: Sona Learnings
Just curious, have you played Blizzard's Overwatch? There is a hero there named Lucio who basically preforms the same job as Sona being a aura bot but Lucio feels much more impact. I know the games are pretty different, but there might be something you can bring over to Sona. I agree, that some of the changes of the PBE should make Sona feel more impactful, but would she actually be more impactful? Personally, I think the best way to make Sona's abilities feel more impactful is to remove the CC on Crescendo. Instead, of stunning enemies in front of her, activating Crescendo would refresh all of Sona's CD's and significantly amplify all of her aura's for X period of time. Activating Crescendo while Q is active would guarantee a critical hit or % damage increase on next auto/ability in addition to it's current effects. Activating Crescendo while W is active would heal and shield all allies in a large radius. And using Crescendo in tandem with E would grant a large amount of movement speed and remove CC from nearby allies. Or maybe if that's too powerful limit Crescendo's enhancement's to the next 2 aura's that Sona casts. Or, have Crescendo function like an Anivia/Swain ult where you can toggle it on and off. The longer Sona's Crescendo plays, the stronger the effects become, but the mana drain would also increase. Just some ideas.
: Soraka Rework Feedback Thread
I can't quite put my finger on why, but new Soraka just isn't fun to play. All of her abilities definitely feel rewarding, but she just doesn't feel fun. Maybe it's the new Starcall. Having the time to impact change based on how far the ability is cast in relation to yourself is adds a steep learning curve for a champ that use to be easy to pick up and play. Personally, I would prefer for a normalized impact time in exchange for reduced values on the ability. Also, if Soraka is calling down stars from the heavens, why does her position in relation to the target affects impact time? Touch of the Cosmos feels weak and not being able to reliably heal myself makes Soraka feel really squishy. I want to be close to my allies and in the fray to use my abilities effectively, but even if I land a Starcall, I'm so squishy that the heal is made negligible near instantly. Again, Touch of the Cosmos does little to help even if you do build a bit tanky. And to be honest, she's not going to have the gold to get tanky AP items even if she wanted to as a support. Most supports that have to do their job in melee range get free defensive stats in some form(Taric, Braum, Leona, Threst, etc). I think it would better to give her a version of Wukong's passive. Let her gain bonus armor and magic resist based on the number of ally champions nearby. Also, Soraka's heals are at their best on allies with low health. However, Morellonomicon automatically makes your abilities apply Grievous Wounds to champs below 40% health. It's a common purchased item on many popular mids and absolutely hard counters Soraka. I dunno. Overall, if I want to play a healing support, I would rather play Sona as her heals are just as good in terms of practically and usability, and she brings more to the table than Soraka. And of course, Sona is now easier to use than Soraka.
: Long post inc: Ascension feels like a re-envisioned version of Dominion. It's fast, it's fun, it's Ascension. Well, that's what it felt like during the first game I played. However, after a few more games, it started to feel like a worse version of Dominion. My criticism: * **It promotes selfish play.** Whether we like it or not, the community is competitive. This includes against common foes and allies as well. No points(Scoreboard points) are given for assist kills, assist captures, or helping someone ascend. All the glory in Ascension goes to one person. I haven't seen anyone rage about "noob, that's my ascended" but I'm sure it's definitely going to happen once this goes live. * **Sustain, sustain, sustain.** Of course the first thing I tried to do upon playing was break the map. Similar to ARAM, healing is very powerful on a map where you cannot back. Once you reach a certain item threshold with Sona/Soraka, there's very little the enemy can do depending on how competent the Sona/Soraka is. * **Xerath is a bigger bait than baron.** Xerath is the center piece of the map but he definitely isn't worth the risk. At the speed that relics spawn and the points that they give, it's better to just focus on them 100% of the time and kill any enemies that get in your way since the relics spawn so fast. Since there is no real way to "secure" Xerath with a smite-like ability, the risk of him getting stolen is extremely high. And the biggest problem that with this mode that Dominion also suffers from: * **No clear objective to victory.** People need structure, a path of sorts that guides them towards victory. The path to victory is really obvious in SR but not so much in Dominion and Ascension. To the average player, the two mode comes off as mindless chaos and Ascension does very little to disprove that and encourage teamwork. Xerath appears to be practically soloable which baits teammates into trying to solo him and getting it stolen by the enemy. You can solo capture relics at a decent rate and they respawn pretty fast so "back capping" seems like a legitimate strat. There are brushes everywhere so one guy think it's a good strat to just sit in a bush most of the game ambushing people. The Akali thinks the game is a deathmatch so she ignores relics and Xerath and only chases enemies. Due to the point distribution, most of the above actions are almost equally rewarding so it reinforces their belief of the idea way to play. * Granted, the mode is new. Everyone is trying different things and wants to figure out the "best" path to victory on their own. However, I don't think the chaos is going to die down much. It was very frustrating as a support because I was never supporting more than 1-2 people 70% of the game. Everyone was off doing their own thing and insisted that their way of playing was the right way to win. However as the games progressed and the variance in champion power became more apparent, "we need to group" became a phrase that I heard often. **My suggestions** * Xerath shouldn't spawn at the start of the game mode. Or maybe he spawns and is simply untargetable for 5mins or so. Whatever the case, he shouldn't be there at the very start as he adds unnecessary chaos to an already chaotic game mode. * Relics need to be different colors to allow for strategy. On SR, you hear the words, "I'm taking blue" , "I'm taking wolves" . "I'm taking red" , etc. The same needs to happen on Ascension. How about a purple, red, and blue relic? That would help facilitate a bit more strategy. * 3 Teleport locations is too many at the start of the game. This needs to be limited to 2 teleports to force some semblance of cooperation at the start. * Supportive play needs to be rewarded. * Point distribution of relics, kills, and Xerath needs to be looked at. Overall, fun mode, but I don't see most people playing it very long. It gives off that mindless chaos vibe so many players will likely get tired of it. Okay for a featured mode I guess, but nowhere near good enough for a permanent game mode.
