: I made a WHOLE post about something and it all got deleted before i pressed post so imma just do a quick TL;DR cuz UGHHH... TL;DR Riot Kayle looks nothing like splash art. Improvement Suggestions - Make her hair more lighter/ashy blonde instead of "pee" yellow hair. (think splash art or janna base hair colour) - Edit her outfit (+ the drone wings) to be dark grey/black like splash art kinda fit the fantasy i got of special ops agent when i saw the new splash art - Make her shoulder pads way smaller as they are HUGE compared to her splash art. - Make her outfit more of a body suit/cat suit - Recolour ult to it flashes red and blue like police sirens (as it doesnt make sense for her auto attacks to be blue and E to be blue but Q W R to be gold) - Recolour her W to maybe redish or maybe even green or something or even blue. - Recolour her Q to match the rest of her abilities. (im talking about recolour like what happened to silverfang akali after people complained/suggested im not talking about totally new VFX/SFX just PURE recolour of abilities so it matches) Here is the splash art next to the ingame model to further show my point of these 2 being nothing alike. https://imgur.com/a/BqUa62q https://imgur.com/a/VBd819R
> [{quoted}](name=CuppyCake,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=n9fVwXH1,comment-id=001d,timestamp=2019-02-21T14:30:25.506+0000) > > I made a WHOLE post about something and it all got deleted before i pressed post so imma just do a quick TL;DR cuz UGHHH... > > TL;DR > > Riot Kayle looks nothing like splash art. > > Improvement Suggestions > > - Make her hair more lighter/ashy blonde instead of "pee" yellow hair. (think splash art or janna base hair colour) > - Edit her outfit (+ the drone wings) to be dark grey/black like splash art kinda fit the fantasy i got of special ops agent when i saw the new splash art > - Make her shoulder pads way smaller as they are HUGE compared to her splash art. > - Make her outfit more of a body suit/cat suit > - Recolour ult to it flashes red and blue like police sirens (as it doesnt make sense for her auto attacks to be blue and E to be blue but Q W R to be gold) > - Recolour her W to maybe redish or maybe even green or something or even blue. > - Recolour her Q to match the rest of her abilities. (im talking about recolour like what happened to silverfang akali after people complained/suggested im not talking about totally new VFX/SFX just PURE recolour of abilities so it matches) > > Here is the splash art next to the ingame model to further show my point of these 2 being nothing alike. > > https://imgur.com/a/BqUa62q > > https://imgur.com/a/VBd819R I agree with this. When I saw the new splash for Riot Kayle, I was convinced it would be my go-to option as someone who's owned Aether wing since its release. Then i loaded up the pbe client and holy crap, it let me down. I was really hoping that the stiff animations kayle used to have would be gone, but it feels as rigid as ever. On top of that, the colors and proportions don't feel anything like the skin, and honestly, the evolving model doesn't really jive with the technological aspects of the skin. why is she getting more drone wings, it doesn't make sense thematically :/
: Kayle Gameplay Feedback + PBE changelogs
Alright, i've spent the past 2 hours playing kayle and looking at her numbers. 1. kayle has the same gameplay pattern she already had, it's just worse. * she is squishy to the point where she cannot trade with melee champs * her abilities have terrible base damage, high mana costs, and high cooldowns. * her ability to farm is even worse, because now she can maybe farm 3 creeps at range reliably early game. * she cannot even walk up to a champion to CS without taking critical damage. * her heal feels even weaker and feels like it has an even higher mana cost. Even if that's not the case, she is now even more reliant on this heal to survive, and it is woefully inadequate to have any utility in the game. 2. Kayle does not have a fun play style. * for an "avenging angel" kayle is extremely frail and has to play extremely scared. * there is nothing she can do to threaten an enemy champion until level 11. * she has no skill expression on any of her basic skills 3. Her fantasy is at odds with her gameplay. * she is supposed to benefit from attack speed, but she has no way to use it early game. * she is supposed to use attack speed, but has horrible base damage and synergy, making her hit like a wet noodle. * the items she is supposed to build are confusing. She has hybrid scaling, but no way to get the gold required to afford multiple items in the mid game. * by the time she has her first item (most likely a gunblade as of right now since Nashor's build path is useless early game compared to the short trades, sustain, and CC of the Gunblade build path.) she is most likely horribly behind in farm, exp, and her tower is probably dead, giving plates to the enemy laner. * so now you have an edgy "angel" who claims to purge people, but can barely kill minion waves alone. * you feel helpless, and totally restrained. There is nothing fun about sitting in lane, leeching exp hoping to survive until you can actually play the game. ------------- Fixes ---------- I recommend the following: 1. If her kit needs to keep this basic form, her mana costs and cooldowns need to start way lower. She needs to be able to CS at range, so take base damage away from Q if you have to in order to give her the tools to last hit minions. 2. If that's not an option, make her able to actually sustain in lane. She will lose every trade pre-11 as she is, so give her a lower heal CD, higher base healing, and a lower mana cost so she can "trade" and then heal up afterwards. 3. If none of those are possible, just make her ranged from the beginning, and balance her numbers around that. it is absurd that a champion could be made so weak and expected to fulfill any role at all on the rift. maybe she can jungle (tho she most likely dies to jungle from lack of armor and lack of skill damage), she'd get invaded if she tried to jungle with no way to defend herself. 4. Every improvement i try to think up as far as alternative skills she could have just become remnants of vayne. mobility, cc, anything at all, vayne does better than this kayle in all stages of the game. TLDR * Kayle feels terrible. She feels unusable in a lane matchup (she can't even support with no damage, no hard cc, low healing values, and high CD + mana costs) * She either needs her range back, or to make her abilities actually useful in lane for the purposes of farming up to use her AAs mid-late. * if there's one part of her kit she doesn't need, you can't narrow it down. it's literally all of her abilities. unless all her abilities are relegated to "spam to farm" status, she gets no mileage out of them, and they don't feel skillful to use.
