: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: PROJECT: Zed
My only complaints are that the blades on his arms (katars?) are too thick, they don't look like weapons at all. Compare them with base skin or shockblaze, they are way too thick. My suggestion would be to experiment trimming them either on the edges or in the whole katar, whatever looks better. Make it look like a real blade, it will be so much cooler. The shurikens would look cooler with some trimming on the edges too (not in the whole shuriken because it would make them harder to see when you throw the skillshot), but the katars are the biggest issue. Along with the blade thickness, the colors are also a bit weird as other have already said. My suggestion would be to make them slightly darker overall to benefit more Zed's oppressive presence. I think it is also worth experimenting with a bright silver on the very edges of the blades so when people see it they get that feeling of "this is a lethal weapon". Right now I look at it and it feels like an action figure weapon, but I guess the thickness does a lot for that too. Anyway, I hope you at least experiment with my suggestions. I think the skin can be amazing if you try to make it look more like a hi-tech suit designed for an assassin. The model overall is good but some details end up leaving the same problem as SKT Zed: you lose that appearance of a dark and extremely skilled assassin.
: You have a funny way of asking for downvotes, dude ;)
I don't remember asking for upvotes. If you read carefully you will notice that the question is far from that.
Rioter Comments
: ^^ this! I think what you fail to realize is that the raptor buff only works one time then it falls off. If your team is placing 4 - 6 wards at all times which is a good average, then raptor can only help remove one of them. Once the true sight activates the buff is gone. Spread out the wards and place plenty of them and this buff is not OP.
I think it is pretty clear from my OP that I know the buff is lost after a ward is spotted. Now what I think everyone fails to see is that this buff doesn't only gives you the ability to sweep a ward, it gives you information over huge areas of whether there are wards or not. "Buy more wards" is just a crutch to try and "counterplay" the OP buff. In the current state of the game you already need to invest a lot of money into vision if you want to feel somewhat safe from junglers like Lee Sin and Jarvan. If you lose vision of a single ward, you already lose pressure on the map, then the best thing you could do is always buy an extra ward and put it at the Raptor camp, which leads to the problem I already addressed in other here.
: I wouldn't call raptor OP compared to the rest... Poison on everyone that attacks? Dayum MASSIVE TRUE damage to towers Owch WARD the entire quadrant of JUNGLE... THAT PINGS AND CAN'T BE DESTROYED? razor beak lasts too long, make its 30secs and that way they'll have 30s without vision and they'll have to consistantly smite... other wise your just complaining at shadows AND DON'T START on how the jungle is OP, it isn't you get less exp than Solo Laners and your sustain is often low if you're a fighter. this ain't league of legends, its league of tradeoffs, i mean DRAAAAVEN.
I never said the jungle is OP. However typing all those things on caps makes me think that you are totally biased towards it. That buff is more impactul than the others at what it does. Which means aggressive ganking junglers still have the advantage in the meta game, which is contrary to Riot's objectives. Making it last 30 seconds doesn't solve the issue. If you are a blue side jungler, you can get the buff, check if there are wards in the mid bottom brush, river brush, Raptor brush and then head to bot lane tribush. Don't forget that very oftenly wards are placed outside brushes, in the pathing of the jungle, these will be spotted as well. That is too much. You should choose which of these places you want to check whether there is a ward or not, but no be able to walk to all of them until you find the ward. Too much power. Also the 30 seconds thing will automatically make vision slightly more predictable based on the map layout. Blue side jungler can pressure bot lane more, purple side can pressure top lane more. This narrows the possibilities for a jungler, which in contrast with my suggestion means more power and less choices to make, which is a very old recipe for something OP.
: If you really want to deny them the Raptor vision, you could drop a trinket ward on their raptors consistently. This would consistently break the raptor effect instantly, for a very low priced ward overall.
You can't expect someone to always ward there before the jungler takes the buff. Not only you need to do it before he takes it, but you also can only ward there if you have lane pressure and there is no danger in getting caught while doing it. Even if you could, that just means you lose your trinket for the buff, which means you still lose vision. This also will be another snowball symptom, because the team ahead can more easily ward or even steal enemy Raptor. In the end it means that it is too hard and not really rewarding to do that.