Character limit. A few more thoughts: Xerath's damage probably needs to be buffed a bit. I noticed that people were complaining about champs like Akali, Master Yi, and Fizz being OP in the games i played. It's to be expected. Assassin's thrive in chaos. They also dominated Dominion before players established a meta.
: 'Ascension' game mode coming soon to PBE
Long post inc: Ascension feels like a re-envisioned version of Dominion. It's fast, it's fun, it's Ascension. Well, that's what it felt like during the first game I played. However, after a few more games, it started to feel like a worse version of Dominion. My criticism: * **It promotes selfish play.** Whether we like it or not, the community is competitive. This includes against common foes and allies as well. No points(Scoreboard points) are given for assist kills, assist captures, or helping someone ascend. All the glory in Ascension goes to one person. I haven't seen anyone rage about "noob, that's my ascended" but I'm sure it's definitely going to happen once this goes live. * **Sustain, sustain, sustain.** Of course the first thing I tried to do upon playing was break the map. Similar to ARAM, healing is very powerful on a map where you cannot back. Once you reach a certain item threshold with Sona/Soraka, there's very little the enemy can do depending on how competent the Sona/Soraka is. * **Xerath is a bigger bait than baron.** Xerath is the center piece of the map but he definitely isn't worth the risk. At the speed that relics spawn and the points that they give, it's better to just focus on them 100% of the time and kill any enemies that get in your way since the relics spawn so fast. Since there is no real way to "secure" Xerath with a smite-like ability, the risk of him getting stolen is extremely high. And the biggest problem that with this mode that Dominion also suffers from: * **No clear objective to victory.** People need structure, a path of sorts that guides them towards victory. The path to victory is really obvious in SR but not so much in Dominion and Ascension. To the average player, the two mode comes off as mindless chaos and Ascension does very little to disprove that and encourage teamwork. Xerath appears to be practically soloable which baits teammates into trying to solo him and getting it stolen by the enemy. You can solo capture relics at a decent rate and they respawn pretty fast so "back capping" seems like a legitimate strat. There are brushes everywhere so one guy think it's a good strat to just sit in a bush most of the game ambushing people. The Akali thinks the game is a deathmatch so she ignores relics and Xerath and only chases enemies. Due to the point distribution, most of the above actions are almost equally rewarding so it reinforces their belief of the idea way to play. * Granted, the mode is new. Everyone is trying different things and wants to figure out the "best" path to victory on their own. However, I don't think the chaos is going to die down much. It was very frustrating as a support because I was never supporting more than 1-2 people 70% of the game. Everyone was off doing their own thing and insisted that their way of playing was the right way to win. However as the games progressed and the variance in champion power became more apparent, "we need to group" became a phrase that I heard often. **My suggestions** * Xerath shouldn't spawn at the start of the game mode. Or maybe he spawns and is simply untargetable for 5mins or so. Whatever the case, he shouldn't be there at the very start as he adds unnecessary chaos to an already chaotic game mode. * Relics need to be different colors to allow for strategy. On SR, you hear the words, "I'm taking blue" , "I'm taking wolves" . "I'm taking red" , etc. The same needs to happen on Ascension. How about a purple, red, and blue relic? That would help facilitate a bit more strategy. * 3 Teleport locations is too many at the start of the game. This needs to be limited to 2 teleports to force some semblance of cooperation at the start. * Supportive play needs to be rewarded. * Point distribution of relics, kills, and Xerath needs to be looked at. Overall, fun mode, but I don't see most people playing it very long. It gives off that mindless chaos vibe so many players will likely get tired of it. Okay for a featured mode I guess, but nowhere near good enough for a permanent game mode.
