: You don't need extensive research to figure out what issues most players found with the skin. Simply skim through this thread and you'll have your answer. It's the way that you said it which struck a nerve. "Change this or I won't buy it" kind of mentality lol
I very much like the premise of the skin, but this issue irritates me too much to actually use it, and obviously I wouldn't buy something that I wouldn't use. In the interest of trying to be as helpful as possible, I was just trying to communicate that and explain the reasons why I feel this way. I'm not sure why that bothers you.
: > [{quoted}](name=Anrita,realm=PBE,application-id=cMKtzQHY,discussion-id=NksGHs8c,comment-id=00440000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-18T15:07:17.295+0000) The other elements in this skin seem to follow a certain logic, both in this sense and in the combinatorial math sense, but Light and Dark are exceptions, and that inconsistency bothers me enough to make the difference in whether I would purchase this skin. Honestly, most people are not that hardcore and if it just so happens that you are so bothered by it then no one is forcing you to buy it. This is a complete fantasy world and the whole idea of manipulating elements at will itself goes far beyond real world logic. Don't nitpick the littlest stuff when there are actual issues about the skin that are far more important
I don't think either of us has done enough research to be in a position to speak for "most people", and just because _you_ perceive my feedback to be trivial doesn't mean that everyone would feel that way. It's a big deal to me, and as large as LoL's playerbase is, there will probably be others who feel the same way. Whether or not there's enough such people to justify making a change based on my feedback is a decision the dev team can make, but to say that I shouldn't have provided the feedback at all is senseless. Worst case scenario, they choose not to use the feedback, and nothing is lost. Best case scenario, they make an improvement based on the feedback, people are happier with the result, and more people buy the skin.
: I get where you're coming from, but keep in mind that while you may not be able to 'grow' into Light, you aren't required to change forms, and could stay as Light throughout the entire game, if you wanted to. This isn't meant to some off as snarky, but Runeterra isn't earth, and may not play by normal physics!
> [{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=PBE,application-id=cMKtzQHY,discussion-id=NksGHs8c,comment-id=0044000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-16T17:54:07.970+0000) > > I get where you're coming from, but keep in mind that while you may not be able to 'grow' into Light, you aren't required to change forms, and could stay as Light throughout the entire game, if you wanted to. I realize that, but it seems less satisfying. With the other elements, you have to earn them, but Light is just handed to you right out of the gate. Also, transforming is part of the fun, and choosing Light means giving that up. > [{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=PBE,application-id=cMKtzQHY,discussion-id=NksGHs8c,comment-id=0044000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-16T17:54:07.970+0000) > > This isn't meant to some off as snarky, but Runeterra isn't earth, and may not play by normal physics! That's a fair point, and I don't expect fantasy / sci-fi worlds to play by our rules, but I can't switch off the part of my brain that tries to make sense of what their rules are (and actually, that's a big part of the fun for me). Usually, such worlds use the rules of our world as a base and then add some of their own that may alter or override some of the originals. And, usually, systems of elements are inspired by real-world interactions. The other elements in this skin seem to follow a certain logic, both in this sense and in the combinatorial math sense, but Light and Dark are exceptions, and that inconsistency bothers me enough to make the difference in whether I would purchase this skin.
: If you see it like this makes sense http://imgur.com/a/SptTL
I already thought of that, but it still bothers me for several reasons, including: 1) There's a result that derives from multiple combinations, which makes the number of final forms mismatch with combinatorial mathematics. 2) Light and Dark are traditionally portrayed as equal and opposite forces in fantasy lore, but here Dark is portrayed as having 2 more component elements than light. 3) In physics, fire is consistently a source of light, and yet here Fire can be a component of Dark. 4) As the "advanced" forms are supposed to be the result of mixing in composites of elements, and Light is the starting element, following that pattern implies that Light is a component of every other element, including Dark. 5) Players who want to grow into Light cannot do so.
: [ULTIMATE SKIN] PBE Bugs & Feedback Thread - Elementalist Lux!
The fact that there are 2 combinations to unlock Dark Lux is irritating my OCD something awful. I'd much prefer if Lux started out neutral and could transform into Light Lux with Water + Fire.
: Change Ivern's Attributes, also better reflect on him being as a ranged mage
You don't think having his ranged attack be contingent upon hiding in brush makes his brush creation spell more interesting and relevant?
: Hello Riot! To say something about myself: I am a disabled gamer. I have a paraplegia which causes spasm. I play LoL to train my coördination and accuracy. Due to my limitations, some champions are mechanically impossible to play (read: Ryze, Katarina, Nidalee...). This also places me in the support main role :P Now my feelings for Taliyah: Passive: I like the passive idea, but I experienced it's a bit lackluster. The speed boost is very small and the "hop on-hop off" in jungle is very annoying. Q: I like this skill and the skill you need to use it properly. Fits perfectly! I also like the idea of the Worked Ground effect, but I feel it could be hard in laning phase. Mostly the area of Worked Ground feels too big. W: It has been said multiple times, Vector cast vs double cast. I can't double cast quick enough to actually aim and shoot opponents away. My idea is, maybe make an option to switch between both types. Kind of like Quick cast vs "normal" cast, but then Vector vs double cast. This would help me, but also the Viktor and Rumble players. Also, like some others said, I think it would be cool if this skill can affect allies too. If this is happening, I could see Taliyah as a flex-pick, being able to support too! E: Very nice skill, perfect against mobile dash champions. I also like the interaction between her W and E. R: A good skill for playmaking, but useless in current meta. I feel this meta is around picking the most mobile champions, with dashes or teleports, who can get away from/over your ult's wall. Overall: Nice and (as far I can see) balanced kit. I like her and if the W could be changed, I will buy her! NOTE: Watched alot of video's and streams, didn't use her in a PvP game as I can't use her W. I did try her in a couple custom games.
