Rioter Comments
: Xayah and Rakan Feedback Thread
For me Xayah's character seems kinda inconsistent, torn between the edgy teen and the chaotic/freedom fighter themes. It would have been much better/cooler if she were focused on one or the other. I am not even sure if the two are compatible to begin with, or if it's just a case of poor execution, but it leaves me wishing she were either one or the other.
: Randuin's is possibly too weak in this version, though it still is the strongest of the HP/Armor items defensively, and has the lowest price point. As mentioned very briefly, there are some possible change to penetration coming that perhaps will help with this concern. One thing I didn't get into in the main post (but am happy to here) is that the removal of Crit Damage Reduction from Randuin's is intended to head off and/or defuse some power creep in the shop, especially since crit users are generally supposed to be successful at dealing damage to tanks. Some of these changes may result in outlier champions that have special crit interactions, and in that case, we'll need to address those case by case.
Very good! I like that you recognize that crit itemization is being held back by a few special cases that can abuse the stat. I also really hope that you are having a closer look at Bloodthrister after the BotrK buff, as the item is in a terrible state right now.
: Xayah and Rakan Feedback Thread
Sooo... am I the only one who listened through all the voice lines? I don't mind edgy, but isn't this the most swearing any champion has ever had? I mean did Riot's creativity run out after Kled? Since they actually managed to dodge all the profanity there, but kinda missed the mark on this duo?
Rioter Comments
: I think what makes Warlord's Bloodlust appealing to Yasuo and Tryndamere is the extra 30% movement speed that they get to prevent extra trades from going in, or when they go in for a trade.
I don't think the movement speed on it's own is what makes the keystone appealing. We don't see other champions picking it up only for the MS. The focus of the mastery from it's release was crits. In fact that focus was removed exactly because Yas & Trynd could utilize the mastery better than marksmen and the mastery ended up overnerfed for marksmen and balanced for the abusers. That was before the first rework. In this recent Iteration, we see a clear return to the crit theme. Therefore it is important to not forget about champions like GP, Trynd & Yas, who heavily favor building crit, when examining how the mastery will be utilized on live.
: Giving to anyone a Yasuo passive is probably not a good idea xD EDIT: Aynyway, i understand your point, and i appreciate that you are trying to make that more appling on marksman and less on fighters, but that idea is a bit too risky, just the first ADC getting a lead and 50% crit chance will have a garanteed crit every time WL is stacked xD At the same time, this is a better idea than riot's one giving Yasuo an almost 100% total AD lifesteal on WL every time(he alwasy crits) xD
I like to think of it more as removing some of the RNG for marksman at the start of fights. During the rest of the fight the extra Crit shouldn't really matter (since we are mostly talking about 50% crit builds), it should only serve to normalize the hp amount the champion can expect to receive for the proccing auto.
: Since when is Yasuo and Tryndamere abusing Warlord's a problem? Fervor has been strong on both of the champions for a while now...
In the past we have had time and again seen that Yasuo and Tryndamere can make use of crit based buffs that were primarily aimed at marksmen. This had lead to the buffs promptly being removed and/or Yas & Trynd getting nerfs. This is something I don't like to see happen. That said even with this change there is potential for abuse, but it should present a tradeoff for Yas & Trynd once they start approaching a certain point in their respective builds. Whereas, given the current build patterns of ADCs it should naturally scale with their builds and also knock off a bit of the RNG at the start of a fight for most ADCs. You see - Tradeoffs =)
: Jinx buffs are too much but also in the wrong direction.
Yes, please fix rockets disappearing after she launches them. Actually fix this for all range champions. A missile already in flight should land. They aren't melee attacks to be cancelable before they hit. It is terribly confusing to hear a projectile land, move and than realize it didn't hit. Those crucial milliseconds you lose, that should be spent ramping up your next auto are instead utilized in animating the first all over and at best mean you lose out on a chunk of your main damage. At worst you die, loosing the trade by that 1 auto. Imagine if a point and lick spell got canceled by movement. That champion would be disabled the next day and a fix would be pushed through as fast as possible. How are ADCs different? Just because every other champion has autos doesn't change the fact, that autos are supposed to be an ADC's main damage source of damage.
