: Comprehensive Feedback on Taliyah
I agree with all of the comments here. I hope riot takes some of this stuff to heart. To add I really believe the ap ratio on the Q needs to be higher. Not only are her base damages lower in comparison to other control mages but so is the ratio. You should be able to throw the e out just a tiny bit further. I feel at times that I need to get too close to the enemy to make use of the E. Another note on damage. Her ult does no damage, I'm pretty surprised that there wasn't much compensation for this. At this current state I would much rather play lissandra than her.
: Taliyah's W should smart cast like Viktor's E or Rumble's R
Yeah her W is a real pain. I also feel that the "short delay" from the second you hit w till when it actually goes through is too long.
: Syndra ult capped at 7 sphere, why?
You guys severely overestimate your ability to get 7 sphere ultimates in a teamfight(getting a 10 sphere ult in a fight is a complete joke btw). Being able to do this in a custom game does not count at all. If a player can manage to get 8 spheres out in a teamfight they deserve it. I'm only a diamond player. But to add a bit of more backing to my words. If master tier and consistent high elo diamond syndra mains feel that 8-9 ults should be allowed based on the fact that it would be very difficult to be getting those off there has to be something to what they are saying. I can do a lot of things in a custom game but I can't do those same things in an actual high level game.
Rioter Comments
: Morellonomicon 2900g cost, why?
The 400 flat mana was put in to replace the regen that was taken out. That shouldn't in my opinion be taken into consideration when assessing the item cost. It should be a 1 to 1 swap.
Rioter Comments
: Have you considered allowing Quick Cast with Indicators to work with Noxious Blast? I don't understand why that ability should be always quick cast. So few spells don't let you choose how to cast them, and this one doesn't have anything I can see to justify this special case.
> [{quoted}](name=Morrivar,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=Xa76vyBQ,comment-id=002b,timestamp=2016-04-21T16:41:21.959+0000) > > Have you considered allowing Quick Cast with Indicators to work with Noxious Blast? I don't understand why that ability should be always quick cast. So few spells don't let you choose how to cast them, and this one doesn't have anything I can see to justify this special case. I agree with this 100%. I really hope they put this in.
: Viktor Main Feedback on his Changes
Putting a grounded effect on the ult would be insanely strong. Way way too strong. You would need to have the ult move at the pace of a snail and increase the tick interval to allow something like that.
: > [{quoted}](name=typervader4,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=5l5k2EjF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-20T18:45:14.614+0000) > > I don't see an issue. The changes they made werent even that large. They made her playsyle more like it should be. They gavve her better Ap ratios. WHAT is the issue? Apparently her kit does like 15% less damage in a rotation. However the stuns are easier to land now and yeah the AP ratios got buffed. Also it makes her ultimate actually require a setup to work as intended.
> [{quoted}](name=The Dread Pirate,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=5l5k2EjF,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-20T19:39:17.743+0000) > > Apparently her kit does like 15% less damage in a rotation. However the stuns are easier to land now and yeah the AP ratios got buffed. Also it makes her ultimate actually require a setup to work as intended. Her ult currently requires a setup to work efficiently, now its just easier to consistently land 6-7 sphere ults. The pbe changes still require the same setup.
: Hi Repertoir. I'm a Master Tier Cassio main - here's my initial thoughts on the changes. Big fan of the Twin Fang change - I think it's cool that buying CDR on Cass won't feel bad like it has in the past. Two things that really bother me though: You said Q gives more MS but for less duration - how much less? One of the things that I like about Cassio is that if you are consistent with landing Q you effectively have a permanent move speed buff. Having it drop off before the poison drops off seems clunky and is one of the only things that I actually dislike about Cassio right now before she gets her 250 stacks. (Q is 4 second CD while MS is only 3 seconds). It feels really off until you hit that CDR point. I REALLY dislike that Miasma has a fixed range. I feel like that takes away a lot of Cassio's outplay potential against so many champions. One of my favorite things about Cassio right now is her ability to duel anybody in the game and the fact that Miasma could be throw on top of yourself was THE way of dealing with melee champions that used their mobility to avoid your Q. I'm actually super disappointed in this. It's what makes me dislike Aurelion Sol so much (and I wanted to like him so badly) - his Q has a minimum cast range and he just feels absolutely useless if the enemy gets in your face. I get that it's for balance / counterplay reasons but I feel like that get in your face = you lose counterplay should be reserved for champions like Xerath and Lux where their big advantage is actually range. Not a fan at all. Other battle ranges like Viktor / Vlad / Karthus and disruptors like Anivia can cast their abilities melee range to deal with people in their face. I can't even begin to describe how much I dislike this change...it basically kills one of my favorite things about Cass and totally deflated the excitement I had for the rework.
What are your thoughts on her passive? She feels awfully slow for a good period of time to me.
: MYMU - Cassiopeia Discussion
@RiotRepertoir What are your thoughts on the passive? At first I thought it would be awesome that she has an extra item slot open. However when playing in lane the 328 base movement speed and slow increase in movement speed over levels started to drive me insane. I think I really just appreciated buying some boots relatively early and having access to a decent bit of speed. Now I feel like I have to wait till level 12 before I feel comfortable with the speed. I'd be willing to give the item slow up in place of boots and a different passive. This is ignoring the movement speed you gain when you hit a q on an enemy champion of course.
: About Hextech I mean I'm talking about the item, not Annie itself. Another champs like Ekko can abuse with this item too. I think a dash is good for inmobile champs in this meta but maybe needs more cd or only dash forward for example. But this dash can't pass walls, its something.
> [{quoted}](name=ricardo21,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=4grOkEhn,comment-id=001c000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-20T13:46:26.946+0000) > > About Hextech I mean I'm talking about the item, not Annie itself. Another champs like Ekko can abuse with this item too. > I think a dash is good for inmobile champs in this meta but maybe needs more cd or only dash forward for example. But this dash can't pass walls, its something. Well yeah its something. However there is a big difference between annie using this item and ekko. Annie will be blowing flashes constantly from other players with this item. Even with the small spell lockout duration. It's just not something I want to see put into league of legends. I honestly believe it will lend itself to people raging more than people saying "hey this is a cool and fun item to play against."