: Part of the reason they did that is because of how much vision has snowballed since S4 with all the new jungle vision objects. I do agree raptors last a bit TOOO long, but the idea of it is sound considering how much undeniable vision now exist as well in the shrines.
This will only make vision snowball harder because the team ahead will be able to freely walk around checking for wards with the Raptor buff, the team behind won't.
Rioter Comments
: This. Also, since you guys are messing with Vlad at the moment, can you guys take a look at Blood Lord Vlad's height? He's incredibly tiny, especially next to everyone new/reworked. Anytime you find a moment to look into that (probably not this patch cycle qq) would be awesome because he's less of a blood lord and more of a blood mite.
This. Also other Vlad skins need to be looked into as well. Marquis Vladimir is EVEN smaller than Blood Lord. It is pretty ridiculous if you compare it to any other model in the game. Riot pls.
: Why some nerfs are huge and others are done slowly?
Zed has being nerfed whole season. He was just fine after shadows nerf, hell even fine after many other nerfs he received. But the last one may be his rip in pieces. 1. Shadows 2. Buffs to supports like Soraka and Lulu to the point where they are viable mid 3. Buffs to Exhaust and Ignite 4. Nerfs to Botrk
: Totally agree. IE is still a problem for adc, I think it's only effective after building {{item:3046}} . totally not worth for adc to build IE for their first item. so maybe if adding some armo penetration would be better
This would make the item ridiculously op.
: Suggestion on Randuin's changes
I am not sure about what to think of this change. Considering how unjustified these nerfs were, along with the buffs to adc items, I believe Riot wants fighters to be weaker. I suppose this, along with the changes to dragon gold, could shift a bit the top lane meta, which could be nice. So I don't think discussing Randuin's makes sense, because Riot probably has no intention of buffing it back. Meh, how often they read these forums anyway...
: PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread: Soulstealer Vladimir!
I thought Vladimir would get a VU soon. So this new skin means that he won't? Well. You should at least fix the size of his model on some skins, like the Marquis Vladimir. I love this skin, but it is so small that it ends up being ugly (also he has ugly gigantic hands but no one notices this because of how small he is). This skin is probably rarely used because of this. Comparison to the new skin: http://gyazo.com/83846ed22d26b1ee3fb4d84bc7f04853
: MR per level, I feel, is a very sensitive stat. Particularly mobile champions don't really receive MR per level, and Poppy, Singed, Shen, and Mao are relatively mobile due to gap closers or just plain ol' wicked speeds. Galio's speed up is really outdated and hardly special, plus his MR per level fits with his passive and he's supposed to be somewhat of an anti-mage so it suits his character.
Why does Riven gets MR/lvl, why does Jax, Renekton, Zed, Jarvan... It has nothing to do with having a gap closing ability.
Rioter Comments
: Imo the reason vlad was so OP pre season was because of the canges to {{item:3152}} and {{item:3065}} since SV has already been retuned i this will bring vlad more in line and not so much a niche pick. {{item:3152}}
Vlad OP in pre-season? If he was OP just because of 10% cdr, then he would still be OP.
: [Planned 4.5 or 4.6] Summoner Spell and Enchantment Changes
These changes to {{item:3258}}, combined with the last {{summoner:12}} change, will only enforce even more passive top laners that just want to scale. The lane is already in a pretty boring state, maybe you should think more about this. Just imagine how Ryze is gonna be. He goes to lane with a {{item:1027}} and 2 pots. Spam all his abilities, push the lane and go buy his tear, gets back to lane immediately. Now he has pressure on the lane that no {{summoner:14}} will make up for because he already spent all his mana harassing and pushing, and he is even back with item advantage and full hp/mana. 3 minutes later his teleport will be already back. Now if he was against a strong laner and getting pressured too much, no problem, just farm a wave go back and teleport, 3 minutes and you can do it again. Now you will even buff distortion and nerf homeguard which means Teleport will be too OP over Ignite. I also don't quite understand the objective behind the buff {{summoner:6}} receives, for me it seems meaningless since it will not make people use it more often. I feel like this buff is simply for the sake of giving Ghost something, since the other 3 spells are also getting small buffs. Right now this game has way too many slows, almost every champion has a slow and this is the reason {{summoner:6}} is so bad. 7% mov. speed will not make it more useful. Give it some kind of meaningful slow resistance instead of this 7% buff and it may be more used, if you will really keep up with this change that is. I understand the need to change {{item:3258}} , however I don't believe this is the best direction. The problem with it right now is that it doesn't lower the cooldown of your spells if they are already on cooldown, thus it takes too long for the gold you spent to give you something back. If you simply made it lower the cooldown on summoners that are already on cooldown, paired with the homeguards nerf, then it would already be more used. But then, teleport is still gonna be abusable, specially with a stronger version of distortion. My question is, right now do you want to enforce these farming scaling champions into top lane?
