: Playing on PBE is extremely difficult.
idk if its just about they type of people in the queue, or I've been lucky, but I've not had any problems with Ascension. Only seen one WW ban, and other than that the only time people dodge is because of the bug where you cant ban champions (which, btw, is not a good reason to dodge. The game will still start, just deal with it.) There really aren't any lobby trolls. In game trolls, sure, but thats always true of game modes. I've not even seen anyone dodge because someone else gets WW first. Games are short, so we just play it out and try next time. I know a good portion of the people who play the game modes regularly, and while some of them can be insufferable butts sometimes, it really is a pretty good group of players. You should come join us :)
: Banning New and Reworked Champions
It's already a feature on the alpha client. I mean, you cant ban ANY champs, but it has the same effect. Kappa
: 950k RP/IP was a one time thing around December 2015 in order to test the Hextech Crafting system.Nobody from after that has it; it was a one time thing.
Oh. Interesting. I've never met anyone who didn't have it, so I thought it was the new standard.
: You have more than 9 runes of the same type and have thus reached the cap of how many runes one can own. This is the result of buying the old Rune Bundle more than once (even though it was explicitly stated not to buy it more than once on multiple occasions). In this case, if you want the other runes, you will have to contact [Riot support](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us) and ask that they reset your runes. This will remove *all* your runes. You will *not* receive a refund. Use the live account your PBE account is linked to, then select PBE as your region (request type: I am having technical issues).
You have this ready to copy paste, dont you?...
: Everyone got kicked.
Interesting. Almost certainly server side, then. Maybe someone at Riot leaned on the reset button :P I wonder if it happened to everyone playing on PBE at that moment, or just your game (which would be pretty weird).
: Mini Map Problem
Are you sure minimap movement wasnt just turned off? In game open the options menu, under Interface, scroll down to the Minimap section, and make sure 'Allow Minimap Movement' is checked.
: Also it says it refils RP i dont see it saying IP.
Edit: Nevermind, I was wrong. Not up to date on my info, sorry :)
: Game just disappeared?
Any idea if the other players experienced the issue as well? Can you find the game in your match history? I dont know how the game keeps track of matches, but I suppose its possible that the issue is user facing, and somehow your client just lost track of the match. Otherwise, if everyone was kicked out of the game, it was likely a weird server issue on Riots end. Hard to say. Feels kinda like a "shit happens" situation, but if it happens again be sure to report it. Since that would be a major problem they need to look into.
: Shop not working?
Had this problem once the other day, but seems to be working fine now.
: PBE Bug Splat
Without anymore info, I would just suggest a reinstall. For PBE its not so bad. Save a copy of the config folder, then delete the whole PBE folder. Redownload from the links at the top of these boards, then open and patch. After that, copy the config folder back into the PBE folder (replace if there is an existing config folder). That way you shouldnt have to redo your settings, which for me is always the annoying part of reinstalling.
: Can't accept Matches
(Sorry to double post, just wanted to make sure this got noticed, without making a whole new thread) It's happened at least 4 more times since my first comment, and I think I've noticed a pattern in how/when this happens. So far, it always happens after having previously accepted a queue, that then either never started, or someone dodged in champ select. So basically, you've clicked accept before, and then it wont let you click it a second time. In all cases, after being returned to the lobby (for failure/inability to accept) and restarting queue, the cycle repeats (if you accept a queue, and the game doesnt start, you will experience the problem again). I'm currently trying to test if being tabbed out of the client makes a difference, and whether or not simply restarting the queue manually prevents the problem.
: Can't accept Matches
I've had it 3 times now (not in a row). The accept button is just greyed out.
: An Update on Chromas
> individual chromas will be available for **2000 IP** each during the sale periods. Hopefully a typo.
: > [{quoted}](name=Whistlesticks,realm=PBE,application-id=A4D2003433C8FCD715185A7264A9CC6FDFAD7FEF,discussion-id=WUmMe04L,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-15T09:56:59.394+0000) > > I can't remember the specifics, but there is a limit to how many runes you can own. I believe the only way to fix this is to contact support and have them remove/reset your runes. Yea I've submitted a ticket, hopefully it helps :) thanks for the help, just curious if there was something I can do myself for a quick fix
The only way I can think of that might work would be to refund some of the rune purchases. But since you can only refund 3 times (which is totally stupid for PBE, btw), its probably not going to totally solve the problem.
: idk if this will help you but try pressing Enter after typing the name of your rune page.