I agree with most of this, but 2 points: 1) Reducing the size of worked ground would reduce its usefulness as an escape tool. Personally, I find that there are often small gaps that I can pop into to start a volley, so I don't see much advantage to smaller circles, either. Perhaps as an alternative to shrinkage, the range indicator could be updated to include the circle that will become worked ground. That would help players strategically terraform their lanes without sacrificing her utility. 2) With W, sometimes it's best to knock enemies straight up (synergizes with allies AoE abilities, easier to stunlock, or just for pure positioning). Maybe this functionality could be preserved with vector casting, but I wouldn't want to lose that functionality, either. Theoretically, there's also an advantage to being able to delay the decision of which direction to launch enemies, although I've yet to see a situation in practice where I changed my mind about the direction between when I plant the ability and when it activates.
: Two issues with the ult I have encountered: 1. I just used it on the Definately Not Dominion mode, and it appeared as a string of minions on the minimap (this might be true elsewhere, but I only noticed then) 2. Can you cancel the wall when dead? I feel like that might be useful.
: She seems like a decent control/zone mage potentially. My feedback: Her passive is extremely underwhelming compared to other recently released champions. Surely there is room in her kit for something more exciting? Her matchups vs assassins/mobile champions are going to be horrible as her skills have long cast times, awkward hitboxes and low damage. She seems like she would do well vs low mobility teams but how often do you see low mobility teams in reality? Almost never. Her Q is ok. I feel like there needs to be some further compensation other than movespeed for casting it on worked ground. Maybe buff the base/scaling damage to be better even if it's still just one shot. Or add a slow/ministun for using it on worked ground. Her W hitbox seems small and I personally found casting it in a direction clunky. Feels like it should be a vector cast . i think it would be easier to land than say Viktor E, because it's a circle rather than a line-missile. Her E is actually good, although her overall combo feels very unsatisfying as her damage is so low. You E -> W them into the E, maybe hit Q after then..... nothing it feels like half a combo. I like her ulti although it takes some getting used to. Im curious as to why she has a "roaming" ulti rather than a "combat" ulti as she is supposed to be a control mage and control mages generally have their ulti as a core part of their all in combo (Azir, Orianna, Syndra, Anivia etc). Maybe leveling up her ulti could increase the radius of her W/E so that later in the game she can pull off flashy multi-man W knockups and really fulfil the fantasy. I feel like she has potential but if she goes live as-is nobody will play her. Too lacklustre/awkward compared to other champions.
Her ult can be very useful in teamfights if you split the enemy team with it, but pulling this off generally requires her to ambush them. This is one of those uses where it makes sense not to ride the wave. In general, she seems to work best with teammates, so I think she'll be classified as a Mage/Support.
: Hey Daniel! First off I wanted to say really great job with Taliyah, the mechanics you used with her design are really balanced and I really like how she's turning out to be. My feedback with her after playing about 6 games or so on the PBE, is that her passive doesn't really feel satisfying. It's definitely a useful ability to roam around the map, but because it's just kind of a passive thing it's a bit lackluster and it never really feels like it does anything, even though it can help a lot. My idea for this would be to maybe give it a mechanic that gives her some kind of noticeable power. Something like, her next ability does a small amount of bonus damage, or instead of giving passive movement speed forever, give her a reasonable burst of movement speed for a short amount of time, to make it have some kind of combat / skirmish efectiveness rather than just "this is a tool that I use to walk to/between lanes". It doesn't have to be something too crazy, but shifting power from her passive from being just a passive that feels unimpactful, to something that is more impactful but on the same level or power or potentially even weaker could feel really good and make that ability awesome. Overall though her kit is sweet and it's really healthy/balanced design, so great job!
The movement speed bonus can be very powerful in rare situations. For example, if your team is chasing the enemy, you can split off and zip around the other side of a jungle island to get ahead of the enemy and cut off their escape with your ult. I wouldn't want to lose that utility, as outmaneuvering the opponents seems to be a big part of the fun of playing as her.
: It really feels like taliyah has no damage i know its been said a lot i just wanted to reiterate. the worked ground i understood while reading but when playing its so counter to the champ. a control mage that makes zones of weakness for herself seems pretty off. it feels so bad to cast q in worked ground that you almost never want to cast it in a worked zone unless its to pick up a quick last hit. it just feels incomplete like something else is meant to happen but nothing. i love the way her kit plays but it just feels like im trying so hard for such little reward. You said we shouldn't do solutions so i wont post any but so many ideas.