: It will depend on how deep the expose weakness is in the tree. Having it near the top makes tanky support all that more powerful,and you have made all-in more powerful. Leona + exposed weakness + Leona passive. Also the current exposed weakness can be procd by your own spells despite how it is worded. Another idea would be giving Vampirism and Intelligence, a multiplier effect kind of like Rabadon. You get more cdr from one item on a support than on a mage.
I agree. Stronger utility masteries need to go deep in the tree because that is where the tree is weak, and that is where people are not investing points.
: The utility tree is the tree that provides indirect combat stats to the champion. While I like the idea of Expose Weakness on supports, it wouldn't make much sense in the utility tree. The utility tree is loaded with early game masteries and none of the mastery scale well late game. The utility counterpart of **Archmage **and **Warlord**, **Expanded Mind**, is pretty weak atm. Mages typical buy athene to solve their mana problems and even ranged support dont buy mana items. Even if one does buy a mana item, its doesnt help much because for every 1000 mana, you get 50,which is barely 1 spell on most champs. Change **Expanded Mind **to increase your mana regeneration by a percent.
> While I like the idea of Expose Weakness on supports, it wouldn't make much sense in the utility tree. Why not? It is an utility mastery after all. You buff the damage of your allies on certain champions. For me it makes more sense to have it in the utility tree rather than the offensive since it is basically a buff to allies, you as individual gets nothing out of it. > The utility tree is loaded with early game masteries and none of the mastery scale well late game. I don't agree. For me most of the utility masteries are pretty useless early on. The exceptions being the sustain masteries (mana, biscuit and 10% pot duration). But I do agree that at the same time they are bad late game also. > Change Expanded Mind to increase your mana regeneration by a percent. This would be a very nice change, but the utility tree itself would still be really weak. I feel like this mastery was intended only for ryze, because I don't see any other champion wanting percentage mana increase, it is really very weak as you pointed out. However right now it is not worth at all to get utility points as Ryze, so the mastery is probably completely unused.
Rioter Comments
: There is also the problem with the utility tree. With the new s4 masteries,the top tree are for early game and the bottom of the tree is for late game. While it is pretty true for the offensive and defensive, it doesn't really apply to the utility tree. 5% ms out of combat doesn't even scale late game(it also suffers from dimenishing returns). The melee version of bandit made sense because there will be more teamfights and potential assist, while the ranged version only works well in laning.
> There is also the problem with the utility tree. With the new s4 masteries,the top tree are for early game and the bottom of the tree is for late game. While it is pretty true for the offensive and defensive, it doesn't really apply to the utility tree. I agree. The deep utility tree is not late game at all. All you get from it is a bit of cdr, the mov speed (which is nice but not awesome) and miserably small amount of extra gold. But if you invest in defense, not only you will wreck your lane if you are a tanky agressive support, but you will also be much more tanky in late game team fights. > 5% ms out of combat doesn't even scale late game(it also suffers from dimenishing returns). The melee version of bandit made sense because there will be more teamfights and potential assist, while the ranged version only works well in laning. I do agree in parts with the mov. speed. Currently it is not that great, but with a rework in the utility tree, it could fit very well. About the bandit mastery, it really depends on the match. In a match with a lot of kills, like what generally happens in solo queue, it is much stronger. However in competitive games its value drops significantly.
