: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Marauder Alistar & Marauder Olaf!
Alistar's horns may be a lil over the top large other than that, lovem
: Might possibly want to evaluate E max first now. Extra damage from both projectile and stun proc adds up to a sizable damage spike per rank, and you get extra cdr for more potential stunning. But I don't really like it. It feels clunky and odd for skarner if Q works slowly and weakly. Q gets very subtle bonuses from rank ups now. No base damage increase: only cooldown reduced and a higher ad ratio. It is strange. E max first being viable does not feel desirable. I could be wrong tho. Probably underestimating the effect of the damage scaling from **total AD** _twice_
i have been maxing e in my last few games, quite good for rapid trades in the jungle
: I still dont think that the enemy team needs more incentive to capture skarners zone. I know its only a quick bit of vision and 15-30g, but it still doesnt feel to me like the enemy is making a meaningful choice. Is it capturable? Am I nearby? Taking it. Why WOULDN'T an enemy take the zone? If there is not a meaningful choice there, it just hurts Skarner's passive as a whole. My BIGGEST thing is still making the zone buff, and thus Skarner's passive, more reliable. If Skarner is anywhere in a zone he controls, that zone should not be captureable. Plain and simple. You should only be able to take it from him if he is away from home. Otherwise, Skarner claims DOMINION!
dont let me into my zone~ dont let me into my zone~ se this circle here? thats mai zone.
: It is my personal opinion, but Skarner aught to feel like a jungle GOD since a lot of his power is stuck to neutral objective zones. The other problem is still the fact that a coordinated team can simply deny Skarner his power. That is the one HUGE balancing fact here, is that yes, Skarner feels powerful, really powerful. This is a good thing. Outside of his zones (prior to this last fix) he felt terrible and pathetic. The new items are hard to factor, simply because EVERYONE will have these new items. Think of how they are gonna boost some other champs power levels. It won't just be Skarner that feels stronger because of item changes. The primary thing to look at is the kit. Does the KIT feel too powerful? And I mean SANS items, because as I said, everyone gets items.
was testing in custom game, had 6% movespeed increase with masteries and runes... got 503 basic movspeed with{{item:3009}} {{item:3078}} and a charged {{item:3742}} ive always played him with excessive movespeed before but.. this. this is new. (and this calculation is before turning on the spire passive or his W... which combined reached like 650/700 just to let you know.)
: Suggestion here: What if - when he's grabbed someone with his ult - he gains bonus Movement Speed when walking towards a Crystal Spire. So when the enemies are fighting JUST outside of them you can force them to fight inside of them ... ? :D
actually tommoro his ult will proc his passive, gaining 100 movespeed for 1.75 seconds!
: umm... I'm not sure but it seems that the zone increase didn't made it through, curious to know why. You mentioned that skarner's strategic niche is best in class neutral objective control. So why didn't you take it farther and gave skarner a global bonus once he's capturing all the zones? It makes sense thematically, and actually gives skarner and the enemy team a reason to fight over those objectives, you can make it so only skarner can capture those zones to prevent abuse cases
actually just looked it over, the change did go through but it didn't really change that much
: umm... I'm not sure but it seems that the zone increase didn't made it through, curious to know why. You mentioned that skarner's strategic niche is best in class neutral objective control. So why didn't you take it farther and gave skarner a global bonus once he's capturing all the zones? It makes sense thematically, and actually gives skarner and the enemy team a reason to fight over those objectives, you can make it so only skarner can capture those zones to prevent abuse cases
oh wait your right, there is no difference in ring size, i totally didnt notice that
: My feelings are still the same. If these changes must go through could we try this pls? 1) No gold or vision for capturing Skarner's spire. They already get the reward of killing a lot of his power, if anything they should get slowed and be revealed for doing so, alerting Skarner that his area has been/is being taken. 2) The opponent should not be able to capture Skarner's zone if he is ANYWHERE inside of it. It is already balanced by being in fixed locations that can be stolen. It doesn't need more "counter play". 3) Keep his Q stacking for attack and movement speed, and lower/change the buffs from the spire. Putting more of his power in his actual kit makes him still useful once he leaves his jungle zones. The more power you invest into his special rocks, the worse he is overall, because again, it can be taken from him. I would rather see a smaller attack speed buff (15-20%+5% per level) and an AR/MR buff while in his zone. The MS is ok, but if someone is dumb enough to fight me in my little power zone, I want to be scary and hard to kill, not better at running away or chasing them out. He's a protector, right? 4) Lower E's cooldown to 10/9/8/7/6 and its mana cost to 35/40/45/50/55. The cooldown because its all his cc now. The mana cost because it does no dmg and is hard to hit at times. Thats my thoughts.
