: Rengar changes for tomorrow (3/8) A bunch of bug fixes. > Fixed a bug where Rengar would instantly attack twice upon landing if he cast Q while leaping. > Fixed a bug where Q leaps would grant 3 fast attacks (instead of 2) > > Fixed a bug where Nightstalker Rengar wasn't playing particles on Q There's currently a bug on live that allows Rengar to get "free" attacks from leap if he casts Q while in the air. This is NOT working as intended. Fixed it. What is working as "intended" is when a Rengar with very high AS gets a fast follow-up attack after a long leap. This is due to his attack timer starting at the beginning of the leap, so by the time he lands it's almost time for another attack. Would argue this functionality isn't "ideal" but is in-line with how attacks work in league if you assume the time spent leaping is Rengar's "attack cast time" (they start the attack timer on cast begin). I think a better implementation would be to have him wait whatever his *---Total Attack Timer - Basic Attack Cast Time---* is, but that sort of thing has turned out to be much more difficult to implement than it sounds without risking introducing more bugs. I accidentally removed Nighstalker Rengar's Q particles when I made the base skin work with Tiamat. Oops. Sorry about that. Keep your eye out in the future for balance changes (buffs) that we'll be putting in to compensate for the upcoming duskblade nerf.
Nooo! Rengar was absolute dog shit until i started animation canceling his autos, was trying to keep that hidden. He'll probably need buffs to compensate. Please increase leap speed
: Final update for 8.5. > Q can no longer be canceled. Thoughts: Removing the Q being cancellable. While it did a lot of good for the feelings of smoothness in Rengar's moment-to-moment pattern I in the end decided to revert the change for 2 key reasons: 1) The change made the Q feel much worse on high ping environments. Would often result in attacks you thought had canceled going through, and attacks you thought you hadn't canceled not going off. 2) Since the assassin update, Rengar's new ferocity system has gained a lot in terms of consistency. It's very easy to track your ferocity gains because "execute spell" = 1 ferocity point (the old Rengar had to hit abilities to get the points). Q being cancellable felt off in this new system as there would be numerous times where you THOUGHT you hit your Q (saw the animation, particle, and heard SFX) but you'd cancel it a tad early and not get the ferocity point, interrupting your entire combo's flow and your mental tracking of how much ferocity you have. If you see Q cast, you should get the point in most situations. As a side note to this, I'll be making it so Q's that are lost due to things like dodge and blind still grant ferocity in 8.6. Wasn't confident that I could make that change bug free for 8.5. Finally, there have been reports of live Q feeling "sticky" (like you can't cancel out of the winddown animation AFTER it hits), so I'll be investigating that to see if there's any feel gains to be had there for 8.6. No guarantees anything will come from that... Thanks for all the feedback friends. Rengar should hopefully a lot better in 8.5 w/ more changes to come in 8.6 (we'll be looking at numbers in that patch in case all the "buff fixes" for 8.5 don't get him in a good spot.)
Any way to get the art department to work on Mecha Rengar's colors? The biggest thing that bothers me is that his blade color doesn't match his visor color in 75% of his chromas. It would make the skin look way better.
: Small update for tomorrow (2/28). In light of the significant feel and flow improvements (Buff-Fixes) that we're shipping for Rengar this patch we're going to go light on the straight numbers buffs. Should he remain weak after 8.5 we'll focus on numbers in 8.6 > Q > Base Q remains buffed > Empowered AD Ratio:: 1.4 >>> 1.3 (back to live values) > > R > Vision linger:: .5 seconds >>> Until end of leap (Live removes vision on leap begin) > > Bug Fix > We can no longer repro the bug where Rengar loses aggros and stands still after casting his spells. This means it is likely fixed D: >
Kudos to you August. I have no idea how you can communicate with the RengarMains subreddit. I've been there for a couple years now and I still cant understand them. The community isn't unified in opinion whatsoever so one person will ask for something and then everyone else will immediately complain about it. Half of them cant make complete sentences let alone qualify on giving feedback on a champion. Still, thanks for helping out
: > [{quoted}](name=salami legs,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=BrApFwN5,comment-id=00dd0005,timestamp=2018-02-27T13:54:47.282+0000) > > Any chance on reverting the leap speed reduction and reducing leap offset to 0 like originally? Leap offset being 0 is generally bad for the game as it causes a lot of weird zero point issues where you end up inside the champ you dash to and it becomes hard for both you and them to use skill shots correctly (because it is unclear what direction you are in relation to their position).