Holy shit how have I never tried/known about this? It totally works, even though the other way of saving it still doesn't, so, thank you!
Rioter Comments
: This has gone on for weeks, bought all rune types separately (9x seals of hp, armor, etc) and a few just once at a time for all rune types and then see if one would register in rune page. Currently I have some weird bug, i can keep stacking on runes that I have already bought previously using same method (9x each or 3 quints). For example I have 43 flat armor seals.
I can't remember the specifics, but there is a limit to how many runes you can own. I believe the only way to fix this is to contact support and have them remove/reset your runes.
: taric pbe
Any time a champ gets reworked, PBE eventual gets burned out on them, and just starts banning them out of frustration. But by the time that happens, we've already tested them a whole lot more than Riot ever could themselves. And even when it does, its not like they NEVER get played, so there is still plenty of testing being done. If it was really a problem, and Rito needed more data, they could probably make the champ in question un-bannable.
: This is for Riot Xypherous (Not Hate!)
My main problem with the shielding item is, whats to prevent AP assassins from taking it and abusing it like they did/do Zhonya's? For someone like Leblanc, or Fizz, being able to move (or more accurately move-block) out of danger could be preferable to Zhonya's. If the shield is enough to save them in tight situations, the freedom of mobility could take priority over the arguably superior defense of Zhonya's active. I like that it scales with mana, to reduce value on champs like Kat, and Akali. But for mana users, I think the AP scaling could be changed (either removed, or replaced) so as to limit its synergy with the rest of their desired build. I'm not sure how to balance this along with all the other considerations you've already put into the item, however. The only thing I can think is to give it an armor ratio... Which feels awkward (low value if this is the only armor you buy, potentially super high value for tanky AP champs, shifting its intended niche).
: Inferal Diana Passive
Grabbed some screenshots to compare. Classic - Passive ready: http://imgur.com/WW44jt2 Lunar Goddess - Passive ready: http://imgur.com/FmcnJa9 Both of them are pretty clear, so I didn't get an unready passive example. Dark Valkyrie - Passive not ready: http://imgur.com/OiAXZM8 Dark Valkyrie - Passive ready: http://imgur.com/6zxrcYU In game, this one felt much less clear than the first two. But its not that bad. Infernal - Passive not ready: http://imgur.com/7WiCmfY Infernal - Passive ready: http://imgur.com/BFQ9K7t And as OP mentioned, the effect is quite subtle on the infernal skin. Regardless, I wouldn't say either are really game breaking. It's not a particularly paramount particle, so probably pretty low priority to patch... Okay, thats enough alliteration, sorry.
: Hexakill Feedback
I really like the idea of starting at 3. I remember the first time I tried hexakill recently (since they started the rotation), I actually assumed thats how it started. I ended up leveling the wrong skill first, thinking I would be able to level all 3, and had to live with it. Obviously my own fault, but still annoying. Hexakill is also a good example of why these gamemodes need adjusted surrender timers. And/or EQ options. I'm not actually sure if EQ is available on hexakill, but I know it was on URF, and that was amazing. Really kept games fun and interesting sometimes. I'll check in a bit, but hexakill could be greatly improved if you could EQ (or FF) at 15 mins. Another adjustment they could make is comeback mechanics, like rubberband exp, and inflated passive gold generation, as you mentioned. Currently, once you get behind, it is very unlikely that you come back, since there is SO little gold and EXP to be shared on the map between so many players. It's too easy for the enemy team to just starve you out. They have no reason to do anything but push lanes, so there is almost no chance for the team that is behind to force plays or capitalize on bad ones. The only turret threatening enough to stop a dive is the nexus turret. Its very unlikely to catch anyone out in the jungle (if anything, its more of a risk for the defending team to even get into their own jungle, given the way the blind spots are laid out). And Vilemaw is too easy for one or two people to take that its unlikely you ever get a chance to fight there. Nevermind that a Vilemaw throw isn't nearly as punishing as a Baron throw. All that being said, another part of the problem is that, for some reason, it still feels like it takes a winning team quite a while to finish the game. There is usually a point at which you know the game is over, but, if you keep defending, it can still take several minutes for the game to end. I'm sure its not as long as I imagine it is, but in game its certainly feels longer than I would like it to. The argument of course is to just stop defending, but thats easier said than done. There is usually a few people, like myself, who have no quit in them. I defend to the end, even if I'm silently hoping that end is soon. I also feel like they could probably skip bans all together. I can't think of one single champ that is completely dominant in hexakill. It's team comps. Poke comps, assassin comps, tank comps. Bans in this mode seem almost entirely dependent on the banning players last game. Who they got dominated by, or who was most annoying to deal with. But given the variety I've seen, its fairly unlikely that you will actually face the same champs in consecutive games anyway.