: Kayle Gameplay Feedback + PBE changelogs
I'm patching right now, but I have to say my first impressions of the artistic direction for kayle's rework are not sitting well with me. I played a lot of kayle throughout the years (since season 2), and I grew very attached to her voice lines. Aether Wing in particular seems to have had the essence of the skin lost in translation. Where we once had "peace through technology" and "transcend imperfection" we now have "curfew will be enforced, beep boop". The cool thing about Aether wing was that it was a hex tech type of skin with beautiful blue particle effects when your movespeed was high enough and a confident, almost lazy glide through the air. This new skin? Project Kayle? It feels nothing like Aether wing. Even in her Level 16 form, she has a messy, weird cloud of metal following her. Honestly, I'd prefer it if the 3rd pair of "wings" floated higher up, clustered with the other ones, and glowed blue a little. It looks too busy at the moment to my eyes and trust me, there's plenty going on in the skin already.
: Kayle’s face is so freaking ugly compared to Morgana
: Aether Kayle...
Agree, it's not what I paid for years ago, and now it's just an annoying project skin
: Hello again everyone! After considering your feedback and talking together as a team, we have decided to make a price adjustment to the Variants. PBE is always a forum for us to respond to your feedback. This is especially important when we’re trying out new products. We put a lot of thought into the 30% discount: including running player labs, number-crunching, and looking at the effort our artists put into the skins. We still believe in the value of these skins. That said, we hear you: 30% feels bad. So we’re changing it. Both Eclipse Leonas and Pajama Guardian Variants will be discounted now at 45% if you own the other one. So, if you own one Eclipse Leona, the other will cost 1001 RP (2821 RP for both). If you own one Star/Pajama Guardian, you’ll get its counterpart for 742 RP (2092 RP for both) Again, thanks for your feedback on this one. It matters, and we appreciate it.
> [{quoted}](name=I am Carlos,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=h1vNRmxw,comment-id=0054,timestamp=2018-11-06T22:05:49.907+0000) > > Hello again everyone! > After considering your feedback and talking together as a team, we have decided to make a price adjustment to the Variants. > > PBE is always a forum for us to respond to your feedback. This is especially important when we’re trying out new products. > > We put a lot of thought into the 30% discount: including running player labs, number-crunching, and looking at the effort our artists put into the skins. We still believe in the value of these skins. That said, we hear you: 30% feels bad. So we’re changing it. > > Both Eclipse Leonas and Pajama Guardian Variants will be discounted now at 45% if you own the other one. > So, if you own one Eclipse Leona, the other will cost 1001 RP (2821 RP for both). > If you own one Star/Pajama Guardian, you’ll get its counterpart for 742 RP (2092 RP for both) > > Again, thanks for your feedback on this one. It matters, and we appreciate it. This is a great change, and will be the reason I buy both leona skins.
: Well it changes from game to game, but I always start Long sword three pots. Then always Hydra first. After Hydra it depends on how its been going if im against a tank like Nasus or Maokai get Black Cleaver, (if you are super far behind against said tank, get the tank item that counters them; Randuins or Banshees) If im not against a tank but im against an AD caster like Yasou, Talon, Jayce, I get Randuins If im against an Attack speed champ like Trydnamere I get Frozen Heart If im againt an AP champ that relies on Burst I get Banshees' If im against an AP champ that does sustained damage like Rumble I get Spirit Visage After that I look at who is the most fed on the enemy team, and I get whatever item from above that counters them however only ever get one MR item, unless they have a ton of CC, then get QSS as well. Always try to get a Frozen Heart and a Black Cleaver because 40% CDR means her Q is only a 2 second CD when you hit a unit with it. If you are playing ranked or draft mode, where you can see what the enemy is picking, and you know you are going to be going against a sustained AP damage top laner, and you know you are going to be building a spirit visage, since SV gives 10% CDR, have a rune page set up that has 5% CDR in your Glyphs, and take the 5% CDR in the masteries instead of the attack speed, that way with just black cleaver and spirit visage you have 40% CDR and you wont build frozen heart that game. And remember your Q and E and Hydra are all AA resets, so your ideal combo is Q > AA > E for the slow > Hydra active > AA with the Auto Crit, with all the AA resets you can get all 5 of these hits off in about 1-2 seconds even with less than a 1 attack speed EDIT: If laning phase ends before you can fully finish your first tank item, and you arent quite close to finishing it, such as if you have the specters cowl and not the health crystal for a banshees, then stop at the specters cowl and build the tank item that counters their fed player, then finish your first tank item. If their fed player is an AP champ, but you are also against a AP champ, build to counter the fed AP champ and not your laner so chose wisely between banshees and spirit visage If the enemy team is Full AD obviously you arent going to get a MR item, if they have a fed attack speed champ, or if they are all attack speed champs get Thornmail, or get it when you are getting focused hard and dying fast. If you are pretty fed, and surviving well, get bloodthirster.
> [{quoted}](name=Ferrous Oxide,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=4xYfriAk,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-06T05:02:33.549+0000) > > Well it changes from game to game, but I always start Long sword three pots. > Then always Hydra first. > After Hydra it depends on how its been going if im against a tank like Nasus or Maokai get Black Cleaver, (if you are super far behind against said tank, get the tank item that counters them; Randuins or Banshees) > If im not against a tank but im against an AD caster like Yasou, Talon, Jayce, I get Randuins > If im against an Attack speed champ like Trydnamere I get Frozen Heart > If im againt an AP champ that relies on Burst I get Banshees' > If im against an AP champ that does sustained damage like Rumble I get Spirit Visage > > After that I look at who is the most fed on the enemy team, and I get whatever item from above that counters them however only ever get one MR item, unless they have a ton of CC, then get QSS as well. Always try to get a Frozen Heart and a Black Cleaver because 40% CDR means her Q is only a 2 second CD when you hit a unit with it. > > If you are playing ranked or draft mode, where you can see what the enemy is picking, and you know you are going to be going against a sustained AP damage top laner, and you know you are going to be building a spirit visage, since SV gives 10% CDR, have a rune page set up that has 5% CDR in your Glyphs, and take the 5% CDR in the masteries instead of the attack speed, that way with just black cleaver and spirit visage you have 40% CDR and you wont build frozen heart that game. > > > And remember your Q and E and Hydra are all AA resets, so your ideal combo is Q > AA > E for the slow > Hydra active > AA with the Auto Crit, with all the AA resets you can get all 5 of these hits off in about 1-2 seconds even with less than a 1 attack speed > > > EDIT: If laning phase ends before you can fully finish your first tank item, and you arent quite close to finishing it, such as if you have the specters cowl and not the health crystal for a banshees, then stop at the specters cowl and build the tank item that counters their fed player, then finish your first tank item. > > If their fed player is an AP champ, but you are also against a AP champ, build to counter the fed AP champ and not your laner so chose wisely between banshees and spirit visage Thank you for the explanation
: In general I had 10-15 more AD at lvl 1 than other fioras I fought
> [{quoted}](name=Ferrous Oxide,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=4xYfriAk,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-05T23:02:37.493+0000) > > In general I had 10-15 more AD at lvl 1 than other fioras I fought What is your build order?