: Actually, I like the way they changed the passive. However, maybe the increased lifetime of spheres shoud rather be the ult bonus so the Q can keep its dmg amplifyer. The spheres could have a 5 sec duration increased by one second for each rank of her ult thus granting 8 secs in total again. The lifetime could also be increased for each ability maxed out which would be a fifth aspect added to transendence. What do you think? ;D
> [{quoted}](name=MiIf Fortune,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=yyUbr9Op,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-04-20T12:09:52.631+0000) > > Actually, I like the way they changed the passive. > However, maybe the increased lifetime of spheres shoud rather be the ult bonus so the Q can keep its dmg amplifyer. > The spheres could have a 5 sec duration increased by one second for each rank of her ult thus granting 8 secs in total again. > The lifetime could also be increased for each ability maxed out which would be a fifth aspect added to transendence. > > What do you think? ;D I think adding the sphere lifetime duration as a fifth aspect would be much better. The 15% bonus damage to champions is way to important to be getting rid of. I believe most syndra players would agree. As far as the sphere lifetime duration replacing the ult 75 range increase aspect I wouldn't want that to happen. I believe the extra 75 range can be quite important.
: MYMU Annie, Fiddle, Veigar Discussion
Extremely strong in her current state imply's she fairs very well against many matchups. So why make her better?
: Annie always got armor and mr with E, now changes flat to % damage. Plus, now is 3 seconds instead 5. Is not a decisive change. You will play vs Annie like always if you know how Annie works. About the new Hextech item i can't say nothing yet. But is not the only champ who can buy it.
> [{quoted}](name=ricardo21,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=4grOkEhn,comment-id=001c0000,timestamp=2016-04-20T06:08:29.408+0000) > > Annie always got armor and mr with E, now changes flat to % damage. Plus, now is 3 seconds instead 5. > Is not a decisive change. You will play vs Annie like always if you know how Annie works. > About the new Hextech item i can't say nothing yet. But is not the only champ who can buy it. Being forced to buy an item because another champion bought that item isn't fun at all.
: MYMU - Cassiopeia Discussion
Hey Riot Repertoir, Why is it that Cassiopeia's W has a fixed cast distance. It feels really frustrating not to be able to decide where you would like to put it (closer or farther from you). Thanks for your time.
: MYMU Annie, Fiddle, Veigar Discussion
Am I the only one that thinks annie will be too strong? I'm not for these changes at all. Not to mention the hextech protobelt has a 40 second cd on its dash. This will be a nightmare.Annie bot the guy that plays annie non stop believes annie is extremely strong in her current state.
: As a long-time Syndra main and a former chart-topping Syn player, I have to agree. Effective Syndra playstyle revolves around poking and landing excellent stuns, not saving up for a max-sphere ult. A consistent Q poke with the 15% damage bonus will yield much more damage than even her new ult maxed out. I have yet to see the W in action, but thus far, I am unhappy with the changes.
: I agree, i view her change as a nerf. What i would do to remedy it is to either give back the 15% damage boost or up the base damage of the Q to reflect that at rank 5. the W changes are great i like them, it does make it easy to stun the team when you grab 3 balls and place them in a line for the E. Overall i feel the syndra changes are lacking. {{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}}
They are certainly lacking. This is most disappointing.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: [Planned - 6.9] Mana x MP/5 x AP x MR Item Pass [Updated - 4/11/2016]
Hey Xypherous, I wanted to bring up the protobelt with annie discussion again. I understand that the protobelt has been updated but I still don't see how it would be a healthy item with where it is now. From what I understand the belt's dash forward takes about .25 seconds to reach its end and then there is a spell lockout of about .25 seconds. So for example if I am playing an immobile mage against annie assuming I have her on the edge of my own range all she has to do is use the active to get within range to use her spell rotation. Now I understand that she will have a spell lockout but is .2 seconds really enough time for the immobile range to try to escape her burst? I really doubt it. You can say it is enough time for you to flash and escape which it is. But in that scenario all annie did was trade a 40 second cooldown dash for your 4 1/2 to 5 minute flash timer. I'm not really sure how this item allows for counter play in this scenario at all. It seems very one sided. Now all she has to do is either wait out the 40 seconds to dash forward again or wait for her ult to be back up. In either case annie sets herself up to win. There is also the possibility that when annie dashes forward you flash but she can simply follow up flash causing you to be within her range once again. This is an issue because now your escape is gone and again annie can simply wait for the 40 second cd on the dash + ult and repeat the process. Though this time neither of you has flash. To me this item creates a simple way to get flashes out of your opponent. Myself playing many immobile mages this seems a bit unfair as once my flash is gone I don't have any escape left if I were to make a mistep. Whereas in this case annie would have a 275 unit dash that is up every 40 seconds that can be used as an escape or an engage. Before if annie wanted to make quick play she would have to give up her own flash (assuming you were out of range) for a kill or her opponents flash. Now she doesn't need to give that up, she doesn't lose out on anything. This creates a scenario where I feel obligated to buy hextech protobelt if my opponent has it. Pretty lame if you ask me. I believe the spell lockout should be longer and the cooldown to dash even longer. I do agree this item can add some cool play for the player using it however I don't see how it would be fun for the person that is against it. Similar to what you were saying with poke mages being able to sit back and fire spells constantly with the old mana items. I'm not sure what your thoughts on all this is but I would love to hear them.