Doesn't irelia Q and Jax Q land 0 units from the target? I recall a really old bug where they could be immune to dragon damage because they could Q inside them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVYsH8EfIcM
: More PBE changes coming at you for tomorrow (2/27) Buffs + a METRIC TON of feel improvements and bug fixes. Specific callout to the change that makes the Q attack able to be canceled. PLEASE GO TEST AND TELL ME HOW IT FEELS. > **Buffs:** > P > Ferocity falloff timer:: 6 >>> 8 > > Q > Q damage:: 20/50/80/110/140 (+1.1 TAD) >>> 30/60/90/120/150 (+1/1.05/1.1/1.15/1.2 TAD) > Emp Q ratio:: 1.3 TAD >>> 1.4 TAD > > R > Rengar's true vision now linger for .5 seconds after the spell ends. > > **Bug fixes and feel improvements:** > Lockout duration on gaining full ferocity for E and Q reduced to .1 seconds (from .25) > Only the spell used to gain full ferocity is locked out > > Q attacks can now be canceled (like a normal basic attack) > > If Rengar presses Q or W during the E cast time he will now buffer those spells and cast them when the E completes. > ---------Previously movement orders would eat the input and you'd have to press Q and W again. This should make his Leap - E - W - Q combo feel a lot smoother. > > Fixed a bug where tiamat could sometimes cause Rengar's basic attacks to become the Q animation > Fixed a bug where Emp Q's attack frame was slightly faster than base Q > > Still hunting down the bug where he sometimes drops aggro on his target when casting E and W. We think we have a fix, but we're not sure. It's weird... **Thoughts:** Overall Rango is looking to be a tad weak on live so we're throwing in some buffs. The Q changes I made pre-release seemed good to go back on. Guess is that his overall damage is simply too low at the moment. Additionally, increased the time Rengar has before losing ferocity out of combat to compensate for the fact that the new Q makes it harder to generate and keep up ferocity. Finally, letting the truesight on R linger a bit after he leaps in. Was weird to see an enemy over a wall, right click on them to jump, and then lose vision the second you start your leap. Should now lose vision a tad after the leap ends. I expect he may need even more after this, but I'm staying on the conservative side due to the multitude of feel improvements that we're also trying to ship out (they should raise his power in more subtle ways). If he remains weak after 8.5 we'll give him another bump in 8.6 (with special consideration for the possible dusk blade nerfs). On the bug fixing/feel side, you guys were right. The ferocity lockout felt bad, especially with new Q, so we're reducing it/removing it as much as possible. It's still important to have a brief lockout on the spell you used to get to max to prevent double casts, but that doesn't mean the other spells need to be locked out as well. Letting people cancel the Q animation for maximum BM. Expect this makes him feel smoother and have less instances of getting accidentally locked into attacking something you didn't want to. It's also a smol nerf however, as making the attack cancelable means enemies that flash out of vision will cause it to not complete. I think one of the many reasons Rengar players seem to dislike the E cast time is that it can cause you to lose your inputs on W and Q if cast during the E. Creates a feeling of "wait I thought I pushed that button." Added some spell buffering to help remedy this, now W and Q should cast automatically at the end of E should you push the buttons during its cast time (provided you aren't CC'd of course). Can't repro the de-aggro bug on internal environments, which makes me hope that we fixed it...If anyone has reliable repro steps pls let me know. Thanks a ton, feedback appreciated. > Bonus point: > If you play {{champion:79}} , we noticed that he had a similar bug to Rengar, where attacking with his W just as the buff expired would cause it to fizzle. Should be fixed now on PBE.
Wow these are amazing buffs! I see that you mentioned lengthening the ferocity timer because of the difficulties generating ferocity with Q. What are your thoughts on making Q generate ferocity on cast to allow 1 ferocity generation while running away?
: Final update, before shipping (2/14). It's past midnight, but I think all the major bugs are fixed. Please let them be fixed... Here's notes on the ones you've all likely been noticing. > Fixed a bug where completing the Kha'zix quest would give rengar negative AD. > > Fixed a bug where Rengar Sense (the sounds and screen overlay enemies get while he's nearby in R) wasn't staying on enemies. It would pop on and immediately pop off after a couple seconds. > > Rengar can now stack bonetooth to 5 on Twisted Treeline. After killing his 3rd unique champ, the hunt list will be purged and he can nab stacks 4 and 5 by getting 2 more kills on different champions. Thoughts: No more bug-bugs. Thanks Kha'zix Rengar sense propagates to all enemies nearby (within 1200 range) of your closest target (the guy with the eyes over them). How to know who can sense you? If no one has eyes then NO ONE can sense you. If someone has eyes, they and all their nearby allies can sense you. That's at least how it should work. Hopefully I'm not surprised with more ult bugs. Some peeps were mentioning bonetooth can't stack in Twisted Treeline. Agreed. Now he can get 5 stacks on that map. For stacks 1-3 kill all 3 champs like normal. After this point your hit list will be reset. Kill 2 additional unique champs for stacks 4 and 5. Thank you all SO MUCH for the continuous streams of feedback. Appreciated. 12 hours to build lock. Home stretch.
Thanks again for all your hard work!