: I think that the biggest problems are that: * the final point of utility is absolutely terrible (5% mobility when out of combat) compared to Offense's +3% increase in damage and Defense's 15% reduction in Crowd control effects * almost all of the utility masteries are designed for supports and almost none of them are cost-efficient when compared to similar investments into the other trees. Also, given that supports don't have to rely on Gold per 5 Quints anymore, the greed mastery is completely unnecessary when the Bandit mastery should in theory occupy the same niche. * the only masteries most champions would want from the utility tree are in the first 9 points, so it's almost never worth it to go higher than 9 points into utility. Honestly, I think that the utility tree needs to be redesigned (if not completely rebalanced) so that it can compete with the other trees. Otherwise, I seriously don't think it would be possible to rebalance defensive/all-in supports without seriously nerfing their stats and itemization.
I agree, it should be completely redesigned. A well thought utility tree could solve all the problems with tanky supports being dominant, no need to nerf doran's shield and such. Maybe we should create a thread to discuss the whole tree instead of a single mastery, it would get more attention. I think I will write a well elaborated text and post a new thread in a while. The question is, does Riot have the intention of changing the whole tree in mid season?
: [Buff Bandit Mastery] This mastery is so bad on Ranged Supports
Am I the only one that thinks the deep utility tree is weak? I don't play support a lot, but when I do I only put 9 points into utility because I think the strongest masteries of this tree are the mana regen (or movspd if you dont need mana), summoner cd and the biscuit/health enhancement. I honestly don't think it is worth to use more 12 points into this tree just to get that very small income of gold. You just lose too much offense/defense and don't get enough back. If you are a tanky support, you will be losing the 1% missing hp regen, 13 armor, 6 mr and a bit of tenacity. If you are a ranged/poke support, you will be losing 4 ad and 6 ap at level 1, and there is also the scaling ad/ap masteries.
: New Lich Bane and Sona
I don't see why Riot would want to buff AP Sona. They probably want her to stay as a support.
: Well, I think that indeed it's a nerf to AP {{champion:81}} . I don't like the changes because his q was the one who gave you more kitablity and obviously burst. Still, even if it gets nerfed, I don't see why you wouldn't rush it. It's like {{champion:67}} and {{item:3153}} . Or {{champion:22}} and {{item:3031}} . It's not like they're not viable without that items. But they just synergize. Anyway, apart from that. If you nerf {{item:3100}} , wouldn't it be logical to nerf {{item:3078}} ? Some champions also rush it. However, the only problem I see to lich bane isn't the damage. The only part I didn't like is that it can be applied to towers, that seemed unfair to me from the very beggining. So, I think that if you're going to nerf {{item:3100}} , maybe the base scaling should be different. (Like, some champs are going to make more damage for free)
Why would Trinity Force be nerfed? It is already weaker than PD in late game for ad carries. Trinity Force scales from base ad, while Lich Bane scales from your AP. In average Base Damage floats around 100, while AP carries have between 600-700 AP in late game.
: Tentative 4.4 Lich Bane changes
Why are you making it scale off of base ad? Isn't it more clear to make it scale with levels like Sunfire Cape? It would be easier for players to evaluate the item in this fashion. What about something like: > 35 + (2.5 per level) + 50% AP I know scaling with base ad will favor champions with higher values of that stat, however since the ratio is considerably small (75%) I believe the difference is not gonna be significant. As I stated in another thread: > The difference in damage of a Lich Bane proc at level 18 between the highest base ad (skarner with 129.7) and the lowest base ad (Thresh with 85.6) is going to be 33 damage, minus resistances it is going to be around 20 damage. Remember, this is at level 18 and it is between the lowest and highest base ads in the game, at early levels the difference is going to be even smaller. And the difference gets even smaller if you pick random champions.
: The Lich bane change modifies dozens of playstyles because it can be abused in two different ways: heavy burst to champions and smashing structures. Instead of completely destroying the item and playstyles why not offer counterplay to the AP burst via buffs to Maw or Hexdrinker by making the shield scale with AD? Lich bane procs to structures could then be reduced or eliminated.
You forgot that on top of the burst it also increased the DPS of any AP carry to the roofs. Malmortius can't counter that, you would need to build even more burst to be able to kill the ap carry before he kills you.
: [Feedback] LichBane and the campions that use it.