Sometimes I like casting Q from worked ground for a quick, mana efficient poke. Landing multiple hits sometimes requires more risk than I'm comfortable with, depending on the situation. Between that, the 50% mana refund, and the fact that hits after the first do half damage, I like having the option to choose between a poke and a full volley.
: Okay, correction: W-E is possible, just much harder to do than it might seem. You pretty much can only catch people at the end of the fling and not the start. And you have to be really fast; on PBE lag(and with limited skills...), I could only get it like one out of 3 times.
I've given up on trying to land W on champions that are not affected by some form of crowd control or are otherwise stationary for some reason (channeled abilities). I mostly use W to push minions into my E or to cut off champions' escape route, because the combination of the slow and the penalty for dashes greatly reduces their ability to avoid pain.
: Taliyah feedback thread
I like her passive, but it feels a bit inconsistent. Sometimes you can zig-zag between jungle corners and keep surfing, but other times, just trying to follow a wall leaves you walking (even when off cooldown). Even when it's not being quirky, I often wonder if the bonus movement speed is enough to make up for the added distance of not travelling in a straight line towards the destination. Despite the problems, it just feels fun to see her surfing on a giant rock, and I wish she got the full movement speed bonus and surfing animation while travelling over worked ground when out of combat so I could enjoy her passive more often. Her Q volley is not interrupted by crowd control (stun). As funny as it is to get a kill on Fiddlesticks or Veigar without control of your champ, it also feels kinda like cheating in this case. Edit: After further experimentation, I think I know why the passive feels inconsistent. It seems to periodically check to see if you're very close to a wall, and if so, gives you a short-duration movespeed buff. This duration is enough to cross some gaps, but not others. The other issue is concave walls, like the side inhibitor turrets and the sidelane brush walls on SR. Following these walls is problematic because the pathfinding will take you directly towards the ground you click on, which means either clicking many times all along the wall (which can cause your champion to stop moving entirely if they catch up to your last click before you finish your next) or move out of range of the wall (because even just wandering away from it a little bit seems to be enough to cancel the passive). Edit #2: I think the passive might feel more consistent if it just checked whether or not to start surfing more often and lasted just a tad longer before falling off.
: Mana refunds can exceed 100%
A refund is not the same as a discount. The mana cost is not changed when you get a % of its cost refunded.
: MYMU - Zyra discussion
Possibly the biggest problem that's held Zyra back as a control mage is her plant targeting. Her plants tend to all target the same enemy, for reduced damage and redundant effects. Buying Rylai's for defense isn't much help when your plants all target the tank, leaving the rest of the enemy team free to do as they please. Sure, she still has AoE abilities which can apply the effect, but if she waits until she has the chance to hit multiple enemy champions with the spell AoE, that probably means the enemy tank has already stomped her seeds, and if Zyra's spells were sufficient without spawning plants, she would be insanely OP when she did summon plants. Here's how I think the targeting AI should work (each step only considered if multiple targets remain after all previous steps): 1) Prioritize champions over (aggro'd) monsters, and monsters over minions. 2) Prioritize targets to which a spell effect could be applied by the hit. 3) Prioritize targets which would not suffer from the 50% penalty for being attacked by multiple plants. 4) Prioritize the target Zyra has most recently autoattacked. 5) Prioritize the target closest to the plant.
: Happy you asked! 1. New Q shape has a couple reasons -- first, the bigger rectangle lets her stretch to get more of her new passive seeds; it would be tough to spawn many plants with the old shape. Second, it being a rectangle adds a bit more play to the spell -- a circle is used roughly the same way in most situations, now it changes a bit depending on what angle you're approaching the fight from. Lastly, people dodging your E have to move side to side, so the new Q shape has some neat synergy there. 2. Rylai's/Liandry's is probably still best on her; we don't think the CDR loss should effect this too much given most folks ranked her W third. This seems like a good one to watch though. 3. Seed spawn range is based on walked distance, so they can spawn around corners a short way but typically won't. (EDIT)If Zyra is hiding in a bush, the passive will wait to spawn seeds until she leaves or casts a spell. If enemies can't see Zyra, they won't see the placement missile or where the seed came from -- they'll only see it when it appears. 4. When Zyra begins casting Q or E, all seeds that will become plants flash for her -- enemies don't see this currently. If it turns out they do need that clarity to be able to fight Zyra, we can certainly add it for them too; we haven't yet mainly because Zyra puts lots of stuff on the screen as is, so we wanted to keep particle clutter to a minimum. 5. Intended. With so many plants on the field now -- 4-6 is pretty common -- having all those range indicators gets really really messy xD
> [{quoted}](name=20thCenturyFaux,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=dGijBlXB,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2016-04-19T21:47:16.301+0000) > 4. When Zyra begins casting Q or E, all seeds that will become plants flash for her -- enemies don't see this currently. If it turns out they do need that clarity to be able to fight Zyra, we can certainly add it for them too; we haven't yet mainly because Zyra puts lots of stuff on the screen as is, so we wanted to keep particle clutter to a minimum. 2 things about this: 1) The seeds don't flash until you've already started casting the spell, which means you can't take the information into account when choosing where to cast. I'd rather have the plant-spawn AoE shown on the range indicator. 2) It appears the flash area extends slightly beyond the spawn area, as I once saw a seed flash but not spawn a plant (using Q if I recall correctly).