: Considering I have 42 games played with reworked fiora and only 12 losses, Ide say the build is pretty powerful.
> [{quoted}](name=Ferrous Oxide,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=4xYfriAk,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-08-05T11:21:29.819+0000) > > Considering I have 42 games played with reworked fiora and only 12 losses, Ide say the build is pretty powerful. Fair enough, what runes/masteries did you use?
: I havent had any problems with Fioras new kit, its quite strong, and she feels strong throughout the entire game, and even when she gets behind she still feels useful because she can still out duel pretty much any other champ in the game. It seems as though people are building her far to squishy. Ideally I have found her best build to be Hydra, Black Cleaver, Frozen Heart, Randuins, and then Banshees or Blood thirster. This allows her to deal a decent amount of damage while still surviving well in team fights, with the black cleaver passive for movement speed, and randuins to slow, its very easy to catch and hit all 4 weak points from your ult. In terms of protection for herself, her W is extremly powerful, capable of blocking anything in the game, and not just one ability, but anything that hits her at all in the .75 seeconds that you have to hold still. This could mean 5 ults hit you at once and you take no damage. On top of this im fairly sure that if you block an AoE wit her W it blocks the CC for your whole team (maybe just a bug, but I W'd a Morgana ult and it didnt stun anyone on my team and again later to an amumu ult.) If thats not protection I dont know what is.
> [{quoted}](name=Ferrous Oxide,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=4xYfriAk,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-08-04T12:10:47.939+0000) > > I havent had any problems with Fioras new kit, its quite strong, and she feels strong throughout the entire game, and even when she gets behind she still feels useful because she can still out duel pretty much any other champ in the game. > > It seems as though people are building her far to squishy. Ideally I have found her best build to be Hydra, Black Cleaver, Frozen Heart, Randuins, and then Banshees or Blood thirster. This allows her to deal a decent amount of damage while still surviving well in team fights, with the black cleaver passive for movement speed, and randuins to slow, its very easy to catch and hit all 4 weak points from your ult. In terms of protection for herself, her W is extremly powerful, capable of blocking anything in the game, and not just one ability, but anything that hits her at all in the .75 seeconds that you have to hold still. This could mean 5 ults hit you at once and you take no damage. > > On top of this im fairly sure that if you block an AoE wit her W it blocks the CC for your whole team (maybe just a bug, but I W'd a Morgana ult and it didnt stun anyone on my team and again later to an amumu ult.) If thats not protection I dont know what is. Don't misunderstand, I find her new kit very fun and rewarding. In 1v1s. I have built a fairly durable Fiora, though I didn't consider building a large amount of tank on her as I tried to make use of an on-hit type build that would work well for splitpushing. The problem with a build like that is that it takes a long time to spike with power, if you ever do. Your W only lasts .75 seconds, which is great in theory, but 99% of the time you play Fiora you're going to block maybe two abilities with it if you're lucky. Again, W's cooldown is far too long to be practical. Yes, you can block a morgana Q, but then what? There are Jayce Q+E's, Amumu R's, Lux R's, the list goes on. You have to look at Fiora in her most likely scenarios, not just her ideal ones.
: It'd be interesting if when you ulted someone, you became invulnerable to enemy champions other than your target, and your target became invulnerable to the rest of your team. So it really is like a challenge to a duel.
> [{quoted}](name=CrazyMLC,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=4xYfriAk,comment-id=0000000000010001,timestamp=2015-08-02T04:41:26.428+0000) > > It'd be interesting if when you ulted someone, you became invulnerable to enemy champions other than your target, and your target became invulnerable to the rest of your team. So it really is like a challenge to a duel. While that's thematic, it'd be so broken in 1v2s specifically.
: new Fiora has better gameplay against her, is more interesting to play, makes her more viable, and removes a lot of her weaknesses (like lack of utility and waveclear) while fixing her anti-fun elements when against her
> [{quoted}](name=Stacona,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=AplPw8zz,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-07-31T19:21:35.690+0000) > > new Fiora has better gameplay against her, is more interesting to play, makes her more viable, and removes a lot of her weaknesses (like lack of utility and waveclear) while fixing her anti-fun elements when against her Full tank fiora doesn't seem to be how she was intended if you look at her recommended items. Tanks have engage or disruption, neither of which fiora has. Full tank fiora is a ludicrous idea and shows that if that's what makes her "viable", she is in need of more work than I thought...
: Hi! Yeah, we've been keeping an eye on Fiora's balance, and we suspect she might be a_ little_ weak. Accordingly, over the past few days we made the following changes, aside from the base HP nerf: Basic attack cast time 0.25 >>> 0.2 Attack Speed / Level 3 >>> 3.2 Passive healing 15+5.9/lvl >>> 20+5/lvl E slow 25/35/45/55/65 >>> 40/45/50/55/60 Those first two changes should make proc'ing vitals with basic attacks a lot easier. It's always going to be tough since the target is moving while you attack, but compressing the time it takes for Fiora to attack by bumping up the attack frame and giving her more attack speed should help quite a lot. We've also observed that though she can compete in most lanes, she has a particularly bad mid game lull when teams start grouping. So, we're moving around some numbers to give her power when she needs it most.