: [Planned - 6.9] Mana x MP/5 x AP x MR Item Pass [Updated - 4/11/2016]
Hey Xypherous, I've read almost every comment you have made but not every post so forgive me if this has been asked already. I'd like to bring three things up and see hear what your thoughts are. 1. I think the items are pretty unique which is awesome but what I find concerning is that ap is being taken away from some core items that many mages use. The new items are geared towards mid range mages which I believe you stated. So as far as long range mages go they may opt not to buy these items and continue to go their normal item path. But with ap being taken away from zhonyas and abyssal their overall ap would be lower. Yes cdr is added to these items which is nice but frankly for many mages such as brand, syndra, xerath they are already getting 35-40% cdr without these changes put in place. So I don't see how adding cdr to these items really benefits them. To be up front I play most mages and have no problem getting 30-40% cdr with what items are already in place. So I feel like the 10% cdr on zhonyas and abyssal are a bit of a wasted stat. 2. Mages are already having a tough time dealing with tanks which in some sense they should because tanks build hp and that is troubling for a mage. However with ap being taken off these items they will likely struggle even more. Tanks already have very gold efficient items and are able to get tanky quicker in comparison to damage dealers being able to amass damage items. Why this is the case I'm not sure if you can shed some light i'd appreciate it. It just doesn't make sense to me to have one class able to buy more gold efficient items in comparison to another. Wouldn't you want tanks to get tanky at the same rate that damage dealers gain damage assuming everything is constant. Obviously in game it's different as there are many variables at play. So basically by lowering the overall ap certain mid laners can get it likely will hurt them when dealing with tanks. 3. It seems odd to me that there will be a mage update during the mid year but then this item focus is towards mid range mages and not mages as a whole. Aren't you basically going in knowing that long range mages will be weaker. Would it not make more sense to have something for long range mages that will ship the same time the mage update goes out so that all the mages can be equally as powerful. This would avoid a month or two of mid range mages being very dominant in the mid lane while long range mages sit in the shadows.
: Concerned for AP based champs.
Thanks for posting! If you would be able to add any specifics that would be great.
: The only potion that gives mana is flask I believe (could be wrong about this, I'm really tired and don't feel like looking it up right now) and Doran's Ring already had mana regen on it.
> [{quoted}](name=Roryrai,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=FRNZt6Mv,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2015-10-31T05:16:05.236+0000) > > The only potion that gives mana is flask I believe (could be wrong about this, I'm really tired and don't feel like looking it up right now) and Doran's Ring already had mana regen on it. you are likely thinking about the corrupting potion. Their is no longer a flask. As far as that potion goes it is 150hp and 50 mana over 12 seconds (LOL). So not very useful to buy in mid for 500gold. Their is the hunters potion which is 400g but only jungler will buy it as it requires killing large monsters to gain charges.
: Concerned for AP based champs.
Correct but again the issues that I mentioned are going to contribute a large deal to why AP champs will fall behind. The current patch on live servers don't have these changes so having mana regeneration masteries that aren't very cost efficient is fine. With these changes having crap mana regeneration masteries isn't exactly going to do it.
: Which is why I reported it - no one else seemed to be commenting on it (I think people are a little too obsessed with the ADC changes and not focusing on how everyone else is impacted by the mastery changes), so I reported it here and on a separate thread.
> [{quoted}](name=Telosa,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=FRNZt6Mv,comment-id=001000000000,timestamp=2015-10-31T13:03:27.464+0000) > > Which is why I reported it - no one else seemed to be commenting on it (I think people are a little too obsessed with the ADC changes and not focusing on how everyone else is impacted by the mastery changes), so I reported it here and on a separate thread. Also thanks for mentioning that bug!
: Honestly, the mastery trees are fine. My only real complain is that hybrid champions like Kayle can't get both the CDR they need and hybrid penetration mastery at the same time, because they occupy the same rung of the Cunning tree. They might need to fine tune them a bit, but the trees seem fine. I'm also kind of glad they made people pick between Meditation (the mana regen mastery) and Merciless - you can hit them harder when you hit a spell or you can spam spells more often with the extra mana, but you can't do both. The only real mastery you lose out on by not going deeper into the Resolve tree is the %Magic penetration mastery. so it seems totally fine that mages are encouraged to use Storm Raider's Surge or Thunderlord's Decree in the Cunning Tree over Deathfire Touch in the Resolve Tree.
> [{quoted}](name=Telosa,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=FRNZt6Mv,comment-id=00070002,timestamp=2015-10-31T12:53:16.994+0000) > > Honestly, the mastery trees are fine. My only real complain is that hybrid champions like Kayle can't get both the CDR they need and hybrid penetration mastery at the same time, because they occupy the same rung of the Cunning tree. They might need to fine tune them a bit, but the trees seem fine. I'm also kind of glad they made people pick between Meditation (the mana regen mastery) and Merciless - you can hit them harder when you hit a spell or you can spam spells more often with the extra mana, but you can't do both. The only real mastery you lose out on by not going deeper into the Resolve tree is the %Magic penetration mastery. so it seems totally fine that mages are encouraged to use Storm Raider's Surge or Thunderlord's Decree in the Cunning Tree over Deathfire Touch in the Resolve Tree. You realize though that putting max points in meditation only leads to 1.5% regeneration on missing mana. So say the ap for some reason is missing 1000 mana, you would only regen 15 mana every 5 seconds. Which imo is pretty poor. Now lets say you are missing 300 mana in the early game, you would regen 4.5 mana every 5 seconds. That is terrible lol.
: I usually don't buy mana pots at all so I don't think myself this is an issue, but I totally agree with what you said concerning RIOT that is "uping" AD champion to the sky, and bringing down AP to the ground and even below than that. This is just insane, AD have now ways to counter CC and Burst, which is easily 90% of what make the power of an AP, quite easily and early in the game without losing too much of the rest of what they need to be efficient. And like if it was not enough, they nerfed AP items and made Masteries build totally out of the mark concerning the AP players. This is not even unbalanced, this is pur madness.