I don't see how Riot could buff Akali and Diana without making them problematic champions again. Even right now they snowball really hard in mid lane when they get a lead because of how constantly they can all in after level 6, and how strong their roam is. Lich Bane is pretty cheesy on Akali. Sure it does give her a huge burst, but it also makes her even more vulnerable both in lane and in teamfights. So I don't think it is really a core item on her, it is likely a last item if you don't need more defense. Lich Bane on Diana is better, however I remember the times where Diana players would go Abyssal + Zhonyas and wreck everybody, so even without Lich Bane she was still very problematic. My point is that the nerfs to Lich Bane are not necessarily indirect nerfs which justify buffs, there are other items that can be just as effective at snowballing. If you buff Diana or Akali right now with the argument that Lich Bane lost 25% of its AP ratio, then these two champions could simply buy other items.
: I am concerned that, with this change, it will lose too much of it's power. Lichbane has always been a strong item on any AP carry if you need to push. For example: Xerath is a damn strong pusher. 2 long range, low cd waveclear. But he cannot really hurt towers much by himself. Buying Lichbane is then optimal if your team needs you to push(And with many Xerath games I had, this won us the game). Lichbane is generally a meh purchase for Xerath, but it helps both in duels and pushing scenario's. But with this change, I fear the item could lose a bit too much power for such AP carries. But I am not quite sure so far. Overall, though, it is the correct direction. Lichbane was a way too easily snowball a game out of control with just a few kills because it scaled so damn good with gold. If you are a strong lichbane user(Like Fizz or Twisted Fate), this applies double. For the base AD scaling: I would also like to see a scaling value instead of a base AD scaling. Would simply make Lichbane more consistent - and consistency is not a bad thing. For other spellblade items, the Base AD scalings are meaningful enough to really create a gap in damage output and thus, they define the intended champions quite well(Skarner, for example). But for Lichbane, with such a low scaling, it really feels unnecessary.
It will surely lose a lot of its power, but I think it will still be very strong on Fizz and TF. The problem with Lich Bane is that is was too strong in terms of raw power. So strong that you could get it on any kind of AP carry, as you mentioned. As long as you had 500+ AP you could buy and it would work even when the item didn't fit the champion kit. Compare it to others non-core AP items like Rilays or DFG. These items are strong, but only in certain situations and with champions that synergizes with them. In my point of view Lich Bane is suited for short range single target burst AP's, but since its power scaled so ridiculously well, even long range or AoE AP's could buy it in late game and it would still work. For this reason I would say that I agree with the nerf. Basically an item that is good even when it doesn't synergyzes with the champion it is being used on is probably an OP item. It never made much sense to me, seeing Lux, Ziggs, Orianna, etc, having success with Lich Bane. These champions were supposed to stay as safe as possible, just poking the enemy team with their spells, when a fight breaks they were supposed to try and do as much AoE damage as they can. Liandry's probably always was a much better option to synergize with their kit. However since Lich Bane was so broken, these champions could sacrifice a bit of their poke and AoE to get a huge amount of burst and DPS. They could melt tanks diving them in like two rotations of spells, or could become tower killing machines, or if a squishy ever got caught in their range they would likely die. My point is that they have the intention of making the item less of a "universally viable item for AP's". They want to narrow it down to the likes of Fizz I believe. Probably they noticed that the item was problematic when Lulu became a viable mid laner and part of that was Lich Bane.
: I actually do like the scaling by level idea, because Riot said themselves that they wanted to slowdown the early game snowballing, hence the first blood and turret gold changes.
This idea was merely to make it more clear of what stats the item gives to you. 35 + (2.5 per level) is similar to what you will get for 75% of your base ad.
: Fear movement effects new changes good or bad?
I know this change made Nocturne so weak. Seriously, it takes waaay too much time to channel for such a weak cc. I don't play Fiddle and Shaco, but I can see it being pretty dumb to fear somebody and just see them running away from boxes or your ult/drain. But at least their fear is instant, right? I understand their concern in trying to make the game less random, however this change was too hasty and careless. My suggestion is that fears should make the feared champion choose randomly a direction to run to and simply stick to that direction, and not change randomly so that team mates will miss skill shots and everything. It would not be as random as the old fear, but not as deterministic and weak as the current fear.