: What was the goal when designing Azir's e?
Yea, it seemed weird to me as well. However, after thinking about it for a bit, a shield is a defensive mechanism. You shouldn't be actively E'ing into a fight. Since the shield only procs when you hit an enemy champion, it's really only intended to be used when an enemy jumps in your face. **Shifting Sands isn't for moving into melee range offensively, it's to defend yourself against an enemy that's already in your face.** Shifting Sands should probably only be used offensively if you're really fed or you have some type of follow up CC planned to combo with an ally.
: Cassiopeia, Texture and Gameplay Update
Played a game with her. For some quick background, I'm a Cass main and primarily a Dominion player. These are my initial impressions/feedback. * **Bigger emphasis on Strengths/Weaknesses.** I feel by balancing more of her power into her E, you're heavily punishing players that can't reliably land her Q. I felt her old kit was punishing enough which kept most players away. * **Free CDR.** I know everyone is jumping for joy with this, but if you were a Cass main, you'd already know that CDR is basically useless on her. Her Q cooldown is at a low enough value that CDR doesn't really do much for it. Her ult is up basically every teamfight with or without CDR. The only thing it really helps is her W and hey, it was nerfed too. * **Nerfed Q** Now that you gutted her Q, Twin Fangs is now her ~~main~~ only source of DPS. One thing I really liked about Cass was that she was sort of LoL's DoT (Damage over Time) class. It felt good to watch your poison slowly whittle your targets down and being able to go in for the kill with Twin Fangs. Now, your poison basically does nothing and essentially serves just as a setup for your Twin Fangs. Q is also noticeably harder to land now. More than ever, Cassiopeia is now a glorified AP mage version of Urgot in terms of DPS setup. * **More power. Same problems** This kind of ties into what I said earlier. You made her damage potential stronger and her weaknesses greater. Sure, you probably think you offset it a bit by buffing the speed bonus on her Q and the slow on her W, but that means very little. Cass's problem has always been once an enemy gets on top of her, she's essentially dead. Once a Yasuo, Ahri, Kha'Zix, etc. gets in your face you can only do one thing: Try to kill them before they kill you. Movespeed is useless when everyone has some type of slow that cripples you and your own slow is best used pre-preemptively, not when the enemy is already on top of you. This isn't even factoring in the threat of gap closers. Obviously, she shouldn't have a guaranteed escape in these type of situations as her damage potential is too high for that. However, I feel Cass's kit is far too interesting to be relegated towards "Protect the Kog" style comps. It would be great if she could occupy a middle ground. Not as team reliant as say a Kog Maw or Vel'Koz, but she shouldn't be able to fend for herself as well as a Zed, Ziggs, or Orianna. Maybe, she already occupies that space. I don't know, I'll have to test more. In one dominion bot game, I was able to get about 170 stacks in 12mins. I'm not sure if it will need to be adjusted for live or not as there are not enough Dominion players on the PBE to test with, but I think it will be very hard to reach 375 stacks in a Dominion game against actual human players. I still need to do a lot more testing on her mana usage and testing in general but I'm assuming I'm still going to be building an Athene's every game for the mana regen and the MR to help against enemy mages. How effective E is over her old passive for mana sustainability will heavily influence her itemization paths. I feel pre-rework Cass was more fun to play because: * **Her power was distributed throughout all her abilities.** E was her main source of damage and Q was needed for the setup, but landing all her abilities in general felt more rewarding. I didn't feel like I absolutely had to land and time all her E's perfectly to kill a target like I have to do now. * **Being a lane bully is fun.** It is. * **Thematically, it felt great to whittle your targets down with your poison abilities.** I'm not saying that's not possible anymore, but the emphasis has definitely been placed on Twin Fang burst. In summary, I may sound harsh and probably exaggerated a bit because **I'm just nitpicking.** She seems to play pretty much the same, if only a bit harder to use because of the increased delay on her Q. I assume this is one of the trade-offs for giving her more power. The free CDR should ease the pain a bit. This was my **one game Dominion** impressions/feedback.