Rioter Comments
: Scaling Lifesteal wasn't a bad idea if it was too strong during the early game phase. However, having to charge it only to get a weak reward for one auto attack per discharge makes it unappealing to me. By the time that it will be worthwhile to charge it, I will already have bought a LS item that rewards me for every auto attack. Since the heal is now amplified by crits, it might be useful for those who tend to build crit without lifesteal.
I should clarify probably... I meant that the increased effect on Crits is unreliable, it requires either 100% Crit or you will mostly be gambling on getting a Crit on the energized attack, or risk death in an already harsh Environment for ADCs. This makes it an amazing change for Yasuo players, but not so amazing for ADCs, who still stray from Crit builds due to better alternatives, or rather the inefficient state of Crit itemization. Maybe if the energized attack was somehow a guaranteed Crit, or if the Lifesteal itself scaled with Crit chance instead of scoring a Crit at the right time... BTW it just occurred to me that this change will make the mastery a problem on Yasuo again... Maybe Fiora and GP as well. I really have no good idea for getting around the Yasuo issue.
: I hope this is accidental because jungle has been hit so many times and for no reason. It's almost to a point where jungling is a role you want to skip. Even duo top seems more viable at this point.
It's not for no reason. Even the currently popular jungle picks, after all these "hits" you mentioned, have a lot of power to influence the outcome of the game. Compared to other lanes their agency is annoyingly extraordinary, to the point of being overreaching. Their generous margin for error and ability to adapt to the map in multiple ways is also pretty out there, though I do admit these last two mostly depends on the champion.
Rioter Comments
: it's supposed to be late game sustain it scales up to like 68% at level 18 i love the MS buff too, it works wonders for champs who can't burst for SRS
I am also of the opinion that the early game low impact of this mastery will make it so nobody picks it up. Even if the alternative may make it abusable by things other than ADCs (mostly junglers). In any case Crit and attack modifying abilities should be the things that allow the mastery to scale naturally on its own into the late game, not this built in scaling. Even if I understand the reasons behind why the currently live Warlord's bloodlust's effect is slashed against monsters and minions I don't like how the problem was 'artificially' patched up in the first place. The fact that a new version of the mastery is up on the PBE now shows that those sort of changes weren't a good fix in the first place. I think the mastery should start from either 5% or 14% at level 1 (up to the current 50%) and the "charge" should only accumulate when attacking champions and for moving while engaged in combat with an enemy champion, so as to make the mastery a clear choice for champions that prefer prolonged trades, instead of being a tool for sustain in lane, rewarding simply moving around. This should also bring the Keystone closer mechanically to Fervor of Battle in that both masteries will be geared towards extended engages and make it so they closer present an alternative to each-other. Alternatively, the "charge" can be made to rapidly decay when out of combat, and only accumulate when in combat and such a change will still achieve a similar result. Also I haven't tested it on things like {{champion:23}} or {{champion:157}} or with items like {{item:3085}} or {{item:3124}} yet, but mobility skills and hurricane-like effects shouldn't accumulate charge. I think we've learned this from how Yasuo's shield used to charge before.
: Could you try the new Bond of Stone in the utility tree (as a 4th keystone)
I don't think the mastery is intended for casters with CC. it strikes me as being designed for the likes of {{champion:412}} and {{champion:89}} . Although the former and a number of casters presently get picked in bot, the latter and the like have been struggling against the meta supports. I think this mastery is meant to give champions like Leona a good choice for a team oriented defensive mastery.