: Changes to Lichbane
Just clarifying that it is not **total AD** but **base AD**. I do agree that the base AD thing is silly. It just makes it harder for players to evaluate the item. If they wanted to make the item scale as game goes by, they should just put a value that scales with level, just like Sunfire Cape. The only difference between scaling with level and scaling with base ad is that it will be slightly stronger on champions with higher base ad, but the difference is going to be really minimal. The difference in damage of a Lich Bane proc **at level 18** between the **highest** base ad (skarner with 129.7) and the **lowest** base ad (Thresh with 85.6) is going to be 33 damage, minus resistances it is going to be around 20 damage. Remember, this is at level 18 and it is between the lowest and highest base ads in the game, at early levels the difference is going to be even smaller. And the difference gets even smaller if you pick random champions. They should make it like this: > *35 + (2.5 per level) + 50% AP*
: I believe Jax's Counterstrike is supposed to block only basic attacks.This would mean ADDITIONAL BONUS damage would still be dealt even if the basic attack should be blocked. In case of Nasus, Garen,Wukong and Renekton, Zed, Shen and Xin the spell description specifically mentions "deals additional bonus damage" which would mean only this damage should be applied while the damage from the basic attach is dodged. In case of Shyvana or Yi, the spell/passive is considered as an extra Basic attack much like Lucien's passive and as such, should be dodged. I haven't tested this out yet. But i have noticed some inconsistencies while jungling him. Needs some looking into.
For me it would make more sense if he dodged both the basic attack and the extra damage from abilities/items/buffs, just like Fiora and Pantheon do. If you think about it, how can he be affected by the extra effects of an attack if he was not even hit in the first place? But of course it is up to Riot to decide what it can and cannot dodge. Hopefully this gets some attention real soon. I wish that at least there was some kind of consistency in this. It is really bad to be indecisive during a game because you haven't tested or memorized all the particular cases of the ability.
Rioter Comments
: i agree some chanmpions need that hp and hp regen like u said and without it they will lose the early game phase. Leaving the doran shield the way it was is good enough. I dont know who gave the idea to nerf it, but honestly the doran shield was good the way it was.
They nerfed it because of bot lane matchups. Honestly I think it was deserved but they need to reassess things in top and mid lane. What happens when you nerf early game defense is that aggressive champions immediately get buffed. This is an indirect buff to champions with strong harass/presence in lane (leblanc, syndra, kennen), while it is a nerf to champions who need to play more passive (akali, vlad). If you are a doran's shield user and you get counter picked now, you are gonna suffer. My primary concern is health based champions simply because they will have no viable option to start with for their regen. But then there is also strong harassing champions Vs weak laners. Syndra, Leblanc, Cassiopeia, how are you gonna deal with these champions when you play Zed, Akali...? It was already hard enough with the doran's shield in the state it was.
: I think it would be dangerous to come out with a tanky spell vamp item since that's where all the damage on tanks comes from and it could give them too much sustain, but I question for whom new WotA is meant to be for? Spellvamp is traditionally picked up by manaless champions because of their ability to spam spells or because they use health as a cost instead of mana, so who it supposed to help? If it had max mana on it I would assume it was for dps mages like Karth or Ryze but as it stands I havent found a champ that needs both lifesteal and mp5
Yeah. Swain, Ryze and Karthus all could use this item, but it doesn't give a good mana pool or a huge teamfight mana regen (like athenes passive) thus there are much better options. They should replace that mp5 for hp5 or even put in a small amount of ap, or 5% cdr... I don't know, anything other than mana regen. lol It is completely pointless, almost like as if they want the item to be seen as cost efficient even thou there is a useless stat on it.
Rioter Comments
: High mobility in this game is already ridiculous. When I'm opting in for ghostblade because I need to be in X, Y, Z, and C,D location all at the same time its a bit ridiculous. Team fights are playing into ridiculous car chase scenes. And for the most part, if your champion can't keep up its gg. I think a mobility decrease would be a bit more sound than a buff to the effectiveness of mobility. Popping ghost, flash, plus ghostblade is just plain ridiculous. If you buff stuff like this or add a removal of slows to it, or add tenacity to it, you're asking for a really messed up 1 sided team pick later on. Especially itemization wise. In the current state of things since there are slows chucked around like candy. People are opting in for more high mobility champs, and more high mobility item/skill sets. That'd be fine, if it was just high mobility items/skill sets, but with both on....seriously? Somethings gotta give at some point. And honestly if it means both so be it. But at the same time, the slows are the only reason we got here in the first place.