: Store bugged?
Seems to be working fine for me. Does the whole store go black, or just the area with the item (champion, skin, ect) tiles? Can you still see the sidebar and the category tabs? Because if you can, it might just be that the store is taking forever to load the content.
: [League client update] Briefly visiting the PBE for a pre-alpha tech test *Ended Mar 22*
How do we know if our PBE and Live accounts are linked? I'm assuming mine is, but I want to make sure. I'd really like to participate in these tests.
: Just a little thing, the combo will be passive>AA>E>AA>Q>AA. E is an autoattack reset, and also puts a slow onto the enemy, meaning you can E in the middle of the first autoattack to proc them extremely rapidly, and the bonus damage on enemy missing health on Q means you want to put it later in the combo. From my experience playing Quinn, it won't be too difficult at all to pull off that combo.
I forgot about the execute damage, that definitely puts it at the end. I know her current combo is P>AA>E>AA>Q>AA, so I was going with that at first, but for some reason I was thinking that you should Q first since its a ranged ability, and you might as well use it at range... idk. Youre right though, the combo will remain the same. And while technically its fairly easy to pull off, the problem lies in whether or not valor will properly place the mark all 3 times. From my experience playing Quinn, it's entirely possible that sometimes, for no obvious reason, the mark just wont work. I emphasize being able to execute the combo quickly, because I don't think it will be very good if a point of mastery for Quinn is 'I know how slowly to do my combo in order to reliably proc all 3 marks'. In other words, I don't want to be punished for executing the combo too quickly, because the passive couldn't keep up.
: I've heard the thing about Quinn's Harrier AAs being easier to cancel, but I timed them again today and they seem to check out as being as fast as the normal basic attacks. Perhaps it has to do with the animation being different visually or the sound being different on the Harrier attack? Harrier itself is getting some logic changes that haven't been detailed yet, as I stuck to the higher level stuff for today.
I want you to know just how much this reply means to me. I understand how difficult it can be to read and reply to comments from people like me, and the fact the you continue to do so, at 2 in the morning, hours after you are off the clock, is just amazing. Truly, thank you. [Upcoming edit with more on the topic at hand. Just wanted to send this comment as soon as possible so hopefully you see it before the sandman whisks you away] edit: In regards to her AA, I just hope you don't rely on the numbers and say "well, they should be fine", because they definitely aren't fine. Something makes them feel awkward, and that should be addressed. I believe Kalista received some changes to clean up a similar problem (or maybe as a non-conventional nerf/buff), so maybe Quinn could get the same treatment? Keep in mind that its not just about her harrier AA compared to her basic AA, its about her AAs relative to other marksmen in general. If they feel even a bit easier to cancel compared to other marksmen, then that feeling, or more importantly the potential frustration associated with it, is increased considerably given the importance of her landing any given AA. I'll reserve my thoughts on the passive until I get a feel for its changes. For now, my concern is, how difficult will it be to actually proc 3 marks in quick succession? It seems like one of her major combos will be something along the lines of 'passive>AA>Q>AA>E>AA'. If for any reason that cant be reliably executed _quickly_, then there might need to be some changes to her passive. Again, I can't thank you enough for the reply. It has done a lot to maintain my faith in Riot, and obviously in you. And it isn't even about me specifically getting a reply. If you had replied to someone else regarding this topic, I would still be reassured that you are indeed listening. Even if the Quinn changes don't go how I would like, your respect towards us crazy Quinn players will go a long way in softening the blow.
: What specifically about her auto attacks?
I am growing more and more concerned, especially after your end of day update, that you will put in all this work on Quinn, and not do anything to address the biggest problems she faces. All the movement speed in the game wont change the fact that her AAs are too easy to cancel, and that her passive is unreliable. Without fixing these things, Quinn will continue to feel bad, and even be frustrating - Especially for players who aren't as attracted to her theme, and thus less willing to forgive her for her faults - Which will continue to prevent her from seeing significant play. Could you please give us an indication that you are even aware of these issues? The most concerning thing for me is that basically every Quinn thread for the past year has some mention of her bad AAs and/or faulty passive, so the fact that you seem unaware of these problems leads me to believe that you aren't terribly invested in what we are saying about Quinn. And I'm sorry if the opposite is true, and that me saying this is frustrating/disheartening for you to hear, but I find it hard to believe that you could actually be listening to us and not hear us screaming about these things. Some acknowledgement from you would go a long way for us (or at least me) believing in this two-way feedback street, as well as trusting that you will do whats right for Quinn.