: > [{quoted}](name=BlackOps,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=BrApFwN5,comment-id=00d40005,timestamp=2018-02-13T13:36:04.877+0000) > > Yeah, there's this bug where you cant even use your full bonetooth in Twisted Treeline. It's weird cuz it scales exponentially so you end up only being able to get like 36% of the bonus you're supposed to get when you get all stacks. Please fix. > > to recreate bug: > 1. Queue for Twisted Treeline > 2. Pick Rengar > 3. Kill everyone > 4. Feel like a wet noodle late game with 16% less bonus AD > 5. Cry when you realize this isn't getting fixed in the small (probably never gonna happen again) window riot is actively looking at feedback and fixing bugs/issues That's odd...I can't seem to repro this :3 {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
Thank you so much! I didn't think you would see this, lol.
: Update for 2/13 PBE Bug fixes and nerfs today. > Q Damage:: 30/60/90/120/150(+1/1.05/1.1/1.15/1.2 TAD) >>> 20/50/80/110/140 (+1.1TAD) > Emp Q ratio:: 1.35 >>> 1.3 > > Fixed a bug where Rengar could Q a third time for free if he got his 4th ferocity point with Q > Fixed a bug where Rengar would lose his Q if it was primed while Ferocity proc > > Fixed a bug where bolas thrown during leap could sometimes be cast in the wrong direction. **Thoughts:** The Q nerfs are in response to worries that we may be making him too bursty. Q1 feels like a good place to hit since it's the most unavoidable part of his combo. Overall, new Rengar does LESS damage than live Rengar, but he's gaining reliability through Q, W CD, and the ult MS + less Rengar sense for enemies. We feel it's best to err on the side of caution for initial release and buff him up in 8.5 if he ends up too weak. I tried fixing primed Q's being lost to ferocity and ended up making the most reliable triple Q we've ever seen. Oops. Fixed up that exploit and made Q's held during ferocity work as follows: ---If Rengar gets to 4 ferocity while Q is primed he will not lose the Q buff. ---If he uses EMP Q, it will remove the normal Q buff refresh the CD. ---If he uses a different empowered abiilty, the primed Q will cast and expire like normal. ---If he attacks with the primed Q WHILE ferocity is at max, it works but does not grant additional ferocity. Fixed the bola going in random directions. It now gets its target vector at time of cast, not on cast end. Currently looking at another bug where R is not propagating "Rengar sense" (the screen overlay enemies get while Rengar is nearby in R) properly to enemies in range. Thanks for all the help! Just one more day for feedback. Keep it coming!
Yeah, there's this bug where you cant even use your full bonetooth in Twisted Treeline. It's weird cuz it scales exponentially so you end up only being able to get like 36% of the bonus you're supposed to get when you get all stacks. Please fix. to recreate bug: 1. Queue for Twisted Treeline 2. Pick Rengar 3. Kill everyone 4. Feel like a wet noodle late game with 16% less bonus AD 5. Cry when you realize this isn't getting fixed in the small (probably never gonna happen again) window riot is actively looking at feedback and fixing bugs/issues
: A number of bug fixes coming tomorrow (2/9) > **Bugs:** > Fixed a bug where Q would hitch Rengar's movement on activation > Fixed a bug where the correct Q CD would not display while ferocity was active. > Fixed a bug where Q would be lost if it was being held when ferocity activates. The Q buff is still removed, but the cooldown will be set to 0. > > **Tuning:** > Leap speed decreased slightly (by about 10%) > > Fixed a bug where Rengar's bonetooth necklace's bonus AD mult was multiplying itself. (This is effectively a nerf. Bonus AD from 5 stacks is now correct at 25% (from 33%), may need to buff the bonetooth mult in the future as compensation, but we expect that Rengar's current burst is tuned a bit too high). > > **Feature:** > Leaps that hit while Q is primed now play the Q hit SFX. **Thoughts:** Was able to fix a number of Q bugs you guys called out. Thanks <3 The bonetooth bugfix nerfs Rango's lategame AD. We think his damage might be too high however so will test without compensation for the time being. PLEASE GIVE FEEDBACK ON THE LEAP SPEED CHANGE IT IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A NERF. Was surprised to hear that some Rengar players wanted their leap to be _slower_ in order to make the in-air bola combo feel smoother. If this change actually achieves that it seems like a win-win. Rengar feels better to play and opponents have a tad more time to react. If this change makes him feel worse I'd be likely to revert it. Let me know.
Hey Jinx, Can you address the state of Rengar's Bonetooth necklace in Twisted Treeline? Is it intended that Rengar can only get 3 stacks or do you intend to make 5 accessible?
