: Quinn PBE Feedback Thread
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=PE1LJTOM,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-28T18:18:29.343+0000) > * To all the players upset that they cannot turn into Valor and fight anymore, I am sorry that that was so important to you as far as playing the champion goes, but that aspect of these changes is just not going to change. Truly, I'm very sorry if that ruins the champion for you, but I'd prefer to be forthcoming about the fact that it's not going to change than leave you hanging waiting for an answer forever. I hope you can find enjoyment eventually in this new version of the champion, or that there is another champion out there that can give you a similar feeling to the previous version of Quinn, but if not, I understand. I'm done. I hope your game dies within a year. Any company that turns their back on the community this hard because they would rather remove mechanics than try to balance them properly deserves to go down. We've told you what we want and voted on what should happen with up-votes, but you disregard it. Why am I surprised though, the only time you listen to the community is when you're getting bad press. This change is nothing but the removal of a "mechanically problematic" (AKA too lazy to balance anything but numbers) character that's simply too unpopular to have a large scale community backlash. Fuck you for taking away one of the only champions I can still have fun with after playing this game for 5 years. I can't believe I actually thought you were a good company back then. Boy how things change.
: Quinn PBE Feedback Thread
After playing new Quinn and Valor here are my thoughts. Pros: - I do more damage because of more procs - Flying around the map is fun at level 16 - Valor carrying Quinn makes it look like they are working together more - Mobility allows for decent ganks early game Cons: - The "Valor" part of the team is gone, before he felt like just as much a champion as Quinn, now he is just a utility to help her. Hes a gateway that allows her to do more damage rather than helping out himself. - Play-making is near nonexistent now. You can't overcome another marksman that is just "stronger". No blind, no melee chasing, no assassination. All of your skills have been washed down to letting you apply more damage, leaving Q&V to easily be taken out by anyone that simply out-damages them. The only thing left is your ult that you can use to set up ganks, but it doesn't help as much late game (where other marksmen will take you out) - R feels stiff and not fluid. Stopping to ult feels like chore most of the time. While the ult tries to encourage frequent use, I often questioned whether i wanted to bother leaving my ult to take a creep camp or something, because I didn't want to wait to go back into my ult (or pay the mana early game). - The slow and cast time on R make it near useless for chasing (provided you were already part of the fight). After casting it I sometimes just gave up my chase because the other character was already gone or out of site. When I did continue I often got ganked because it took to long to ult and also catch up. Due to not having any CC (or gap closers like the one she use to have) I still managed to lose the chase because once I got to them I couldn't keep up or finish them off. - R is useless for running away aside from split pushing, but can still be useless for that too at times depending on the situation. - Creeps are your worst nightmare now. They block Q (which is important since it applies your passive. Your E doesn't prevent this since you bounce back, therefore in a wave of creeps you lose a lot of damage (since a lot of your damage is reliant on Q now) Since you can't ult and go melee anymore, creeps have just become a huge problem for Q&V. - R is the only skill left that isn't just "use this one them to do more damage", and I believe is is useless for most situations. This makes her a stale character, _especially _ before 6. - Deaths Dance (new item) prevents you from ulting until the DoT is done, making the wait even longer. Comments: It doesn't feel like the same character. Being extremely mobile with a toggle-able still is a neat idea, but it belongs on someone else. Quinn should remain how she is and not be grouped in with every other marksman just because shes ranged. She has a unique role right now and breaking it is unnecessary and unwanted. Why is Kindred allowed to be a ranged assassin who can jungle or lane, but Quinn is being forced down a specific lane? There iss nothing wrong with a mechanically strong character with versatility and a fun play-style. If you want another strong ADC for the pros to play with then buff a different character or make a new one. You're re-purposing a character that many people find dear into something nobody wanted. Some people might "accept" the changes, but nobody was asking you to turn a unique assassin character into a boring (use all your skills on them and hope they die) DPS. Make changes to them if you want, but don't strip **THEM** of their identity as a champion. Sure They might look like they work together a bit more now, but being a team doesn't mean you always stay next to each other. That's the essence of a tag-team. Quin and Valor are scouts that are a team because they help each other out by using their strengths to take down an enemy. Valor marks enemies for Quinn and swoops down to assassinate and take out enemies when they need to chase and annihilate. The point isn't they are constantly with each other, its that they make up for each others weaknesses! Please stop ignoring the criticism, the entire front page of "discussion mode" is covered in negative feedback about these drastic changes. These posts are the most up-voted posts, and the red posts about putting in these changes are the most down-voted. THE COMMUNITY IS SPEAKING TO YOU. Keep Quinn and Valor as the champions **THEY** are.