> [{quoted}](name=Sleyis,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=FRNZt6Mv,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2015-10-31T11:24:54.254+0000) > > I usually don't buy mana pots at all so I don't think myself this is an issue, but I totally agree with what you said concerning RIOT that is "uping" AD champion to the sky, and bringing down AP to the ground and even below than that. This is just insane, AD have now ways to counter CC and Burst, which is easily 90% of what make the power of an AP, quite easily and early in the game without losing too much of the rest of what they need to be efficient. And like if it was not enough, they nerfed AP items and made Masteries build totally out of the mark concerning the AP players. This is not even unbalanced, this is pur madness. It depends on what ap you are playing obviously. Some ap champs may not require pots however I am mostly looking at it from an ap vs ad perspective. It is very important for the ap champ to try to trade a bit and damage the ad else the ad will shove faster then the ap can handle. At that point you will be under tower having to use mana to last hit.
: well In know they did buff base mana for quite a few champions in the last update. Unsure if it will do anything in the means of helping ease the issue but Ive never really had to run mana pots on most mids. MAYBE some on brand but he is SUPER mana hungry unlike most.
> [{quoted}](name=Valenten,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=FRNZt6Mv,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2015-10-31T06:42:02.372+0000) > > well In know they did buff base mana for quite a few champions in the last update. Unsure if it will do anything in the means of helping ease the issue but Ive never really had to run mana pots on most mids. MAYBE some on brand but he is SUPER mana hungry unlike most. It was only 50 mana. Honestly not that much of a difference. Could it make a difference in getting one spell off and killing someone sure but again that likely wont be the case the majority of the time.
: It's not wasted gold if that extra health allows them more pressure in the lane. If that health allows them to shove into your tower and/or start to out trade you because you run out of mana, it starts to favor them more than you. When out of mana and under tower it can be difficult to manage the wave for a good recall, and you lose out on minions and therefore more gold and XP than the health pot that you forced them to use. Overall, running out of mana without gaining a lasting health advantage over your lane opponent is a net win for them since they get to stay in lane longer, and they get to leave it on their terms instead of yours.
> [{quoted}](name=Roryrai,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=FRNZt6Mv,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2015-10-31T05:11:16.413+0000) > > It's not wasted gold if that extra health allows them more pressure in the lane. If that health allows them to shove into your tower and/or start to out trade you because you run out of mana, it starts to favor them more than you. When out of mana and under tower it can be difficult to manage the wave for a good recall, and you lose out on minions and therefore more gold and XP than the health pot that you forced them to use. Overall, running out of mana without gaining a lasting health advantage over your lane opponent is a net win for them since they get to stay in lane longer, and they get to leave it on their terms instead of yours. very ture
: Okay so first I'm gonna address the one part I disagree with, Riven is all about AD ratios, she is entirely physical damage and her base damages are garbage, she actually doesn't benefit as much from the new items as she does from the reworked items and isn't anything to special compared to most AD champs. I think the offensive Mastery tree being weaker early game is gonna be huge for this next patch regarding Riven, it means unless she has high stacks in Fervor of Battle she probably won't be able to 1v1 most other Fighters early due to poor base damage and will play to scale. As for the rest I agree on the mages being weak part Sorcery is a really weak mastery and the Tier 6 offensive masteries only have 1 that benefits mages. I would like to see the crit one be reworked into something different that benefits both types of champions, I really think something based off of Lux passive would be the best way to go about it, mark champions with spells and then detonate with autos for extra damage, usable by most champions and fun with counter play. I disagree with Riot nerfing the AP items and increasing the overall cost of builds in general, there are now a lot of items 3500+ gold and that just simply feels too expensive with how hard it is to get to the late game as it is. I also dislike how most mages don't have enough mana to kill another champion at level 1 simply by landing their best ability 100% of the time. You would oom before the enemy runs out of hp, that's not even taking into consideration the difficulty of CSing as AP vs AD. Mana is this game is too harsh. I think Riot needs to go through and lower a lot of mage Mana costs, Lux E, Lissanra spells, Morgana W, Syndra Q, Ahri Q, Galio abilities, Nami and Sona heals, TF W, and Ziggs Q to name a few.
> [{quoted}](name=ThePurpleKnight,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=FRNZt6Mv,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-10-31T03:17:28.948+0000) > > Okay so first I'm gonna address the one part I disagree with, Riven is all about AD ratios, she is entirely physical damage and her base damages are garbage, she actually doesn't benefit as much from the new items as she does from the reworked items and isn't anything to special compared to most AD champs. I think the offensive Mastery tree being weaker early game is gonna be huge for this next patch regarding Riven, it means unless she has high stacks in Fervor of Battle she probably won't be able to 1v1 most other Fighters early due to poor base damage and will play to scale. > > As for the rest I agree on the mages being weak part Sorcery is a really weak mastery and the Tier 6 offensive masteries only have 1 that benefits mages. I would like to see the crit one be reworked into something different that benefits both types of champions, I really think something based off of Lux passive would be the best way to go about it, mark champions with spells and then detonate with autos for extra damage, usable by most champions and fun with counter play. > > I disagree with Riot nerfing the AP items and increasing the overall cost of builds in general, there are now a lot of items 3500+ gold and that just simply feels too expensive with how hard it is to get to the late game as it is. > > I also dislike how most mages don't have enough mana to kill another champion at level 1 simply by landing their best ability 100% of the time. You would oom before the enemy runs out of hp, that's not even taking into consideration the difficulty of CSing as AP vs AD. Mana is this game is too harsh. I think Riot needs to go through and lower a lot of mage Mana costs, Lux E, Lissanra spells, Morgana W, Syndra Q, Ahri Q, Galio abilities, Nami and Sona heals, TF W, and Ziggs Q to name a few. Thank you for posting. I still disagree with you on the Riven stance however. Having 100% as a ratio on w and e still just too much imo. While she may not have the highest base values on them, her passive certainly makes up for that.