: no, YOU are great :3 <3 > I added "Rengar's next attack takes his target on a trip to stab town" for the tooltip on his empowered Q buff bar icon. Too much? no thats perfect. its funny and true lol. also, heres a small reminder of the current bugs in case you havent seen'em: 1. when in full ferocity the Q icon doesnt show the normal Q's actual cooldown. in order to test this get 3 ferocity and use Q to get 4 ferocity. normal q is on cd but the q icon when in full ferocity doesnt display it like the other spells do. 2. if you have 3 ferocity and activate Q and use another spell to get 4 ferocity, the q gets canceled and goes on cd. and for some weird reason, only if you get full ferocity this way, the Q icon shows the Q cd. lol 3. tiamat q animation doesnt work at all now. 4. i dont know why this hast been mention, but if you use your normal q you get a small attack speed buff, but theres nothing on the buff bar that indicates that. thank you so much for your work dude...i cant say it enough. thank you for giving rengar mains a chance and hearing our feedback. give this man a raise riot.
> [{quoted}](name=Explicit Rengar,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=BrApFwN5,comment-id=00c80003,timestamp=2018-02-08T11:23:09.742+0000) > 4. i dont know why this hast been mention, but if you use your normal q you get a small attack speed buff, but theres nothing on the buff bar that indicates that. Thats how it was before, probably intended. Most people don't know about the atk spd buff on normal Q since it only applies to 1 auto after the Q
: > [{quoted}](name=Rito jinxylord,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=BrApFwN5,comment-id=00c8,timestamp=2018-02-08T04:05:45.371+0000) > > Hi frens. Changelist for tomorrow (2/8): > > We&#x27;ve got a few bug fixes and A WHOLE LOT OF SFX/VO GOODNESS coming your way (thanks to Matteo, Rengar&#x27;s current sound designer) > > Thoughts - > W damage revert is due to the change feeling uneeded, he&#x27;s already getting a lot out of lowering the spell&#x27;s cooldown, not sure we need to buff its damage as well (Especially since his jungle seems to be doing fine despite losing old Q AoE). > > Crit Rengar&#x27;s rejoice, you can leap crit now (oh no) > > I added &quot;Rengar&#x27;s next attack takes his target on a trip to stab town&quot; for the tooltip on his empowered Q buff bar icon. Too much? > > We got a lot of feedback that the new Q sounds didn&#x27;t feel impactful. The new iteration should feel better. Tell us what you think. It&#x27;s unlikely we go back to OLD OLD sounds, but we think we can iterate the new ones to a point that feels good for y&#x27;all. > > Rengar kept talking during his ult. What&#x27;s up with that? HE&#x27;S PRIDESTALKING #$*@ IT! Now he should be nice and silent for feels of maximum SNEEK. (still says &quot;focus&quot; at the start ofc). > > We had these dope as hell bonetooth VO hookups that were going unused. Now they&#x27;re used. You should hear some pithy quotes whenever you collect a new trophy. &quot;Leave only a trail of bodies&quot; > > MORE BALANCE TUNING AND BUGFIXES TO COME. Thanks summoners. The feedback is great. what about 3 other bonetooth quotes? 1 "Spoils of the hunt." 2 "Never return empty-handed." 3 "What a glorious hunt." Also, can you add a circular indicator for 1600 distance on his ultimate (similar to Eve)? Everytime i ult i have to hover over R to see the actual radius. Color may be same as Warwick's R circle.
Agreed, "What a glorious hunt!" was a pretty satisfying quote after getting all your bonetooth stacks.
: Oh ya who ever though its a good idea to let Rengar break CC is an Idiot. So there is NO counter play
You must hate gangplank. His orange clears CC, requires no setup, doesn't cost him any damage ouput for using it, and it sustains him!
: Hey August, thanks for all you've been doing man, we really appreciate it. What do you think about increasing Rengar's leap timer (the time it takes his leap to get from where he is to the target) to what it was before the rework? It was made overall quicker with the rework, but now that we have old q back and thus the mid air combo, having the quickened leap makes the combo feel clunkier than it used to. By increasing his leap timer to what it was pre-rework it would make his mid air combo smoother- while giving very slightly more time to react for ADC's, its a win-win for both parties.
Has "clunky" become the word to use in order to get what you want? How does quicker make things clunkier?
