: Akali Gameplay Feedback Mega-Thread
Her AP ratios feel extremely low. Currently, you're better off going pure AD, as it nets similar burst, but with better survivability, waveclear (with Hydra), and sustain. I don't know if the intent was for her to do more Hybrid builds, but as is, there's no point. Her initial burst ratio from AD with Hydra and only the auto that procs the passive is 5.05 x bonus AD + 2.0 x base AD. You can increase this further with Stormrazor for a guaranteed 60% total AD additional damage, and Trinity force for 200% more base AD damage. Most of this burst is also AOE. Her total burst with AP (which is also partially delayed due to the ult delay, whereas none of the damage from AD is delayed) with Lichbane is 2.0 - 2.6 x AP + 1.75 x base AD. Gunblade can add another 30% AP damage. With her combined AD ratios being over double her combined AP ratios in the best case scenaro, I don't see a point in ever building AP in the current iteration of Akali, as you don't get twice as much AP from items as you do AD. Not to mention the AD build path is more flexible and provides much needed waveclear (so you can max E first for a shorter combo CD and higher burst). It's also more difficult to itemize against, as she has good AD ratios on the magic damage from her Q and passive. I think she could really use a ~.35 AP ratio on her E at the least, as even if you're hitting and running with only passive autos, you're getting more damage building AD, especially in the early game, considering a significant portion of her AP damage is tied to the ult.
: AD Itemization Changes on Jayce
Hail of blades probably wouldn't be worth it. You'd be better off with electrocute, pressed attack, fleet footwork, or aery.
: Infinity Edge deals true damage to Illaoi's spirit while Conqueror doesn't
Conquerer only does true damage against champions. Infinity edge deals true damage to anything that can be crit. The Spirit is not a champion, so conquerer does not work against it.
: First off: your math is wrong. At the two item mark against a squishy champion, live outperforms PBE. Dummies have 100 armor, at the two item mark no squishy has that much armor. Second, you're ignoring the effect of those items coming online 700 gold later, with a less forgiving buildpath. The point of these changes is to delay powerspikes and reduce burst damage, and that is what is happening. The point isn't to make ADCs invest significantly more money only to be less effective after jumping new hurdles. Lastly, Last Whisper is an ungodly inefficient item, and its passive has countersynergy with IE's true damage. It's true that sitting on a second Zeal might defeat some of the purpose of the changes (it's not changing the fact that by that time you've already paid 600 gold more than live, and had to farm for 1300 gold backs in 4 separate occasions), and that IE doubling critical hit is not a very inspired way of making fundamental changes to the marksman class, but it's still failing to see the forest for the trees. There are new compelling options for one item powerspikes as well as midgame options that can compete with IE Zeals. As is common, you're forgetting that this is a starting point for balance; what you're supposed to be looking at is if the changes make for a good baseline for power adjustment. If they decided those spikes were too strong, they can just alter the numbers on the true damage conversion, by adding scaling, for example. "This solution would reduce the damage ADC's are dealing by about 15-20% without doing too much harm to the Crit Based Bruisers (Yasuo/Trynd/Graves)." This is no solution, and the overall problem with this thread. You outlined absolutely nothing as a concrete action, and expect ADC damage to go down by as much as 20% because... why exactly? **The point of the changes isn't to cripple ADCs, it's to change the way they deal damage, and at which points in the game**. The changelist achieves that, even if it ends up being retuned.
>First off: your math is wrong. At the two item mark against a squishy champion, live outperforms PBE. Dummies have 100 armor, at the two item mark no squishy has that much armor. Second, you're ignoring the effect of those items coming online 700 gold later, with a less forgiving buildpath. The point of these changes is to delay powerspikes and reduce burst damage, and that is what is happening. The point isn't to make ADCs invest significantly more money only to be less effective after jumping new hurdles. Lastly, Last Whisper is an ungodly inefficient item, and its passive has countersynergy with IE's true damage. Actually, because of the higher crit chance at 2 completed items, the new infinity edge is slightly stronger even against squishy targets. Assuming that squishy has ~60 armor (a 37.5% reduction; pretty normal for the mid game with no armor items), the difference in new vs old infinity edge at 2 completed items is ~1.015*AD*attack rate dps versus 1.09*AD*attack rate dps. Versus tanks, that dps difference is even more pronounced. Granted, each individual crit against a squishy is slightly weaker (~12.5% increase to damage at 60 armor, compared to a 25% increase from live), but the crits are happening 20% more often, so the overall DPS increase is actually higher. Also, having 20% of your damage be converted to true damage means ADCs aren't required to build armor pen in the late game to deal with tanks like they are now. They can instead get another lifesteal or defensive item so they aren't quite as fragile. Also any ADC (or yasuo/trynd) can solo baron after IE + BT + double zeal item now, because the true damage bypasses the damage reduction debuff. That may not seem like a big deal, but it significantly reduces the risk of taking baron, as most of the team can focus on zoning out the other team or pressuring other parts of the map while baron is being taken, and the team can finish baron without anyone losing HP. As far as the rest, the only other compelling option for the crit ADCs is Stormrazor, because it allows for a single item powerspike, which will be immensely helpful for carries with weak early games like Twitch (Basically brings back the old ghostblade/sword of the divine assassin builds that were the go to on Twitch before the items were reworked/removed). It delays the full crit build power spike, but it should compensate pretty easily. Only caster ADCs like Corki and Ezreal are really likely to go for the new essence reaver, though it may make them more viable with 2 item max CDR after trinity force.
: building armor might as well not even matter after this. let's take darius for example shall we? against, say, a malphite with 300 armor. let's say darius autos malphite a couple times. one auto and a w. this applies his passive which stacks black cleaver up to a max of 24% armor reduction. that puts malphite down to 228 armor. not bad, but not great considering malphite's whole deal is stacking armor. darius gets inherent 30% armor penetration from his e passive. tack on 35% from LDR, that;s 65% of armor completely ignored, which brings down his armor value to 79.8, which is about 1.7 armor higher than his base armor value AT LEVEL 13. at a certain point, it's literally to your detriment to have over 100 armor. hopefully what this means, along with the removal of giant slayer, is that stacking health can actually be viable again, as long as there's a way to deal with bork abusers.
Armor pen scales multiplicatively, so that's 54.5% armor pen, not 65%, but yeah, the changes to the adc items, especially infinity edge, will make armor pretty much worthless going into the late game.