> I think a mobility decrease would be a bit more sound than a buff to the effectiveness of mobility. Popping ghost, flash, plus ghostblade is just plain ridiculous. I feel like you are talking about the mobility creep. I don't think nerfing "effectiveness" of mobility will help much. Sure, if you make gapclosers all weak then we may see an end to the mobility creep, however with all the slows present in the game the meta will turn into a "long range creep" where mostly champions with ranged abilities are gonna be viable. Why? Because since mobility sucks, being ranged, slowing, cc'ing and kiting will be the new op. Karma will be god tier. I don't think my suggestion would intensify the mobility creep, actually it would make immobile champions more viable. Of course it has to be balanced to not get to the point where any melee's are gonna be picking ghost simply because they are unstoppable with it. There is a difference between slow resistance and olaf ult.
: Potential Vel'Koz Auto-Attack Bug
Basic attacks against turrets scale with your champion base attack damage + the greater between your bonus attack damage and 40% of your AP.
: Ghost will catch a person with flash if they don't wall jump or you get slowed. I will not jungle without it. Boots of swiftness help reduce the slows. If they put a slow resist it would outclass every other sum. spell. I did like it much more when I could increase it to 35% speed boost though
> Ghost will catch a person with flash if they don't wall jump or you get slowed. That is the point of using Ghost. To trade the instant mobility of Flash for more mobility over the duration of Ghost. And the slow part is important because currently there is rarely any case where Ghost is good to be used simply because you can shut it down with the most common cc in the game, while there is absolutely no counterplay to Flash. Even with this change Flash will still have many advantages over Ghost.
: It needs to just remove slows when first popped, but slows can be reapplied over the duration. Then it becomes a tactical decision of when you use ghost, and it's not so broken that you can stack other anti-slow items, or completely ignore slows altogether.
I guess it could work. But I don't know if the Ghost pick rate would increase that much. Low mobility champions like Vlad and Mordekaiser would still prefer Flash, but Tanks with some mobility maybe would consider picking Ghost.
: Ghost is great, you've just gotta know how to use it right. Sure it might not be so applicable in team fights, but what about before the team fight, what about after it? Before a team fight Ghost is great for catching an enemy champion off guard, or out of position. After team fights, ghost can be used to more easily catch up to any fleeing leftovers that are hurting and want to recall. Conversely, it can be used to give you a better chance at running from a failed team fight, if you start to split, and pop ghost, if you're the tank, or say, Udyr Jungle, you'll be gone in no time, and out of any CC's range.
I agree. There are situations where it is great to have Ghost, however there are many more situations where Flash is better, more effective. I believe Riot intention was to make it more widely usable as a main mobility spell, make it so that Ghost is viable and picked more frequently. And my point of view in this thread is that what makes Ghost not so viable is the amount of slows we have in the game, it is easy to shutdown the use of Ghost with some slows, or at least make it much less effective than Flash is.
: One could optimize with Boots of Swiftness+the slow reducing mastery. One could reach rather high values like this. Or one goes for something "heavier" to balance Ghost and Flash - as Flash is just dominating the game totally. A heavy slow reduction, like 50%, could be what is needed - strong and useful on it's own and can go up to 85% with boots and masteries. Could be OP as hell, too - but overall, an interesting point for a buff.
I agree. It has to be a strong and impactful slow resistance if it will contender with flash. 50% sounds like a good number to start. Of course there is the chance that this will make some champions straight up OP, then those champions or the spell iself would need some tweaking, or maybe something crazy could happen like the meta shifting around this change with new items to counterbalance, etc... Many things could happen and it is really all in Riot's hand to choose the direction they want it to take. I honestly can't really think much about how this would change the game since there is barely any kind of slow resistances to be taken as experience. The only thing that worries me is how harder it will get to peel for ad carries. Maybe the resistance could gradually go down after some seconds (3~5) to make it not so hard to peel. As I said before, hope that a Rioter comes here any time to give us an opinion.