: PBE update for tomorrow (2/7) Tomorrow you're going to see a number of bug fixes and tweaks flowing in for Rengar. Here's the list: >**Balance Tuning:** >Q - >Buff duration for on-next-hit:: 5 >>> 3 W - >Empowered W base damage increased to 60 (to match base W) R- >Enemy champions near the closest enemy who can sense Rengar are also alerted of Rengar's presence > Armor shred on ult 10/14/18 >>> 12/18/24 > >**Tweaks and Bug fixes:** > W animation no longer interrupts attack animations > > Q no longer has old Q's range indicator > Tiamat active now plays Q's animation (complete with particles) if used in combination with Q (plays normal attack animation otherwise). > > Ult no longer crits targets Rengar attacks in melee range (without leaping) and now properly applies the bonus damage and shred. **Thoughts** I was thinking of "solving" triple Q by making the empowered Q buff fall off when the Passive timer does. A number of you suggested that it would feel better and not be all that abusive if we just reduced the amount of time he can hold the Q after casting it. Seemed like a good middle ground. We'll see how it plays out. Ran some numbers on comparative shreds and the R shred felt low, especially late game. Bumping it up as I want to encourage jumping to closest. This could be risky and may need to revert once we do a more complete damage analysis The overall goal of reducing range at which enemies sense Rengar with the updated ult was to allow him to better dodge wards and pick off solo targets. The intended counterplay in a grouped up situation is that the person he's stalking's allies can still pickup on the fact that Rengar is coming and move in to help out. As such, trying out a mechanic where the closest target (the one with the eyes above them) adds "Rengar sense"( the screen tint everyone gets when in the reveal range) to allies in a circle around them. Hope is that this mechanic makes it easier for a Braum who's chilling within a screen of his ADC to realize they're getting hunted and move in to help, while still preserving the ult's ability to skirt around enemy vision. People said my tiamat implementation could be better so I tried again. Please tell me if it's finally working the way you expect. FINALLY - Thank you to the people who sent me Rengar's old bonetooth icons <3 I tested them internally and decided NOT to swap them with what's on live. Why? Given how small they are, the black background makes them pretty hard to read. At a glance, it was much more difficult to tell how many Bonetooth stacks you had. Thanks for the all the feedback and help. Iteration continues. Does anyone have any strong feelings for or against Mecha Rengar's new Q animation?
Hey Jinxylord, can you allow Rengar to get 5 bonetooth stacks on Twisted Treeline? Currently he can only get 3, which makes him non-competitive in 3s. Riot has already implemented getting bounty hunter rune stacks from altars and it would help Rengar as well.
: Rengar Changes Feedback Thread
Things "Feeling strong" as I keep hearing people say, doesn't mean much on the PBE. I jump into games with 9 bronze and get 20 kills on basically any champ. Half of the players don't even speak english. Every champ feels strong on PBE because everyone is so much worse. Ratio on Q should go up, it use to be 1 - 1.2 TAD at rank 5, especially if we don't get any damage from our ult. I agree that AP Rengar shouldn't be helped in any way. I don't think the W ratio should go down, even if it wouldn't affect core Rengar, but he also shouldn't have any AP ratios else where. On live, where people have half a brain to build Ninja Tabi will reduce our Q's damage by 10%. 30% if critGar and they also go Randuins.
: Is this a real suggest? Or maybe you're trolling? And its Riot, not Rito. At least when you request something and especially when its a troll suggestion be polite.
: Rengar Changes Feedback Thread
@Rito JinxyLord @RiotAugust, please consider these: 1. Reduce the delay from Rengar's ult activation to 1 second. The purpose of the delay was to prevent him from escaping with stealth. With camouflage you no longer need this debilitation. 2. Reduce the Q duration to 4 seconds or Reduce the duration of the Q proc to the CD of the ability (Make cooldown timer start on ability cast, not hit. If the cooldown refreshes you lose the Q proc and are immediately able to recast Q. If the Q proc is used then the CD of the ability is the full duration) Ex: Cd of Q is 4 seconds, if you cast Q you have 4 seconds to get your auto off. If you dont get your auto off in 4 seconds, the ability is immediately refreshed. If you Q and auto after a 2 second delay, your Q goes on a full 4 sec cooldown. This will fix a lot of ferocity generation and Q interaction problems 3. Allow Rengar to gain bonetooth stacks from capturing altars on Twisted Treeline (Like bounty hunter rune stacks) so he can get all 5.
: 1/26 PBE changes (In honor of Monster Hunter: Rengar) > > P - > Fixed a bug where the %AP boost on bonetooth wasn't working > > Q - > Empowered Q now consumes ferocity on cast (should fix a number of bugs and feel issues) > > W - > AP Ratio:: .8 >>> .7 > > R - > Closest enemy leap bonus:: gain 4 Ferocity >>> gain 3 Ferocity and shred the target's armor by 10/14/18 for 4 seconds. > > Cool Stuff - > Tiamat now uses the Q animation > Casting Q before you leap will now cause the leap to use Q animation > >We're looking into bonetooth VO spam. No updates as of yet. **Context:** Turns out bonetooth wasn't amping AP. Now it does. This terrifies me. AP Rengar had already been doing well thanks to the E ratio and Q lichbane synergy. I nerfed W AP ratio to compensate. Still worried that AP Rango may not be different enough from AD and will be "just better" if we make it viable. Will continue to validate. Full ferocity on ult opened up some cool plays, but due to the timing of the ferocity gain (start of leap) it was messing with Rengar's ability to combo. If he wanted to cast something in air (say Bola Strike) he's be forced to empower it. Hope is that by reducing the gain to 3 it will offer more reaction time for opponents to flash while at the same time opening up a lot of creative combos that will make Rengar feel better as well (air skill into empowered skill). Still curious if ferocity is a good direction for the R. Iteration continues. Added an armor shred to the leap on closest bonus because we feel it is important that it empower him MORE vs. the guy he leaps on (was seeing instances of him leaping to a random tank to get the ferocity and then flashing on the ADC to murder them). Lethality Rengar has been suffering in our tests since the removal of the crit/bonus damage so a shred seemed like a good middle ground to help him out. The damage isn't upfront, so he can be flashed, but his followup damage will be much stronger (due to how flat shreds/lethality synergize with themselves). Like full ferocity, this may be the wrong direction, will continue to explore and validate (feedback is appreciated). Also noticed that people liked the old Tiamat and Q leap animations so we hooked up new ones with the assets we have. Did we get it right? Particles look weird on Q leap right now, but if the direction is good, those can be cleaned up in the future.