: MYMU - Zyra discussion
I really like that the new passive gives free seeds and how we now have both a horizontal and vertical line skillshot to trigger plant spawns with. However, the passive currently feels really random, to the point that the deciding factor between success and failure feels more like luck than skill. I'd suggest having the passive spawn a seed under the mouse cursor instead of at a random location in range, but if that's not an option, then I think reducing the range of the ability would at least make the duds less extremely far from a useful location. Also, I think having the Q and E spawn plants outside of their damage zone is not a fundamentally bad idea, but right now it can be extremely hard to tell whether or not a plant will arise from a given seed, which makes it very difficult to plan combos.
: ‘Ultra Rapid Fire’ game mode live on PBE for Rotating Game Mode queue testing.
: > If an item/champion/ or stat in the game does not have it's place in a higher tier of play and is only used within casual play then I think it should be balanced and maintained around that very idea of casual play rather than discarding it for not being used. It's not that the stat or item had a place in high tiers of play or low tiers of play. It's that this stat in the itemization system has created situations where we have to make sure that the early games of any characters who had any potential access to it basically terrible. Effectively, what this means is that in order to balance it for high tiers of play - it has to be absolutely terrible in low tiers of play. This wasn't 'Spell Vamp' wasn't balance-able at higher tiers of play - this was - Well, that means that this champion has absolutely crush or get destroyed in the first 1200 Gold of the game - because otherwise, they have (duo) infinite resources. We've tried to fix this in various forms over 4 years - but the accumulated damage to champions thus far hasn't been worth it. Spell Vamp via the item system has a serious problem in that it becomes linked to gold.
I get what you're saying, and it makes sense. Although I would prefer to have Will of the Ancients as my primary sustain item on mages that deal lots of magic damage through abilities and little damage otherwise, between the retention of Omnivamp on Gunblade, and the reworked passives on Catalyst and Chalice, I think there will be enough options for most champions to itemize for sustain in situations where they need to. Let's talk Soraka. A Soraka whose team is winning has no need of spellvamp. A Soraka whose team is losing has very limited options for restoring her health pool which is critically important to performing her core function of healing her teammates. A Soraka who can't heal her team is not going to be very useful in helping her team turn around a losing game. Prior to the introduction of Rejuvenation in her recent rework, as the need for her to perform healing increased in chaotic teamfights, so did the ability of a skilled Soraka player to sustain her health pool by landing Starcall on multiple enemy champions. After the introduction of Rejuvenation, WotA became the linchpin of my defensive itemization on Soraka because spell damage on her 2 damaging abilities scales with the number of champions hit, WotA's reworked passive does not require magic pen to be effective, and % base health regen items are not viable on Soraka due to her extremely low base health regen. With the removal of WotA, I have to reexamine her sustain options. The new Chalice passive is not good for her, because the health regen portion will have little effect with her low base regen stat. Lifesteal items are not good for her because buying attack damage stats isn't really compatible with her kit or intended play patterns. The reworked Catalyst (which is very cool), Spirit Visage, and Warmog's do have passives that work on her, but they also increase her maximum health, which in turn increases the health costs she has to pay for healing, which acts against the goal of improving her self-sustain. Furthermore, Warmog's passive only applies when no damage is taken, encouraging a risk-averse playstyle that, as I understand it, was considered so toxic for the game that it prompted another Soraka rework to reduce the effectiveness of healing without first successfully landing a Starcall. The playstyle I fell in love with, however, is high-risk, is high-reward, depends on skillful execution, and is vulnerable to skillful counterplay and to true damage (/fistshake). I build AP, mana regen, CDR, armor, and MR, and I keep my maximum health at a minimum (which sadly means not helping my team out with a sightstone, as much as I would like to). The recent Soraka rework generally hurt Soraka's sustain and made my preferred risky playstyle into a "win more" playstyle, though this could be mitigated with WotA. Now that WotA is being removed, I find myself, for the first time ever, grudgingly considering switching over to the passive playstyle and building Rod of Ages and Warmog's. I really don't want to do that. So, what can be done? I think issues with a single champion are best resolved by adjusting that Champion's stats and kit, rather than by adjusting the item ecosystem. The nerfs to Soraka's base health regen were performed before her recent rework, so it might be worth considering reverting that nerf to turn % base health regen items into sustain options worth considering on her. Rejuvenation could be made to stack, at least on Soraka herself, so that in chaotic teamfights featuring Tons of Damage (TM), skillfully targeted Starcalls could once again help Soraka's self-sustain to scale with the need for healing. The health cost on Astral Infusion could be reduced, although it might be tricky to do that in a way that retains Soraka's usefulness in teamfights when playing from behind without making her overpowered in other situations.