: I could agree if they made all the current cc on you go away or making to resistant to them for a short duration... but giving it olaf ultimate and a speed boost would make it too op..
The problem with giving resistances to any form of cc is that people with merc treads and Tenacious mastery will likely turn Ghost into an Olaf Ultimate with Mov speed boost. This is why I suggested making it resistant to slows, that would already be really strong since slows are way too frequent and powerful in the game right now.
: A lot of masteries seem to do things for synergy. In addition, S2 and S3 had masteries that changed/buffed Summoner Spell effects. I feel like that was a decent approach, although it was kind of hard to balance without making a good deal of it entirely invisible. But how about instead of sacrificing Masteries for other Masteries, we implemented those Summoner Spell-changing masteries onto current masteries? This way, there would be more flexibility in tweaking numbers. So, for example, Swiftness could buff Ghost in some way, while some other thing made it worse, and then Fleet of Foot could give a passive bonus when Ghost is not up, or something.
I think Riot doesn't want masteries interacting with summoner spells anymore.
: I could see carries taking ghost + flash, but at the same time that means that supports with exhaust would directly counteract ghosting, since I don't believe exhaust can be cleansed. So while ghost + flash could be extremely powerful late game, you'd still need to get it to late game for it to matter, opening the adc up to getting destroyed by the offensive summoner spells. That being said, it could easily be tuned to not be insufferable to play against, either by changing how the speed boost works, how much speed is granted, what kind of things the cleanse works on, and what counteracts the cleanse.
Cleanse removes all Summoner Spells debuffs, including exhaust and ignite (grievous wounds from ignite is not removed I think, but the true damage DoT is). Your idea is still interesting, but surely the cleanse would have to be tuned down. In the end I think the direction the changes will take depend on how Riot wants Ghost to be used. I hope a Rioter comes here to talk with us about these ideas, or maybe tell us if they still plan on changing summoner spells.
: Vladimir health, gameplay and future
I still play top lane Vlad. I think he is strong, you can carry games with him. Maybe the Dorans Shield nerf will make his already risky early game too risky, but for now he is ok. I don't know about competitive play, but I can consistently carry solo queue games with him. His biggest weakness right now is his lack of mobility, but you can get around with flash and good team play. Do you think he is too weak right now? Why?
: Tbh, I would love this. It'd need some tuning to make it not be OP on certain characters, but I'd dig it. So what about combining Cleanse and Ghost? Give ghost the immediate effect of cleanse to remove cc, but without the lingering tenacity. It'd make it into a really powerful repositioning spell, so the cooldown and the duration would have to be examined, but I imagine it'd be a serious contender against flash.
Yes. The slow resistance could be OP. But it could also just make Ghost a strong and viable contender to Flash. Sometimes just because something is strong it doesn't mean it is OP. Of course champions that make a good use of Ghost would be automatically buffed with this change, but hey, these champions are rarely played already. The most popular Ghost user right now is probably Olaf, and I agree that he will get stronger with this change, but not that stronger I guess since generally Olaf already uses Ghost and Ult at the same time, so very frequently the Olaf will not be using the Ghost slow resistance. About combining Cleanse and Ghost. It is an nteresting idea to think about and debate. It could be the case where ad carries would start to pick Ghost + Flash and it would be too hard to get to them late game. Just imagine a Vayne. Maybe that is too much protection? It really depends on what Riot's intention is with the spell. Since it gives you more mobility but also requires more time than Flash, I always thought of Ghost as a Spell to allow you to stick to targets, even against high mobility targets like Ezreal. Then it was generally picked by melee or low range champions that had poor mobility, so the sustained mobility would greatly help them if not for the easy counterplay that we have nowadays. With your suggestion even mobile champions would pick it when they felt like they needed extra protection.
: Ghost is definitely not rarely used. Olaf, singed, tryn, hecarim pretty much always take ghost.
See: http://lkcss.zamimg.com/charts?region=all&type=spell-popularity&range=daily&map=sr&queue=normal I still think it is rarely used. But you are right about the champion you mentioned, they always use ghost and, except for the cc immune Olaf, they all suffer from the same problem I mentioned when in teamfights. Slows are too strong against them.
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