: how this will balance the adc meta
Also, some math on the new infinity edge (after some testing to confirm): The 20% crit damage as true damage is based off of the total damage of the critical strike, NOT the bonus critical strike damage (IE: It is 40% of the attacker's AD, instead of 20%). This means that, assuming no armor penetration, against a target with 100 armor (a 50% reduction), true damage from IE is effectively increasing the damage of all critical strikes by 20%. Vs a target with 200 armor (~67% reduction), the new infinity edge gives a damage bonus of 40% on critical strikes. Against a target with 300 armor (75% DR), it amounts to a 60% increase in damage. The old infinity edge gave an effective 25% bonus to the damage of critical strikes in all situations. Most full glass build characters will get between 100 and 150 armor with a full build after only a single defensive item that provides armor; base armor at level 18 is usually over 90. Additionally, that true damage is bypassing the basic attack reduction from Ninja tabi, further adding to the added damage over the old IE. What this means is that Crit ADCs will no longer need armor penetration to deal heavy damage to tanks, allowing them to build an additional defensive item. In terms of DPS with a full triple Crit build, ADCs will be stronger than before, and their DPS after 2.5 items (Zeal item, Iedge, Zeal) will be higher, more consistent, and harder to itemize against than it was before. So if the intent of the item changes is to make ADCs spike later, and for late game ADCs to be more punished for falling behind, the current changes aren't likely to be successful. Not accounting for the +10 AD from the reworked infinity edge, assuming a standard triple crit build, Crit ADC DPS will be increased by a minimum of ~10% from what it was pre-patch after 2.5 items, and can increase by as much as ~28%, depending on the armor of their target. I think the true damage conversion may be a mistake, as with a standard build, the bonus critical strike chance and increased AD from Infinity edge already make up for the loss of the increased crit damage. Taking away the need for an ADC to build armor pen against targets that are stacking armor to counter them also means allowing them to scale harder than before, and, combined with the rework to the armor pen items, may result in ADCs being able to ignore so much armor that the stat loses too much value. Also, Stormrazor will allow some ADCs that typically focus on the late game, like Twitch, to become relevant after only a single item (Much like the old BoRK Ghostblade Twitch build before both items were reworked, except a bit stronger), as it allows them to hit a power spike off of a single item, rather than needing to farm for 2 items to be relevant. As such, it will probably be a difficult item to balance in its current iteration, as many ADCs may rush it to snowball a lead, or to become relevant earlier at the expense of delaying a greater spike to later in the game.
: [Discussion] Is this new Juggernaut rework suitable for Garen, Darius and Mordekaiser ?
>His new kits are now more of a carry support-ish He doesn't replace the support in bot lane. He replaces the ADC. With a Morde on the team, it's probably worth it to run a semi-utility ADC like Sivir or Varus in the mid or top lane, and an AP with reasonable CC such as Orianna to compensate for Morde having no CC or mobility. He was pushed into the bot lane because you can't afford to have a mid or top laner with no utility or assassination potential; the ADC role is the closest to what they perceive to be Morde's identity (high damage output with no mobility or CC); he's just melee, so he has to be tanky and needs a team that can CC the targets so he can get into combat and dish out said damage. Thresh is probably the ideal lane partner for Morde because the lantern gives a way for him to reach combat or escape, and thresh has the CC to force people to take Morde's Q damage. Relic shield is the recommended starting item because it gives a large amount of sustain and provides the support with additional gold (Double relic shield bot lane hype; If the support last hits with relic shield, Morde still gets the bonus Exp), not because he is supposed to try to support. He even gets bonus exp for last hitting, which also increases the support's exp if they went utility, so even if he does fall behind, you can keep up in levels if he is the one last hitting (not to mention he actually needs gold like a carry because he has good scaling and no utility). As they are currently, all of these champions would be broken if they had more CC or mobility than they do, so while the complaints in this regard are warranted because of how League functions now (Mobility and CC are basically everything because the team with more mobility decides when and where fights happen, and the team with more CC generally wins the fights). Granted, Morde on live would probably still be bad even if he had mobility or CC because he doesn't have the damage to back it up without being too squishy to get that damage in.
: Mordekaiser Build Discussion
Mallet is better than Rylai's with the increased AA range. None of his abilities slow for 40% because they are all multi-hit or AOE, and a 20% slow really isn't enough to stick to someone unless they have very limited or no mobility. I've been going {{item:3144}} {{item:3078}} {{item:3022}} with {{item:3742}} or {{item:3143}} for armor and another defense item, turning the {{item:3144}} into {{item:3146}} when I can afford to do so after mallet (Before defenses if ahead, after defenses if behind). It's been pretty solid; ranged slow active on the Cutlass/Gunblade to gap close, and a permanent 40% slow while autoing with plenty of HP and reasonable resists. His long AA range makes Mallet much better than on most champs. For boots, {{item:3009}} are ideal, but {{item:3111}} are necessary if there is a lot of hard CC. Sterak's Gage and Titanic Hydra are both interesting options for him. The AA reset on Hydra would help with getting the 3rd Q hit, and Sterak's Gage is amazing for burst mitigation (Could replace an MR item).
: Morde's q is applying spellvamp at 33% effectiveness.
It's a multi-hit spell. Working as intended. Same reason Rylai's is only a 20% slow with it. (It's teated as a DoT instead of a single target ability for spell vamp) http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Mordekaiser Is saying both SV and Rylai's apply as single target, but it shouldn't be. The wiki is also saying it's a projectile and that the auto attack part doesn't apply lifesteal, so is clearly wrong and should be ignored with regards to spell effects
: FULL SUMMARY: Mordekaiser Rework Feedback
The passive change was a buff in the case of building HP, without HP, it's a nerf late game, but a slight buff early. The E base damage is actually higher at rank 5 with only ~158 AD, or 0 from items at level 18. At level 9, you would need 35 AD for it to match, but it also has a shorter CD (5 seconds vs 6). In addition, it generates a significant base shield amount on hitting champions (15% max shields, or 3.75% max HP), and the range was increased by 25. The original mordekaiser (Which was considered brokenly OP), was only so strong because he generated up to 24 shields per target hit by his E, which is generally less in teamfights than the current iteration on the PBE, and the PBE iteration has a shorter CD, so the shields are also being generated/refreshed more frequently. This is a buff in all circumstances due to the reduced CD and bonus shield generation, and a tanky build with even minimal AD, will deal significantly more damage and be significantly tankier than before. His W base damage was increased by ~26%-152% at rank 1, and 5-105% at rank 5 (Damage overlaps with the new one, so the damage is doubled when the enemy is within both zones), and the ratio is the same or up to double depending on how long the zones overlap. In addition, the damage is over a shorter duration (4 seconds instead of 6), meaning more DPS and faster shield generation along with a heal, and getting the full damage in is more likely. The heal is more valuable than the amount of resists given by the old W. As long as you have an ally to cast it on that is close to you, the W change was a massive buff. His ult damage was increased to 25-35% from 20-34%, which gives him a stronger mid game, and the dragon ghost can tank towers or baron, making it very easy to secure those objectives after taking dragon. Assuming you are laning in bot, you should be around for dragon fights, and with the E/W, it's not unlikely for you to get it. A hybrid tank mordekaiser with mallet, tri-force, and gunblade for damage has been working quite well for me. Full AP Morde is relatively weak, and should be, because he doesn't have mobility or CC, and AP items don't give enough in terms of defense or utility to make it work, which is why he's been so weak since the last rework. The only change I think is really necessary for Mordekaiser is for his W to allow selfcasting, but only for the secondary active. As a champion with no CC or mobility, he really can't be put anywhere except in the supported carry position for the laning phase, because you need the other positions to have CC or enough mobility and burst to delete an enemy carry. So either he is forced into the bot lane, is too overpowered and receives permaban status, or not quite good enough to play unless they give him CC or mobility. It sucks, but that's the case right now. There is too much emphasis on mobility and CC in league to make use of a character with neither to be made use of without stacking CC in most of the other positions.