: Afk warning
Leavebuster isn't smart enough to be able to tell the difference between going AFK and sitting in front of your computer without touching it. Be careful when waiting for an item at the fountain / camping in brush for extended periods of time.
: [League client update] Alpha Client Suggestion(?)
Similar issue, after champ select finished, the client went back to the lobby as though the game had failed to make and I was put back in the matchmaking queue. The game client took about 21 seconds to open, during which I was confused and considered closing the client (but chose not to). There was a visual indication that I was in game for X seconds (even before the game client loaded), but it was not obvious and I wouldn't have found it without specifically looking around for clues as to what was happening.
: Of course it solves the problem. They use that phrase all the time. > [Frost Armor (Passive): Damaging an enemy with an ability or basic attack grants Sejuani 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 bonus armor and 10 / 15 / 20 / 25% slow resistance for 2 seconds, increased by an additional 2 seconds per instance of damage up to a maximum of 8 seconds, **with further damage refreshing the duration.**](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Sejuani) . > [Miasma (W): Cassiopeia releases a toxic cloud that grows in size over 7 seconds. Enemies in the cloud are Poisoned for 2 seconds, causing them to take 10/15/20/25/30 (+10% Ability Power) magic damage each second and be slowed by 25/30/35/40/45%. **The cloud continually reapplies this Poison to enemies within it.**](http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/cassiopeia/) . > [Dread (Passive): Fiddlesticks's abilities reduce his targets' magic resistance by 10 for 2.5 seconds, **with subsequent casts refreshing the duration.**](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Fiddlesticks) Nobody would call any of these "false advertising." You're just underestimating people's reading comprehension. Oh, and as for why I was figuring out the total value of the HoT in-game, it's because the base values vary depending on Q's level, I didn't know exactly how much AP I would have at any given level because the amount of gold you have at each level varies from game to game, and I didn't know my exact build route ahead of time, because this is the PBE. I did, in fact, [try to figure out how much AP I would need at a given level beforehand.](https://gyazo.com/aa716b7842a52d25fb1798ae4d25940a) I hope you'll excuse me for deciding to play it by ear instead of trying to meticulously plan out the whole thing.
Not one of the examples you cited mentions a total effect value in the tooltip description. You're comparing apples to oranges. The closest example you cited is Cassiopia's W, which mentions damage _per second_, not total damage, and thus remains an accurate description regardless of whether or not the effect is applied for the full duration. As for doing the math in-game, hey man, you do you. You clearly have put a lot more effort and precision into that than I have. But, I still don't understand why you would want to, since "more is better", and because it's much easier to just cast once and observe the result....
: > "Reapplying Rejuvenation refreshes its duration." An extra five-word sentence seems like a small price to pay for not having to multiply the tooltip value by 4.72 (4 secs, Windspeaker's Blessing, Runic Armor) in the middle of the game.
That sentence does not adequately solve the problem. Also, there is no need to perform multiplication mid-game. A little pre-game preparation is more than sufficient. This post proposes to unnecessarily complicate the tooltip to work around some players' (frankly baffling) decision to try to perform multiplication in the middle of a game rather than outside of one.
: Soraka tooltip- total rejuvenation heal
The total heal amount can vary depending on how frequently rejuvenation is reapplied, i.e. if it's reapplied before it elapses, the healing amount will be less than the maximum possible. Putting the maximum possible total heal in the tooltip would be kinda like false advertising unless it was explicitly explained in the tooltip that the total healing could be less if rejuvenation was reapplied before it wore off. A better place for this suggestion would be the LoL wikia.
: Soraka Rejuvenation - Champion Feel Feedback
> [{quoted}](name=Ave Machina,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=I1vbKX91,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-03-01T00:57:57.295+0000) > > * Rejuvenation should not leave a trail when moving towards enemies - it should only leave a trail when the speed boost is applied, like Janna's passive. This! There should be 3 distinct visuals regarding the Rejuvenation buff: 1) Buff not applied. 2) Buff applied, speed boost inactive. 3) Buff applied, speed boost active.
: Why I feel that the Soraka changes were bad for Counterplay against Soraka, and hurt her 'feel'
I disagree with changing the movespeed buff to 60% over 1 second from 20% of 3 seconds. For one thing, that 1 second might not be when you want/need the movespeed buff, and with rejuvenation triggering on the return of a particle, that just makes timing the boost more difficult. For another, concentrating the movespeed buff would reduce its effectiveness because of the stepdown formula that movespeed uses.
: I'm just not seeing where the 20% MS compliments her kit. It just seems like something tacked on like "Well, we need to let her do *something* else. How about an unreliable movement speed buff?" At least the mana regen part fit with her kit and created a nice minigame out of her Q's.
The movespeed buff combined with the wider AoE on her slow make it much easier for her (and possibly 1 friend) to chase down and kill a fleeing enemy. I actually feel like she's better at chasing than healing right now....
