantasy, and differentiate him from his peers as far as fantasy/narrative. You could change the visuals on all of Galio's abilities to be black and red and involve a sword, and they'd fit perfectly on Aatrox. He isn't thematically unique with his abilities. It might be a high bar to expect a champion's mechanics to perfectly mirror their themes, but I've come to expect the best from Riot. As far as the VO, he has some great lines and the actor delivered them brilliantly. But, while I don't dislike the personality in and of itself, it's dissonant for me on Galio. Before he was a wise, introspective gargoyle. Now, he's a buffoonish statue with all the self-awareness of a gnat. His mind is as clear as mud. {{champion:223}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:223}} He's a less interesting character for it, even if it's comedic. It's a missed opportunity to have a character with a fundamental understanding of Demacia's values and politics, and wanting to protect them while still having an objective view of it all. More patriotic perhaps, as opposed to most other Demacia champs that are nationalistic. (Garen, Xin, Jarvan, etc) A lot of Demacia champs present themselves as pretty dumb or shallow at this point, honestly. Could have used a change of pace.
: I think we pressed the champ at the same time
Were you able to start the game with two galios? lol
: Athene's Unholy Grail never worked on Gallo. He could only heal himself with his W.
I can only assume he's referring to back long ago, in a faraway land, when Athene's was 90 ap and 40 mr. It used to solve his mana problems and give him 110 ap in one item. It was definitely Galio's staple item that he always rushed. That Athenes hasn't been around for many moons, though.
: Galio will need added ap ratio on passive and ap ratio on w to be viable as a battle mage.
He already has better ap ratios than most mages, and they aren't very long cooldowns. Much better ratios than old Galio for sure, don't see how he needs even more.
: My Galio Feedback/Rant -- What Isn't a Galio?
They went for a textbook superhero attitude for him. Run in and punch things, save the day. Nothing to do with his original attitude, yeah. It seems like Riot should try and get in touch with the communities that play the champions they're reworking. There's a lot of people upset over in /r/galiomains right now, for example. Those are the kind of people Riot should get in touch with when doing a rework, and I'm not sure that they did. Like, start a thread on there talking with them and stuff. It'd be interesting if he had something like Zeke's Harbinger except maybe it makes you tankier, so he could spend time in the backline, but maybe when a fight is going on and the person he's linked to takes some damage he gets a strong buff that makes him want to go in. Idk. Seems like it would fit his identity better. Maybe increase his E cooldown so it's a riskier ability to use so you're incentivized to hold onto it for the perfect moment rather than using it as much as possible in fights for the gapcloser and damage. Puts him more in the direction of off-tank mage as opposed to ap fighter. A new VO that sounds more "wise" like how old Galio was portrayed would help a lot too. (there's a ton of good one liners in there, he just come across as daft) edit: Thinking about it some more, it'd be easy to implement the zeke's harbinger-esque passive idea. Just make it so that when his W's passive shield runs out, he gets some sort of buff. Totally fits with the theme of absorbing magic to get stronger. Then, let him move his magic damage shield to allies, so they can deplete the magic damage shield and give him the buff, like the damage reduction he gets now plus something else. Tada, he's a protector that gets fed by magic damage to go in and murder things. Only problem is you'd have to move the taunt off of his W to let him select targets to move the shield to. How about his passive? While he's powered up from the magic shield being depleted, procing his passive causes the taunt to all targets hit, or even a larger aoe. Now he's an even better protector, he can peel/engage after absorbing damage when an ally is in a crisis. He'd be so much cooler. Then having his shield apply on ulting an ally would make a lot more sense, you're trying to get the shield depleted so you get powered up.
Rioter Comments
: Everyone's walking speech plays way to much in this game mode. I was playing {{champion:85}} and my walking speech would not stop throughout the whole game.
That's in custom games too and probably in 5s. It's just a bug this pbe patch on all game modes seems like.
: Hunt of the Blood Moon game mode available shortly on PBE
This game mode is short and sweet... perhaps a bit too short and sweet. It's over before I have time to savor it. {{champion:223}} You spend almost as much time playing the game mode as you do finding and loading into a match for it. It also feels kind of flat, you don't necessarily have to watch out for an enemy being stronger than the rest; everyone has the same amount of gold no matter how well they do. Fun, but not engaging. Lacks tension. It'd be cooler if demon power dealt more damage, but you were partially revealed when close to a champion, but untargettable, like Oracle's reveal where it's just a red blip. That way they get a moment for the inevitability of their demise to sink in. Or, you get a moment to be spooped. The map itself also feels kind of passive to me. Without the focus on lanes or the vision from minions, the map feels flat. Maybe some kind of special passive thing that happens in the river to do with blood. Buying chain vests needs to be disabled if you're wanting people to be squishy, since they don't even build into anything. People buy like three of them to not take damage from AD champs. Maybe make the base components for resists twice as expensive in this game mode.