> [{quoted}](name=Stashu,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=xkRx5Hcg,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-07-30T17:59:14.968+0000) > > Hi! Yeah, we've been keeping an eye on Fiora's balance, and we suspect she might be a_ little_ weak. Accordingly, over the past few days we made the following changes, aside from the base HP nerf: > > Basic attack cast time 0.25 >>> 0.2 > Attack Speed / Level 3 >>> 3.2 > Passive healing 15+5.9/lvl >>> 20+5/lvl > E slow 25/35/45/55/65 >>> 40/45/50/55/60 > > Those first two changes should make proc'ing vitals with basic attacks a lot easier. It's always going to be tough since the target is moving while you attack, but compressing the time it takes for Fiora to attack by bumping up the attack frame and giving her more attack speed should help quite a lot. > > We've also observed that though she can compete in most lanes, she has a particularly bad mid game lull when teams start grouping. So, we're moving around some numbers to give her power when she needs it most. Hi Stashu! I've mained Fiora since S2 and I'm beyond thrilled that she's finally getting some TLC. As a player who only plays ranked up to gold to get his victorious skin (and did so as a Fiora main S4), I have serious concerns as to Fiora's new role in team compositions. Riot's whole spiel as of late has been strategic diversity, and has spent a great deal of resources to give champions like Gangplank and Ryze responsive and versatile kits to replace their old, one-dimensional kits. In low-ranked play these changes are almost non-factors, but really make a splash once the champs end up in the LCS. My concern is that Fiora feels useless in those mid-game spots, and it doesn't feel like it's because of numbers on her stats or spells. Fiora is nearly the perfect 1v1 melee champion (I really can't stress how much I enjoy and appreciate her kit, it's beautiful), but that's not what makes a champion in a team-based game. In a fighting game like SSB4, characters are all about 1v1s or 2v2s in competitive play. Characters have different tools to deal with different matchups, and through the skill of the player be brought to fight against any character to prove mastery of the game. In League the game is far more complex, and deals with far more than pure mechanics. Teams need to coordinate CC and damage to win a fight. Abilities start flying, and making your contribution as a teammate is what defines your skill at League. ADCs dish out the damage and kite, Supports usually CC and disrupt, Mids usually burst, tops usually disrupt and threaten enemy carries, and junglers can do nearly anything. Yes, Fiora can 1v1 like there's no tomorrow, but there *is* never a tomorrow for her as her late game playstyle is extremely frustrating! Her basic abilities allow her to fight one or two champions at once. She can block damage once per fight, and Q about 5 times in that time unless she builds full CDR, and even then you know the numbers. In a teamfight, Fiora can do nothing with any lead she may have earned through mechanical mastery to help her team. She cannot defend towers vs an onslaught of CC, tankiness, and damage; she cannot engage a fight in lieu of defending; and she cannot pressure side lanes past tier 2 towers as her tower-diving ability is nearly nonexistent. Fiora has so little current carry potential after the early game ends, as she struggles to contribute anything to a team that a lategame beast like Jax or Irelia can't do before scaling into that beast. It breaks my heart to see Fiora lose her late game relevance, as her fantasy-fulfillment of the most skillful sword-wielding duelist in Valoran can't be fulfilled as she can do no more than sit back and watch her team get decimated by a well-coordinated barrage of abilities. I really believe that the heal on her ult is what's holding her back. It doesn't give her any of the tools she needs to contribute to fights lategame, and worse, is given a name like "Grand Challenge" when in reality, it's finding a way to be useful as Fiora that's the real grand challenge. It would break my League-loving heart to have my favorite champion expunged from viability, especially after having been given such a promising new playstyle. Thank you for reading, I hope you can help us Fiora mains understand what direction she's supposed be taken in.
Rioter Comments
: An idea for Fiora; worth testing out
While I appreciate the attention to Fiora's kit, this addresses none of her current issues. If she needs any change, she needs her ult to give her a teamfight presence. I've suggested removing the aoe heal and using that aoe to give fiora stacks of her Q based on the # of enemy champs in the AOE on ult cast for its duration. This would let her fight more than one champ at a time (even could grant W charges so long as the ult mark persists) and give her the teamfighting presence she sorely lacks.
: Fioras ult needs to be changed, and here is how.
Add me on the PBE client to communicate and test stuff gubi. Fiora needs more dashes. I'd say her ult should be reworked into the following: Remove the heal, it is useless when it works in relation to her theme. Instead of the heal, use the AOE to do the following on cast: -Grant Fiora X number of charges of her Q ability as the number of enemy champions in the AOE of her sigil. She can hold that many charges for the duration of the ult mark. -Still reveals 4 vitals, but does not grant any effect other than those marks. (all 4 are nearly impossible to hit in a teamfight anyway.) This would keep her 1v1 power the exact same, but would allow her to get a "5 man ult" to get around the other 4 to actually contribute to a fight. If that does not give her some team fight power (she has none rn) then she could get charges of W in the same way. Allow her to deal with more than one champ, and this is an easy direction to go in. let me know your thoughts, I think this is a great direction to take her ult and kit in to allow her to be useful to a team.
: Trading Fiora's Old One Dimension Gameplay for Another New One Dimension Gameplay
Fiora needs more dashes. I'd say her ult should be reworked into the following: Remove the heal, it is useless when it works in relation to her theme. Instead of the heal, use the AOE to do the following on cast: -Grant Fiora X number of charges of her Q ability as the number of enemy champions in the AOE of her sigil. She can hold that many charges for the duration of the ult mark. This would keep her 1v1 power the exact same, but would allow her to get a "5 man ult" to get around the other 4 to actually contribute to a fight. If that does not give her some team fight power (she has none rn) then she could get charges of W in the same way. Allow her to deal with more than one champ, and this is an easy direction to go in.
: Fioras ult needs to be changed, and here is how.