: you know i am honestly surprised at the amount of people who dont like quinn rework. i mean i assume its because they changed her identity but this rework was made to make all adc bring something unique to the table and a reason to pick them. everyone got shifted to a role and quinn is no exception. her ult is now a literal nocturn ulti WITH NO LIMIT (without the blind ofcourse) with a 3-2 cast time and like 3 sec cooldown. that is BADASS no one is can escape from the bird and unless the map is littered with wards she can gank like no other adc can. disregarding some issues with the power of her passive/Q and bug fixes with R interacting with Vault i feel this will definitely make quinn more powerful than she was before. NEVER underestimate the power of her new mobility. its what made sivir one of the best adc this season in pro play and if this goes through will make her better for it imo.
> [{quoted}](name=daydreamer95,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=PE1LJTOM,comment-id=0114,timestamp=2015-10-30T19:47:37.897+0000) > > you know i am honestly surprised at the amount of people who dont like quinn rework. i mean i assume its because they changed her identity but this rework was made to make all adc bring something unique to the table and a reason to pick them. everyone got shifted to a role and quinn is no exception. her ult is now a literal nocturn ulti WITH NO LIMIT (without the blind ofcourse) with a 3-2 cast time and like 3 sec cooldown. that is BADASS no one is can escape from the bird and unless the map is littered with wards she can gank like no other adc can. disregarding some issues with the power of her passive/Q and bug fixes with R interacting with Vault i feel this will definitely make quinn more powerful than she was before. > > NEVER underestimate the power of her new mobility. its what made sivir one of the best adc this season in pro play and if this goes through will make her better for it imo. Not everyone cares about their character being "top tier" Some people like to have fun. I don't care if I win every game. I don't care if I get the best score or the top damage. I don't care if the pros play them. I love Quinn and Valor because of how they play. They're taking away our fun play-style and expecting us to be satisfied with "well you do damage now". I hate being tied down to a specified role they give to me, and Quinn and Valor gave me the chance to be a unique, cool, versatile fighting machine. That's being taken away from me and it hurts. I don't play league for money. I don't care if my character does the most damage in the game. I care that they are fun to play. Video games are suppose to be fun before all else. I think Riot, including Riot Repetoir, has forgotten that.
: Quinn PBE Feedback Thread
**Sometimes Red posts can be a bit confusing. So I've gone ahead and written up a translation of the latest update to the main post (since its pretty long)** > [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=PE1LJTOM,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-28T18:18:29.343+0000) > I've been spending that last several hours taking in everyone's thoughts on the changes. I fully understand that many of you are unhappy, mainly with the blind removal, but also with the R changes. "We've seen all of your negative feedback about our changes" > One question that I've seen pretty regularly is why I would remove Quinn's identity, and I wanted to address that particular concern. I believe this concern results from the fact that various players have different visions for what Quinn's identity is, as she is pulled in many different directions. Depending on the player, she may resonate most strongly as a duelist, an assassin, a splitpusher, a melee fighter, a scout, or something else entirely. "She was versatile, we aim to change that" >In choosing where we wanted Quinn to shine, we took these things into consideration, and the conclusion we came to was that she would be the most interesting, unique marksman possible if she had map presence like no other marksman (or potentially no other champion) in the game. She was not going to be the best assassin, the best duelist, or the best splitpusher. There was just no way. Most of the players that wanted that version of Quinn to remain were just asking for buffs for their main, and there wasn't really much room to work with there. "Instead of making her versatile, we want her to be an ADC. So f*** off ok? We promise to make her a super unique ADC! You see, with quinn you will have to right click just a bit differently. Make sure you right click the people that get targeted! Surely quinn will now be played every game, she won't just be another boring ADC that no one will play because vayne and jinx exist (btw we're buffing vayne again but its k LOL)" > I understand the shock value that comes with changes like these, but