: > If we don't like this. And we find it weak. Are you willing to say "we messed up" and find a different avenue of fixing her. There will always be people that don't like changes, so I will likely never get a good read on the portion of people that don't like a change. If it's weak or something's off about it, however, we would address that, yes.
I had typed up a large, zealous rant about Riot not valuing (or at least under-valuing) the opinions of the more passionate players; but given past experience, I'm sure it would have fallen on deaf ears (blind eyes?), so instead I will just say this: **Be cautious of confirmation bias.**
: its not alarmingly bad. its just a bit harder to kite than, say jinx while using pow pow
But Jinx isn't nearly as reliant on landing any given AA like Quinn is. Considering her passive, and short AA range, fucking up an AA can be alarmingly bad for Quinn. As I mentioned in another comment, if anything, Quinns AAs should be harder to cancel than other marksmen, not easier.
: > To be honest, the problems I see here that will make Quinn as a top laner o ADC useless will be: I somehow forgot to mention this in the original post, but I do believe this version of Quinn will be most interesting as a mid-laner, due mostly to the fact that Tag Team is much more interesting from the middle of the map.
I know its probably not relevant at this point, but thoughts on jungle Quinn? It really fits her theme quite well, so I think it's an awesome option for her, but its never really been viable. Now with the loss of her blind, its probably not even possible. Did you guys consider any changes to support jungle Quinn, or would you in the future?
: Go into a custom game and test out intentionally cancelling auto attacks for Quinn and any other 2 marksmen(I think i tested with Ashe and Jinx's minigun). Quinn's auto attacks are notoriously easy to cancel, as easy to cancel as Jinx's rocket launcher. This is a problem for Quinn because with an incredibly low auto attack range that makes kiting and attacking an even more inherently risky ordeal than usual, losing damage that you accidentally cancel yourself is just insulting. The video was something i made a long time ago to emphasize the point.
Not to mention how important it is for her to land AAs in order to pop her passive. If you fail AA when someone has a passive mark on them, you just lost out on a good chunk of your damage. This should never happen accidentally. For this reason, if anything, her AAs should err on the side of being more difficult to cancel than other marksmen. Not easier, as they currently are.
: What specifically about her auto attacks?
Reliability/feel. No longer accidentally canceling them. That kind of thing. [EDIT with more detail] Considering how important her passive is to her kit, and how reliant said passive is on, ya know, actually landing an auto attack, the fact that her AAs were so easily canceled (especially relative to other marksmen) is a a pretty big concern. And has been for us Quinn players for... basically ever. Even though I'm sure a lot of us have gotten used to them, I believe its a big issue for why people dont like her very much. When you get used to the feel of AAs on other ADCs, if you try Quinn, shes going to feel weird (bad) at first. And the problem will only get worse if you intend for even more of her damage to come from her passive (with the added Q mark). If her AAs dont get a QoL improvement, then these changes will only exacerbate her problems. There are countless boards/reddit posts on it, so if you need more detailed info on the problem it shouldnt be too hard to find. It's also worth mentioning that the reliability and responsiveness of her passive is probably just as important here. Quinn will need to be able to pop up to 3 passive marks in quick succession with these changes; and the player needs to feel confident that Valor wont take a break and neglect to mark the enemy in the middle of her combo is she executes it too quickly.
: Did she get her damage back though? her passive has always been buggy as hell. And if her ideal new combo is Q>AA>E>AA with how inconsistent her passive currently is, it's going to take way to long to do that combo, as you'd have to space out and wait to AA or risk not proccing her passive.
Thats definitely my concern. She can barely manage a passive>AA>E>AA combo as it stands. If they hope to add an extra passive mark into that with Q, then they really have to improve the reliability and responsiveness of her passive. As well as her auto attacks. If you accidentally cancel your auto-attack, the combo is still fucked, regardless of how reliable the passive marks are. Basically, the most important thing Quinn needs are _still _ "simple" QoL changes.
: The entire spell.