Fiora is nearly impossible to make use of in late game team fights. Coordinated teams are impossible to bypass to get to carries with the amount of cc flying around. Having to use Fiora's W on a Bard stun is very punishing as you can't negate the gobs of damage a lategame Draven can dish out afterwords. Fiora is an exceptional 1v1 champ, and all of her power is focused there. This is problematic because she can no longer engage a 5v5, flank a 5v5, assassinate a well positioned carry and live, or threaten tanks. Fiora is neither front line nor back line as she can -at best- only take out a carry with a teammate with cc and damage away from a whole team. She is very good at split pushing, but has no other options aside from picking people off in the jungle looking for "1v1s". When fed, Fiora's 1v1s are "I will hit your vitals over and over, heal, and skewer you in roughly 8 hits." thematically fiora is perfectly fulfilling her role, though she is less useful to a team than she was before the rework. As a champion that can neither 1v2 while pushing towers for the win in the late game nor fight 5v5 type teamfights, Fiora has the role of Jax without the potential of outplay unless she's very, very ahead. Unless the populace learns how to work with her nuanced, yet simple kit, she'll be nearly useless as she can't close out games solo.
: Grand Minion Block (Rework Fiora's Only Real Issue)
I'd argue that New Fiora works very well in the top lane, and while minion block is there it's not crippling. I play her far more mid-game focused though. I bring teleport and try to just farm up to a Cutlass for the ranged slow that can be used to actually proc all 4 ult vitals without flash. I emphasize movepseed and sustained dps in my build which can be found here: http://www.lolking.net/guides/353968/preview
Happened to me especially after a kill on a Zyra.
: I think the ult is fine aside from how awefully hard it is to utilize. It doesn't fit with the tools she's been given. Fiora has a short-ranged dash, and scaling movespeed on her passive. If you wanted to hit her ult marks consistently you'd need to prioritize boots and a vamp scepter item like {{item:3153}} or the CDR item {{item:3142}} early on. If Fiora is too weak upon release I foresee them giving her more access to her dashes upon Ult-vital hits, lower W CD/more reward for actually utilizing it, or flat Movespeed on her passive vitals.
Honestly I'll make a YouTube channel with individual vids explaining why Fiora needs work. Illustrations, diagrams, stats, research, the whole shabang. Coming soon
: Fiora's Ultimate Ability
I think the ult is fine aside from how awefully hard it is to utilize. It doesn't fit with the tools she's been given. Fiora has a short-ranged dash, and scaling movespeed on her passive. If you wanted to hit her ult marks consistently you'd need to prioritize boots and a vamp scepter item like {{item:3153}} or the CDR item {{item:3142}} early on. If Fiora is too weak upon release I foresee them giving her more access to her dashes upon Ult-vital hits, lower W CD/more reward for actually utilizing it, or flat Movespeed on her passive vitals.
: Fiora has been my main since season 2, single-handedly getting me to plat this and last season, and all I can say is she's been absolutely obliterated. I don't see anything in the hideous artwork, bland animations, unexciting skills, and nonsensical attack design, that shows me even a spark of what she used to be. I'm actually appalled that this is what my favourite champion is becoming, and when these changes go through I'll be ashamed to own all 3 of her skins. I'm not even sure if I'm going to be able to try her, because everything about her just feels so wrong. To me, Fiora was someone who was mobile but only when moving towards a fight, high risk high reward and required absolute knowledge of how much damage she could do and take to play her well, someone who could beat her bad matchups if you were genuinely better than the person you were playing against. I don't even know what to do with this champion, I don't know if she actually does anything. And she feels like a melee draven, with some sort of minigame except likely only even feasible when playing against bots
We've both been Fiora mains for the same amount of time, we're like family! That being said I got to Gold twice with her (didn't play ranked during school.) and I feel very much as you do. Having played her I can say this: She's lost raw power in her defining areas, but is far more fun. Think of it this way, she had one of the most absurdly powerful ults before now, and that limited her kit's potential. While there's still a long way to go before she's tuned properly, she's now able to have hope for changes. Now instead of pure damage-swapping she can have aspects of her abilities changed in terms of effect or effect strength. She feels like a cross between Irelia and Vayne with none of the offensive utility. Her 1v1s are far more fun and rewarding, but she's not as able to solo carry without team coordination, and that's the real problem. I don't think she'll see competitive play, and her soloqueue performance will take a big hit until people learn to play with as they eventually learned with Thresh upon his release.
: Overall I think Fiora's new kit is in a good direction. However, there are a few things that I think should change to smooth out the feel of her. Auto attack- I feel the animation could be slightly sped up (similar to how Ekko's auto attack was changed). Fiora really needs to stick to her target and often stopping to auto with her animation just lets the target walk barely out of range to hit another auto, even with increased movement speed. Udyr is a great example of what to aim for, his auto attacks are fast and you can orb walk well with him. Passive- Fiora's passive can be quite hard to proc when close to a target, especially when chasing targets. Often it looks like the mark should proc but it doesn't. From what I've tested the hit registration starts on the outer edge of the circle of the mark. I think the hit detection would feel so much better if the registration started from the center of the champion outward. So 4 quadrants of the champion starting from the center for weak points. This would also help with bigger champions that have a larger circumference because it can take 100-200 units more to get around to the back of a target to proc a mark from when you're hitting them close up. In addition to this I think Fiora is a champ that perfectly fits the role for ignoring unit collision! Thematically it makes sense, gameplay-wise it makes even more sense. Call it fleet-footed or something or duelists poise or any number of names. Fiora is one of the champions that just feels awful getting creep blocked. With her new passive/ult it just makes sense to be able to dance around an opponent/minion wave. It's a minor buff, but it would make an incredible difference to the feel of her. Q- Not having two Q charges is a pretty big nerf to the ability. Not only losing a charge but losing a LOT of range. It's going from 2 600 range dashes to what, a single 400ish range (although the damage range is a bit longer). This is a huge nerf against ranged champions! Before you could dash to a minion and onto an enemy ranged champion. Now, if the ranged champion plays at their range it is extremely hard to close the gap. Also, the damage is quite a bit lower than before. Before at rank 1 the two dashes = 80+1.2 bonus AD or 40 + .6 bonus ad per cast. Now at rank 1 it's 65 + .55 bonus ad. With 30 bonus ad (runes/masteries/longsword) at lvl 1 thats...116 vs 81 damage. The bonus of the new Q is that you can use it to proc her passive and that it can proc on hit effects. If you build a triforce the spell has comparable dmg to the old Q. However, with the shorter range and single charge it becomes a much weaker spell in general. Taking into account that Fiora no longer has the option of going invulnerable for 2-3 seconds the missing mobility is very much needed. Also, unless you get to full CDR the ability has a relatively long cooldown. With full 40% CDR hitting Q puts it on a ~2s cooldown, which is still quite a long time for such a short range dash. Comparing this to champs like Riven or Yasuo or even Irelia at times it is pretty weak combined with the low damage. So, I think the ability should be changed slightly. Either the range should be reverted to 600 and keep everything else the way it is or give the ability two charges again before going on cooldown if you hit a weak spot. With the later change, using Q to disengage will only grant you the single short range dash. If the dash reset requires proccing the passive mark it wouldn't be overbearing. W-Overall I really like the changes to W. My only gripe is that the cooldown is extremely long. The old W was at a 9 second cooldown, the new one is at a 21 second cooldown! Not only has the cooldown been increased by more than double, it has now become a skillshot. I prefer the new vesion vastly, but shouldn't having to use more thought/skill to land Riposte be rewarded? I think a couple options could make the skill feel better. First is that the cooldown is just way too long for what it does. I would say start it at 15 seconds then down to 10 at max rank. Second option, keep the longer cooldown but make the reward for using it successfully better. If you successfully block an ability (maybe not a basic auto attack) than reward the player with a stun. A lot of matchups won't even have a CC spell to take advantage of the mechanic, so blocking a spell for the stun could be quite a nice change, again for such a long cooldown. The mechanic has quite a bit of counterplay already as well (don't attack when Fiora ripostes, bait out riposte before using CC, dodge the slow skillshot). E- Overall I like the new E, only thing I would change is to increase the slow duration with rank. From 1s to 2s at rank 5. R- Quite a strong spell overall that can turn the tides of a teamfight, if you're able to get it off at all. Grand Challenge is extremely hard to successfully hit all 4 weakspots. If the ulted target walked away from Fiora at all it's nearly impossible to get it off (on your own). I think this is fine though for how much the heal is and the fact that the heal procs if the target dies. So in teamfights if you pick the right target that your team can follow up on it's quite strong. The damage is also very good against squishies and tanks alike. With the suggested changes to the passive (hit detection/ingnore unit collision) it would make proccing the ult a bit easier. Though, it would still be pretty damn hard. Anyways, there is my feedback for her kit. I think with a couple changes she would just feel a lot smoother to play. With the rework Fiora is in a much different spot than she was. She is significantly harder to play, does less damage (early), and is much more vulnerable in teamfights. She is a whole lot more fun though! To play as, and against. As far as the visuals I only have one request! Please just reduce the size of her giant shoulder armor on the Nightraven skin. Reduce it by ~30% and IMO it would look much much better. The shoulder pad + the feathers = giant triangle 1.5x the size of her head. Aside from that, after the face model changes/hair changes I think she looks much better and much more familiar to the old FIora.
I totally agree with this. Fiora has had her power shifted heavily towards the midgame with the vulnerability she now faces and the low mobility she now has. Before this update Fiora was strong throughout the game if she stayed even in lane, and while she is still strong 1v1 without items in skill-based fights, she's very demanding without giving a lot of meaningful rewards. In my few pvp games with her thus far Fiora has a great laning phase. She can trade very well and farm up. Her ability to towerdive is gone as she can no longer double Q or R+E to escape. Because of this it's been necessary to take {{summoner:12}} instead of {{summoner:14}} because you simply have so few situations where you require the Ignite damage to win a fight. Fiora wins off of her opponents' mistakes, either positional or mechanical ones. Fiora has very little momentum in the game now. Her W makes her immobile, and while this is important for balance of the ability, really restricts the offensive power Fiora players are used to. Fiora used to be able to pick fights, and could even function as a soft initiator. Now Fiora has a fraction of the up-front mobility that had allowed players to snowball themselves without relying on their team. Fiora is a melee ADC, very akin to vayne. She has ample tools to fight people 1v1, but struggles without set-up in coordinated teamfights. Even if a Fiora is doing fantastically well, she cannot engage unless she's packing a GA, a Merc Scim, or has so much burst with Hydra that she can devour 5 squishies at once. Her update is great and as a Fiora fanboy since S2, I'm over the moon. She's far harder to play and her role has shifted tremendously. She now feels like a cross between an Irelia with no reliable utility and a Vayne with no dedicated support. As such her lategame teamfighting-related carry potential is severely diminished, and she is much more of a split-pushing distraction like jax. For Fiora's new role, the only reason to pick her over Jax is a better early game for a weaker lategame, when Fiora's new "light fighter" moniker doesn't really fit with such a conditionally sustainable dash. If I could change only one thing I would give Fiora flat movespeed from her passive that scales with level so that she is actually able to hit Vitals consecutively without having to wait for items like {{item:3142}} {{item:3078}} or{{item:3153}} as her 1v1 opportunities become scarce anyway.
: Going Tiamat first and finishing a Hydra are very different than rushing Trinity Force or Rushing Hydra. There's a lot of sustain you can get from the Hydra that she completely missed out on without even buying a Vamp Scepter at all. Mirror matches are also pretty luck based for Fiora now because it's who ever gets the easiest vitals the most often early on win the duels. While Stashu has said it alternates between easy to hit and hard to hit, it's really about if you get ones that aren't behind your enemy more often. The sides and front are pretty easy to hit, but one can also simply use her W to counter the Q and then return the damage. Overall, prolly her first time playing Fiora and decided after the Tiamat to just copy your Trinity Force build because they were sucking. lol. Not uncommon for people to ignore doing a custom game and go straight for a PvP match with a new champion kit they didn't even take the time to read about and it happens a LOT on the PBE. Judging by that ones build, you can tell that's exactly what happened because you don't get a Tiamat and call it a day. You finish a Hydra and get the mass AoE sustain, the 75 AD in total, and such.