: Direction For Soraka
I feel like the PBE Soraka changes are very gradually approaching something reasonably coherent, so I disagree with that "NO direction" comment. It feels more like there's a target in mind, but uncertainty about how to reach that target. I think at this point, simply reducing or removing the health cost on W might do the trick. Although, the idea of introducing a grey hp mechanic is rather interesting. I would try something like, each cast of W reduces her max hp by 10%, gaining grey hp to mark the loss. Q increases her max hp by X% of her grey hp, where X is 10 x the number of enemy champions hit, losing grey hp to mark the gain. Visiting the fountain while out of combat increases her max hp by her grey hp and removes all grey hp.
: Windspeaker's blessing does not affect self heals. You don't get 18% more effective heals on yourself with Runic Armor mastery. Tbh Soraka is the biggest problem is this all. No other support healer benefits as much from these changes as her. If you ask me Riot should make some changes to Soraka now that grevious wounds isn't applied to her heals.
Agreed that Soraka probably benefits the most from the healing enhancements, because healing is so central to her kit that she is only effective when she's healing constantly. Riot has hinted they are going to be making changes to her, but I hope they are just some numbers tweaks rather than a complete overhaul. IMO, she is strong, but not broken, as she can be starved by dodging her starcalls or shut down by CC. ... I say probably because while Soraka heals often, she does not provide AoE healing aside from her ultimate. Compare to champions like Lux and especially Alistar who can proc the resistance bonus on their entire team every few seconds.
: > [{quoted}](name=Anrita,realm=PBE,application-id=AYQh7p7O,discussion-id=3qWEj48G,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-08T13:47:14.345+0000) > > Your first and second points kind of counter each other. A player who gets experience with multiple roles will have an improved strategic sense of the game over a player who only focuses on one or two roles, whereas a player that focuses on only one or two roles will have more finely tuned mechanics for those roles. Seems to me that the two advantages balance each other out. Experience in your bad roles is way less beneficial for your performence in your main role, than your main role can be potentially better than your bad roles. Someone with a 60% win rate in his main role and a 40% win rate in other roles, will climb massively, if he can play this role every time, until the win rate in his main role drops to 50% (and he is completely unable to play anything else). Maybe he would be a little bit better, if he would play other roles too. But if he would do that in ranked this positive effect would be completely whitewashed by his bad performances in his bad roles. What I say is, that it is boring to play everytime the same. But it is the best thing to gain elo. And what I say is that playing everything makes you a better player OVERALL, but this doesn't matter in a ranked system, where you never have to play 3 roles. > On your third point, you're right that champion picks and bans can influence champion selection so that players would want to change roles, but the new matchmaking allows us to do this. Nothing about the new system prevents teammates from trading positions. Sure, you will still be labeled with the position you queued in as, but nothing forces you to play that position once the game starts. Teammates can simply agree to a trade in the lobby and there's no problem. There is a problem. If I change the position with someone, it is likely that the other person is a little bit worse in his new position, because he wanted originally a different position. At the same time everyone in the enemy team can get his main position. So my team has a disadvantage in the average case. In the current system this is a little bit different: If I change my mind before I select a champion, it doesn't matter at all. My team members doesn't even notice it. there is no disadvantage for my team in the average. Of course sometimes someone else wants the position that I picked, but the same thing can happen in the enemy team. So there is really no regular effect. The new system will help somewhere and it will be disturbing in other places. But rules, which have positive and negative effects, should not be intruduced in general. When in doubt a natural state is better than a overregulated state. In the new champion selection, what can someone do, who doesn't want to play a against a specific champion in lane, which the enemy has picked? He can try to trade. If nobody wants to trade he can change his position nonetheless. And he can try to push someone into dodging. And he can dodge himself. And I wouldn't blame him for anything because the system is wrong.
Skill with other roles and champions does matter even when you're not playing those roles and champions. The more you understand how your teammates and opponents play, the better able you are to coordinate team plays and outplay your opponents. Win rate is a function of how well you can decide what play to make and how well you can perform that play. Experience with other roles and champions can definitely improve the former if not the latter. As for your second point, "but the same thing can happen in the enemy team. So there is really no regular effect", is equally applicable to the new system as to the old. Both teams are equally likely to encounter a situation where switching roles would be advantageous. Furthermore, you say that changing your mind in traditional champ select doesn't matter at all, but it does... it's just less obvious. People have their own experiences and preferences either way, it's just that the new system makes them more formally transparent and helps to prevent conflicts within teams. Being equally skilled at every champion isn't going to help you more than having 2 adc mains on your team when your opposing team had one main for each position is going to hurt you. By preventing that kind of situation, the new champ select reduces the random factor of matchmaking and makes progression more skill-based. Moreover, none of the problems you complain about in the new system don't already exist in the classic system. If you want to say it's wrong because of them, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but I remain unconvinced.