wait didn't someone say that if a champion of the team that owns the shine is currently inside that the shrine cannot be captured? i am unsure, if you would like to add me in the pbe we can test this if you like
: PLEASE. I love Murksphere, it's the best support item ever.
which is exactly why it wont come in till a major rework of its gold/shield generation shield scaling
: Current Q on this would be good. New Q without MS/AS is not. PLEASE CONSIDER PUTTING BACK HIS Q BONUSES YOU'RE PUSHING HIM TO ONLY BE A JUNGLER WHEN SKARNER TOP IS ACTUALLY HALFWAY DECENT THE ULT BUFF HELPS, BUT THE Q IS REEEEEALLY NEEDED. All caps because I feel strongly and YELLING IS COOL.
the full package of the q stacks (ms, ats) have been moved to his E, read it again. :)
: Out of curiosity, what made you decide that his spires should cover Red buff/Krugs rather than Red buff/Razorbeaks? I feel like that region would have more influence in a typical game, but maybe that's why you chose not to use it.
mainly cause krugs is a potentual starting camp that riot probably wants to encourage the use of, with the mana regen on his spires he can practically give his midlane blue lvl1, ergo starting blue is unnecessary
: No, but he'll still get the cooldown return in that case.
thank you for listening to the fanbase. it means a lot.
: Oh god all this (out of date)negativity! A petition? Really. I for one am quite content with him as is with this patch, the radius of his spires didn't quite reach as far as i thought they would but that is of no matter, they cover what is needed and then some. the return of his movespeed is glorious and can be immediately felt in his gameplay. what many people forget here is the new items are being taken into acount with his rework. he won't NEED that q movespeed buff because all he has to do to get that speed back(and then some) is to pick up {{item:3742}} ! His E is up quite often even without any cdr and with even 10% it is up quite frequently. and now that he has the HIGHEST base ad in the game {{item:3078}} will be even more valuable on him. i have already devised a build that should cover any situation that he may be up against and still give him all the essentials. while a lack of lane presence is disappointing, we shall see what RiotRepertoir and crew can do with this new build
just read through the EVEN FRESHER CHANGES, i am straight giddy for this new patch
: Skarner PBE Changelist and Feedback Thread
Oh god all this (out of date)negativity! A petition? Really. I for one am quite content with him as is with this patch, the radius of his spires didn't quite reach as far as i thought they would but that is of no matter, they cover what is needed and then some. the return of his movespeed is glorious and can be immediately felt in his gameplay. what many people forget here is the new items are being taken into acount with his rework. he won't NEED that q movespeed buff because all he has to do to get that speed back(and then some) is to pick up {{item:3742}} ! His E is up quite often even without any cdr and with even 10% it is up quite frequently. and now that he has the HIGHEST base ad in the game {{item:3078}} will be even more valuable on him. i have already devised a build that should cover any situation that he may be up against and still give him all the essentials. while a lack of lane presence is disappointing, we shall see what RiotRepertoir and crew can do with this new build
: Is Warmogs supposed to be healing this much?