: His new W is just stupid lol I really don't understand why they are trying to make him a duo laner at all. They didn't help him with kiting issues so if they force him bot the ranged champs that typically fill that role will stomp him. He could support but that would make his W experience passive worthless. Riot is rushing out half baked reworks. People want them to make cookies, not give them room temperature cookie dough. The new changes make it where he could be a dangerous control jungler but his w is worthless in the jungle and his clear speed is mediocre. Maybe allow self cast but only affecting monsters and minions not champions? I think His passive should be reverted but perhaps keep the below 25% thing. Make his E give 15% shield on large monsters. I Haven't completely worked anything out but they need to either make him a support or push him in any direction but melee adc as he has no mobility at all which is what makes those somewhat viable. Morde live is far better than this atm and maybe Morde should not be updated with the rest as his is more drastic and needs a significantly higher amount of work if you don't want to ruin some people's favorite champ and potentially lose many players.
Eh, his new W is alright. With it's sustain, shields, and his increased hp regen, he doesn't really have any issues with harass in lane. He should still be able to self-cast it for the drain, but he doesn't need the regular damage on a self-cast; it's too strong for that (in total it does ~60% more damage than the pre-rework W over a shorter duration if you include the drain). If it only affected monsters/minions that's fine, but it doesn't seem necessary since his wave clear is good enough with his E. With the boosted shield generation and reduced CD on his E, his lack of mobility isn't as much of an issue because he is so much harder to kill, and the 25% shields not draining makes him a bit more burst resistant, along with the AD ratios letting him go for a much tankier build, with the massive scaling/base damage on the Q letting him remain a significant threat. Live Morde's problem is that he does no damage if you don't stack AP (His base damages are awful and he doesn't have any natural scaling to increase it), and if you stack AP, you get bursted down before you can hit anyone because he's a slow melee champion.
: (clears throat) The W must be cast with an ally. What about this does not seem right to you? "Viable for solo lane." No, he has no solo lane. They are trying to make him into a Fighter/Tank, **yet** he is a **Fighter/Mage**. The ability itself goes against what he's about as a character. I also don't know what to build on him, anymore. The Q was a nerf, I know that for sure. It hurts his wave clear and against a solo champ, it dealt amazing damage. Now, I must have AS and now MS to deal the same or better? His W was nerfed. It use to just automatically give a shield (bonus armor and magic resist) to himself and an ally. This with some Spell Vamp healed Mord just fine. His E just really could had used a better buff, I'll just leave it though. I agree with the guy above with the most ^ on his comment. These changes didn't help Mord. And he has yet to even try and fix him, while Skarner, Darius, and Garen each got buffs. What did Morde get? A small buff to his base AD and a buff to his R. WE WEREN"T EVEN ASKING FOR THIS! WE WERE ASKING FOR A CHANGE FOR THIS TERRIBLE W!!
He's basically what he was before the first rework in terms of role, which is a VERY tanky Bruiser/Mage. The Q wasn't a nerf imo. It's a nerf in the 1v1 situations when you reach and stick to a target, but in teamfights or when you have an ally with CC, it's a massive buff. You don't need Attack speed, and you shouldn't build it because he scales so poorly with it. His W now gives a massive heal instead of armor/mr; net buff in that case, and the total base damage is significantly higher than what it was before over a shorter duration. In the case where you have an ally near you (Which should be always if you are fighting), he received a MASSIVE buff. His W range is also incredibly long and it works on your ghost if you've ulted someone down. It's more than worth using even without the extra damage for being right next to your ally because of how strong the heal is, which works even if your ally is out of range or dies before you reactivate it. IMO, the only change he needs regarding any of his skills is for his W to not require another target to be cast, but if he self-casts it, when there are no allies nearby, he only gets the secondary/end of duration drain. The changes increased his shield generation and reduced E CD; even with less reliable damage than before, his overall damage went up, and he is much harder to take down in fights, not to mention the dragon ghost. >I also don't know what to build on him, anymore. Relic shield {{item:3302}} (Sustain in lane and extra gold for your support) -> Boots 1 and Cutlass {{item:3144}} (Relatively cheap slow and some extra damage) -> Swiftness boots{{item:3009}} and Tri-force {{item:3078}} (Mercs instead of Swiftness if they have a decent amount of hard CC and few/no slows) -> Frozen Mallet {{item:3022}} - Gunblade {{item:3146}} (If you are needing defense, finish this later) - Dead Man's Plate {{item:3742}} Mobility and a good amount of health and armor - another general defense item depending on what you need; GA{{item:3026}}, Bashees{{item:3102}} , and Sterak's Gage are good for general defense if you are getting killed by mages, Omen{{item:3143}} and Thornmail {{item:3075}} are good vs AD champions. Sell relic shield sometime in the mid-game when you need an item slot or when selling it will get you the gold for a piece of a bigger item. I've had quite a bit of success with this so far, winning both games relatively easily despite both top and mid losing their lanes hard. (As in the enemy mid was 6/0 at 15min), and with less jungle pressure.
: He doesn't need to near instantly destroy some one to be able to go AP. Obviously, he'll always need to be a tankier AP build, but with the new Warmog's, how his E works giving instant shields, and such, he can easily go a tanky AP build, BUT only if his damn Q was reliable. With MS quints, you can essentially be fine with a Rylai's, without the Trinity to stick to a target IF his Q was more reliable. If his base AS was simply bigger, both his AD and AP build benefit while also making his AP build far more viable than the current 'Cheese some one as AD for the first 20 minutes of the game so they surrender early'. And on top of the resistances making his Q go from 1.3k to 650, you have to add in the AS slows like FH and Randuin's. The AS slows are AFTER the other AS things are applied, meaning at about the 1.1 attacks per sec, if some one on the enemy team has a FH, you go from 1.1, to .935 and you only get to 1.1 with a Trinity Force and being max level. It's simply asinine. His base AS needs to be buffed so his AP build, at least a tankier AP build, can actually shine. He's already gimped when it comes to health regen, gimped in base stats, and his base everything is horrible to make up for the large amount of damage they gave his Q. This would be fine if his Q could be reliable.