Given that her ult is just a mobility tool now, do you intend for her to be a roaming assassin ADC? I mean, what else is an ADC going to do with this kind of mobility? Be the first one to arrive to contest a baron? Get back to lane faster to farm? (Kappa) How confident are you that she has enough damage for this? What would you change to support this playstyle, if needed? Along those lines, is her ult available at lvl 1? If not, thoughts on this? I will say that I actually approve of roaming assassin Quinn. It's certainly one of the ways I've enjoyed playing her. I am just concerned at the loss of damage from her ult. ALSO, how effective is tagteam as an escape? Does getting hit knock you out of it, or slash the movement speed bonus? For example, is it possible to flank around the enemy front line with her ult, assassinate a high value target, then ult again to run away with any sort of safety? One last (but important) question: Did you fix her auto-attacks?
: Oh I have no doubt she will be more viable. But I will surly miss the burst of my cheezy bt triforce ghostblade build where I one shot people with valor while typing SQUAK SQUAK in all chat :P
I will miss Valor kills... :(
: I have a question: Tag Team will be available from lv6 or lv1?
Oh, thats a good question. It's kind of low value for a lvl 6 ult (hell, for an ult at all), so giving it to her at lvl 1 would at least bring some value back to it.
: Rip assassquin... You will be missed.
If anything they want to move her more to being an assassin. An ult whos only use is quick movement around the map can only be intended for a roamer. If an ADC is going to roam, they probably want to assassinate (or at least kill in general) someone. She lost a lot of damage from her ult, but she gained it back in her passive/Q. I am a little concerned she wont have enough damage, but thats balance-able. I do believe they want her to be a roaming assassin ADC.
: Quinn PBE Feedback Thread
Did you fix her auto-attacks?
: Confirmed.
Double confirmed. Two games in a row for me, now.
: Miss Fortune feedback thread!
With MF being one of my favorite champs since I started playing, a main for most of my career, and a comfort pick these days, personally, the loss of GW is devastating. I honestly believe it will kill her for me, as I won't be able to play her in the same fashion that caused me to fall in love with her to begin with. Essentially I wont be able to stand my ground and duel anymore - she will be much more kite focused, and that just doesn't fit my style. While I dont agree with it even a small bit, I understand why you are removing GW. Not only from MF, but from the game. Unfortunately I just completely disagree with your opinion on such mechanics (but thats for a different thread and a different day). That said, removing GW from MF nerfs her heavily, and the "compensation" buff is no where near adequate, as already mentioned. For this reason, I feel there is one simple thing that absolutely must change on her W now - The mana cost. As in, it shouldn't have one. I was fine with it costing mana given its added utility, but if it's just going to be a DPS boost, I see no reason for it to cost mana any more. I feel that treating Impure Shots the same way as Tristana's Q, and even Kog'mas W is fair. Auto attack steroids, on medium cooldowns, with essentially no utility. If these are not appropriate comparisons, and the same treatment shouldn't be applied to Impure Shots, I would sure love to hear the reasoning for this.
: Thank you Tas. The scoreboard is bugged for sure. CS and KDA display in the big empty space between portraits and items. We'll fix the other issues as well. To the OP's point, how do you feel about overall sizing and readability of the skill bar? What res and sizing do you use?
I haven't been online much lately, so I've only just recently got a good chance to give the new HUD a thorough inspection. I have quite a bit of feedback regarding sizing and scaling, as well as placement and useability. As soon as PBE's back up I'll hop in a custom game and get some screen shots for ya.
: Bug in mastering page
Your bug report gave me a seizure.
: Champions that are "meh" at everything are really, really boring. I understand loving MF, I do to, but if she's OK at literally everything it's not fun. When she's good, she's unbeatable, and when she's bad, she's unplayable. Harsh weaknesses like low mobility and bad dueling when her steroids are off CD are meant to combat strengths, like potency while those CDs are up or necessitating jumping on her, that I agree she doesn't, at the moment, display. That way, there's a strong reason to pick her. She's the "X" champ, but she's really bad if the enemy jungler is "XYZ" because "Blah." That should work for every champ. (Coming up with an example makes me realize that the "god tier" League meta actually just makes champion design ridiculously hard) Buffing the things she's /supposed/ to be good at, the engagements she's chosen, should accentuate that you choose her to stomp early, control dragon, and push hard. Yeah, she doesn't do that right now. Yeah, her lane is mediocre, and we're used to her having no particular strength, but the status quo being broken is why champions get changed. Straight buffs tend to not make a champion more interesting or fun, just more powerful. When you have a good champion that's good at everything (Elise, anyone?), they're overplayed, perceived as easy, and people get sick of them. Having really limited T1 champs is boring, and "good all around" champions perpetuate that. The argument against that is a) League is primarily a solo queue game, and people want to play the champs they know, and your team isn't personally responsible for compensating for your pick, and b) the best champions are good at everything. Thresh, Sona, Jinx, Caitlyn, Vi... those consistent T1/T2 champs, have very few weaknesses. They aren't locked into long cooldowns for effectiveness, they play defense and offense relatively well, they don't have an ineffective time in the game, and meta shifts do not significantly change their pick rates / effectiveness (Jinx may be a little early to judge in this manner).