: The other concerning thing to me for AP champions, in addition to the mana region issues, is the fact that the mastery tree for AP is extremely awkward. There are only a couple of the masteries in the bottom row that are actually viable at all on AP champions, and all of these are either equal or strictly better on AD champions. The ones that are viable are Stormraider's Surge (movespeed on dealing high enough burst, viable on burst mages), Thunderlord's Decree (AoE damage on the third spell or attack hit, scaling with AD and AP), and Deathfire Touch (burn on dealing spell or attack damage, scaling with both AD and AP). Assuming that, on average, a mage will have approximately twice as much AP after building hat as a carry has AD, the scaling on Thunderlord's decree gives equal damage to both AP and AD. The movespeed from Stormraider's Surge is also equal on both AP and AD champions. But, assuming, again, that most mages have about twice as much AP as a carry's AD, a mage with Deathfire Touch will deal less burn damage than an AD champion with it. After that, consider than the burn damage is halved for AoE damage (which is a good chunk of what mages do) and they get outclassed even harder. Given that 7% magic penetration from Piercing Thoughts (the 5-point tier 3 Ferocity mastery) is probably going to prove necessary, Deathfire touch is the only mastery that it's actually reasonably possible to reach. Compared to all 3 of the bottom row of Ferocity masteries being not only viable but really, really good on AD champions and mages seem a bit underwhelming. This is all just interpretation based on the numbers on paper, since the custom game minimum player gate is making it hard to get into games to actually try things. But the awkward mastery paths combined with mana region nerfs (oh, did I mention that the Meditation mastery, with its 1.5% missing mana restore, seems like it would be almost required on every mage?) and the almost across the board cost increases and/or stat nerfs on AP items makes it seem like Riot is very heavily favoring AD champions with this update, if it keeps going the direction it's going.
> [{quoted}](name=Roryrai,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=FRNZt6Mv,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-10-30T23:34:59.130+0000) > > The other concerning thing to me for AP champions, in addition to the mana region issues, is the fact that the mastery tree for AP is extremely awkward. There are only a couple of the masteries in the bottom row that are actually viable at all on AP champions, and all of these are either equal or strictly better on AD champions. The ones that are viable are Stormraider's Surge (movespeed on dealing high enough burst, viable on burst mages), Thunderlord's Decree (AoE damage on the third spell or attack hit, scaling with AD and AP), and Deathfire Touch (burn on dealing spell or attack damage, scaling with both AD and AP). Assuming that, on average, a mage will have approximately twice as much AP after building hat as a carry has AD, the scaling on Thunderlord's decree gives equal damage to both AP and AD. The movespeed from Stormraider's Surge is also equal on both AP and AD champions. But, assuming, again, that most mages have about twice as much AP as a carry's AD, a mage with Deathfire Touch will deal less burn damage than an AD champion with it. After that, consider than the burn damage is halved for AoE damage (which is a good chunk of what mages do) and they get outclassed even harder. Given that 7% magic penetration from Piercing Thoughts (the 5-point tier 3 Ferocity mastery) is probably going to prove necessary, Deathfire touch is the only mastery that it's actually reasonably possible to reach. Compared to all 3 of the bottom row of Ferocity masteries being not only viable but really, really good on AD champions and mages seem a bit underwhelming. > > This is all just interpretation based on the numbers on paper, since the custom game minimum player gate is making it hard to get into games to actually try things. But the awkward mastery paths combined with mana region nerfs (oh, did I mention that the Meditation mastery, with its 1.5% missing mana restore, seems like it would be almost required on every mage?) and the almost across the board cost increases and/or stat nerfs on AP items makes it seem like Riot is very heavily favoring AD champions with this update, if it keeps going the direction it's going. good points.
: I mean I know that not having mana pots is kind of a big thing but they did put in some potions to help with that PLUS dorans ring has mana regen on it now I believe? unsure of the other one currently tho as i am waiting forever and a day in queue
> [{quoted}](name=Valenten,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=FRNZt6Mv,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-10-30T22:45:21.020+0000) > > I mean I know that not having mana pots is kind of a big thing but they did put in some potions to help with that PLUS dorans ring has mana regen on it now I believe? unsure of the other one currently tho as i am waiting forever and a day in queue The mana pot thing is just something I bring up as an issue when dealing with an ad champion as an opponent in the laning phase. Without them things become a good bit more difficult. As an AP you would want to try and get some decent dmg done before the level 6 spike on particular assassins. Especially in the instance where seekers is a first bought item rather than building into morellos. The potions they put in are shit for APs. 500g for corrupting potion that restores 50 mana or 12 seconds is hardly respectable. Dorans ring is the same still.
: An important thing to note is that LW and the things it builds into now only pierce _bonus_ armor and I believe the only item that still gives flat armor pen now at end game is Maw with 10 armorpen. If you were only looking at the new items and buffs you would be right, but you're missing all the nerfs and changes.
> [{quoted}](name=zanotam,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=FRNZt6Mv,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-10-30T17:05:04.949+0000) > > An important thing to note is that LW and the things it builds into now only pierce _bonus_ armor and I believe the only item that still gives flat armor pen now at end game is Maw with 10 armorpen. If you were only looking at the new items and buffs you would be right, but you're missing all the nerfs and changes. youmuu's has flat armor pen, was buffed ad wise. It lost its crit chance but that isnt bad when crit chance was redistributed to other items. There were barely any real nerfs to ad items when you look at everything as a whole. Also don't forget about the giant slayer passive.
: this means you need to land you skill shots now instead of wasting 80 mana on nothing
> [{quoted}](name=The Clap,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=FRNZt6Mv,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-30T15:45:54.047+0000) > > this means you need to land you skill shots now instead of wasting 80 mana on nothing You really haven't thought much of this through. I didn't go into much detail so I may be partially at fault here. However landing skill shots isn't the point. The point being that champions with high mana costs will run out of mana or not have enough mana when the enemy champ is within lethal. While an ad assassin doesn't have to worry about such things. You basically will need a jungler to help out which i find a bit unfortunate.