You don't have to hit the same target all 3 times with the Q. Hitting one target twice, then swapping to a target that comes into range for the 3rd hit still gets a ton of damage in, and just the third hit on a target is usually enough to guarantee the kill for your team. The lack of reliability on a single target with the Q is a non-issue. It's SUPPOSED to be that way so he isn't brokenly overpowered, and as it is, he's probably too strong right now if he isn't against a lane that specifically counters him (and shuts him down). You don't need attack speed to make it work; you just need to not overextend and go for the right target(s). Hitting a tank is fine, since it will take out a huge chunk of their HP and give you shields. And yes, a full AP build, even a relatively tanky one, will need to deal obscene amounts of rather reliable damage to be viable. Look at Rumble and Swain. Their damage is on par with mages going glass cannon builds (With better ratios in Rumble's case), with a bit over half the AP. Despite that, they aren't picked over the typical mages in games due to their shorter range, lower mobility, lower up-front burst, and susceptibility to kiting. In Swain's case, if someone relatively squishy walks into your range during the mid game, and takes the Q+E, they are probably going to die, and that damage isn't avoidable without Zhonya's or a similar effect; it's point and click damage. >His base AS needs to be buffed so his AP build, at least a tankier AP build, can actually shine. He's already gimped when it comes to health regen, gimped in base stats, and his base everything is horrible to make up for the large amount of damage they gave his Q. This would be fine if his Q could be reliable. His base stats were almost universally buffed... More max shields early and after HP, more HP regen, higher overall base damages (his W damage went up by ~70% if you include the secondary effect, and does said damage over a shorter duration), his E CD was reduced and now generates 15% max shields per champion hit (This is a HUGE buff. The original Morde, which was overpowered got a flat 6-18(reduced to 1-5 with the initial rework) on everything, but that was way less relevant in team fights than 15% max from champions, which can easily get over 100), his Ult base damage was increased in this last update, and he can ghost dragon (Which can tank Turrets or Baron for days, giving him obscene pushing power whenever he is around when dragon dies). And why does his AP build need to be viable? (Not saying it isn't right now; It's alright, but it's nowhere near as reliable as the bruiser build). Besides, turning an ADC into a ghost will give you good damage even if you are going full tank, so going for significant AP for damage over mobility, defense, and slows to capitalize on his high base damages and compensate for his low mobility seems like a way stronger option. Also... Original broken OP morde had shit AP ratios. His Q didn't even have one, the E ratio was half of what it is now, and his ult ratio was increased from 1.6 to 4% along with a rework to make it deal half damage instantly and have a longer duration for the remainder. Even with relatively low, or unreliable damage, and no mobility, a character can be way too strong simply because they are too hard to kill. Despite his damage being buffed considerably with even 2 AP items, Mordekaiser went from one of the strongest champions in the game to one of the weakest. Just throwing that out there, because really, what they are trying right now is a lot like the OP morde featuring good ratios. Trying to force him to build AP is a huge factor in why he is so weak right now; there just aren't any AP items that provide what he needs.
: Dead Man's plate pretty much kills FoN. Being a MS item for bruisers with defense as well as an added offense component (something FoN never had).
FoN is more consistent move speed. Also, it would stack well with Deadman's plate because it's % movespeed and the HP regen passive would go well with the high HP value on Dead Man's Plate.
: Hm, won't be surprised if it's passive is made unique soon. The question is will it stack with the mastery?
Yes, it will stack with the mastery.
: Now I see that why the E was something people worried for. I'd had been fine with the E if the W were to work on Mordekaiser without a ally. (It being a free damage+heal.) But even with the Q being turned into something that does need MS now, I feel that this was yet again another flat nerf to Mord. You nerfed his mage, his fighter, and now his tank is gone. He no longer has the armor and magic resist he once had. It's been replaced with something that we are complaining and trying to point out with Zilean. Gaining bonus EXP can be nice but not nice enough to not at least compensate for the fact you now only deal major damage to 1 person instead of just keeping the original that allowed good/fine damage to 4 or a lot to just 1. They also failed to compensate his E even with the AD put in when they also took his W damage away since its now only viable with a laning partner. His R is now way stronger (because you can now gain a dragon) but that's only like what? Once every time it respawns and if you get it. The Q change is stupid since he got a MS nerf. The W change is (to me) stupid since his solo lanning has grown worse. The E change is worse as it now doesn't compensate for his W's loss of solo lane. I want to know. When you were changing Mordekaiser, were you trying to make him more like Garen, Darius, and Skarner? Considering these changes, I don't really know. Its just, he now deals poke damage with his E, and is basically a supporty champion. At least Garen gets a MS boost for his Q, Mordekaiser not only must swing it 3 times to get max damage, but must keep up with the opponent. I'm okay with the Darius (buff) changes. I'm okay with the Garen (nerf) changes (since he can still fight). I'm okay with the Skarner changes (as he got some small buffs and nerfs here and there). But Mordekaiser was in a bad position before this. If anything, why not; [P] Mordekaiser gains a shield for each damage given (+5 per basic attack) (spells vary). Max shield is based completely off Mordekasier's health (shield worth is up to 50/55/60% of Mordekasiers health). When Mordekaiser is out of combat for 4 seconds, shield will decay -5 per second. (Levels up at level 1/7/13) [Q] Lets just keep it as is for the moment. [W] [Passive] For every Minion Mordekaiser kills, Mordekaiser gain's back 1/2/3/4/5% of his health. [Active] Mordekaiser (and a nearby ally) gain 20/30/40/50/60 Armor and Magic Resist plus 50 MS for 4 seconds. During which, Mordekaiser (and a ally) deal 8/12/16/20/24 (+10% AP) each second. If cast again during the spell, Mordekaiser (and a ally) will deal 50/70/90/110/130 (+20% AP) to surrounding enemies healing themselves by 20% of damage given to champions or monsters and 5% of damage to minions (max is 50/55/60/65/70%). It might be just me but I don't think giving a Fighter/Mage a pure support W is the best idea, but that's just me. **EDIT** After playing as Mord, I finally see the truth. This W is fantastic (if supporting, good luck elsewhere) BUT!!! That E AND Q need to be seriously buffed. I also see there is a missing animation for the first swing with activated Q. But still, it could use a AS boost, like a 25% AS boost for the 3 swings. His E... That honestly needs to just go as it is live. It did nothing but deal gook poke then, now its just a poke. Keep the AD though. It would be compensation for the W he now cannot use when alone.