>Champions that are "meh" at everything are really, really boring. I feel quite differently. I like being able to adapt to multiple situations. Champs who excel at one thing get boring to me, since you are forced to play one specific way to win. With someone like MF you can adapt your playstyle and build to the game and still be successful. Maybe not highly successful, but good enough to the point that, if you couldn't win with one strategy, you might be able to switch and win with another. For many champs, if you can't win with their primary strength, they aren't good enough at anything else to consider winning with a different strategy. Basically, I like options. Even if those options are meh. I don't honestly expect MF to be a generalist (because I know Riot wont allow it), but I also don't have an opinion on her preferred strengths. Or even if this is the time to define them. The most important thing right now is to improve her feel. It's alright for her to stay underwhelming overall, so long as she doesn't feel miserable to play in some (many) cases. Like I said, nerf her weaknesses over buffing her strengths. Because even if she had more well defined strengths, I don't like the feel of her current weaknesses, so I would still want them to be changed in some way.
: I would argue that MF gets a very strong lane in exchange for her status being a bit lesser than similar teamfight carries - Twitch is actually pretty bad at trades in lane, while MF's double up does a lot of damage, and her autos hit harder earlier thanks to Impure Shots. As for the "non of the benefits of hybrid," we have to consider the history of LoL. AP was originally supposed to be the only ability scaling, and AD was specifically for Auto Attacks. That's why double up has AD scaling, but the ulti doesn't: one is an attack replacement, the other is an ability. I think that itemization currently doesn't favor her, but the amount of power Bullettime brings to a teamfight is substantial. She doesn't have good escape, but Strut gives her the tools to avoid engagements - especially if Make it Rain was something instead that fit the "bounty hunter" flavor better (remember that she's a pirate hunter, not a lady pirate). Maybe some vision and a faster Strut regeneration would make it just /hard/ to catch her, and in that way she doesn't need an escape, she just prevents unfavorable engagements. As the hunter, she should be setting up engagements that favor her, attacking from long range with double up, dueling while the Impure Shots steroid is up, or setting up her team's CC to exploit Bullettime. I agree this fantasy isn't in place now, but I do think it's possible - but she should definitely either END teamfights if uninterrupted, which can be difficult or impossible if slightly behind, or win lane and be very scary/difficult to gank. She needs a strength and weakness, where as right now she's just mediocre all around.
I figured someone would comment on her lane power. I didn't find a place to fit it into my OP, but I have to disagree with this actually being much of a strength. Her kit comes up short for actually being a successful lane bully. It is easy to play around her and prevent her from taking advantage of her... advantages. She relies too heavily on her support, and other ADCs lane bully just as well or even better, while not suffering such harsh drawbacks, or having other strengths as well. Or in the case of Twitch, he has his assassination potential as a major strength, while also having a solid team fight presence. It's not that she doesn't have strengths, its just that, especially when compared to her contemporaries, her strengths dont outweigh her weaknesses. >AP was originally supposed to be the only ability scaling, and AD was specifically for Auto Attacks. Even Zac can't stretch far enough for this to legitimately explain MF's ratios/damage types. Not to mention this has almost no relevance in modern League, and, if it isn't already, definitely needs to be abandoned in favor of more sensible and balance-able paradigms. Rather than buffing her strengths, I would rather nerf her weaknesses. Personally, I'm actually okay with her being 'meh' at many things. Her lane is okay, her teamfight is good, she can duel and take objectives decently. The real problem is that she has weaknesses that would otherwise balance out much greater strengths. If those weaknesses weren't so harsh, I believe she would feel much better overall.