Rioter Comments
: Skarner PBE Changelist and Feedback Thread
I just don't see how playing king of the hill within the rift is fun at all?
: Skarner PBE Changelist and Feedback Thread
Just my opinion but how is the new passive Crystal spire even fun. You have to play a 'mini game' inside of another. The idea just seems to be a bit of an annoyance to me.
: Thanks for the feedback. I'll try to address the 'The Bad' stuff: > Unless you intend to spend a lot of time in the enemy teams jungle, that's just free 30g and vision they get at the beginning at the game. Say goodbye to invades, and now the enemy teams jungler will have a 30g lead on Skarner, which though it may not be much, is basically a free potion when paired with Scuttle Crab. The vision on these things only lasts 10 seconds at the time they are captured, so they don't really give much vision outside of the initial cap. And the gold they give out is basically symmetrical. In order for the enemy team to capture it and gain 15g, Skarner's team has to own it (and they will hold it until the enemy team turns it over). Likewise, Skarner and his teammates will get 15g for recapturing it later. I do need to put in a better solution for level 1 gold provided by them right now, though. > -His Q is now garbage. This change was fairly major, so it will take a bit of explaining. His Q definitely still grants him bonus damage. Sorry if that wasn't clear. The damage it deals is (TotalAD ratio) and an _additional _(TotalAD ratio + AP ratio) when charged. His clear speed is actually faster now. You are right about him doing less dps in ganks now, but the ease at which he stuns enemies via E is increased pretty substantially, and the duration of the stun early game is a bit longer. Feedback from playtesters has been that his E offers a higher total utility package than before, but I'll keep an eye out for it.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=d2bmpMif,comment-id=000f0001,timestamp=2015-08-04T21:59:08.363+0000) > > Thanks for the feedback. I'll try to address the 'The Bad' stuff: > > The vision on these things only lasts 10 seconds at the time they are captured, so they don't really give much vision outside of the initial cap. And the gold they give out is basically symmetrical. In order for the enemy team to capture it and gain 15g, Skarner's team has to own it (and they will hold it until the enemy team turns it over). Likewise, Skarner and his teammates will get 15g for recapturing it later. I do need to put in a better solution for level 1 gold provided by them right now, though. > > His Q definitely still grants him bonus damage. Sorry if that wasn't clear. The damage it deals is (TotalAD ratio) and an _additional _(TotalAD ratio + AP ratio) when charged. His clear speed is actually faster now. > > You are right about him doing less dps in ganks now, but the ease at which he stuns enemies via E is increased pretty substantially, and the duration of the stun early game is a bit longer. > > Feedback from playtesters has been that his E offers a higher total utility package than before, but I'll keep an eye out for it. I'm having a hard time with this statement from the playtesters, "Feedback from playtesters has been that his E offers a higher total utility package than before". How could his new E offer more utility overall than before? If the updated Skarner is ganking a lane and he lands his E on a single target that target will be slowed for 2 seconds giving enough time for skarner to move up hopefully (reduced ms) and auto attack for the stun proc. So in total it would be 3 seconds of some form of movement impairment. The old skarner had a 2.5 second slow followed by a 1 second stun, the total their is 3.5 seconds of overall movement impairment. Personally I would rather have the latter, it also just seems more fun to me. The real point I wanted to address within the statement are teamfights. I find that having the ability to stack crystalizing sting on multiple targets more useful for applying stuns than an E that I may be able to get out twice during a fight and possibly missing.
: Garen PBE Changelist and Feedback thread
Can I get a little context on why Garen has a silence to begin with (I don't see why he would need it in the majority of lane matchups). From what I see in games, Garen will just run towards a carry silence the individual then wreak havoc on that player. Also I'm curious about the whole "villian" passive. Assuming an optimal game, the person with the last kill will likely be the ADC or APC. So is the objective here to have Garen a massive tank be able to get on one of the squishys silence them, then do true damage to the small amount of hp that player has followed by an execute? Also yes the carrys should be peeled for however with Garens speed boost and ability to survive I see him make it to the target most of the time. Another thing I am curious about is why he would ever get an attack range increase. Seems very odd to me.
: Riot. You guys. Just killed. My favorite. Jungler. Let me start with the Good: -The crystals do offer a counter to notorious counterjunglers and a way to quickly cross the map. -The shield on his W will be a lot more useful and will scale a lot better in accordance with something that he will be building more of. The Bad: -Unless you intend to spend a lot of time in the enemy teams jungle, that's just free 30g and vision they get at the beginning at the game. Say goodbye to invades, and now the enemy teams jungler will have a 30g lead on Skarner, which though it may not be much, is basically a free potion when paired with Scuttle Crab. -His Q is now garbage. This change was fairly major, so it will take a bit of explaining. The Q no longer grants him bonus: damage, attack speed, movement speed, or stacks of his passive. This is VERY significant, as it will excruciatingly cut down on his clear time. I realize he will have the crystals, but his ganking potential pre six with these changes in effect is pretty much halved. In addition to this, when multiple enemies are around him, he will only have the potential to stun those in a small line. This means during teamfights, botlane skirmishes, contesting dragon/baron, he now lacks a LOT of utility in fights and will become more oriented on focusing down one to two targets, as opposed to being able to change targets almost simultaneously if the need arises. Old Skarner had brawling potential. He could not only hold his own in a fight, but also had a lot of utility and cc that he could bring to a team. New Skarner replaces this with a mediocre system that grants him slight control over the jungle, IF his team is good about keeping the crystals, which is just another thing him and his team have to worry about if they lose control of their side of the jungle. He lost a lot of cc, a lot of utility, and most importantly, a lot of ganking potential with these changes. Please, Riot... at least let him keep his old Q, and simply move his old passive to the E and leave it at that. Keep the crystals to give him a hint of uniqueness and some cool bonuses that he can bring to his team, but don't let these other changes ruin an otherwise fairly balanced champion.