With this implementation of ferocity generation on ult, I feel like at this point you should go back to the 5 ferocity system, with the 5 ferocity generation ultimate. The whole purpose of the decaying 4 ferocity system was to not have an empowered ability queued with your ultimate. I like the cool new reward ideas you're having with Ult tho. Pretty interesting, keep it up.
: **As per usual, thanks for the daily update (wont have another one until next monday rip)** --- > Q - Empowered Q now consumes ferocity on cast (should fix a number of bugs and feel issues) Thank you so much for this. Rengar should feel better to play now, instead of randomly getting Q canceled mid-leap by another ability or run out of combat. > W - AP Ratio:: .8 >>> .7 This is OK regarding the adaptive passive, and the new AP scaling on E. However, a whole rotation still has **2.0 AP scaling** (using 2 Ws and 1 E), and on top of that, base damages and items (Ludens, Lich Bane). To be quite honest, E doesnt need an AP scaling. For now you can try **reverting the AP scaling on E** and **revert this W change,** and with this new adaptive Bonetooth, there will be power amp, and AP Rengar isnt that bad anymore. > R - Closest enemy leap bonus:: gain 4 Ferocity >>> gain 3 Ferocity and shred the target's armor by 10/14/18 for 4 seconds. - This is still weird. The problems with ferocity gain at start of combat is mentioned in my other comment. Basically the **burst is still frontloaded,** while leaving Rengar with not much to do after that. This leaves rooms for combo, that is quite true, but compared to 4 ferocity on leap, before, Rengar will be stuck with 3 ferocity after the rotation and wait for cooldowns, **now he is stuck with 2,** which sounds objectively worse, because he has to wait for more cooldowns, to get more tools to work around. - The armor reduction is weird too. As of right now, the **crit build Rengar is arguably the strongest build** for him which both provides **significant amount of DPS** (amplified with 101% Attack Speed which definitely need to be nerfed) while not lacking in burst department. With this armor reduction, **crit build is going to do more damage than Lethality,** because of it's pure DPS within that 4 seconds. --- **Can we also talk about build diversity for a second?** - The fact that now Q as an auto attack is back makes **Rengar prime to crit build,** amplified with the insane amount of bonus attack speed on empowered Q. **No adc but Tristana,** which is gated by the very high cooldown and inability to get that cooldown low through her items, can get that **significant amount of attack speed steroid** on their kit. Even the likes of Twitch, Xayah and Draven has maximum of 50% bonus attack speed at rank 5 of their ability, which is what Rengar gets at level 1. What this also means is that Rengar can be the new **"melee adc"** replacing Master Yi, Tryndamere and Yasuo, from this pure built in attack speed. Not to mention the 1.1 TAD ratio on Q allows Rengar able to bypass the gray area of building IE and Statikk Shiv. - This is really bad because there would be **no point of building pure lethality items for Rengar,** just because **Duskblade + Crit items will outclass any other build Rengar gets in the long run while maintaining high burst.** At the same time, Lethality items, which is intended for the AD assassin like him, is not preferred in the full build (outside of Duskblade and maybe Youmuus). - There is a couple of solution for this issue if we're keeping Q as an auto ability. **Nerfing the attack speed is definitely obvious.** Something like 20% up to 50% based on level. At the same time, make Q deal bonus damage on auto attacks (Jax W) that **scales with bonus AD.** This will clearly show the weakness of crit build while increasing the value of lethality builds. If the player wants to abuse that midgame ad assassin lethality dream spike on Rengar, he or she is able to do so. While using the crit build, the player is forced to sacrifice the midgame spike for lategame melee adc fantasy. If possible, make the attack speed gained from empowered Q, also **scales with Attack Speed** so that Rengar doesnt completely lose with this Q change. If this is still seems to be super strong, **make Q unable to crit or crit does less damage such as 80%** is one more option. --- **Next off is AP build.** - I really love how you guys are making AP build a thing. But the fact that **adding more scalings will not solve any problem.** Heck, AP Rengar before rework was in fine shape. It was a very decent off meta choice and cheesy that actually works, sacrificing early game for a kamikaze nuke lategame. It is appearing less often now, because the main ability that does damage, is also the main ability for Rengar's survival, instead of a random AR/MR buff it was. This, in my opinion, is ok. Going AP Rengar now is sacrificing surviving ability for AoE nuke, which was defined in past AP Rengar gameplay. **This survival ability however is not obsolete,** as players also have access to Stopwatch, Zhonyas and Banshees, as well as Health from items like Liandries, and sometimes, even Magic Resist from Abyssal Mask. - As of right now, there is a **0.7 AP ratio on W, and a 0.6AP ratio on E.