>You nerfed his mage, his fighter, and now his tank is gone. He no longer has the armor and magic resist he once had. I think you are underestimating the heal on his W. It's ~514 with only 80 AP from items, and the 24 from masteries at level 18 if you hit 3 non-minion targets. That's a significant heal on top of shields, probably a bit of spellvamp, and his ultimate. They didn't nerf his AP ratios, so his AP build should be basically the same; more potential damage, but a bit less burst. Overall, probably a bit weaker, but the full AP build was never particularly good in the first place due to his short range and lack of mobility. His fighter/bruiser build got significantly better with this change, as it gave him an AD ratio on his E, and the increased AA range makes mallet and tri-force better, along with making him harder to kite. >That E AND Q need to be seriously buffed. The E damage is pretty high without much in the way of damage items, and the shield generation on champion hits is huge; same for his Q in terms of damage. Any buffs would need be to the reliability on his Q, but that would also require a nerf to it's maximum damage, which is currently absurdly high.
: The damage is nice, but it TOTALS 300 AD. It has a .23 Total AD ratio on the first hit. Then you multiply that by 3 for the next, so that's .23+.69, multipled by 3 again, so it totals .23+.69+2.07, which is 2.99. It's the equivalent of critting each hit without an IE since you do 3 AA's as well. You're doing 5.99 of your total AD, which is a lot, but over 3 seconds, it's not as powerful as was promised. They said ramp up, which means gaining damage over time, not a quick one-two-three, wait for CD. Logically, what makes him BETTER than Yasuo at this point? Yasuo can get 100% crit so he'll total far more damage in that 3 seconds, he's got a shield just like Morde, he's actually got a bit of mobility, has CC, and can work well with knock-up supports, far better than Morde. Run the numbers yourself for that. Morde's Q hits HARD, but it doesn't do ENOUGH damage AD-wise, which means his AP build should be stronger, but they're balancing his entire kit around his Bruiser Hybrid build, which means he ACTUALLY has a bad early, great mid game, god awful late game. Why do I say that? If you build him AD Bruiser like what they want, that means you're doing mixed damage. Against anyone who has a slight bit of MR, your Q now loses out on its damage. Even if they only have 100 MR in total, that's 50% less damage from you, which means a single set of Mercury Treads and a Locket can potentially kill your magic damage and you're now worrying about the physical damage you do with your Trinity Force and your AA's, but they might even have armor, so you'd need a LW. Hybrid damage is super flawed. It's great in lane because of itemization, but Morde was promised to be the terror of the late game, yet they're balancing him around being a Hybrid Damage AD Bruiser DESPITE having JUST fixed Darius's passive to do physical and even letting Garen's R do true damage against high value targets (I say that because usually it's the carries who end up being marked due to them taking the kills and all). So why does Morde get shafted into the opposite? :( If his Q just got some reliability or SOMETHING, his AP Build could be possible. We can live with the failure that is movement speed by getting some MS quints, a Luden's, or some form of MS in the build on top of a Rylai's, but as it sits, he's an AD Bruiser that'll fall off late despite the fact he's supposed to be a nightmare.
>The damage is nice, but it TOTALS 300 AD. It has a .23 Total AD ratio on the first hit. Then you multiply that by 3 for the next, so that's .23+.69, multipled by 3 again, so it totals .23+.69+2.07, which is 2.99. It's the equivalent of critting each hit without an IE since you do 3 AA's as well. You're doing 5.99 of your total AD, which is a lot, but over 3 seconds, it's not as powerful as was promised. They said ramp up, which means gaining damage over time, not a quick one-two-three, wait for CD. Logically, what makes him BETTER than Yasuo at this point? Yasuo can get 100% crit so he'll total far more damage in that 3 seconds, he's got a shield just like Morde, he's actually got a bit of mobility, has CC, and can work well with knock-up supports, far better than Morde. Uhh... Yasuo is pretty weak right now. Pretty bad comparison. That said, Mordekaiser's Q is the highest damage ability in the game, on a 4 second cd. Sure, it's not guaranteed to kill the target if you hit them 3 times with it (unless you are going full AP, which is dumb because you have no mobility or CC and are melee, so you will be focused down), but it's pretty damn close to a 1 ability kill with minimal damage items on a squishy target. Any more damage or reliability would make it absurdly OP, and in the case where you do get all 3 hits; it's overpowered as is. >Morde's Q hits HARD, but it doesn't do ENOUGH damage AD-wise, which means his AP build should be stronger, but they're balancing his entire kit around his Bruiser Hybrid build, which means he ACTUALLY has a bad early, great mid game, god awful late game. Uhh... ~1300 damage pre-mitigation with Mallet, Gunblade, and Tri-force on a 4 second CD after a 2 second duration (Effectively happens every 6 seconds) isn't enough? His early game being weak should be more than compensated for by him being in a duo lane and getting bonus Exp. He's guaranteed to out-level his lane opponents if he doesn't get forced out of lane, which is an absurd advantage, and with double relic shield, the healing on his W, and a shield or heal from the support, he's going to be hard to force out of lane. On top of that, he hits his power spikes first, giving an advantage in fights over Dragon, which he turns into a ghost that can tank towers or baron to make them easy to solo. >If you build him AD Bruiser like what they want, that means you're doing mixed damage. Against anyone who has a slight bit of MR, your Q now loses out on its damage. Even if they only have 100 MR in total, that's 50% less damage from you, which means a single set of Mercury Treads and a Locket can potentially kill your magic damage and you're now worrying about the physical damage you do with your Trinity Force and your AA's You seem to think damage is the only thing that matters. After that 50% mitigation, it's still ~650 damage, which is still more than most ults will deal after mitigation with voidstaff and significantly more AP; again, on a very short CD that is effectively reduced by both CDR and attack speed. On top of that, you get 25% of that damage dealt (~162) as shields, have another ability to heal you for up to ~500 and generate 25% of that as shields, and an ability that gives you 15% max shields on every target hit + an ult that heals you for 20/25/30% of the target's max HP over 10 seconds and turns them into a ghost that heals you based on it's damage dealt if you have spellvamp, and generates 25% of the damage it deals as shields, making you even harder to take down. With resists, ~3k+ HP, and shields, he's going to be the tankiest character in the game by a pretty significant margin, while still dealing large amounts of damage, unless he gets chain CCed or nuked down by a team with huge amounts of burst. If you are going AP you are doing it wrong because AP Morde can't work. It's the whole reason he is getting a rework. If he could be viable in higher leagues going AP (In bronze/silver almost anything can work) with no mobility or CC and short range, this rework wouldn't be happening. His late game is STILL strong because even though his damage to tanks isn't exceptionally high, they are doing even less to him, and he absolutely destroys anyone squishy if he can get the 3rd Q hit on them. His E will generally just give full shields in teamfights because of the 15% per champion hit, meaning an extra ~10-25% life per use of an ability with a 5 second CD. If that fight lasts 30 seconds, that's 60-150% extra HP over the course of the fight from 1 ability. Did you play Morde before the last rework? He did significantly LESS damage than this one does without building any, generated less shields, and didn't build any damage because he did enough going full tank and was near impossible to kill because of the shields. They removed FoN, which had been the key mobility item for him, and reworked him to have better AP scaling but significantly lower base damages and higher shield generation against champions, but less against minions, making him significantly weaker without building damage, and a bit weaker in the early game, but significantly stronger with damage, pushing him into an AP-bruiser role (Generally he either didn't do enough damage or wasn't tanky enough), but that clearly didn't work. Now they are letting him continue to try that AP Bruiser role, but pushing a true bruiser/tank build for him that could actually work, and with a focus on him being in a duo lane with a support (that might have quite a bit of CC), he doesn't take up a slot on the team that would ordinarily be filled with a champion that has a significant amount of CC, which should make him more reliable overall. He's still going to be a very team-comp dependent pick, but in the situations where he is a strong pick, he's probably going to be way too strong, and he's going to be better at pubstomping than ever, which is probably going to cause him to be nerfed into the ground again until they find some other way to try and rework him. The same goes for the Darius and Garen reworks. >If his Q just got some reliability or SOMETHING, his AP Build could be possible. No it wouldn't. There is no way to compensate for his weaknesses when going AP (You NEED mobility, health, lots of resists, and a reliable slow, which you can't afford to get in large enough amounts when going AP), which is why Morde was bad before this change. If the AP build on him was possible to make good, he would already be strong and wouldn't need a rework in the first place. Unless he is guaranteed to be able to delete someone near instantly when going full AP if he hits them, it's not going to be good, and that type of interaction is terrible for the game, which is why everyone that has ever had it has been nerfed to obscurity.