> [{quoted}](name=Legacian,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=d2bmpMif,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2015-08-04T21:27:17.819+0000) > > Riot. You guys. Just killed. My favorite. Jungler. > Let me start with the Good: > -The crystals do offer a counter to notorious counterjunglers and a way to quickly cross the map. > -The shield on his W will be a lot more useful and will scale a lot better in accordance with something that he will be building more of. > The Bad: > -Unless you intend to spend a lot of time in the enemy teams jungle, that's just free 30g and vision they get at the beginning at the game. Say goodbye to invades, and now the enemy teams jungler will have a 30g lead on Skarner, which though it may not be much, is basically a free potion when paired with Scuttle Crab. > -His Q is now garbage. This change was fairly major, so it will take a bit of explaining. > The Q no longer grants him bonus: damage, attack speed, movement speed, or stacks of his passive. This is VERY significant, as it will excruciatingly cut down on his clear time. I realize he will have the crystals, but his ganking potential pre six with these changes in effect is pretty much halved. In addition to this, when multiple enemies are around him, he will only have the potential to stun those in a small line. This means during teamfights, botlane skirmishes, contesting dragon/baron, he now lacks a LOT of utility in fights and will become more oriented on focusing down one to two targets, as opposed to being able to change targets almost simultaneously if the need arises. > Old Skarner had brawling potential. He could not only hold his own in a fight, but also had a lot of utility and cc that he could bring to a team. > New Skarner replaces this with a mediocre system that grants him slight control over the jungle, IF his team is good about keeping the crystals, which is just another thing him and his team have to worry about if they lose control of their side of the jungle. He lost a lot of cc, a lot of utility, and most importantly, a lot of ganking potential with these changes. > Please, Riot... at least let him keep his old Q, and simply move his old passive to the E and leave it at that. Keep the crystals to give him a hint of uniqueness and some cool bonuses that he can bring to his team, but don't let these other changes ruin an otherwise fairly balanced champion. I totally agree with all of your points. I was going to make a post of my own but yours pretty much sums everything up. I think we should all emphasize how horrible of an idea the new passive "crystal spires" is as well. I'm just shaking my head and praying this change doesn't go through. I will never play Skarner again.
: To mean the only broken things are his numbers on his kit. His kit is really fun to play but the fact that u cant do anything to him if ur fighting him head to head is stupid imo. I feel they need to tone down either the shield amount or they need to nurf how long he can stun u for. At lvl 1 with about 30 ap his shield gives him about a 2 second stun and a 100 damage shield now i get it doesnt rank up that much and thats y it is hard fighting him. I also feel that his ults damage is a wee bit to high either its the base damage is to high or the ap ratio is to high i get its hard to land but its not as hard as it seems and its radius doesnt match its animation and should be fixed.
> [{quoted}](name=Corkitheking58,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=IwzIqm00,comment-id=00ff,timestamp=2015-05-18T20:10:32.169+0000) > > To mean the only broken things are his numbers on his kit. His kit is really fun to play but the fact that u cant do anything to him if ur fighting him head to head is stupid imo. I feel they need to tone down either the shield amount or they need to nurf how long he can stun u for. At lvl 1 with about 30 ap his shield gives him about a 2 second stun and a 100 damage shield now i get it doesnt rank up that much and thats y it is hard fighting him. I also feel that his ults damage is a wee bit to high either its the base damage is to high or the ap ratio is to high i get its hard to land but its not as hard as it seems and its radius doesnt match its animation and should be fixed. I would not say at all that "u cant do anything to him if ur fighting him head to head". Their are many champions that can fight head to head and come out on top.
: Ekko in general is an amazing champ,his kit is maybe one of if not the most fun kits ive used but his ult is a little OP and it costs nothing to use I mean thats awesome but it does seem like it should cost some mana to even it out a little lol
> [{quoted}](name=theflashlight,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=IwzIqm00,comment-id=00f9,timestamp=2015-05-17T22:40:46.719+0000) > > Ekko in general is an amazing champ,his kit is maybe one of if not the most fun kits ive used but his ult is a little OP and it costs nothing to use I mean thats awesome but it does seem like it should cost some mana to even it out a little lol While I agree the ult is strong I don't agree that it is overpowered. Four seconds is quite some time in a teamfight. To have that ultimate line up perfectly so you can get the damage on one or more players takes some good planning. You should be rewarded in a sense for being able to plan out four seconds ahead and nail that ult. You will likely notice in some of your games that some players try so hard to get it to line up they either go in to early and get nuked or don't go in which results in a loss of dps resulting in that teams loss of the fight.
: First I need you to explain to me why you call him an assassin outside of any numbers, because numbers change often. Secondly I believe you are mistaken in thinking his Q is difficult to land in full. Yes it takes a while to return, however when timed correctly you can catch them on the max range and hit them with both very quickly with no time for them to react. If you use your E to re-position to force them to get hit a second time by the Q and trigger his passive with the third hit from E. So before you think, "Oh Ekko is squishy, he shouldn't go in for poke," Kassadin did the same thing before his changes. Kass would ult on top of them press Q, E, and W, then walk back to safety. Ekko only needs to throw his Q, then E to the other side of them, and run back to safety with a bonus 40 or so % of their movement speed. As for his W, you are completely correct. This ability isn't very useful for an assassin. The point of this ability is to create zones. Wherever you use Ekko's W the enemy can't stand. Best used in **skirmises**, small fights between two or three champs. When placed directly on yourself in a fight you present the enemy with the hard choice of, staying in the bubble and try to kill you in under 3 seconds or run. If they run you still get the shield, if not you possibly get the kill, if you're good. Plus, it grants vision. Ekko's E is more of a synergistic ability. It should be used to proc passive, help land Q, and trigger W's more effectively. It's also pretty good for jumping walls. Ekko's R is a lot more reliable than everyone I've seen so far give credit for. Caught out? Press R! Getting chased? Press R! Didn't build as an assassin, and survived a fight for more than 4 seconds? Be the hero and press R! Look, I know getting to Diamond is a feat not many of us can say they've achieved, and I'm still in bronze. However people in higher ELO tend to be shortsighted due to their experience, lacking the drive to get better than those of us in lower ELO still have. Its easy to compare Ekko to something that already exists like Ahri but unfair to that champion's identity.