: Here's my take after playing it for a bit. 1) It just feels... unsatisfying. It's very short, I barely get 4 items, and it is really just go kill someone they kill you someone else kills them... and then eventually you respawn and get out just in time to kill the last man standing from that fight. And then the next enemy up kills you. Rinse repeat. In most of my games, the teams have had nearly the same amount of kills because of the nature of assassins. They are upfront burst on a target to kill them, and then they can't do much until their admittedly not-too-long cooldowns are done. This is a problem if you blow your load to kill someone, and then another assassin walks up and blows their load on you, because you can't do anything since you've already done your thing, and everyone you see will do that to you. 2) Demon/Herald. I have a lot of problems with the herald. The rest of the game is practically irrelevant; the team that gets more heralds will almost always win. And it's not just because the better team will get more heralds, it's because getting herald gets you a full 10% of the way to winning. That would be like if killing normal Rift Herald destroyed an enemy turret and a half. That would be silly. The herald giving 30/300 points needed to win just tips the game so much because, as aforementioned, kills are pretty much equal, so both teams are moving about the same pace to winning, and then after killing herald one team just gets jumped ahead a few miles. And then they continue to go at an even pace, so they just reach 300 faster because they got the herald. 3) The ghosts are pretty much irrelevant because of the issue with heralds. Why bother going for a 3 point ghost when you can just kill some people going for yours and then take a herald. Boom you win. Need a ton of ghost kills to match it, and its not really noticeable if either team is getting more ghosts; they're really only useful for getting stacks for the super buff. I've once almost come back using the ghosts as a big help, but the problem is the other team can just go kill one or two ghosts and win if they're already close to winning, and since you can't see them, and there are so many ghosts, you can't really tell where they'll go, so you can't really stop them from taking it. (This is as opposed to ascension, with a similar objective mechanic). 4) I'd say there are a few ways of fixing this. Any combination of fixes could do, I wouldn't know. A definite must is making the game last longer, probably by increasing the point goal. Reducing Herald point value would be good, or increasing its spawn timer. Ghosts should either have their point value increased or removed. They should either feel worthwhile for winning the game or a mechanic for getting kills ready. I'm favorable to increasing value. With increased value, it would be good to make it so that any enemy nearby gets shown on map, or some other means of being able to know where to go to make a holdout to attempt a comeback Overall, I absolutely love the concept of this mode and have been really excited about it since I saw the assets go out yesterday, but it needs some adjustments to make it more satisfying and interesting. Right now it feels very repetitive. Also, and I know it's been asked a lot, but I think having a wider champion pool would be good, as defensive items are removed anyway, and due to the value of kills, only champions who could viably build hard damage would actually get play, however it would feel a bit less forced and a bit less trade killing all the time
Pretty sure the reason for 2 is to try and add some cohesion to the match. You have a reason to group up and teamfight for an objective when the Herald is worth so many points, instead of just roaming around the map looking for picks. But it only shows up every now and then, so it isn't a constant distraction from the sprawling bloodbath. For 3, The ghosts are useful because they give you a stack towards demon power. Combine three of them with a fairly free champion kill and you get 14 points, which isn't bad. Definitely wish the game was longer though. Seems to last about 10 minutes, i think it could go at least 15. (probably about 500 point goal for that)
: blood moon mode
AD have Maw of Malmortius and Edge of Night.
: Uhmm you're speaking like camille can be played heavy damage and get away with it. She can't, she's a diver, she's expected to go in and often, if she goes alone, the team can lock her down cause she cannot oneshot easly anyone, she needs time to do it. Also now Camille is more often played with triforce and titanic then full tank...the Q is a nerf unnecessary cause very few play her heavy damage. And you're avoiding the winrate stats, she's at a 51% on op.gg and 50% on lolalytics, that's already spoke on her real damage treat. She's just the trend of the moment, none here is really looking at the stats but it's just "omg she's too op" "she can doubleshots me if i'm fed" well, she's design like that (she's like riven or fiora and both these of champs can easly oneshots you when they're fed so...It's seems to me that these are nerfs given not to real stats but only on her banrate (which isn't reliable as the winratio) - You spoke about "it isn't just squishies she's dominating" have you played fiora? xD She does like the double damage that camille does and it's true damage (just as her second Q). I repeat, i'm ok with the E and W nerfs, but not with the Q, her only real damage cannot be taken away her purpose as a 1v1 duelist is going to be take away.