I'm just saying that Trinity is what I personally will take to suit my playstyle. Both are fine options, but from what I've seen Trinity is a much more solid option, as Hydra takes as much time to complete and doesn't pay off until later. Trinity gives more early power which you need to start snowballing. CDR is so important on her now that her Q can be on such a short CD. Hydra delays mobility, barely affects burst or sustain in 1v1s, and just doesn't synergize as well as it used to.
: Fiora Feedback Thread
I'm a Fiora main, and have been since I bought her in S2. I reached gold with her, Galio, and Jayce in S4, my second ranked season. I started in Gold 4 this season, going up from the Gold 5 I had maintained during school the past year for the rewards. Even in this new meta and landscape I've been trying to play Fiora in ranked and normals. I was overjoyed to see her confirmed rework announcement on twitter just yesterday. So regardless of any gripes I have about the rework, I'll still be a Fiora main so long as I play this game. That being said let's get into it. **Appearance:** _Splash Art_ I fell in love with Fiora's character on sight when I saw a masterpiece of a splash art three years ago. A brilliant rose window and flowing hair of a fair woman with a red streak of hair. The new splash art contains those same elements in a more minimalist style, but Fiora's face has been butchered. It looks like she's 40/50 and got a botox job done. While her eyebrows are on fleek kappa, the changes to the hair on the back of her head, her left shoulder, and her shoulder cape in how they are emphasized has marred her appearance. I love the sword, I love the main clothing, and I love the armor aspects of the new design. _In Game_ In game Fiora has some problems. Instead of a poised and primed killer we have a prancing gymnast. Instead of a practical getup her shoulder armor is nearly the size of her head. In all seriousness her breasts are too large when compared to the Splash Art, and her shoulder cape doesn't even have the Demacian emblem on it anymore. I feel that the whitewashing was a little too strong on the details in her design. **Gameplay** 10/10 TL;DR: Praise Rito for the new passive, I love the new Q, I adore the new W, I'm thankful for the new E, and will learn the new R. Passive: Yes, perfect, 100% on the mark. This makes dueling make sense, and adds so much play potential on both Fiora's side and her opponents'. In practice it is easy to hit a mark by Q'ing to a side and letting the Q damage proc the mark. W allows you to proc at range, and E tend to have little synergy. Attack Champion Only will be incredibly vital on the new Fiora because of her frequent trading near minions. Difficulty went up to super high levels. Q: Possibly too strong, but not likely. With Fiora's cooldowns lowering over time she needs to max one ability first. Q is the obvious choice as it now refunds its cooldown like Gragas' dash on enemy hit. Not even champion hit, on enemy hit. This becomes a last hitting tool, a more moderate yasuo dash, and a reliable trading tool. Bread and butter right here. W: Now actually can block Yasuo Q. This is especially good in teamfights as you can use it like a sivir spell shield on 5.2 to dodge many things at once. It's uses include Moderate waveclear Safe mark proccing Gank diffusion CC for chasing The list goes on. I've played with it and can say it's best to max it last at least right now. E is too strong with the current interaction of E on turrets/inhibs with persistent attackspeed. E: What it needed to be. With a guaranteed non-crit AA reset, it's perfect for sheen proccing. The second hit makes it able to do sustained burst, and if you hit a mark you can scamper away. Otherwise it's only useful for last hitting and for now, tower pushing with the persistent 50% AS buff. For now I'd say max it second as it lets you crit for more, but it may end up as an ability you max last on release due to the static value of the AS buff and the value of having a stronger W. R: Meh. While it plays within the kit very well, it has made Fiora immensely harder to play. While harder is great and more rewarding, going to all 4 sides of an enemy is just not feasible in the early game. Until you have boots, phage, and some other movespeed buff + flash and Q, you really can't reliably proc all 4 marks, as the duration is fairly low early on. If the ability needs work I'd say make the ult have three marks instead of four. I say this because three larger marks would be much more reliable to fully hit than four simply due to the number of dashes you need to commit early on. I'll put it this way: If you wanted to proc all 4 marks in the current state early on, you'd need to hit one you're right next to, Q to the side and proc another, flash behind for the third, and maybe you get Q back by the time you can get near the 4th. If Riot's not expecting you to be able to proc all 4 until late game then they've done it right. If that's not the case, and they want to let players get the most out of their Ult reliably, especially if it's necessary to burn flash to do so, they need to change it's early state. Three marks would let you attack, Q, flash AA for (less than current) damage, but would proc the heal. Otherwise I like the new R, I think the healing is great and can allow for some towerdiving if you pull it off perfectly. Fiora's new kit is fun to play. Skillshot dashes, actually useful W, fitting E, and consistent R/passive gamepllay all make Fiora into a great AD caster. **Build and Item Usage** {{summoner:4}} {{summoner:12}} (Taking TP over ignite because you don't need the damage and you can focus on farm early while having lategame TP play potential.) Early game: Doran's Blade{{item:1055}} 1st buy: Vamp scepter{{item:1053}} 1st big item: Triforce{{item:3078}} (Why?) [Triforce gives movespeed through zeal and phage with allows Fiora to proc ult and passive. Sheen procs off of Q and E. Gives all the stats she needs, especially with how mana hungry she can get.] 2nd big item: Essence Reaver {{item:3508}} (yes really) [Fiora has bad mana issues if you want to keep up the pressure in fights. With drastically reduced rewards for aa'ing someone's face all at once, having the mana to use your abilities will be vital. The CDR also allows fiora to hit a clean 40%CDR if you take the Sorcery Mastery, CDR boots{{item:1334}} , and Ghostblade {{item:3142}} along with ER. The other big thing is triforce build order. Sheen is best first as it lets you use more abilities and do more burst in lane. Phage is next to synergize with ult and passive, though it can be built earlier in a less squishy matchup. Zeal is last, but finish triforce for the bonuses. ER will let you stay out of the base for longer and will let you spam you abilities for days. After {{item:3078}} {{item:3508}} you can go to any AD items, but my recommended build is this {{item:3078}} {{item:3508}} {{item:3158}} {{item:3142}} {{item:3074}} {{item:3026}} If you want to make substitutions I recommend {{item:3153}} instead of {{item:3074}} {{item:3139}} instead of{{item:3026}} or {{item:3035}} instead of {{item:3142}} Here's my first PVP game with her http://i.imgur.com/cKTD3iw.jpg Even through 2 DCs and a double mirror match, just a triforce was able to net me the majority of my (and the team as a whole)'s kills, Hydra is no longer core due to your abilities' power to wave clear sufficiently. One armor pen item is crucial, and one defensive "save your dead butt" item for lategame if you whiff W. Thanks for reading guys, hope you love the new Fiora as much as I do.