another thing to keep in mind, you HAVE to have over 3000 health for any regen other than base to occur so one would have to already invested largely into health for it to make the regen start paying for itself
: @Riot, could we rename the Titanic Hydra?
honestly the shoutcasters can just say "titanic" instead of hydra, rolls off the tongue just as well
: Yeah, I've seen that suggestion (or ones very similar) a few times now. I'm not entirely opposed to it, especially if it were non-champions. I think champions should be able to succeed by staying away for the set amount of time. Good suggestion!
honestly i only ask for it in the clearing of camps anyways, being able to focus down a single minion while not worrying whether or not the stun will despawn would be great :)
: Something I liked about Skarner is he played like a "stabby racecar" as I believe someone put it. That's how I played him anyway. Stabby racecar fun. In comparison, this Skarner plays like a like a tricycle with a foam bat. Tricycle not fun.
> [{quoted}](name=Planet Piss,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=d2bmpMif,comment-id=00240002,timestamp=2015-08-06T07:43:38.095+0000) > > Something I liked about Skarner is he played like a "stabby racecar" as I believe someone put it. That's how I played him anyway. > Stabby racecar fun. > > In comparison, this Skarner plays like a like a tricycle with a foam bat. > Tricycle not fun. your data is out of date, re read the new changes
: One last thing I might add is to make Skarner's team's turrets give the same buffs in their range. That makes him much more valuable in fights where the enemy dives his team's area of control. **It would also keep lane Skarner fairly viable.** And if he loses the turret, he loses the buff, so he can't simply have huge pressure over all of the map all the time. However, it COULD be problematic to give him that much presence over the map.
> [{quoted}](name=encyclopedea,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=d2bmpMif,comment-id=00680000,timestamp=2015-08-06T07:40:53.748+0000) > > One last thing I might add is to make Skarner's team's turrets give the same buffs in their range. That makes him much more valuable in fights where the enemy dives his team's area of control. **It would also keep lane Skarner fairly viable.** And if he loses the turret, he loses the buff, so he can't simply have huge pressure over all of the map all the time. However, it COULD be problematic to give him that much presence over the map. could work but the mana regen buff would be ridiculously powerful in lane, would have to be nerfed or removed entirely for towers
: For this particular item, not too concerned. If you have to run at opponents to catch them, its stats + strategic mobility + closing mobility + a bit of on-hit power. If you can gap close easily, it's much less efficient - you don't get much closing mobility out of it. For the juggernaut items overall, there will definitely be some problem cases of champions poaching the new items and doing totally inappropriate things with them - something we'll be keeping an eye on. That's not to say that any poaching would be a problem, just gonna have to keep an eye out for gap-close champs out-juggernauting juggernauts, or just being generally overpowered. There'll be a bit of an adjustment period.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=pu4sZtr7,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-08-06T03:15:39.104+0000) > > For this particular item, not too concerned. If you have to run at opponents to catch them, its stats + strategic mobility + closing mobility + a bit of on-hit power. If you can gap close easily, it's much less efficient - you don't get much closing mobility out of it. > > For the juggernaut items overall, there will definitely be some problem cases of champions poaching the new items and doing totally inappropriate things with them - something we'll be keeping an eye on. That's not to say that any poaching would be a problem, just gonna have to keep an eye out for gap-close champs out-juggernauting juggernauts, or just being generally overpowered. There'll be a bit of an adjustment period. question, mainly thematically, would it be possible to have it so when the passive is fully charged, the champion runs with the homeguard run animation? idk if it already does only used it on skarner but it would be SWEET to see Rek'sai or Sion going all out in their haste to get to the enemy.
: The Skarner mains should be mollified by this. I'm glad it's making the transition, it was a fun item that wasn't too warping. I'm curious about how you guys feel about the Lost Chapter AP items - I thought they were a lot of fun to play with, and a refreshing take on the otherwise boring Morellonomicon. Rite of Ruin might be a bit too potent right now... it's a little scary on Cho'gath.