: Why the role selection before champion selection is wrong
Your first and second points kind of counter each other. A player who gets experience with multiple roles will have an improved strategic sense of the game over a player who only focuses on one or two roles, whereas a player that focuses on only one or two roles will have more finely tuned mechanics for those roles. Seems to me that the two advantages balance each other out. On your third point, you're right that champion picks and bans can influence champion selection so that players would want to change roles, but the new matchmaking allows us to do this. Nothing about the new system prevents teammates from trading positions. Sure, you will still be labeled with the position you queued in as, but nothing forces you to play that position once the game starts. Teammates can simply agree to a trade in the lobby and there's no problem. As for your fourth point, it absolutely does. I remember that when the community asked Riot to build an improved matchmaking system to put an end to the raging in champ select over disputed roles, they were initially hesitant to do so for exactly this reason, but decided to make Teambuilder as a way to allow structured matchmaking while allowing experimentation with different team arrangements. Personally, I really like Teambuilder, but I'm guessing that Riot looked at the data and saw that the vast majority of players were just following the meta. Also, I think it's fair to say that most players who go into draft selection games without a prearranged team do so with the expectation that the other players they're matching up with will follow the meta to some extent. Does that suck? Yeah, kind of, especially when we've seen creative meta-breaking comps outplay traditional meta-following comps in high profile games. But, I think those kinds of new and diverse strategies are much more likely to be successful when they're carefully though out ahead of time, and in my opinion, to get everyone to understand and agree to that kind of unusual strategy generally requires more time.
: Anti crit and on-hit items?
It's an interesting idea, but getting a crit shouldn't be a worse result for the attacker than not getting a crit. Something like "reduces bonus damage from critical strikes by %" might work.
: As I said, I usually do this the old fashion way. Nevertheless, I also think this would get less motivated or newer people to make posts about what they found. The art of suggestion can do a lot. For example, someone who wasn't going to report a small bug (say MF's hearts turned black on her classic skin), sees the "sticky note" pop up on their end game screen. They ignore it and move on. Later, they think about why the sticky was there, make their way to the boards, find the topic about MF's skin and upvote it. Even this small change in behaviour can result in an exponential growth in feedback for Riot. On the other hand, if Riot is not having a problem with quality (Important: not quantity) feedback, then I agree. Let's just have us use pen and paper and screenshots.
I expect Rioters are too busy building new content for the game and fixing bugs to design, implement, and debug a whole new feature that wouldn't even get migrated to the live servers.
: Help us bugtest the new Champ Select!
I just experienced a client freeze as described in the OP, but it happened about a second after I pressed the "Launch" button to join the queue. The client froze during the animation to display the role selection UI. I took a screenshot, but I don't know how to post it into these comments.
: Hmm. I've currently been in queue for over 30 minutes. 4 people have dodged. I've never had this problem with the old draft, something needs to be changed. There's way to many ways people are able to be booted/kicked from the game.
Well, it is a work in progess. No need to redesign the timers until the bugs are worked out. Anyway, adding more strict time limits would only increase the likelihood of people failing to make a selection in time, meaning you'd be more likely to get kicked back to the waiting queue if your suggestion were implemented.
: Long Lobby (Dodgers)
I don't think the times need to be shortened. People can lock in before the timer expires, and if they don't, it could be because they're thinking about the choice and/or discussing it with their team. It does suck when people dodge, but as often as not, I find that I get matched up quickly to a new game.
: LeaverBuster Warning
Yeah, the LoL client is not very robust at handling disconnects. Of course, the ideal scenario would be to not get disconnected in the first place, but even after doing everything possible to get a reliable connection (sometimes Riot Support can help with this), you can't guarantee that an occasional disconnect won't occur, because you don't own and control the entire internet. So, based on my experiences, I'll offer some advice. On the loading screen, watch the % completion and ping numbers. Any time you see at least one of those numbers change, you know you're still connected, so you should just keep waiting. Even if it seems like none of the numbers are changing, I still suggest you wait about a minute before deciding that you've been disconnected, but you can tab over to your web browser to check that you're still connected to the internet while you wait. If you can access websites, it doesn't necessarily mean that you haven't lost your connection to the game, but if you can't get responses from any web servers, then you know there's a problem. If you do get disconnected, don't trust the game client or PvP.net to reconnect you to the game. Sometimes they will, but other times they won't, and they will never tell you when they won't. Just completely exit out of everything, ignoring all warnings telling you not to leave, then relaunch and login from scratch. Doing so costs precious time, but it's faster than waiting with false hope of the game reconnecting and then having to login from scratch anyway.
: sure the mastery itself may come handy, but the problem is that you have to invest the points to get there, which arguably in the larger scale of things, balance off anything you might gain from stormraider's surge. because you're a damage dealer with utility masteries.
You can't put all your points in one tree, though. Going 18/12/0 or 12/18/0 only differs on the final 2 rows. Both trees offer defense penetration on the 5th row, and in some cases Precision will actually get you more damage than Battering Blows or Piercing Thoughts. Plus, the combination of Bounty Hunter and Merciless could be quite potent.
: Player left room but game lobby continued.
I just played a game where I saw this message for one of my teammates a few seconds before the game started. The game does start with a player missing, leading to 4v5 goodness. Edit: OP didn't explicitly state it, so for searchability: we're talking about the new champ / champion select feature.