** As said above, considering a full AP combo rotation, the abilities used is leap -> Q -> W -> E -> W, which allows 2 instances of W and 1 instance of E, which are abilities with AP scaling, adds total to an amount of **2.0 total AP scaling in almost in instant, not counting base damages, damage from items, Lich Bane and Q, and more bonus AP from Bonetooth Necklace.** The fact that **most of this damage is an AoE,** and nearly impossible to dodge is ridiculous. Also, with that E base damage and 0.6 scaling, up to a certain AP point, **you get an ability that does more damage than W, through scaling with AP, AND does physical damage.** As you said, **"Not good if it's just an arms race for which build one-shots better."** because this one clearly wins in multi one-shot department, while being versatile in damage type. - There are 2 ways to stop this from happening. One of them is mentioned above, aka **remove E scaling and make W scales 0.8.** This way the issue of random ranged AD chunking ability is removed, and the damage is counterable with MR stacking. Also Rengar is tied to the title of kamikaze nuke, while having **better damage than before rework, thanks to more AP from Bonetooth Necklace.** The other solution is to **reduce W scaling even further (to 0.65 or 0.6), reduces E scaling to 0.5 and makes E damage adaptive.** This reduces the amount of total AP scaling in an AP Rengar rotation down to **1.7 or 1.8,** which is a very fair and reasonable damage not including other damages (base, item damages and bonus AP). --- **At the same time, let's talk Bruiser build.** - Bruiser build is actually on the **stronger side** of the spectrum **comparing to the Lethality build.** The base AD is great now to get Triforce, which is a very good change. With Titanic Hydra and Sterak's Gage however, that is some insane damage gain. At the same time, there is a 1.1 total AD scaling on Q which amplifies that even further. **And we also have a problem of that much AD, going towards a more DPS playstyle, through the Attack Speed steroid from empowered Q.** Not to mention, W is amazing on bruiser as a tool compared to other less bulky builds. Essentially, bruiser Rengar is unburstable and bulky with W. **Sterak's Gage and the amount of health gained from the build naturally, and is able to deal significant amount of DPS though total AD scaling, on Q and Attack Speed steroid on empowered Q.** The fix to this is the same as the fix to crit build. **Reducing Attack Speed from empowered Q, and make it scale with level, and Attack Speed (gained some from Triforce), make Q scales with bonus attack damage, instead of total attack damage, so it won't match the Lethality build in both Burst and DPS.** If you got it to here, thanks for reading. I am simply just a Rengar Main wanting to bring justice to the diversity of Rengar.
Spending 3 hours writing a post doesn't mean shit if you don't know anything about old Rengar
: Rengar Changes Feedback Thread
I find it hilarious that all these "Rengar Mains" that clearly haven't played Rengar before the last rework are complaining about Rengar's Q being overpowered. 50-101% atk spd is old news, we had that before. We also had a 20% total ad bonus with that atk spd bonus. Regular Q had a 1.2TAD scale lvl 5 as well. Pls gtfo of this thread if you have zero knowledge, your feedback is cancer. https://gyazo.com/3e3d4fd024d38840daebbf3feb1ec0ad
: it's 35% now
Shouldn't it be 36% based on the formula?
: Rengar Changes Feedback Thread
Hey Riot, Some feedback: 1. I believe on the old Rengar your leap would place you 0 units away from the target not 50, can you fix that? It makes jumping over walls more reliable where if they are within 50 units of the wall Rengar wont leap over. 2. Can you make the grace period of unseen predator .5 seconds? 3. Please place the leap grace period for Rengar's Ult, I've accidentally E'd right before leaping and it just fizzles immediately 4. Can we take out the cast time of mid air Bola? The whole purpose of it was to prevent max ferocity Bolas being guaranteed, but its unlikely to get max ferocity and ult and reach an opponent within 6 seconds 5. Allow activating Q to add ferocity (to build ferocity without having to hit things with Q) 6. Remove the delay from Rengar's ult activation or shorten it to 1 second. The purpose of the delay was to prevent him from escaping with stealth. With camouflage you no longer need this debilitation. 7. Reduce the duration of the Q proc to the CD of the ability (Make cooldown timer start on ability cast, not ability hit. If the cooldown refreshes you lose the Q proc and are immediately able to recast Q. If the Q proc is used then the CD of the ability is the full duration) Ex: Cd of Q is 2.4 seconds, if you cast Q you have 2.4 seconds to get your auto off. If you dont get your auto off in 2.4 seconds, the ability is immediately refreshed. If you Q and auto after a 2 second delay, your Q goes on a full 2.4 sec cooldown. **This will fix a lot of ferocity generation and Q interaction problems** 8. Allow Rengar to gain bonetooth stacks from capturing altars on Twisted Treeline so he can get all 5. Thanks for all your hard work.