Fiora and Riven don't have he same reliable engage that Camille does. If the Q nerf doesn't impact most common Camille builds, then it isn't really a big deal. I'm glad we agree there. Winrate isn't a very useful statistic. If it's extremely low or extremely high it can signify a problem with game health, but that doesn't mean a champion is balanced if they're at 50%. Camille is also still a relatively new champion, so it's an even less reliable statistic.
: it seems noone can beat Darius,he's just op. Noone can fight him....do you think it's fair? Please tell me a melee champion that can stay in lane without having to try to dodge every single Q Because when Camille hits enemies with W is good if you can dodge 50% of her W you are ok..if you dodge 3/6 Darius's Q you are forced to go out of lane because you took 3 of them. After he gets 1 kill lane is over,he will just kill you every time...auto attack Q and R. He has sustain,low mana abilities (why not increas Q mana cost???) OP health regeneration base. Please again...tell me just 1 melee champion that can stay in lane vs him takig farm without problem mid lane and not only under tower. Apart from Renekton that is maybe the best in lane but he's not Op because in team figths he loses much of his power.
As strong as Darius may be, he's an immobile champion. You can use that to your advantage to control when fights happen. Force him to have to pull you to fight you, and get tanky enough to survive his initial combo. If you have a decent escape you should be able to disengage after he's used up his W and E. Rushing a Sunfire and Tabi can be powerful ways to turn fights in your favor and control the lane. If you can't stop him from hitting his Q and sustaining from it in fights then you might want to consider getting an Executioner's Calling, since for only 800 gold it'll significantly decrease how much he heals from it. If his Q poke is a problem, stand in a position where he's forced to hit minions if he wants to hit you with it. That'll start pushing the wave towards you so you can be safe under tower. Freeze the wave there if possible. You can kill Darius with jungle support with most champions if you can poke him down whatsoever. Warwick, Trundle, Fiora, Mundo, Maokai, and Nasus should be able sustain through Darius's poke/trades and disengage before he hits max stacks, and perhaps even beat him one on one during midgame. Trundle and Yorick can create terrain that would provide extremely powerful peel if used properly. Garen and Olaf can even ignore his W's slow, and in Olaf's case also Darius's E, to disengage. Malphite should be able to poke him out and outrun him with his Q. Sion can just ultimate away if things get hairy. Illaoi can poke Darius out, and might even be able to blow up Darius before he can get his stacks if she plays it right. Many champions, including the ones I just mentioned, have options to survive a lane with Darius without breaking under the pressure. As long as they keep up solid play until midgame they should be able to take out or at least preoccupy Darius (whose entire point is to be a lane bully) by themselves. A lot of this potential counterplay doesn't apply to Camille simply because she is so mobile and can force you to stay in an area with her. That's why it's an issue that she doesn't even need to snowball to win any duel she wants. And she isn't just a lane bully, she's also an initiator than can assassinate a squishy. She can roam and force a kill midlane if she wants to, something that would be difficult for Darius.
: Yeah she has counter, darius and poppy first line, but if you think about it, there aren't many squishy top laners that she can overwelm, even fiora is tronger than her (cause they both want sustained trading and fiora wins for her passive procs). I think she's simply overrated and that these nerf are gonna gut her down. She's already at 50%, she's gonna be even worse after that. The Q damage is too much imho (at least they could make it scales better to the old status at maximum Q level so people have to choose between E and Q in lane). But these changes are too much. edit: btw i think they're nerfing so much her only because she's a pick or ban in competitive, and not on her real value.
The problem right now is her damage and innate tankiness are so high that it isn't just squishies she's dominating. The difference between doubling the damage and boosting it by 70% isn't very much. It might hurt heavy damage builds but aside from that it's relatively minor. It'll be good for clamping down on her edge cases where she does insane damage. The mana costs and halved stun duration are more important for most Camilles. If she's too weak after this patch they'll buff her after the hype dies down. As a new champion she won't be coming off their radar for a little while.
: Aside from the animation bugs while reloading that have already been mentioned, my biggest complaint would be design and lighting. His shoulder pad area in particular doesn't read very well for me, and from some angles can look sort of odd. A decent example is of one of the slides in the OP. http://i.imgur.com/QhBS7O9.png The shoulder closer to us is darker than the other that's farther away, which clashes a lot with the lighting of the rest of the scene and messes with my sense of perspective. It makes him hard to visually parse for me, and seem kind of flat or noisy from some angles. His torso in general looks kind of muddy, it's hard to tell its exact orientation from the screenshot. It doesn't pass the squint test. From many angles It can also look a lot like the shoulder pad is coming out of the back of Jhin's head, as if it were hair. I don't know if this is intentional, but this bad sense of layering tends to obscure his actual shape and layout. This is only really a problem in screenshots, though. In the actual game it's easier to understand his shape and form while he's moving around. Looks good there.