: Lucian "Buff"
Lucian isn't the only one with this problem. Even though you may seem to think otherwise. Vayne suffers from the same problem, where she can't get into AA range without risking death and she is by no means the only one. The currently popular ADCs ({{champion:202}} {{champion:110}} {{champion:22}} ) work because they get around this problem, by having abilities with the range to stay out of the kill zone of the enemy team and still contribute in a meaningful way (or at least, more meaningful than other ADCs). I don't believe that these champions working at a higher range is the problem though. Rather it is the fact that ADCs, when on their own, lack to tools to effectively contribute to a fight with their AAs. Among other purely EXTERNAL factors, marksman often require things like a front line, or CC setup form their teammats to perform up to their potential. This apparent and often unfun lack of self sufficient agency of AA reliant ADCs is one of the factors that has pushed the currently popular long range/utility ADCs to the front. The other thing is most definitely how much better Lethality items are compared to the longs standing "defult" options for ADCs, in almost all regards weather it be in terms the offensive, defensive or utility. I am therefore a bit disappointed at how the Lethality itemization is slowly but being brought down to compete with crit itemization, where it is blatantly obvious, to me at least, that it should go the other way around.
: Tanks are a fucking joke in League, why build tank if an adc can kill you in 5 seconds? Ap casters are still good, that's why.
Because then ADC (barring a few mages with sustained AP damage (like {{champion:69}} {{champion:268}} ) will still be the only ones, that can deal with them in an optimal way. This makes it so, that a tank needs to take careful appraisal of how he wants to engage. If he can CC the AD and have follow up, or catch someone else on the AD's team out, only then would it be a free engage. As it stands now Tanks don't need to make such a choice. Their choice is mostly "am I tanky enough?": -no: wait for a better opportunity; -yes: dive dive dive (mostly repeatedly and without the need for much backup. Talking about champs like {{champion:57}} {{champion:111}} in the present meta.).
: I apologize. I thought your post was aimed towards buffing less powerful champions because of the argued interaction.
No, it actually is. xD The reason why I wanted to frame what I mean by "interaction" was so I could make the parallel between what was used in the past as justification for change and how we may be in a similar situation right now, where the currently unpopular ADCs get punished way too hard for "interacting". That and the fact, that nerfing the champions that get around this problem will not solve it, but only serve to push ADs further into that "don't interact or die" spot. I am therefore feeling a bit unhappy bout the recent live changes to Jhin and Youmus. As for what just came to the PBE, I feel that the Edge of Night, Varus and Ashe changes were easy to see coming, but I feel they are a step in the wrong direction. I am however optimistic about the BotRK changes and think those could shake things up, but ultimately won't be enough, as they won't affect the state of crit builds to a significant extent.
: No, nerf lethality, it's the most broken thing to ever exist.
If it really is the Stat that's OP, why aren't we seeing AD casters (champions like {{champion:91}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:80}} ) push out AP from the meta? We have seen a resurgence of {{champion:104}} {{champion:121}} and {{champion:238}}, but not to an extent where they are crowding out other choices. In fact I've seem people pick really beefy tanks, things like {{champion:57}} and {{champion:33}} recently to counterplay the Lethality builds. This is also why i believe the interaction between Lethality and tankyness is in an interesting spot right now.
: Nidalee hasn't had any changes this PBE Cycle. Balance suggestions for Live content should be posted on the [NA](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/) and [EUW](http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/) boards or [Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/). The PBE is for content **currently** in testing.
I mentioned Nidalee to illustrate what I'm reffering to when mentioning "interaction". Also, unless I'm mistaken, there was a nerf to Youmus Ghosblade up for testing recently, as well as a nerf to Jhin's Curtain call. Which let me believe that Riot seems to think that that particular Lethality item and Lethality using champion are a bit over the top. Edit: Now that I read through the patch notes, that came out today I guess my post came at the eleventh hour.