: I posted this in a topic I created earlier, but I'll repost it here. Well, Azir is definitely different. He has a steep learning curve but once you get use to his playstyle, he's pretty fun. Here are my issues with him(This is from my games with him on Dominion. I have no experience with him on SR): * **He's balanced around 40% CDR**. Azir feels pretty weak until you get 40 CDR. The reveal described him as a zone control type mage and he definitely fits that archetype once you get 40% CDR. However, until then, you have a zone, but you have little to no control over the enemies inside it. The best way to beat Azir early-mid game is just to simply walk away. Enemy fighting me and they start to lose? No problem, they just walk away. Even if you land your Q and get off a knock-up on your E, he's a sustained damage dealer so the enemy is going to be gone before your Q ever comes back up again to re-position your soldiers. However, once you do obtain 40% CDR, Azir truly shines and you can stick to enemies just fine and pull off some pretty neat mind games with the amount of soldiers you are able to have available at one time. * **His AD/AP carry hybrid-style gameplay makes itemization limited.** You're going to be dealing most of your damage with autoattacks through your soldiers yet they can't proc on-hit effects. That's huge. Rylais is even out of the question because your soldiers can't apply it(I think). Even still, it's not like Azir himself has any ability that can reliably apply it other than his Ult. Reading his reveal, I was hoping Azir would be a good champion that Rageblade would be somewhat decent on, but I was wrong. It's just doesn't work well on him. Other than Zhonya's, Azir is basically locked out of the majority of the interesting items and is forced to essentially only build items that give raw stats. * **Bots act dumb around him.** Dumber than usual to be exact. When I have my soldiers out and I'm attacking from a distance(soldiers' autos), the bots can't seem to make up their mind on what to do. They usually just stand there and take it until their life reaches a certain threshold and their "instinct" to run away kicks in. * **Doesn't feel fluid.** This is my main problem with Azir. It really irks me that the devs insists on giving everything counterplay. I believe that no-counterplay in small amounts is okay. Azir's is a good example of too much counterplay(Well, Vel'Koz is a better example). His Q has a slight animation that stops you mid run animation to cast the ability. He's a emperor commanding his soldiers to charge, can't he just point while running? Even ignoring lore, it still doesn't feel natural that a minion controlling type of class has to stop to tell his minions to charge. Overall, it just felt awkward trying to chase/kite with the ability. I know that being able to cast your abilities while moving is a lot of power that people underestimate, but I think it would be fine for Azir at the very least on his Q. * There also seems to be a slight delay before you can issue a command once a soldier has been summoned. It's annoying to deal with and again, it makes chasing/kiting much harder than it needs to be. * His W suffers from an even harsher animation. Granted, I think it's somewhat warranted as he could probably become pretty scary late game with 40% CDR and no animation on W. Regardless, I think he should at least be able to instantly summon 2 soldiers to the field. Either that or set the internal cast delay to the same number as Zyra's seed's. * **No towers on Dominion.** I thought the devs said they take all games modes into consideration when designing a champion? There are no towers on Dominion so a part of his passive is going to waste. It's sad that Azir can't even use a portion of his kit, something that no other champion in the game can do, on Dominion. It's not a deal breaker as I'm sure he'll still be fine on Dominion without part of his passive, but it's still disappointing. Continued below.
Chracter limit so I'm posting the rest of my post here. * **Q is sort of confusing with it's uses. ** I don't know, maybe i'm just bad, but I had issues judging the range of the ability when the soldiers are directly in front of me. When they're far away from me, they're able to travel really far with Q. When they're already next to me at the start of Q, they don't seem to travel nearly as far. I'm assuming it has something to do with their distance in relation to the player. * Also, soldiers can go through walls with Q, but once on the other side, the soldiers' pathing for Q doesn't always move towards my cursor. This was an uncommon occurrence. * Overall, I found Q difficult to land on moving targets and found it was much easier to aim the Q in a radius in front of the direction my target was moving and just simply kill them with the soldier's auto attacks. I think the risk/reward is off on trying to actually hit your target directly with your Q. The slow is weak and the damage is nothing to brag about. It's better to take the guaranteed damage/setup by aiming the Q somewhere in relation to where your target is heading and using the auto attacks. I don't know if this was the intended goal of the ability, but I ended up using Q mainly for utility purposes once I got 40% CDR. * **QoL Changes** A range indicator for his soldiers would be nice. I assume this is already being worked on. * Having his E work like ZIgg's Q would be nice. With Zigg's, even if your target isn't in range, if you move your cursor far away and cast Q, Zigg's will throw his bomb the maximum distance of the ability in that direction. Similarly, I think it would be nice if Azir's E behaved in a similar fashion. If you point your mouse cursor in a direction and use E, Azir should attempt to move to the furthest soldier in that direction. That's about it. Fun champ. Small issues but I think he's fine overall. To reiterate, this is the perspective of a Dominion player. Edit: Formatting... Edit 2: There is a bug on Dominion with Azir's respawn. When he dies and respawns, the camera doesn't center on him but the lower ramp of the fountain.