: Changing Strut could be as simple as "At level 11, damage from minions and non-epic monsters will no longer cancel Strut's effect." But how about this rework: * Impure Shots (Innate) * Passive moved to [Innate] from [W]. * Bonus damage reduced to 5% from 6%. * Damage type changed to physical from magical. * Duration reduced to 4 seconds from 6 seconds. * Bonus damage is now triggered by each of Miss Fortune's abilities. * Double Up (Q) * AD ratio changed to 100% AD versus both targets from 85% / 100%. * Base damage reduced to 15 / 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 from 20 / 35 / 50 / 65 / 80. * AP ratio increased to 40% / 80% from 35% / 50%. * NEW EFFECT: The base damage and AP ratio now deals magic damage and applies spell effects. * NEW EFFECT: The physical portion can now critically strike, which is only calculated against the initial target but will increase the damage to both. * REVISED TOOLTIP: Miss Fortune fires a shot that bounces from the target to strike a secondary enemy, dealing 100% AD physical damage to both targets plus bonus magic damage that is doubled on the secondary target. The physical damage applies on-hit effects and the magic damage applies spell effects. * Shock and Awe (W) * NEW ACTIVE: For the next 4 seconds, Miss Fortune gains 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40 % bonus attack speed and will shoot twice on each attack and Double Up, with each shot dealing 57.5 / 60 / 62.5 / 65 / 67.5% AD damage (total of 115 / 120 / 125 / 130 / 135 % AD). Impure Shots, Double Up's bonus magic damage and other on-hit effects are unaffected. * Use the Strut particle effect while active and perhaps add an amount of flat movement speed for historical purposes. * Make It Rain * Cast time removed. * Damage interval changed to 0.5 seconds from 0.25 seconds. * Maximum base damage reduced to 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 / 210 from 90 / 145 / 200 / 255 / 310. * *Now applies Impure Shots.* * Slow reduced to 20% at all ranks from 25 / 35 / 45 / 55 / 65 %. * NEW EFFECT: Targets are now slowed for an additional 6 / 7 / 8 / 9 / 10 % per stack of Impure Shots, up to 99%. * Bullet Time * Damage type changed to magical from physical. (Still does mixed damage since Impure Shot also had its damage type changed.) * The channel is now interrupted by disarming effects instead of silencing effects, as with Lucian's The Culling.
If that is the only change that would be made to Strut, there is no reason to gate it through level 11. Just make it always function that way. And I wasn't trying to offer a specific list of changes. This post was more about highlighting what needs changing and why.
: I think double up is already a skillshot, and you aim it with your positioning. Which is a really cool reward for an ADC taking a risk, especially when it exploits a tool like Strut. It's one of the best designed parts of Miss Fortune, and I think it's why people play her. Double Up feels special, and I agree with you that it isn't on the radar ATM. (Also, like counter play for days. It's easier to dodge than Lucian's Q, and they nerfed the scaling on that back when he was mega OP. Never changed the way aiming worked.) I actually like Impure Shots, but I also play Varus so I probably don't know what I'm talking about. I like the mixed damage aspect on her as it makes armor stacking a little less soul crushing to play against pre-LW. I do agree that the amount of AP scaling on her is confusing, but it's probably for the best since it isn't enabling Trinity Force (at least, not that I've seen) and enables an off build people actually have fun playing. (although, that off build exploits the fact that Make it Rain is terrible for an ADC). The Make it Rain change sounds way, way too strong. Most ADC's simply don't get that level of escape (MS buff passive + slowing E). If we look at similar abilities, we have Varus and Kog'Maw E's, Lucian and Graves Dashes (on E), Vayne Tumbles, and Jinx's Flame Chompers. (other ADC's get defensive abilities on E too, but they aren't quite the "CC them" style). If make it rain is a flexible engage/disengage tool, like a dash, it's probably not supposed to scale up, and probably should have more than a 10% slow. Here is the cast that makes the most sense for just a straight up buff, although that might make her horrifying as getting 20%+ slowed and then Bullettimed sounds like a dreadful way to die - MF's ulti should be about rewarding identifying where the enemy wants to be and preventing them from being there, or used as a way to wreck during an ADC duel (think Twitch's Ulti). This buff would also require a shorter casting time. It might also be primarily an escape, less flexible but more powerful. In this case scaling slow makes sense, because at max range it isn't doing much to lock people down, and at minimum range isn't saving MF too much damage, but if placed in between MF and an Udyr it could save her life. I wonder if this makes River Ganking an MF+Janna/Thresh lane impossible, or if there's a scaling speed which is satisfying for the ability, but I think having to plan about usiing it defensively is interesting and potentially a place for smart power (too early and it does nothing, too late and you're dead, just right and it powerfully locks down the enemy). This version is closest to Jinx's Flame Chompers, and probably requires an increased duration and cool down (although I cast it so little the CD might already be high enough. Honestly no idea, this version would probably