Rioter Comments
: Yeah you're right. Singed's and Udyr's dashes are extremely annoying to deal with
I'm not sure if these two qualify under "played", but they do on the odd occasion build tanky and should therefore fall under the above mentioned "infinite surviveability" category. I by no means have any illusions that there exists a champion that can survive forever under fire, simply by tanking it... Oh well maybe {{champion:78}}, but still, what I mean by infinite surviveability is the phenomenon, where a tank will absolutely not be killable by an enemy carry in the mid game, until they deliver their offensive payload, provided said tank is even or ahead.
Rioter Comments
: That solves nothing considering its mostly melee champions that has the mobility creep in the first place
^ This. Ghost is presently one of the few ways remaining for ranged champions to deal with the endless dashes, blinks, or otherwise infinite surviveability. that every successful (read: played) melee champion has nowadays.
: Banning New and Reworked Champions
How about having One for all active when new content is released? For testing purposes?
: Good point. But I would still argue, that if it scales with bonus HP it would change "everything" for such champions. It would at the very least mean that they would need to build HP first, if they want to prioritize scaling the mastery. This makes things like Runic Echoes (in the case of {{champion:154}} ) or Frozen Gauntlet ({{champion:78}} ) as a first item a real choice when picking up the mastery. It also opens the door for the devs to balance itemization for tanks by adjusting the HP difference between offensive Items with HP on them, pure tank items and hybrid items. Furthermore it cuts down the mastery's power early game by a significant margin, posing the logical question for any would be takers of the mastery - can I survive an early game with a potentially weaker mastery than the alternatives, to have a chance to reap the rewards when/if I scale up? You should keep in mind, that the goal of this mastery is indeed to make champions harder to kill. I think however, that in an ideal world tanks should be able to take a beating, but instead of how it is now, that they are able to solo the back line, they should instead use their tankyness to setup and create an opening for their own backline. Actually to that end, now that I think about it, it may be a good idea, to let this mastery reward "Big plays". What I mean by that is, let it proc the higher value shield only for each CC-d target, instead of each enemy around you when you use your CC, if anything bruisers and fighters don't have reliable AoE CCs. The numbers would have to get tweaked of course, but I do believe that that is the spirit of the mastery - to let champion like {{champion:98}} , or {{champion:32}} probe your defenses and when the time to strike is there... Allow the tank to have room to initiate, by giving them a shield to potentially survive charging into 5 people, thereby rewarding them for making a good play. Maybe that's what courage is, going in when you're low, but trusting in your teammates and no matter what happens still emerging out the other end. Actually do you think, that if the mastery was made to proc only when the champion that took is under 50% hp, it would be better?
In the same line of thought, since most bruisers don't have reliable AoE CC, another way to go would be something along the following lines: "When using hard CC, you gain a shield 1 sec later, if you managed to CC more than one enemy champion within that one second. The shield strength increases for each enemy successfully CC'd by you during the one second. If you use only single target CC within the time frame, CotC's cooldown won't trigger. "
: Courage of the Colosus Changes
Good point. But I would still argue, that if it scales with bonus HP it would change "everything" for such champions. It would at the very least mean that they would need to build HP first, if they want to prioritize scaling the mastery. This makes things like Runic Echoes (in the case of {{champion:154}} ) or Frozen Gauntlet ({{champion:78}} ) as a first item a real choice when picking up the mastery. It also opens the door for the devs to balance itemization for tanks by adjusting the HP difference between offensive Items with HP on them, pure tank items and hybrid items. Furthermore it cuts down the mastery's power early game by a significant margin, posing the logical question for any would be takers of the mastery - can I survive an early game with a potentially weaker mastery than the alternatives, to have a chance to reap the rewards when/if I scale up? You should keep in mind, that the goal of this mastery is indeed to make champions harder to kill. I think however, that in an ideal world tanks should be able to take a beating, but instead of how it is now, that they are able to solo the back line, they should instead use their tankyness to setup and create an opening for their own backline. Actually to that end, now that I think about it, it may be a good idea, to let this mastery reward "Big plays". What I mean by that is, let it proc the higher value shield only for each CC-d target, instead of each enemy around you when you use your CC, if anything bruisers and fighters don't have reliable AoE CCs. The numbers would have to get tweaked of course, but I do believe that that is the spirit of the mastery - to let champion like {{champion:98}} , or {{champion:32}} probe your defenses and when the time to strike is there... Allow the tank to have room to initiate, by giving them a shield to potentially survive charging into 5 people, thereby rewarding them for making a good play. Maybe that's what courage is, going in when you're low, but trusting in your teammates and no matter what happens still emerging out the other end. Actually do you think, that if the mastery was made to proc only when the champion that took is under 50% hp, it would be better?