: Azir, the Emperor of the Sands
I posted this in a topic I created earlier, but I'll repost it here. Well, Azir is definitely different. He has a steep learning curve but once you get use to his playstyle, he's pretty fun. Here are my issues with him(This is from my games with him on Dominion. I have no experience with him on SR): * **He's balanced around 40% CDR**. Azir feels pretty weak until you get 40 CDR. The reveal described him as a zone control type mage and he definitely fits that archetype once you get 40% CDR. However, until then, you have a zone, but you have little to no control over the enemies inside it. The best way to beat Azir early-mid game is just to simply walk away. Enemy fighting me and they start to lose? No problem, they just walk away. Even if you land your Q and get off a knock-up on your E, he's a sustained damage dealer so the enemy is going to be gone before your Q ever comes back up again to re-position your soldiers. However, once you do obtain 40% CDR, Azir truly shines and you can stick to enemies just fine and pull off some pretty neat mind games with the amount of soldiers you are able to have available at one time. * **His AD/AP carry hybrid-style gameplay makes itemization limited.** You're going to be dealing most of your damage with autoattacks through your soldiers yet they can't proc on-hit effects. That's huge. Rylais is even out of the question because your soldiers can't apply it(I think). Even still, it's not like Azir himself has any ability that can reliably apply it other than his Ult. Reading his reveal, I was hoping Azir would be a good champion that Rageblade would be somewhat decent on, but I was wrong. It's just doesn't work well on him. Other than Zhonya's, Azir is basically locked out of the majority of the interesting items and is forced to essentially only build items that give raw stats. * **Bots act dumb around him.** Dumber than usual to be exact. When I have my soldiers out and I'm attacking from a distance(soldiers' autos), the bots can't seem to make up their mind on what to do. They usually just stand there and take it until their life reaches a certain threshold and their "instinct" to run away kicks in. * **Doesn't feel fluid.** This is my main problem with Azir. It really irks me that the devs insists on giving everything counterplay. I believe that no-counterplay in small amounts is okay. Azir's is a good example of too much counterplay(Well, Vel'Koz is a better example). His Q has a slight animation that stops you mid run animation to cast the ability. He's a emperor commanding his soldiers to charge, can't he just point while running? Even ignoring lore, it still doesn't feel natural that a minion controlling type of class has to stop to tell his minions to charge. Overall, it just felt awkward trying to chase/kite with the ability. I know that being able to cast your abilities while moving is a lot of power that people underestimate, but I think it would be fine for Azir at the very least on his Q. * There also seems to be a slight delay before you can issue a command once a soldier has been summoned. It's annoying to deal with and again, it makes chasing/kiting much harder than it needs to be. * His W suffers from an even harsher animation. Granted, I think it's somewhat warranted as he could probably become pretty scary late game with 40% CDR and no animation on W. Regardless, I think he should at least be able to instantly summon 2 soldiers to the field. Either that or set the internal cast delay to the same number as Zyra's seed's. * **No towers on Dominion.** I thought the devs said they take all games modes into consideration when designing a champion? There are no towers on Dominion so a part of his passive is going to waste. It's sad that Azir can't even use a portion of his kit, something that no other champion in the game can do, on Dominion. It's not a deal breaker as I'm sure he'll still be fine on Dominion without part of his passive, but it's still disappointing. Continued below.
Rioter Comments
: Azir bug
Azir's gameplay revolve's around using his soldiers to do damage. W spawns his soldiers. No W, no soldiers, no damage. In the future, it would be wise to at least read the champion's gameplay description before being so quick to label something as a bug.
: Vel'Koz's Q won't recast until after about half the initial distance.
It's a lot less than half. About 25%-30% of the maximum distance you can detonate the ability. I assume it's not a bug and for balancing purposes since he's suppose to be a high damage back line mage that needs to be protected.
: Yup... the same thing just happened here and I was also trying out vel'koz with battlecast skin and then the same stuff happened but the game just restarted again as I was typing this though Edit: Just jumped in to the game and it was on dominion and the floor panels leading out of the fountain were missing plus the capture towers were all missing too and the bot didn't leave the fountain
Can confirm this as well. The Dominion floor panels dont come out and also there are no capture towers. The bots also remain at the spawn. Edit: Speed Shrines also do not work.
: [Audio Missing] No Voice or Announcer tracks, Sound Effects track seems ok
I noticed this as well. VO lines are missing from various champions and Xerath doesn't make any sound at all.