> [{quoted}](name=Meridian Knight,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=pu4sZtr7,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-08-06T03:13:32.799+0000) > > The Skarner mains should be mollified by this. I'm glad it's making the transition, it was a fun item that wasn't too warping. I'm curious about how you guys feel about the Lost Chapter AP items - I thought they were a lot of fun to play with, and a refreshing take on the otherwise boring Morellonomicon. Rite of Ruin might be a bit too potent right now... it's a little scary on Cho'gath. i am incredibly mollified by this lol (although they are already reverting the movespeed nerf) also the effects of the item look SICK on battlecast skarner
: Add {{item:3924}} too,it is a fun item,and not even OP.
> [{quoted}](name=Hörraiken,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=pu4sZtr7,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2015-08-06T05:48:40.449+0000) > > Add {{item:3924}} too,it is a fun item,and not even OP. most of the items from the black market will get into the game at one point or another, as a skill on a champion or simply as an item.
: Seems like it would be an insane defensive item on more mobile champs like Hecarim or Vi who are more likely to land an auto where it counts. I'm just speculating as I've only ever built the item once on BMB, but I mean, it's got some really good stats on it. Are you guys worried about other, more dive-y bruiser classes "poaching" the item or is it no big deal/intentional?
> [{quoted}](name=aperson13,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=pu4sZtr7,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-06T01:59:03.608+0000) > > Seems like it would be an insane defensive item on more mobile champs like Hecarim or Vi who are more likely to land an auto where it counts. I'm just speculating as I've only ever built the item once on BMB, but I mean, it's got some really good stats on it. Are you guys worried about other, more dive-y bruiser classes "poaching" the item or is it no big deal/intentional? well you lose ALL movespeed as soon as you autoattack, so you will most likely not get too many outlying cases
: Skarner PBE Changelist and Feedback Thread
alrighty, apparently almost no one has noticed the edit you have placed in. at this point i couldn't be more pleased with this update. only thing at this point would be, again, is that his q refreshes the timer on his stun mark, running around to hit each target hit is a bit clunky and this could give him a bit more time to reach each target marked.
: Skarner PBE Changelist and Feedback Thread
Alrighty, played a game with him, it was bugged and i didnt have my pillars but that didnt make my clear any slower than live, skarner rework is generally ok, but i feel that the 15 movespeed that he is missing hurts and that if he could get his ramp up movespeed effect on his q to return that would be awsome, movespeed movespeed movespeed. On other things, a quality of life update you could give him that would make his clear a bit less clunk is that you could make it that his q refreshes the cd of his stun(like how Vel'koz's passive is refreshed with autos), very awkward to individually auto each minion before the effect runs out. last note, unknown if intentional (very cool if it is) but if you mark someone with your E passive, and then ult them, the e passive will stay till after the ult duration, allowing him to root them in place after the ult goes down. Honestly, i like this quirk, gives an interesting mastery variable with him.