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Rioter Comments
: About the Draven changes
Other things that need fixing: When using "w", it sometimes resets your auto's swing, making the attack take longer than usual. When an Axe animates as having connected with it's target and plays the sound, the auto will sometimes cancel if you move, even though it should have hit. Like how it used to be on {{champion:51}} .
Rioter Comments
: Twitch is not satisfactory.
You forget that the shimmer will make the standard Twtich assassination playstyle obsolete, even if it were true stealth. Twitch is better with camo, but the fact that it is camo needs to be reflected in a longer duration stealth, similar to how rengar's ulty was changed. This is to give him a larger window to be tricky, navigate wards and get into an unexpected position.
: Change duskblade's red trinket passive.
I still feel Teemo hasn't gotten enough compensation buffs for what red trinket did to his shrooms. This just seem like yet another nail in Teemo's coffin.
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: What you're saying for fervor wouldn't be too bad, but I'd veto the warlords idea immediately. The point of warlords is a late game mastery for high amounts of healing. It was already nerfed really hard when they made it so that it only healed off of enemy champs. If they kept it as it is, just using the healing like how they did on the new buff, it should be in a pretty good spot. It might be viable for Vayne and a few others now.
What I'm proposing isn't a nerf though. More like "A better alternative to the buff currently in testing". Or at least, I would argue as much.
: Warlord bloodlust doesn't scale with critical strike chance. It does the same thing whether you have 1% or 100%.
If your attack deals 100 damage, then with a 25% crit chance, over the course of a 100 attacks you will get a damage increase of about 25%, because you expect ~25 of those attacks to crit, are you with me so far? So, if you have Warlord's Bloodlust you will also get healed for a % of the damage dealt. So, let's say you get healed for 10% of the damage dealt on each proc of Warlord's Bloodlust (that's 10/100x2x100=20HP). Since you expect about 25 of your attacks to crit, you can expect to restore about (25x20) 500 health, over the course of a 100 attacks. In this example. If you raised your crit chance to say... 50%, you would have about 50 in a 100 attacks being a crit (very roughly speaking). 50attacks x20HP =1000 health, over the course of a 100 attacks. I hope you can see the difference. To summarize, it actually does scale with your crit chance. Well, as long as you don't miss crits due to the mastery's CD, and even then, your healing rate still scales to an extent with your crit chance. By that logic, Warlord's Bloodlust also scales with attack speed, since you would make the aforementioned 100 autoattacks faster with a higher attack rate. The higher your attack rate, the faster you'll make 100 attacks. :) Actually, now that I think about it, the builtin CD kinda seems to become ever more restrictive, the higher one's attackspeed gets... Weird if this is supposed to be an ADC mastery. I wonder if it would be a good idea to make Warlord's cooldown equal the champion's attack rate, as I proposed for Fervor of Battle. This should make the mastery more appealing for auto attacking champions as well, instead of champions with auto resets and volley attacks.
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: I noticed that when someone goes outside the circle of the W when wolf is attacking, he still attack them without dealing damage. He keeps going back and forth from the center of the area to where the champ attacked by lamb and him is. Also, I don't know if this is normal but sometimes when walking wolf goes onto lamb model and it can be confusing when fighting. Aside from what I've found, great job on the new champ :D They are fun to play.