: I'll go ahead and run the numbers for you on the E.... Currently on Live, it does 250 base plus 60% AP. On PBE, it maxes at 155, but has a .6 total AD ratio added on. To total the 95 damage difference, you'd need 158 AD. After that, it's a buff, but BEFORE that, it's a huge nerf. Morde had always had a subpar early, but an exceptional mid to late. This makes his early SUPER weak. Late game, he's supposed to be a powerhouse of pure doom. That's the point. His power is SUPPOSED to be REALLY strong. And Morde's base AD is 58 plus 5 per level. That's, at max, 148. You need 158, so in total it's a nerf without AD. Usually getting dragon will fix that, but the fact that not even his own base AD is able to compensate for the nerf is astonishing considering they made his Q so unreliable, so I want that reliable. I'd wish they'd clarify their intentions a bit. All they did was say Morde was to replace Marksmen in the bot lane, but they made his kit unable to go AP properly, but his AD build isn't the best considering his damage is pure magic damage. He's going to be a top laner in the bot lane, which is REALLY awkward. They said they wanted a Juggernaut, they told us his power was going to be strong and his BASE stats would be his tankiness, but all they really did was make him a super niche pick that's really easy to bully out of lane early by actual poke comps since his only ranged ability to farm isn't going to be doing enough and it has a possibility to PUSH the lane, opening his immobile self up to ganks, but that CAN be fine if his damn Q wasn't so fricken god awful to use. With Morde's base AS, .601 (Which is a nerf from .694 on live), he can't get off the Q's in a timely manner. At max level, he'll have .926ish attacks per second. That means he needs 2 seconds to get off his Q. 2s since he'll hit instantly, 1s wait, hit, 1s, 3rd hit. They said he'd have a ramp up, but that level of ramp up is a bit saddening and the fact his AS got nerfed to .601 from .694, he won't benefit much from AS, yet his Q requires it unless you have the enemy CC'd for 3s+ (You have to have time to walk up and hit them after all). Even if you had in the TrinityPhreak, which is 30%, you get .18 AS. So you go from .926 to 1.106. That's not as big of a jump as it sounds, as you still have to do 3 hits at melee range without any CC. They promised ramp up and instead gave us garbage.
>Morde had always had a subpar early, but an exceptional mid to late. What? His lvl 1 has always been weak, but his 2-6 has always been reasonably strong, and 6-11 he has always been exceptionally strong. One of his current problems is that he can't build tanky enough to compensate for his lack of mobility in the late game while still remaining a threat, which the rework fixes. As for his early game now: Get a strong melee support like Leona, or a short-mid ranged high CC support like Thresh with double relic shield, start W and use it + relic shield to sustain through the harass while getting last hits and kill them when you have a level advantage. If they are playing a short ranged, or immobile ADC like Twitch or Lucian, Morde will have a very favorable matchup. Build Cutlass (Activated slow+lifesteal to stay in lane)->Tri-force->Mallet->Finish Gunblade and Defenses. He's not going to be good in all scenarios; his design doesn't fit it. Without mobility or CC, exceptionally long ranged carries or supports that can displace him (such as Alistar, Thresh, and Janna), will make fights quite difficult in lane, but it should always be hard to force him out of lane with shields and his self-healing from the W. Right now, he feels a lot like he was before the first re-work, but with significantly more, if slightly less reliable, damage. IE: Insanely overpowered in the late game, and/or in the mid game if he gets any sort of an early lead. The damage on the E is higher with a tanky/bruiser build than it was previously, and with even a minimal amount of AD, it is higher. Odds are, you have 8.5-15 from runes, and 4.55-14 from masteries, which more than compensates for the lower base damage, especially at rank 1, where it's lower base is more than compensated for by the AD ratio. It also has a 1 second shorter CD and generates 15% max shields per enemy champion hit, meaning even with a slightly lower damage value, it's DPS is higher if used on CD. You are also not mentioning that his AA range was increased from 125 to 200, giving him the longest melee AA range in the game. If you orbwalk, and have mallet+ Tri-force, or more movement speed (Take movespeed quints), or have an ally with CC, the Q is reliable enough, and you can always use flash for the 3rd hit if needed. Despite him taking the place of a Marksman in a duo lane, I don't think he's meant to be stacking damage... AP items don't provide enough in terms of defense, and he is melee with no mobility, so an AD build won't have reliable enough damage, so his teamfight role isn't to be consistent, sustained DPS like an ADC, but more along the lines of another front line bruiser that pairs well with allied CC, so rather than having the support peel for him, they will be keeping the enemies in range. Item-wise, the slow on mallet is significantly better than the slow on Rylai's considering his 200 base AA range, consistency, and him only having 1 spell that would receive the 40% slow from Rylai's, as compared to mallet always being a 40% slow. >They promised ramp up and instead gave us garbage. A 300% total AD/260%AP ratio on an ability is not garbage. It's the highest damage ability in the game by a respectable margin, and it is definitely ramping damage; if they stand next to you for the ~3 seconds (before levels or AS items; at lvl 18 with tri-force, he has just over a 1.0 attack rate) it takes for you to hit them 3 times with the ability, they die. On top of that, it's a 4 second CD at base, meaning every 6-7 seconds, somebody is dying if the enemy team stays near you. In my first game with him, I was killing literally anyone on the enemy team in 1 set of abilities+ignite, and his W is a ton of healing in teamfights, making him crazy hard to take down if he has an ally within the cast range (Don't even need them nearby for the second active). Without AP it's 390 if there are 3 champions/monsters in range. With just gunblade, Tri-force, and masteries, it's 511, or ~15% max Hp with the ~3200 that you get with mallet and tri-force. On top of that you get shields. His low AS scaling makes it the last stat you want to focus on, as it doesn't increase the reliability of his Q by enough to matter. With Bork and Tri-force, he only has a 1.25 attack rate. >they told us his power was going to be strong and his BASE stats would be his tankiness His power is strong. He can solo baron or a tower at 20 min by having the Dragon ghost tank it, regardless of his items; he get's full exp in duo lanes from last hitting (Which also boosts his support's exp if they have utility masteries), letting him snowball a lead better than most champions, and keep up in exp, or potentially take a lead, even if he falls behind. His Q does more damage than any ultimate in the game if you get all 3 hits, and just 2 hits is similar damage to a standard ability, on a 4 second cooldown. He still has the ghost ultimate to turn fights into a 6v4 off of an initial kill. If anything he's probably going to need some nerfs before hitting live, since his best-case is so absurd. Shields and a huge self-heal aren't enough for base tankiness? No champion in the game can be tanky without building for it, though mordekaiser comes closer than anyone else if he doesn't get CCed.