: [Suggestion] Give Ignite the same counter/display as smite
Kind of 50/50 on this. Part of the fun of playing your champions is knowing your limits. Knowing that you can do X amount of damage and that an ignite or so should kill the enemy. Sure you could say the same thing with Smite when it comes to fighting monsters, but you have other factors to worry about as well. Your teammates damaging the monster, and of course, the enemies as well. It isn't as simple as just watching the monster's HP and hitting a button. Honestly, knowing exactly how much damage you do with ignite may actually lead to more failed killed. You still got to account for health regen and the potential use of an HP pot.
: [Yasuo] - Question about Q
Don't forget that Q has the added utlity of being able to hit multiple champions and allows him to damaged a target(s) from 475 range instead of his usual 175 range.
: Do you have a copy of the replay this happened with?
Yea, I still have it. I've attached it to the topic.
Rioter Comments
: Team Builder is testing today and tomorrow (Nov 20th and 21st)!
A quick thing I noticed. While it's possible to change your mastery and rune pages at the Team Builder champ select screen, any changes you make to your rune pages won't show up until you completely exit the queue and rejoin again. I think there should be some type of warning text to make sure the users are aware of this.
: One for all, heavy adc favor?
I could be wrong but I think ranged in general has an advantage in this game mode, especially when it's played on the Howling Abyss.
: Harder punishment in pbe?
Yea, this is a trend I'm noticing. People aren't necessarily flat out raging, but if the game isn't going the way they want, they just leave. If people can't handle playing with other players, they should stick to testing in custom games.
: Mastery Prompt on the PBE
: NVM one for all is too thamn awsome. It will take some more days due to that temp more as this can wait and one for all will end on sunday. Sorry 'bout that but I think you can understand.
lol I don't really care much about One For All but I understand. :)
: One For All Enabled On PBE!
I'll quickly mention that it would be nice in champ select to have some type of indicator to let you know what Champion is currently winning the majority. I mean sure, you could just look at each player's selected champion and count but I feel an indicator or some type of counter would still be helpful. Moving on.., One For All definitely isn't best played on SR. I can't really explain why other than it felt too slow and uncoordinated. Some players wanted to group mid. Some wanted to play just like it's SR. Some people just wanted to split push. I believe that One for All is at it's best when players are always on the same page and with increased gold income since most players seem to not focus on last hitting or strategy. The people that One For All attracts likely aren't interested in last hit and laning for 20mins. The length of the game also needs to not be too long or people may be tempted to rage quit against certain imbalances. This is one of the reasons why TT, HA, and Dominion are fun. Even if you're against a very annoying team composition, you're only going to suffer for about 25 mins at the most. You're also generating more gold on those maps so it's not totally hopeless(At least I think you are on TT. Haven't played that in a while). On SR, not only are you unable to farm against an 'unfun' team comp, but the game could potentially last a lot longer than it should making players want to leave. I know a lot of people are saying Howling Abyss but I feel HA gives to large of an advantage to ranged damage dealers. Granted, One For All will never be balanced but I believe changing One For All from SR to HA will invalidate a lot more champs than having it played on SR. **My Suggestion** Test One For All on multiple maps. For 2-3 days, One For All will be played on SR. For the next 2-3 days, One For All will be played on The Crystal Scar. After that, The Twisted Treeline. After that, The Howling Abyss. Gather feedback and see what the players enjoy the most. Personally, I'm leaning towards the Twisted Treeline map.
: I think you are right, there's a nerf here but I'm still getting there to answer this. For now I'll check out leona and then I'll check out soraka. I'll have an opinion here that I can make but I'll have to test my theory first with some games before I can tell for sure that's why I still didn't write anything about it. I should have something to discuss by tomorrow, if all goes well.