I've seen this as well, it would be much cooler, if, when there are no enemies in the zone, Wolf instead paced back and forth slowly, near the edge closes to the nearest enemy. Like he's stalking his next pray from afar and in doing so, giving anyone who sees him a grim reminder of who awaits them, should they foolhardily elect to enter his territory. That could also be an interesting mechanic for savvy players to exploit - wolf showing which way the nearest enemy is (Even in the fog of war).
: Hi, i noticed that wolf gets blocked by obstacles, most obviously when you jump into krugs camp with the Q from the red buff brush and when wolf tries to follow he gets stuck on the wall corner and wanders from left to right
I experienced this bug as well. When Kindred use their Wolf's Frenzy (W) in such a way, that a wall blocks half the zone and Lamb hops over the wall to the other side, Wolf will be stuck at the former side and try to unsucessfully path around the wall, in order to follow Lamb, or attack what she's attacking, but Wolf will only end up resetting each time he reaches the ability's zone's edge and won't make it over the wall until the ability duration ends. Haven't been able to test this actually myself since Kindred is a rare commodity in any PBE queue, so it may have been a one time occurrence. Here an example of it on NB3's Stream (@16m&17s): http://www.twitch.tv/nightblue3/v/16289549?t=16m17s PS: It may be worthwhile to test how W will interact with Azir and Jarvan's ults. There may be some unintended interactions there, that could need some ironing out.
: Small bugs I noticed with Kindred.
This is the Kindred Bug report thread: http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bugs/hZT1wxyu-kindred-bug-report-thread :)
: The problem is that most everyone will want to play the new champ making ques long.
> [{quoted}](name=DrShoking,realm=PBE,application-id=cMKtzQHY,discussion-id=G25Yom7s,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-09-15T22:28:03.154+0000) > > The problem is that most everyone will want to play the new champ making ques long. This isn't Live, we came to PBE with the clear intent to test particular new content. I'd rather have a timer telling me how long it will take until I'm able to contribute in the meaningful way I meant to, than to get unnecessarily distracted by the champselect squabbles and in the end possibly not get to test what I wished to. The PBE also has people who want to see how particular champions play out against/with the new content. It's not like a game will magically never get started if team builder is turned on in the PBE. It will just take longer. This isn't live after all, we're here for a reason and Teambuilder will help testers approach their desired testing subject a lot more accurately than other queues presently allow. PS: The cake is a lie.
: A quick suggestion, while veigar is still being worked on...
Actually it just occurred to me why the 10 ap per wave would be hard to pull of and why it many not be as op. This point has been raised on the live boards before actually - Veigar {{champion:45}} presently sacrifices lane pressure when using Q to farm. Keep in mind also, that Baleful strike can't one shot minion waves until later in the game. At early levels you need to set up the minions you intend to farm with Baleful Strike, so as not to deal too little damage, or not deal the damage too late. If his Baleful Strike worked like suggested, a good Veigar {{champion:45}} will be able to make more out of his Qs. Q can then conceivably be used to effectively, or safely harass while still farming, depending on how well the player is able to utilize the champion's kit.
: A quick suggestion, while veigar is still being worked on...
No, not bounce. Think pierce. :) I'm still not sure if the Q being able to (potentially) proc two times per cast will be enough to mitigate the Ult nerf, though I think the faster "q" missile speed and the removal of the previous 0.2 sec cast time of "e" show that perhaps Riot may be looking for ways to give Veigar a little something back, hence my suggestion. Hey, maybe an interesting or (debatably) unique new mechanic could be what they are looking for. But while you're still here, do you think it would be fun if Baleful Strike worked as suggested above? For me, as Veigar is right now, I always like to try and make the most of my Baleful strikes and I nearly even managed to get a double kill with one. Imagine if you could get a penta with one. (Though I guess you're right, as awesome as it would be, to be rewarded for such a feat, +25 ap in one go would be OP as heck :/ )
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