> [{quoted}](name=Keon Kamori,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=IwzIqm00,comment-id=00b80002,timestamp=2015-05-17T13:10:06.983+0000) > > First I need you to explain to me why you call him an assassin outside of any numbers, because numbers change often. Secondly I believe you are mistaken in thinking his Q is difficult to land in full. Yes it takes a while to return, however when timed correctly you can catch them on the max range and hit them with both very quickly with no time for them to react. > > If you use your E to re-position to force them to get hit a second time by the Q and trigger his passive with the third hit from E. So before you think, "Oh Ekko is squishy, he shouldn't go in for poke," Kassadin did the same thing before his changes. Kass would ult on top of them press Q, E, and W, then walk back to safety. Ekko only needs to throw his Q, then E to the other side of them, and run back to safety with a bonus 40 or so % of their movement speed. > > As for his W, you are completely correct. This ability isn't very useful for an assassin. The point of this ability is to create zones. Wherever you use Ekko's W the enemy can't stand. Best used in **skirmises**, small fights between two or three champs. When placed directly on yourself in a fight you present the enemy with the hard choice of, staying in the bubble and try to kill you in under 3 seconds or run. If they run you still get the shield, if not you possibly get the kill, if you're good. Plus, it grants vision. > > Ekko's E is more of a synergistic ability. It should be used to proc passive, help land Q, and trigger W's more effectively. It's also pretty good for jumping walls. > > Ekko's R is a lot more reliable than everyone I've seen so far give credit for. Caught out? Press R! Getting chased? Press R! Didn't build as an assassin, and survived a fight for more than 4 seconds? Be the hero and press R! > > Look, I know getting to Diamond is a feat not many of us can say they've achieved, and I'm still in bronze. However people in higher ELO tend to be shortsighted due to their experience, lacking the drive to get better than those of us in lower ELO still have. Its easy to compare Ekko to something that already exists like Ahri but unfair to that champion's identity. I would like to bring attention to your last paragraph regarding Diamond players. The idea that just because someone has reached diamond ranking causes them to become complacent and lack drive is a bit of a generalization. Diamond isn't even the highest rank to begin with. I do however value another diamond players opinion on a champion over a lower ranked player. The reason for this is because their is something to be said about a players ability to climb up the ranks and perform well at those levels. It is likely that individual has a pretty good understanding of the inner workings of the game as well as individual champions. While Bronze players may have the drive to get out of bronze they certainly are very inexperienced or have picked up very bad habits along the way, if they are having difficulty getting into silver (or silver to gold, gold to plat). A good scenario of people saying ekko is too strong would be if I were to go into a bronze ranked game and play ekko. Next thing you know I carry the whole game with a score of 20/1/10. Then everyone will yell, "ekko is op". In those instances, no you can't call him overpowered. I just straight outplayed the other five players. Their understanding of the matchup was limited and I took advantage of that fact, to snowball hard. The same thing can be done with any other champion and you know what happens, the same thing "X champion is op". I find it to be really unfortunate. A lot of players are quick to say a champion is overpowered simply because they have difficulty vsing that particular champion or they lose to them. They immediately take the blame off themselves, instead of learning the matchup or admitting they messed up. Id like to make two other quick points. Think of what it is like when diana gets fed (being she is another ap assassin), she is a complete nightmare. She is tanky and hits like a truck. Though to remind everyone she just as ekko are classified as assassins. If an assassin is ahead of you in lane assuming you are not tanky like sion, you will get blown up if you misstep in 2 seconds as it should be. Levels are the most important stat in this game if you are even one level behind, you better think twice before engaging a fight. Finally I would just have to say that I have versed quite a few ekkos in lane and have yet to lose to the individual playing the champion, needless to say I don't find him overpowered at all. I hope everyone reads this response and really thinks about how their matches went, I would like to hear about them.
: Ekko Feedback Thread
So far I have played ekko quite a bit since he was released onto the pbe. I have to say since the nerf that just recently hit, I really feel like he is in a perfect position. Their is room to trade effectively while playing as him and at the same time against him. Many times though I find people complaining about him stating he is, "op". The thing about it though is that many of these people go into the game die 3 times do to various reasons and then expect to somehow be able to 1v1 him? If you die to any champion in lane 3 times, their is no way you will be able to fight him afterwards. The champion is not overpowered, people just use that as an excuse when they mess up and then can no longer fight that champion off. All in all, I think he is in a great position whether you are playing as him or are against him. I personally don't see any need to nerf him nor buff him as things are currently.
: Azir could use a few tweaks
I enjoy your idea's BATGIRL 5, more so then, "playing with toy soldiers". I think the idea of commanding the soldiers is cool, however as has been already stated many moves are robotic, have to short a range, or feel just out of place. Honestly many mages will have a field day in lane poking him! The idea of going back to a mechanically inclined mage with various AoE spells and diverse play is really the way to go, but that's just my opinion! As for your comment, maybe we will get lucky and actually get a sand mage! Thank you for your post, I thought it was well thought out.
: I don't feel like Azir's [E] Shifting Sands fits (and a replacement suggestion: High Ground)
http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/f85Kb9Ar-azir-could-use-a-few-tweaks?show=flat This post talks a bit about his 'E', you may find it useful
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Chizzyyy

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