: Your suggestions on 3) and and 2) are interesting, and might make soraka's playstyle a bit more interesting, but for the most part I disagree with all the other options, and the things that you consider nerfs, I consider necessary so that there is more interaction in the bottom lane, when playing against soraka lanes. **Playing against** {{champion:16}} Soraka is intended as you said, a defensive support, which also provides great sustain if your just looking to farm and survive in lane. However, in the current live client one of two outcomes will happen. 1. Soraka lanes will just shove to your tower making them vulnerable to ganks. The problem though is that wards are sufficient to usually prevent ganks, so your only options is to trade. However, you can't really trade with how strong soraka's heals are. Anytime I would go for a trade, soraka will just heal it back up. Now, with the new changes, I feel soraka has to decide whether to heal her teammate at above 50% health or below 50% health. This gives the enemy an window of opportunity to trade, which compared to the live is very little to almost non-existent right now. 2. Soraka lanes will just play passive and hug their turret, exposing the enemy team to ganks.Wards are sufficient to prevent ganks in this scenario as well. Although in this case, there's not much you can do to fight, so you have to force the tower down as quickly as you can. (This is often the choice I decide to do) By changing Q so that it requires soraka to bring up her heal faster, now there is a new opportunity for the enemy to interact. If soraka wants to keep her sustain up, she now has to shove the lane a little more. There is no longer this binary situation of one side being pushed in. It feels like there is more room between the enemy and soraka lanes. **Playing as** {{champion:16}} Now, I have play a few games with soraka as well. Before these changes, I would almost always start W for all games, and continue to max W for heal (depending on how necessary), and then proceed to max E next for mana sustain, and I would withhold from putting a point into Q until sometime after lvl 6. Now with the new changes, and the few games I have played with her, it felt more exciting to start E now for dmg/poke *and then* start heal.I tended to max E first now for the poke, while leaving one point in Q and one for W. The new interaction with Q+W lets me decide how much heal sustain we are going to need. If I feel like we will be fine with rank 1 base heal, I can continue to max Q for the increased CDR on Astral Blessing. **Some final thoughts and things I haven't tested yet.** Overall, I think the new soraka is more engaging with the new changes, and you no longer can just rely on the base heal from W and just stay back like before. The new passive creates more of a window for the enemy to go for trades, as well as helping soraka get most out of her heal in *emergency* situations. Also, you gotta love that new effect on her E ;) I can't say much about your concerned with ignite. In the few games I have played with soraka, I haven't had much trouble with that. Even if it were a problem, I feel that because soraka is less dependent on her heal, she now has more options with her E to fight back in lane. In lane, I usually just heal my ADC even if they are above 50% or even 60-70% health, since the base heal is still pretty nice. I would never want to save my heal for when they are below 50% just to heal them back up. The only time that decision becomes valid, is during a fight, where a lot of burst is coming onto your ADC. It should be used as an *emergency* heal in those kinds of situations, not the opposite where it becomes a constant choice so that you can get more out of your W. I will try to play more soraka games, and come back to answer your concerns about the problem of Healing Reduction. Thank you for posting this thread. I now have more things to test and think about. :)
While I don't necessarily agree with everything you posted, I appreciate your feedback and definitely agree that Soraka is more engaging with the new changes. I feel that overall Soraka is in a better spot now except when you factor in the abundance of healing reduction now. It's kind of like if Thornmail was always a good purchase. It's a pretty good purchase against an auto attack heavy team, but not something you want to pick up otherwise. However, not only does Morellonomicon build from Kage's pick now, it gives a whopping 20% CDR, 75 AP, and 7 mana regen, all for 2200G. Oh, and it inflicts Grievous Wounds on your target when they reach 40% health. You could remove Grievous Wounds and it still would be a good purchase. In the past, Grievous Wounds use to be an active on Morellonomicon. Now it's the passive and has no CD so continuing to use abilities on an enemy keeps Grievous Wounds on the target. If you're a support in season 4 starting with Kage's Pick, why wouldn't you build this incredibly gold efficient item? I could just be overreacting and maybe this won't hurt Soraka as much as I think. Regardless, I look forward to your testing experience.
: Supporting: S3-Live vs S4-Beta
Nice write-up but I feel you barely said much about trinkets. While trinkets aren't restricted to supports, they certainly benefit supports the most and add a new layer of gameplay in the fight for control bot lane. Aggressive supports like Leona or Blitz may prefer a Sweeping Lens. A passive support like Soraka may prefer a Warding Totem or Scrying Orb. I believe the trinket you select as a support will have a significant influence on whether or not you are successful bot lane.
: Yes I did reed the patch notes, and I have used her. She feels stronger not weaker, so I have no idea what your talking about. I main support you know. So how about instated of being rude on a post thats true, you don't call me off on being wrong. There are also many champs that cant cast while moving, while the ones that do need to be able to do that. Sorakra isn't one of them. Good day to you, sir.
Your post isn't true. You presented **zero** factual evidence to prove anything. However, I have my personal experience, patch notes that explicitly show that her heals were nerfed above a certain health percentage, **AND** Riot devs confirming this. The only person who is wrong here is you. I"m done replying to you. You didn't come to this topic to have an intelligent discussion, you came here to troll.