: I've been trying to figure out what the point of the changes are. Up til this point, I've been on-board with every rework Riot's tossed out, and I really don't care if my favorite champs are nerfed. That's just how things are... but this is the first time I've not been able to figure out what Riot's trying to do. I played a lot of Skarner during pre-season 5 and at the start of season 5, so it's pretty clear to me what some of Skarner's major weaknesses are: artificial terrain, movement speed modifiers, general disengage. So he's pretty kiteable. That's the point. It's counterplay. He's also got a shield on his W to ramp him up in speed and close the gap, an E to use once the gap is almost closed, and the Q and his AAs to seal the deal and lock them down. Changing slightly at 6 onward, due to how Impale works, of course. That's fundamentally how Skarner works. So I'm looking at these changes and I'm wondering... what are they supposed to accomplish? I don't really care if parts of Skarner's kit get nerfed in order to make him an overall stronger champion. That's fine. I don't see what part of these changes are going to actually DO for him. The major change is his passive. When you hit people with your Q, E, and AAs, they'd get stacks, then you'd get a stun on them. Great. You kite him off, you don't get stunned. That's fine. Counterplay. The issue is them tying this to his E. Why is that such an issue? Making his E stronger SHOULD be fine, right? Well, not in my opinion. After playing a lot of Skarner, my realization was that Skarner is great in PROLONGED FIGHTS and picking someone off with his ultimate otherwise. Tying that strength to his E allows him his stun ONLY on the target it hits... well the problem with that to begin with is that Skarner's E incredibly hard to hit at anything beyond almost melee range, and even then, it isn't a very wide hitbox, so it's something that's quite jukable. To have it on the cooldown that it is, AND have Skarner's pre-6 ability to brawl tied down to his E is extremely unfortunate. The stun is also of help during your clear, though the new passive's change of giving him AS during your buff camps is pretty helpful there too. Basically a net neutral there in that regard IMO. So BASICALLY, what this does is prevent Skarner from those extended fights and his ability to brawl it out is severely reduced, which is one of Skarner's major strengths, and one of the main reasons I kept playing him. In neutral lane position, without lane-assisted CC, it IS easy to kite him off. When pushed, or when you do have a laner with good CC, Skarner was great in that fight, and good in teamfight brawls. You were consistent damage in a fight, if you get in, and have small stuns to toss about the team as the fight goes on. I think that's fine. Ranged champions kite him around if he doesn't Flash-Impale, or he got in to the fight via flanking. The strength in the ultimate is the same, and the Q is weaker in its damage. As is your base MS. The Shield seems stronger, but I would have to do the math with his level 1 base HP. The Crystal Spires, to be honest, those seem incredibly underwhelming too. I'm having trouble figuring out what the point in the changes are. This is my take. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I had the wrong idea about Skarner and I was playing him wrong, who knows? I'm not the best player, but I feel like I had a good grasp on the champ and had a consistent win rate with him. Only dropped him so I could get out of the jungle and re-learn other lanes. So if there's something I've missed the last few months of not playing Skarner, or it seems like I've got something wrong... shoot, tell me, tell me what these changes are supposed to do for Skarner because as it is? I see nothing but an overall nerf and a redistribution of power onto his E that fundamentally does not make sense. Mind you, this is all said BEFORE I play him in the state that he is on the PBE. I just don't see what these changes are intended to do to Skarner.
Sustained, or "Prolonged" fights is EXACTLY skarner's forte. I have played skarner through all of his iterations and have developed a very specific style of play. many people build him as a slowing tank with Iceborn and Frozen mallet, but i found his true strength in his ability to potentially out run any champion with his massive movespeed buffs, easily running down(or running away) any ADC, Assassin, or Mage. The longer he stays in combat, the more powerful he becomes, to the point where at full tilt he can outfight multiple champions at once, but the only way this combat style could exist is with his current passive that is tied with his q, he NEEDS the stats and damage that comes from ramping up his Q and W to max power. with these changes to his base movespeed and stun/movespeed/attackspeed no longer stacking on his q i am at a loss at how to make him work for actual combat and not powerfarming.
: It's a good point! We actually try and stay away from a pure black color as it does not translate very well in-game =/ It's very hard to shade black it so we try to keep it a bit lighter. Hope that sheds a bit of light!
Technically, i would say hes a bit too dark! (GS khazix is a lighter purple) also, for his crystal texture, i would say that they need to be more green. (again, gs kha has green claws and jewels)
: Yes it stacks (multiplicatively). Mercs + Iron gives you 51% tenacity without the mastery. You can laugh at this puny thing they call CC now.
oh good, i always wanted to just ignore people.
: Replacement for Elder Lizard
Dragon at the 5th stack gives a burn effect on hit to all team members i think...
: Damage
did you slay the dragon? one of the stacks it gives (2nd i believe) gives a large damage bonus against minions
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