I also know that no one here has even played the changes yet, so this is emotional feedback at this point. "Even though we took away a huge clutch move and half of her kit, your all just being emotional! Wouldn't you rather quinn be a top tier right clicker instead of a fun character to play? All you noobs need to go watch some streams or pro players to get some sense beat into you. Who cares about how fun she is as long as she can do more damage!" >I know that no one was necessarily asking for these specific changes, but I do think that there is something about Quinn players that they want a compelling, unique play experience. For all the various things that Quinn meant to Quinn players, they all seemed to value that she was a unique experience to them that they could not get elsewhere. I intend to keep that element of uniqueness true of this version of Quinn as well. I won't promise you that she's going to have her blind back, or that I will make changes for every request I get here, but I do plan to deliver on a truly unique play style that no other champion has, and I would love feedback that helped us arrive at that end. "We know you want a fun character, but that's just not going to happen k? I'VE already decided what I want her to be. We're not revoking our changes no matter how much the entire quinn playerbase wants it. So just bend over k? Go ahead and keep leaving feedback that I will dismiss as emotional or 'problematic' so you feel like you actually have a voice" > I'm not asking anyone to act like they like something they don't, but I am asking that your feedback be aimed at helping us arrive at the best possible end product, as that is the goal here. Going into her first day of PBE, we are aiming for her to be a marksman that excels at map presence over all others out there. If you feel like she's not living up to that, it would help me greatly to let me know that she isn't, and why. "You can go ahead and keep complaining about us ruining your favorite champion, but I really don't care ok. I want you to bug test my new vision of quinn instead. Tell me if you don't feel like shes living up to MY vision while playing her, I'm gonna go get wasted and maybe buff vayne some more. > Anyway, it's important to me that everyone knows their feedback is not falling on deaf ears, because it's not. I'm looking forward to her first day of PBE tomorrow. "Oh btw ilu bby, have fun playing my new character" {{champion:133}} RIP
: > What made you guys decide to make Valor only fly above quinn basically carrying her around the map, instead of replacing her for a bit and getting to fly freely? We thought this was truer to the spirit of the ability (Tag Team), as well as a better explanation for why they combo doesn't attack during this time. > I'm excited for the changes but I fear that with the loss of blind and any significant dmg on her ult she will loose what little power she had. That's an understandable concern (and a concern that a lot of other players seem to share), but we are confident we can make this character very powerful. If the numbers aren't right on the first pass, we'll get them there.
Do you even know what "tag-team" means? It means your partner gets tagged in and fights, then they tag you back in, etc. Its a switch, you switch out who's fighting. How is Valor carrying Quinn a tag team?
: Quinn PBE Feedback Thread
Why take a fun assassin character that was unique and fun to play and just throw her into the bin with the other boring ADCs? Regardless of whether or not she "works" better now, you've stripped a character of everything that made her fun. You've removed her clutch blind and her entire assassination kit. Just take her existing kit and buff it to let her match up better at bot lane. Its not that hard. My suggestion is to slightly improve her attack range and make it so that she can't be attacked or something while jumping (melee champions like Renekton can currently stun Quinn when she dashes to them). Two easy changes could make her a lot better. But no, instead you decide to make "safe" changes to her. Changes you know won't make her OP because of her mechanics. Now she can't be OP because she has the same mechanics of every other ADC. Changes like this just make the game boring and unfun. This game is starting to get beyond repair Riot. I've been playing since open beta and this game has done nothing but go downhill since season 1. If these changes go through I'm quitting. Regardless of whether or not many others will because of this (since shes not a very popular character), a lot of people are going to start quitting if you make unfun, braindead changes like this to more popular characters. Screw you for taking away one of the last remaining characters I had a blast playing. {{champion:133}} RIP

Bakkingamu

Level 30 (PBE)
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