: New Support Changes on the PBE (10/31/2013)
Linking to my feedback of Soraka with the new changes for visibility. http://community.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/c/gameplay/P1Ep9kF5-sorakas-new-passive-and-the-abundance-of-healing-reduction
: No, I get what your saying. You said nerf Grievous Wounds 2 times in the post. And about casting while moving, you sure that's actually the problem? You cast it and stop, but if you click you can still be moving anyway. And also, her heal isn't any weaker like you think. It may seem like it, but I did some tests on it. Good Day Argodis
Again, you're wrong about my post being summed up as nerf Grievous Wounds but I'm not even going to bother trying to explain since you clearly entered the topic with an 'everything is fine' mentality. And her heals ARE weaker. Didn't you read the patch notes? Didn't you read the red posts? Do you regularly play Soraka on the live servers like I do? **Astral Blessing** * Healing reduced to 70-270 (from 70-350) + 0.35 (from +0.45) **Wish** * Healing reduced to 150-350 (from 200/320/440) + (0.55 (from +0.7)) Riot Pwyff: > Wish now affects untargetable allies and with Soraka’s new passive is more effective on targets below 40% health but less effective on targets above 40% health. > [Source](http://community.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/c/gameplay/fs3jrmYy-new-support-changes-on-the-pbe-10312013) Meddler: > Wish was adjusted due to her new passive, which increases the strength of her heals the lower the target's health %. Evens out with the current live values around 40% target health, stronger on targets below that (who are generally the people you most want to be healing in the first place). > [Source](http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=42673287#42673287) So yes, Soraka's heals are in fact nerfed until you reach a certain health threshold where her passive makes her heals the same as live and potentially stronger. You're also attempting to belittle the significance of being able to cast an ability without breaking stride. Syndra can cast while moving, Soraka can not. Being able to cast abilities without breaking stride is very powerful and one of the reasons why champs like Orianna and Syndra are solid picks. It's clear you have little no experience playing with the new or old Soraka. In the future, try not to give feedback on changes you aren't familiar with. Thanks.
: You seem to hate Grievous Wounds. Riot isn't going to nerf it, as its supposed to be a counter to healing. Nerfing it is like nerfing ap for ap mid laners.
You seem to not understand my post at all if all you got out of it was, 'I hate Grievous Wounds.'
Rioter Comments
: New Support Changes on the PBE (10/31/2013)
I've tested Soraka, Nami, Sona, and Janna so far. Generally, I don't have much to say about the individual champion changes. All of the supports felt great to play. I rarely played Janna on live so I can't say whether or not these changes improved her not. Soraka still felt like Soraka. Enjoyable, but it felt a bit weird that my heal healed for less than expected because the % of missing health thing. No big deal, I can get use to that. Nami was all around great. It's been a while since I've played Sona on live, but she felt just as good as the other supports that I played on the PBE. More than anything, I enjoy not being a ward bot anymore and having gold to spend on other items now. I always felt like I was very important to my team as a support, but now I have the items in my inventory to reflect it. I'm assuming the exp changes didn't go through this patch as I was still falling behind in levels as support.
Rioter Comments
: Jungle monsters life bars
I can confirm this. It's suppose to be one bar as it displays correctly on minions but the black bar is offset on jungle creeps.
: New Support Changes on the PBE (10/31/2013)
This is so overwhelming. I know balance is probably going to be off for a while so are we suppose to just be testing the general feel of the supports with the new changes?
: [Suggestion] Sivir NEW art!
I'm not sure about the whole voting thing, but I definitely agree that the new splash art is worse. I'm all for the hyper-stylized action pose visuals, but the new Sivir art is too ridiculous.
: were you with jinx vs a sivir/zilean?
Nah, I haven't played a game vs a Sivir or Zilean.
: Combat Text, Ceremony, and Particle Changes!
Mowing down a bunch of creeps with Sivir's Ricochet is so satisfying with the new last-hit sound. Leveling also looks great now. Overall, the changes are a breath of fresh air to the game.
: What have you done?
I agree, something does needs to be done. There are leavers and toxic players everywhere. I'm not sure if reports work on the PBE, but I report them anyway. On the bright side, in all of those toxic games, I also encountered some of the nicest players I've ever met in my 3+ years of League.
: A Warm Welcome from Relaunch!
I think Urgot needs a relaunch. Everything about his kit feels fine except his ult. It just seems tacked on and out of place. His ult seems like it would be better suited for a tank, not an AD Caster. Visually, I think Urgot is fine. He fills that "dark-themed" niche that not many LoL champs fill. Pantheon could probably use a visual overhaul. His skin art is fine but I think his animations are all kind of bland. They don't convey any sort of power/tension and he comes across as just a generic spartan guy. Maybe it's because his animations are so fast that the power in his animations is hard to notice, I dunno. Pantheon's model needs to be updated as well. Unlike Olaf, he doesn't look/feel as badass as his splash art portrays him as. Teemo's kit needs to be looked at. I'm not sure what, but I feel a simple buffing isn't going to fix his gameplay problems. Teemo being sort of a hybrid(AP/AD) character may be part of the issue.
Rioter Comments
: That's turned off at the moment. But there *will* be.
I don't know if this is related, but everyone has the same Summoner Icon in the loading screen regardless of the one they selected.

Argodis

Level 30 (PBE)
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