: Mordekaiser Change Summary & Feedback Thread
QoL change suggestion: Let him cast the W without allies around, but only be able to use it for the second active healing (Which doesn't require you to be in range of the ally anyway). Issues: The dragon ghost is obscenely tanky; Morde can solo baron at 20 minutes without taking damage by having the dragon Ghost tank it, regardless of level or items. Sure, that won't come up in every game, but if your team gets an early lead and gets the Dragon at 20min, Morde can go to baron or a tower and solo it while his team keeps the enemies occupied, and with the Dragon's AOE autos in teamfights dealing such high damage, it's going to be very hard for the other team to take a fight while it's up. With the exp lead in bot lane from last hitting (and shields+ healing to counter harass), it's pretty easy to get that lead for the mid-game, which might make it too easy to snowball an early lead. 3rd hit Q damage is a bit too high at rank 5, dealing upwards of 900 damage with minimal damage items (Total ~1300 damage). With mallet+ tri-force and CC on the team, it's also very hard to avoid, even with flash and other jumps, and with the shield generation from E, healing from W, and his ult, it's a bit too hard to focus him down. (Basically feels like original Mordekaiser in teamfights; go tank-> Still murder people in fights) He's still going to be a niche pick in ranked/draft because of how easily countered he is, but in those scenarios where he is a good pick, he's probably a bit too strong atm.
: Try it for yourself. You won't heal off of any of the three spells. It procs Life Steal for some reason.
> [{quoted}](name=PBE Zair Umbras,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=eQ7xKaFI,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-08-05T11:07:11.097+0000) > > Try it for yourself. You won't heal off of any of the three spells. It procs Life Steal for some reason. The basic attack part of it has lifesteal, just like every other "next hit" ability in the game. The magic damage doesn't proc lifesteal.
: Mordekaiser's Q Feedback
1. Yeah, the animation thing needs to be fixed. Also it seems to bug sometimes and stop further Autos until you move after the first hit. The first hit does proc sheen. It was probably just on CD because you used E or W first and hit them before activating the Q. 2. Eh, If you get mallet and tri-force, it's pretty easy to hit all 3. You should get Gunblade as well, so another ranged 40% slow to gap close, and with the third hit dealing ~900 damage with just those 3 items for damage, it's pretty reasonable for it not to be fully reliable. Hit twice on minions->Flash AA the carry, E+Gunblade->Ignite->Ult is more than enough to kill them if they don't have QSS or banshees. 3. Yeah, it should proc spellvamp, though maybe at 1/3, because it does so much total damage E damage is higher overall now. Just base AD scaling puts it to about where it was before, and if you are going a bruiser-tank build to capitalize on his crazy high base AD with tri-force, it still does VERY high damage. His late game is so strong right now that I would be really hesitant to buff him at all. If they make his Q more reliable, they would need to nerf it's damage.
Rioter Comments
: While I agree with the first part of your post, part of Kalista's passive is the total absence of orbwalking.
Or you can look at it as a massive buff to her orbwalking once you get some attack speed... The effective mobility gain from the ability is significant with just Berserkers Greaves and PD if you consistently jump in the same direction and auto at targets opposite from the target you are closing in on. It's similar to using Yasuo E to dash through minion waves to gap close to the target. The only problems I have with her passive are that it is difficult to get used to initially, and players with low APM probably won't be able to use it effectively. @OP: You can prevent subsequent attacks by issuing a move command during the dash, and not stopping movement until you wish to auto again. They probably made her automatically re-target the enemy after dashing with her passive to improve the ease of using it to kite/orbwalk. If you A-click you will auto-target hostile enemies within your range of vision regardless of whether or not you want to attack them or have the "don't auto target" selection, though according to another post, stop commands aren't preventing autos right now, so the option probably isn't either.
: It's supposed to be this way. The minion/monster is meant to serve its functionality as a projectile even if it's a killing blow.
> It's supposed to be this way. The minion/monster is meant to serve its functionality as a projectile even if it's a killing blow. they could at least make the smite damage happen once the minion finishes it's functionality as a projectile instead of wasting a potentially important cooldown.
: Dragon has a buff called 'Ancient Grudge' in which Dragon deals more damage to teams that have slain Dragons in the past that we'll be testing as this isn't the first time this sentiment has been expressed (both internally and externally.)
> Dragon has a buff called 'Ancient Grudge' in which Dragon deals more damage to teams that have slain Dragons in the past that we'll be testing as this isn't the first time this sentiment has been expressed (both internally and externally.) May want to also consider reducing (non-smite) damage dealt to the dragon by a small % for teams with stacks as well (something like 3-5%/stack to a maximum of 15-25%) to slow down dragon taking in the mid-late game when people have their damage items and give a bit more time for a team that is behind on dragons to react.