need an 18s+ CD). Like I said, this + keeping up strut might make MF "Completely ungankable". Then there's leaving it as it is, like with Varus and Kogmaw. Interestingly, both those champion have similar Q pokes + W magic damage on hit, but both have a larger pay off for a successful engagement (a large amount of % HP magic damage), while MF is more likely to want to poke through minions and then engage in large teamfights, a fairly different pattern from optimizing a steroid or procing spell casts. I think MiR and Kog's E are in a similar, not super satisfying place, although they may have some power I'm not seeing. This version would basically be like the "dash" option above, sans improved cast time. This is probably the least meaningful and least rewarding buff here, since it would be a straight up numbers game of doubling the slow and leaving it as an awkward spell with this identity not of "i can sacrifice this safety to get a significant advantage now" but a "maybe if I cast this I can zone them out for a few seconds/deal some free damage." (Can you tell I don't like Kog'Maw's E, which I believe is significantly better than Make it Rain?). As for the ulti, I think it's in a fine place not directly scaling with AD, especially since it's procing her passive, which rewards her for poking around early (free stacks), and makes sure that her ultimate relies on her items. If you take W off ulti and add similar/better AD scaling, I think you weaken MF as a whole. Her current stacking pattern is cool, and Impure Shots automatically rewards her and her team for keeping people inside the ulti. Also, I'm excited to see where this goes. I think MF is fun to play, and giving her a bit more oomph may force me to pick up ADC again :D
Double up is kind of a skillshot kind of not. It does have a targeting system, but there is still luck/skill involved. It occupies a unique inbetween space, which is a good thing for sure. The biggest problem I have with her damage types and ratios is that, by the numbers, she should work as an AP or hybrid character, like Corki or Ezreal. But she doesn't. So basically she gets the negatives of being mixed damage, with almost none of the benefits. I understand that this is a balance point, I just feel that it goes a little crazy on Miss Fortune, and there are better ways to go about balancing her. But again, I don't think this is something thats going to be looked at right now, anyway. As it stands, MiR is basically a worthless spell. For the reasons I mentioned, it doesn't even provide relevant utility. Likewise, her passive isn't really an escape tool, either. It's just the best escape tool she has, which speaks to just how messed up she is. Even if both of them receive some of my suggested changes it wouldn't give her more safety than most ADCs these days. First, moveblocks are far more powerful than slows. Graves, Lucian, Corki, Ezreal, Tristana, and even Caitlyn can traverse walls. Vayne, Kalista, and Lucian to a lesser extent, have spammable moveblocks (Kalista can even go over walls as well). And most of these champs have secondary safety options as well. Even the other immobile champs are generally safer, with multiple options such as hard CC and slows. More than this, the problem with Miss Fortune is that she gains almost no significant advantages for her lack of safety. Most ADCs who sacrifice safety trade it for other distinct advantages. Like you said, Kog'maw does much more damage, not to mention he has safety in range. Varus has poke, and also has hard CC from his ult. Twitch is another example with a similar kit, but again he has more benefits for his relative lack of safety. Assassination potential, true damage, and he even has as much teamfight presence as Miss Fortune. Currently Strut and MiR are both ineffectual for safety. Even if they did serve that purpose properly, they still aren't strong options (moveblock or hard CC). There is plenty of power budget headroom for her safety, especially if we aren't talking about increasing her damage. As for this combo making her ungankable, I feel that could be addressed with some balance changes such as cooldown at low levels on MiR, and max movespeed bonus on Strut. Plus, Strut being largely out of Miss Fortunes control, it is easy for enemies to work around. A little poke from the support and suddenly she is incredibly gankable (this is currently part of the problem, but with some tuning could be an acceptable weakness).
: Might as well make it an arcade skin.
Thats what I was thinking. Final Boss Veigar popped into my head right away.
Rioter Comments
: Oh look, this thread again. As if those players who don't care are going to read it :)
It's not really for them, though, is it? It's really just a place for us to vent. Even if they did see it, I doubt they would change their minds. That's just the kind of people they are. And maybe some people who are kind of "on the fence" about the topic, so to speak, will see that plenty of people take the PBE seriously, and that will convince them to do so as well.
: I wish people would take PBE more seriously. WARNING: This is a ramblings of a MAD man.
No one want's to play with the kid who shits in the sandbox. And why do we keep letting that kid back in the sandbox? I think anyone who says something along the lines of "lol, its PBE, who cares?" should have their account suspended. There are plenty of other people more deserving of the PBE, who would be more appreciative and helpful.
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