Rioter Comments
: **This skin have potential to be really good, but its just struggling a little bit, I would really like to see these issues being worked on and fixed. ** * **Make him do transform animation when entering the game for the first time** _Just like in the recall when Rengar comes to the fountain he is transformed from a car to a Rengar again, this will be awesome if it could be added also to the first time entering the game. _ * **Keep blue effects on his body and not only by using his W** _When you use W, blue shiny colors around his body would appear for a half of a second, he would look a lot better by keeping those blue colors permanently._ https://image.prntscr.com/image/aTWZ-mlrRUS_RcCwk86dQQ.png https://image.prntscr.com/image/pfz5OhOyRWyveH1dnArLKQ.jpg * ** Adjust his right hand blade in Rengar walking animation.** _Blade is really off with his hand during his walk animation. Making it a little bit to the left so it can be parallel by his arm shown by the gif bellow_ https://media.giphy.com/media/l378kGd6om6wo8xA4/giphy.gif * ** Make his right shoulder similiar in color/brightness to his left one ** _ This issue is only on his base color since i didn't noticed on chromas, his right shoulder is a lot more brighter than his left one with the trophies on it, he would look a lot better if the brightness and colors of the right could be tuned down a little bit to match the left shoulder. _ * ** Tweak his base color ** _Since you want to keep with the current color scheme on his base, tweak the armor to a little bit more darker/saturated.Skin color right now on his base really doesn't make me feel that I payed for it 1350rp just because of the color, effects are great, but color on his base is really off with the blue effects that are gorgeous. _ I did it in photoshop and imo he looks way better. Before https://image.prntscr.com/image/ztqw7pWvRJKQ7mpIwn5uaQ.jpg After https://image.prntscr.com/image/x_bylJtnRAyUDw_kreyk3g.jpg * ** Mecha Rengar summoner icon ** _This one doesn't have nothing to do with the Rengar skin by itself, but I would be happy if he could receive summoner icon of the skin line :)_ **These was my thoughts about what would be good to do on Mecha Rengar, if you guys do at least half of these things that I suggested I will be so much happy with the skin and will buy him as soon as he comes to live servers. Currently he is not worth of a buy (in my opinion) because he is lacking some of the things that I mentioned above.**
I'm so glad someone agrees with me on the blade being weirdly aligned when he runs. Its really distracting to me
: Just leaving some opinions on what bothers me with this skin, So I'm leaving my feedback beneath. I'd just like to swap the 3vs3 Chroma and the Normal chroma around a little. It feels like they got messed up in the process? - The Purple doesn't really match-up the colorscheme of the previous skins in a cohesive way. (E.g. Victorious Morgana, Elise and Maokai all got this key-elements in blue - and here comes graves with purple?). The Blue version would fit the VFX better as well. - Swap the 3v3 and ''non-chroma'' version around. Purple for me relates to Twisted Treeline's colorscheme in a better way, which in my opinion is more related to darkness and therefor the mystique elements of purple. The Blue colorway would be better to make the skinline more cohesive, as mentioned above. Maybe I'm a little bit biased due to living in a nordic monarchy myself, and therefore feel like red and blue is a better way to represent ''royality'' and ''victoriousness'' the skins are supposed to envision. - The Purple tint of the skin is kinda strong, I'd tint it down a little. - The Blue one I'd up the contrast a little, more sapphire-like than this darker marine.
I love how all the people that want the 3v3 chroma but dont play 3v3 are begging to get it switched. Lmao, leave it the way it is, theres no actual logical argument for a color to go with a queue. Its clearly them just wanting the chroma but not wanting to play 3s
: [CLOSED] PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Mecha Rengar!
Positives: 1. Very cool overall 2. Sound effects are satisfying 3. Particles effects are nice Negatives: 1. One of the biggest things I've noticed about the skin, and I hope that you guys at riot do something, but some of the auto attack animations just do not make sense with the weapons the skin has. If you look at the skin teaser, Rengar kills khazix with a light pat on the back, doesn't even look like the blade hit him. 2. Also the skin might look a little better with dread like physics models going down his back but not obscuring his jet? His backside just looks empty 3. His death animation is the same as his base skins, can you give him a new death animation? (Even though I'd never see it anyway) 4. When Rengar is moving, his blade looks awkwardly limp to the side, can you align it with his arm? https://gyazo.com/afba99bed570244a6c67996c8982204c 5. Theres a jet on his back, but it doesnt seem like its ever used for anything. Could use it for leaping or while ulting? Request: Make attack animations make sense with his new weapons, or change weapons? Bugs: I don't know if its skin specific but currently his grey health bar doesn't appear at all when taking damage


Level 34 (PBE)
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