Here's a quick and dirty example of what I think would make Blood Moon Jhin easier to look at. http://i.imgur.com/hgg9GSJ.gif An extra, short tendril/tail thing coming out of his shoulder that ends and turns red very early helps to demonstrate the flow and orientation of the shoulder area, causing it to not look like it's coming out of his head from some angles. His shoulder and arm are a bit shinier. I think you could even make his shoulder white like his mask and guns and it would look pretty good. If you brighten basically his entire chest area it makes his torso's orientation easier to read. The little band around his forearm is also kind of messing with the chunk the the demon gauntlet thing that, from this angle, should be the brightest and stick out the most in order to demonstrate the roundness of the forearm. It makes for a really weak shape. Maybe the band could be sourced from that chunk instead or under it or something, or just not be there at all. http://i.imgur.com/uuEzm7F.gif I know it isn't as easy as what I've shown since it has to look good from all angles and Jhin contorts around a lot, but I hope this helps explain a bit of what I mean. I've been pretty critical here but I actually do like the skin a lot. Thanks for the hard work rito. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: He looks like Amon from Legend of Korra, but I agree with SleepyDragon the Q needs something to stand out or add some variance
That's who came to mind for me too. Looks pretty awesome.
: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Blood Moon Jhin!
Aside from the animation bugs while reloading that have already been mentioned, my biggest complaint would be design and lighting. His shoulder pad area in particular doesn't read very well for me, and from some angles can look sort of odd. A decent example is of one of the slides in the OP. http://i.imgur.com/QhBS7O9.png The shoulder closer to us is darker than the other that's farther away, which clashes a lot with the lighting of the rest of the scene and messes with my sense of perspective. It makes him hard to visually parse for me, and seem kind of flat or noisy from some angles. His torso in general looks kind of muddy, it's hard to tell its exact orientation from the screenshot. It doesn't pass the squint test. From many angles It can also look a lot like the shoulder pad is coming out of the back of Jhin's head, as if it were hair. I don't know if this is intentional, but this bad sense of layering tends to obscure his actual shape and layout. This is only really a problem in screenshots, though. In the actual game it's easier to understand his shape and form while he's moving around. Looks good there.
: I know, it's not like I am badmouthing you for posting here. However now that it does exists, you should post it there.
My apologies, intent doesn't always transfer well through text unfortunately.
: win rate 48.5%...so op Try to 1v1 vs Darius and tell me who is stronger and who needs nerfs to damage. They could nerf mana and maybe range of E but not damage of Q and stun (second hit...the true damage..her most important ability). It's like to cut 30% of the damage of Noxian Guillotine. After these changes noone will ban her because there is no reason to doi. Of course she can win games and do good,every champion can do. Her second hit with Q is so predictable that can be countered by champions like Fiora,Jax,Shen and even Teemo. They can all block auto attacks. Fiora can revert her stun. Darius doesn't need to do anything. just Spin W and dunk
Maybe she isn't supposed to beat Darius. She's strong against squishies who are more susceptible to her true damage, since they don't build health. Darius isn't a squishy, and could even be considered a counter because Camille's W (Tactical Sweep) tends to have her position in the butter zone for Darius's Q (Decimate). That's an easy way to lose the lane for yourself. She'll never go completely out of style while her ultimate essentially makes her a better Jarvan IV, and can deal true damage on top of it all.
: It is so he can build Abyssal Scepter or Liandry's Torment some games, and if you are really ballsy to build Nashor's Tooth. Ultimately it is for Baron Buff.
I'm not saying that Rageblade and Gunblade are optimal items on him, just that some people liked to buy them on old Warwick, and would like to continue to buy them after his rework. It also keeps old guides that might recommend such items from becoming noob traps. Baron buff is also a consideration, but plenty of champions have no AP ratios to speak of, so it's obviously not the deciding factor. Abyssal is an interesting idea, but you shouldn't be building Liandry's Torment. You're better off buying Botrk, where you'll heal more than Liandry's 300 health during a fight, deal more damage off of 25 AD than 80 AP, and deal more current health % damage than Liandry's passive ever will on Warwick. Plus you get an active. AP Warwick might be funny, but it's definitely inefficient in the long run. In this case Nashor's does less damage than Wit's End if you have less than 166 AP, which would require and additional AP item or two on top of Nashors. You might as well jut buy Wit's End and get CDR somewhere else.
: Instead, post it on the [Official Blood Moon Jhin Bug Thread.](http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-pbe-feedback/EzUEcluL-pbe-bugs-feedback-thread-blood-moon-jhin)
That thread didn't exist when I posted this. Check the time stamps. Reposting it there would be redundant at this point since, to quote Riot LoveStrut, > these bugs are definitely on our radar and should be getting fixed soon! <3
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CrazedMLC

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