: I am wondering if the "pick intent" might lead to people purposely banning an intended pick in case of an unpopular champ or a champ that is non-meta for the selected role ("please no Teemo jungle"). This means that when you would like to play such a champ you would need to "lie" in the intended pick phase, which is defeating the purpose of providing an intended pick. I know this is not a bug but a concern, but I did not know where to post this except for this thread :-)
You don't have to pick an intended champ. The room proceeds to the ban stage even if some players didn't pick one. No need to lie.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Anrita,realm=PBE,application-id=A4D2003433C8FCD715185A7264A9CC6FDFAD7FEF,discussion-id=5JJ63UJg,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-03T02:29:41.933+0000) > > This is the result of buying the (now removed) rune bundle multiple times. Customer support can fix it, but if you encountered this problem without buying the bundle, you should try to explain in detail how it happened.. i just hit buy botton once and froze like 10-15 seconds and then when i checked my rune page there were 72. 9x is max right?
Yeah, the system is not supposed to allow and can't properly handle having more than 9 runes of the same type.
: > [{quoted}](name=Battle Rage,realm=PBE,application-id=A4D2003433C8FCD715185A7264A9CC6FDFAD7FEF,discussion-id=5JJ63UJg,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-03T01:45:27.305+0000) > > Uhhhhh it says 22 armor 8.5 physical damage 12 MR look at Gylphs and runes attached to page = 72
This is the result of buying the (now removed) rune bundle multiple times. Customer support can fix it, but if you encountered this problem without buying the bundle, you should try to explain in detail how it happened..
: [Team Builder] Cannot be closed
I don't believe this problem is specific to Team Builder. I have occasionally encountered this problem on live, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't only with the Team Builder queue. I have no idea how to reproduce the problem, though, as it seems to happen randomly.
: Eye of the Oasis is underwhelming.
Soraka is my favorite support, and I wouldn't take Eye of the Oasis on her. The Favor passive _is_ attractive, but I'm not sure it's worth the cost. For one thing, the 150% health regen is mostly wasted on her because her base health regen is so low. For another, the +200 health from the Sightstone hurts her self-sustain because the health she sacrifices scales with her max health and the health she recovers does not (the health recovered from successfully landing a Starcall does scale with missing health, but that's not as good as maximum health and her other methods of healing don't scale with her health at all)... though this, sadly, is a problem with all of the Warding items except for Tracker's Knife....
: So for single target spells it has a 3 second cool down, and for AOE spells it has a 1.5 second cool down.
Not exactly; that would create gaps in the DoT effect because you wouldn't be able to reapply it consistently at the exactly moment effect wore off and the cooldown finished. It's a non-stacking DoT effect that has to be refreshed within 3 or 1.5 seconds to maintain maximum dps. At most, Deathfire can deal its listed damage 10 times in the 30 seconds it takes Thunderlord's to cooldown, regardless of whether you're dealing AoE or single-target spell damage, so it does have the same hard limit on damage as if it had the cooldowns you describe, but it is easier to reach that limit. In regards to the OP's question, Thunderlord's base damage scales from 10-180 as you level while Deathfire's base damage remains a flat 6, meaning that it's dps is strictly better on champions that build very little AD and AP. It's also a lot easier/safer to poke an enemy with a 3-hit volley once every 30 seconds than it is to maintain continuous spell damage for a full 30 seconds. Dealing damage gradually over time is also more easily countered by shields and heals. I think the two abilities each serve a certain niche, with Deathfire favoring sustained damage and Thunderlord's favoring burst damage.
: We need to discuss the Thunderlord's Dance mastery on Sona.
The description of Thunderlord's Decree states it has a 30 second cooldown. Sona shouldn't be able to trigger it every 8 seconds.
: It should be noted that Thunderlord's almost always deals more damage because of the scaling base damage.
For a single proc of either mastery, that seems to be the case. But, under optimal circumstances, the damage from Deathfire can be applied 10 times over the 30 second cooldown on Thunderlord's. According to my math, assuming that both abilities are triggered as often as possible by a level 18 champion, the dps of Thunderlord's and Deathfire break even at around 63 AP with no bonus AD or around 25 AD with no bonus AP. Having more AD/AP heavily favors Deathfire. Of course, in an actual game, circumstances often are not optimal. It's a lot easier for most champions to land 3 damaging abilities and/or basic attacks than it is to deal 30 seconds of continuous ability damage, and spreading damage out over a 30 second window leaves a lot of opportunity for counterplay compared to a 3-hit burst that could easily take less than a second. So, for how many seconds would a level 18 mage with 600 AP and 0 bonus AD have to burn with Deathfire to break even with a proc of Thunderlord's? According to my math, about 5.7. With 300 bonus AD and no AP, it would take about 4.6 seconds. So, I think Deathfire is better for continuous sustained damage and Thunderlord's is better for occasional bursts of damage.
: I don't understand what you mean?
He's saying that if you keep reapplying it, the damage can be dealt continually, so effectively you never have to wait on a cooldown.
: No, it is not a bug. Due to everyone with a PBE account wanting to play on it, it takes quite a while to get through. Depending on when you log in, it can take anywhere from 5 minutes to 1 hour or even more. From personal experience, just wait it out. Maybe read through the boards or watch your favorite League steamer while you wait. Hope this helped!
If you log on at certain times, there's no queue at all. Wait times seem to be longest in the evenings and shortest in the mornings.
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Anrita

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