: "The trap change is unnecessary, though it doesn't really change much either." lolololololol. dude really? no..... that change is necessary, the point of {{champion:76}} 's reworked W in human form is to be spammable and if the cooldown at rank 1 is 17 seconds, it's not exactly spammable by any means and lowering it to 13 seconds won't make it spammable either but does increase the availability of the her w and allow her to lay more traps...
Laying more traps =/= having them land when you want them to. They still have the delay before marking a target, and if you aren't nearby when they are stepped on, you don't get anything out of it except a small amount of damage. ie: it doesn't change much, since players weren't using it on CD anyway unless they had blue buff in lane. The CD is still to long for it to be spammable as you seem to think, and it still has a mana cost. If you spend all of your mana early on traps, you won't be able to throw as many spears, which have a much higher reward and are more reliable when you need them, especially after the speed/width buff.
: "The reset on cougar cooldown after landing a spear/having a trap procs would be more of a feel/QoL change, since it would allow you to pounce->spear-> cougar form-> pounce as soon as the CD came back up."i think u men pounce-> human form-> spear -> cougar form -> pounce lol.
I figured that was implied. As it is, that is just a QoL change, not really that big a deal, since it doesn't reset the pounce/swipe/takedown CDs, which are all longer than the cooldown of cougar form.
: "Spears can visually go through champions on live and not hit, so a small missile width increase would make sense. Also, they are almost impossible to land against competent opponents that make any attempt to dodge them, because of how tiny the current missile is." impossible? not when u're faker lol....
Point was that if you throw a spear at a champions current location/direction of movement, they barely have to move to dodge it on live as it is currently. Notice that said ALMOST impossible against competent opponents. Not completely impossible; they can be landed, it's just way more difficult than it should be, especially with her kit requiring you to land them for maximum damage in cougar form.
: In my opinion Nidalee is nice after the change in 4.10 She really doesn't need any buffs or nerfs Can I ask you the meaning of this future change?
> In my opinion Nidalee is nice after the change in 4.10 > > She really doesn't need any buffs or nerfs > > Can I ask you the meaning of this future change? Spears can visually go through champions on live and not hit, so a small missile width increase would make sense. Also, they are almost impossible to land against competent opponents that make any attempt to dodge them, because of how tiny the current missile is. The reset on cougar cooldown after landing a spear/having a trap proc would be more of a feel/QoL change, since it would allow you to pounce->spear-> cougar form-> pounce as soon as the CD came back up. The trap change is unnecessary, though it doesn't really change much either.
: [Feedback & Suggestion] Down with the Numbers! - Jungle Buff Timers
Doubt it would need the 1 minute ticks; just having it slowly fill throughout the respawn time would work. That said, amazing idea if riot ever decides to implement it.
: Let's talk about reworked Maokai
They probably should have done the item change first and tested the kit with that before testing any champion changes. It's possible (and reasonably likely), that Maok would be fine without a rework after SoTEG change. That said, the champion changes look fine, with the exception of the W range. It should be at least 550, probably 600, so he can engage on opponents and not be easily kited late game by the longer ranged ADCs. (still haven't tseted it in game yet, but that's the main issue I see with it currently). Making it a skill shot and keeping the current range would make sense, since then at least there would be a way to react to his ganks other than getting out of his W range before he can use it, or flashing/dashing/blinking under tower when they don't have enough damage to kill you in a dive. On that note: The soteg change needs to be something along the lines of a better version of Bladed armor or some kind of AOE burn on jungle camps, because there isn't anything else that would make the item strong on tank junglers, but not on assassin junglers who already have good clear speeds.
: It could be that they have bigger plans for her and till then, they will reduce her power so that she won't be a problem. A champ as strong as she is, will still be good with such a nerf. And the E base dmg is still pretty good. And I would call it a weakness when she needs 1-2 sec longer to kill someone or to push. Now her R and W may not be enough to always kite and kill melee champs. I don't know what their plans are, but ATM, every nerf that brings her down from that OP status is needed.
> It could be that they have bigger plans for her and till then, they will reduce her power so that she won't be a problem. > > A champ as strong as she is, will still be good with such a nerf. And the E base dmg is still pretty good. > > And I would call it a weakness when she needs 1-2 sec longer to kill someone or to push. Now her R and W may not be enough to always kite and kill melee champs. > > I don't know what their plans are, but ATM, every nerf that brings her down from that OP status is needed. Try her against bots; AP kayle is going to be trash after that nerf... For some reason, riot refuses to touch the ult, which is the core of every issue with Kayle; it needs a rework; complete immunity without becoming untargetable is way too powerful in this game, even if the duration is short. A damage reduction, heal, buff, or any combination thereof would keep the concept of her ult the same, but it wouldn't be able to save someone from death when they are stun locked and at 10 HP for the duration guaranteed. Her damage needed to go down, but not by that much. A .1 ratio nerf to the E would be enough; .2 neuters her damage if she is going AP, and the AP auto attacker with AOE is what defines Kayle now... Her sustained damage was reduced by ~1/3 with a full build, which is ridiculous. It's actually better to go AD than AP with the .2 ratio. Besides, she wasn't THAT OP before, a small nerf would have been enough. This goes beyond making her not OP anymore; she's going to be way below par.
: The Champ, Jax
They needed to reduce his health/lvl a bit; it was higher than it should have been. That said, a better nerf would probably have been a damage reduction on his ult procs and a nerf to his passive in the later stages of the game (should cap at 10%/stack instead of 14% imo, 84% attack speed from a passive when you have an ability that deals damage every 3rd hit is excessively powerful) to reduce his scaling. Something like -20 damage on his ult would also be fair, since his leap-> empower+ ult proc combo deals too much damage in the early stages of the game. Chunking people for 1/3 of their HP every 10 seconds or so if he is ahead makes him near impossible to lane against at that point. He is already feast or famine in normal play(and really not that strong unless his lane opponent doesn't know how to deal with him), and the current change will just magnify that (which appeared to be Riot's intention). He is so powerful for Pros because they don't lane as much and roaming is more common with a rush for global gold, which keeps him in the game better than trying to farm in a lane that he can't win. In normal play you don't have that; either he gets fed, feeds, or just doesn't get any farm and is close to useless, so a change to reduce his late game scaling would be better than the current nerf. Personally, I haven't had any issues with Jax in normal/soloqueue games unless someone else is laning against him and feeds. Though, a champion getting fed always makes them problematic; Jax's scaling just makes him a bit more so.
: [Maokai] – Twisted Advance's damage is off
Damage is capped correctly. SoTEG increases damage by 30% after the cap has been taken into account. 390 damage is exactly what it should do unless you have another % damage increase. With that much health, it would be doing ~450 damage with SoTEG if it wasn't capped.
: Range Indicator Missing on Auto-Smart Cast Skills

Asamu

Level 30 (PBE)
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