: I personally disagree with your build, but different values, playstyles, priorities... Doesn't really mean much. Plus I suck. Everything else I agree on. That face SERIOUSLY does not look like someone (from my understanding) the same age as Lux... Unless being from a more respected family gets you the good plastic surgeons. Her running animation looks like a cartoon in slow motion, and (at least on her base skin) her hair looks plasticky and the stripes are way too pink. But the kit looks and feels like a very skill-based dueling champion who can easily 1v2 and come out at full health simply from playing well not because you're just that fed.
The kit is great, she doesn't look great (lol T.T) here's the proof: http://i.imgur.com/cKTD3iw.jpg
: With... less AA reliance..? You have me at a loss there. Fiora is still an AA champ, she just has to hit Vitals as well, which means orb-walking. A good player in general knows how to hit and move at the same time, especially when it comes to certain mains like ADC, Xin, Yi, Tryn, Yasuo, Fiora, Aatrox, and other AA-based champions mains. Just AA in between steps and use the Q to proc the vitals. You shouldn't run oom unless you're using your W to poke which you shouldn't be since it's your defense tool that's best used to prevent any kind of engage or if your opponent is some one who's entire kit is meant to trade like Riven or Renekton, you have to have it ready or else you'll use it, then they'll initiate onto you and destroy you. This is ESPECIALLY true now since Fiora's bases are near garbage tier, though her scaling with pure AD is simply astronomical. Her passive alone has a 2.8% of her bonus AD as HP % true damage up to 4.5% HP True damage per vital, depending on level. Her Q isn't too great base damage and the scaling is only at a 60% of AD. It's entire point is for hitting vitals or last hitting, not really for damage. Her W is for trades, and the E is your standard steroid. Her R is SUPPOSED to be hard to hit and it's not meant to give a heal mid-combat because you proc all of it and now you're using it to win the duel. It's SUPPOSED to be used when you know you can kill them without hitting all 4, that way when they DIE and you're LOW because of duel, you heal up. The heal itself has a 60% ratio per sec, meaning over 5 seconds, you heal for 300% of your bonus AD on top of the 80-140 per sec, 400-700 over the duration. I'd definitely say the Trinity should not be rushed since her damage isn't very good and it doesn't help her much early since she's all ratios without much damage and while a Trinity makes her Q's poke on a vital pretty good, if you're against a tankier top who has armor, you'd get more damage by getting a big AD item like Hydra over TrinityPhreak since you'd be able to make your VITALS hit for more % true damage.
What I meant was more along the lines of "Less Attackspeed reliant". Fiora has a far more "darty" playstyle if you want to maximize the value on her Q's CD refresh from what I've seen thus far. I don't like going Hydra on the new Fiora. While it used to be core due to the synergy on her ult and E, the new kit just doesn't need it for the same reasons. Yasuo benefits from Hydra similarly, his Q procs the on hit to do faster waveclear, and Yasuo and Fiora make about the same use of it in 1v1s. I have run into mana problems because I like going triforce first, I haven't tested it enough to know which is the "most efficient", but I do know that the triforce is for proccing her passive. Tiamat cleave does not affect the passive in any meaninful way, and doesn't give you a sustained power increase like triforce does. Fiora's base stats are low, and simply having triforce gives her a lot of up front power you don't get from tiamat/hydra. I run into those mana problems because i'm weaving spells like Q and E. Looking at base mana alone, fiora needs around 20% of her mana to activate her ult, which leaves her very dry if she doesn't win that trade. With such reliable engage power and defensive attributes it's almost a crime to not allow fiora to sustain outside of lane while having access to her new, good abilities. I suppose the ult is fine as is, I simply hope it lives up to further play testing. Trinity is better against tanks because of the movement and health that allows for easier passive procs and more durability. In this game I mirrored vs a fiora who went tiamat first, my team fed across the map, but I still had a tremendous impact. http://i.imgur.com/cKTD3iw.jpg
Rioter Comments
: Royal guard firoa
The models are so obtrusive now. Before they were sleek and sharp, now they're just really exaggerated and cartoonish. I get that league is leaning more on that side now (Garen) but still, Fiora's old artistic design was so good from an art perspective, gameplay clarity aside.
: New Fiora splashart is a bit strange
Agreed, she looks catlike and old in her new splash. Before she looked about in her twenties, and had an amazingly well done splash art (really it was gorgeous). I'm sad they smoothed out so much of the details that gave fiora her old look, namely the shoulder cape. Why it's a blank triangle now is beyond my understanding, the three ribbons were so cool.
: Fiora Run Animation
In all honesty I don't know why they had to scrap so much of Fiora's old look. It was fantastic as it was, and the cool and collected champion of old is now teetering on the edge of goofy-french-deer status.
: Fiora and Inhib/Nexus interaction.
If it's a bug that's fine, but it made me think of how her old E was good for pushing turrets.
: Hexakill Enabled on PBE!
I personally didn't like this gamemode. While it's expected that you won't be playing within the meta, full AP teams are simply too strong. When the enemy team has a karthus, the new xerath, a brand, an orianna, a lee sin, and a Caitlyn there is very little one can do once one team gains the lead. 6 people on a team is far too much to be able to do anything besides teamfight, making global ults and high range/high aoe champions dominant. The worst part of the experience was that i had to lane in mid against a brand and an orianna. It was simply nerve-wracking. If people will want to have fun in this mode they will need more time to pick champions to have a good experience.

CagedBird

Level 30 (PBE)
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