: Frankly the community of Aatrox players is so small it's pretty much irrelevant in the topic of discussion. Aatrox's core build _when he was played_ was BotRK -> Randuins _every single game_. That isn't even close to "glass cannon" and if that's what people want well... Guess what, Yasuo, Tryndamere, Master Yi... they all exist. They're working with a kit that is so broken it can never be truly balanced, and doing the best they can to bring it in line with the rest of the roster. There have been very small nerfs to his damage, and there have only been buffs to his tanky-ness. That's a win for any other champion in the game, which makes it a win for Aatrox. He's not special just because "the community" thinks of him in a certain way. I think the best way to build Karma is as a tank. Does that mean that Riot is going to make Karma's shields and heals on herself bigger to satisfy my tank Karma needs? As for the theme of the champion, personally I think that instead of giving Aatrox attack speed, and range his ultimate should be an AoE attack speed increase for anyone within the cast range. As you said he's a champion about inspiring allies. Why does he not have any abilities that increase his allies strength? While we're at it let's make Dark Flight leave a trail behind it that increases allied champion movespeed, and have Blades of Torment shred armor and decrease the slow to 20%.
I like those changes for the rework for him in the Diver update, seems like they would play out in a super unique way
: Frankly the community of Aatrox players is so small it's pretty much irrelevant in the topic of discussion. Aatrox's core build _when he was played_ was BotRK -> Randuins _every single game_. That isn't even close to "glass cannon" and if that's what people want well... Guess what, Yasuo, Tryndamere, Master Yi... they all exist. They're working with a kit that is so broken it can never be truly balanced, and doing the best they can to bring it in line with the rest of the roster. There have been very small nerfs to his damage, and there have only been buffs to his tanky-ness. That's a win for any other champion in the game, which makes it a win for Aatrox. He's not special just because "the community" thinks of him in a certain way. I think the best way to build Karma is as a tank. Does that mean that Riot is going to make Karma's shields and heals on herself bigger to satisfy my tank Karma needs? As for the theme of the champion, personally I think that instead of giving Aatrox attack speed, and range his ultimate should be an AoE attack speed increase for anyone within the cast range. As you said he's a champion about inspiring allies. Why does he not have any abilities that increase his allies strength? While we're at it let's make Dark Flight leave a trail behind it that increases allied champion movespeed, and have Blades of Torment shred armor and decrease the slow to 20%.
Currently the build for aatrox is actually nothing near that. BotRK is currently a garbage tier item for the gold efficiency. The build for most players is Tiamat --> Ninja Tabi/Mercs --> finish Ravenous --> Phantom Dancer --> Deadmans/Spirit Visage --> Maw --> Last item is very situational Unless you are going Crittrox, or Aptrox then, I have no idea what the build is for those as of right now.
: Hey, I'm an Aatrox main on NA. I have over 140k mastery points on him. Some constructive criticism, I feel like his passive was hard nerfed. I don't care about the revive passive, nor does most of the community. You could ask just about anyone from the Aatrox subreddit, they would all say you could remove it entirely in order to provide power elsewhere. The attackspeed steroid being removed from just being passive, turning into a thing that only lasts 4 seconds will severely hurt him. To counter, all you have to do now is walk away... Maybe a slight MS buff to enable him to get in range, similar to Vlad's blood rush? Q changes arent the worst. The damage increase is nice, but the cooldown was really the problem of old Q. Aatrox has always been designed to be a diver, but he never has had enough mobility/survivablity once he is actually in a teamfight. W Thirst changes were a bit weird. I feel like the 3x below 50% was pretty iconic, but I can understand the changes if he was too strong from internal tests. I feel like it might need a numbers change eventually on PBE. W Price changes are nice, I think that this works out to be pretty balanced. Personally, I found the blood prices of his abilities pretty annoying when I first started playing him, but as I grew accustomed to it, it wasnt something to actually worry about, I hardly ever "Killed myself" with my abilities. E changes are okay. I'm on edge about them due to Ninja Tabi being something that people build against Aatrox anyways, so he will do even less damage after they are fully built. All in all i think something needs to be changed in the form of a buff, I appreciate the fact that Aatrox is officially on Riot's Radar now, but some of these changes (Mostly the passive) seem too weak. Sincerely, Äatrox (NA)
~Proposal~ What if the passive gets changed to this, do you think it would be balanced? Aatrox's abilities fill up his Blood Well. If Aatrox's Bloodwell reaches 100% capacity, he goes into bloodrush, gaining 25% AD and 30-55% (Based on level) attack speed for 4 seconds. If Aatrox deals or takes damage from an enemy champion or large monster, Aatrox's Blood Well is refilled and the duration of Blood Rush is refreshed. If Aatrox takes fatal damage, Aatrox is cleansed of all debuffs and enters stasis, regenerating 25% +(5% for every 20% in Blood Well) of his maximum health over 3 seconds. If Aatrox takes fatal damage during the effects of Blood Rush, he will regenerate 60% of his maximum health instead, regardless of Blood Well's capacity. Give criticism, toss it around at Riot. I'm fully open to ideas. Hudzell and CoolKipp are the heads of the Aatrox Reddit, Sweeeeeet dreams is the best Aatrox Jungle main in the world, GOOD GUY GARRY would also be a good guy to ask (Currently a Diamond 2 60% winrate Aatrox main) they have plenty of opinions for Aatrox. If he doesn't hit the mark for this PBE patch, I would definitely contact them.
: They already said he's intended to be built as more of a drain tank (bruiser at best.) Lowering HP costs across the board contributes to that philosophy. Hitting each of his abilities _once_ on a squishy at _any point in the game_ will do half of their HP without even auto-attacking once. If he is going to have this massive increase to tanky-ness because his "I'm constantly killing myself" theme is gone then an increase in damage too would make him _the_ untouchable god inevitably waiting to be nerfed.
Yeah but the thing is, the community of Aatrox players don't like to play him as a tank even remotely. What attracts people to Aatrox is being a glass cannon melee ADC. It's what he has always been best at. His kit changes should better suit those desires. His lore doesn't even remotely suggest he is a tank. He is a bloodthirsty killer that changes the tides of battle by shitstomping through the battlefield and inspiring allies.
: > [{quoted}](name=I Have OBCD2,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=mw9R6lgt,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-22T23:25:15.679+0000) > > It's not just four seconds, it lasts until you've been out of combat for four seconds. I think this makes it extremely powerful, as your opponent is forced into either committing to killing your empowered form, or trying to run away and choose a better time. However, if they run, you can build up enough blood well to fight proc your passive again in the next fight. > > They definitely need to see how strong he is before buffing/nerfing him, as this seems like quite the fix. It nerfs his laning phase. It will turn into something similar to yorick where opponents just walk away when ghouls spawn, thus making aspects of his kit useless. You also cant build up stacks on non champions as it is draining (EX. Killing minions with W proc on)
Also, will this directly nerf Aatrox's viability in the jungle? I noticed you cant keep blood rush against large monsters, or jungle camps in general.
: Haven't tested on 7.5 yet, but I agree w/ the W comment (Seems a bit nerfed). I like the no cost/cost reduction on his abilities though. The CD on Q isn't really a problem since vlad pool has a long cd too (Basically you have the high sustain champs and the high mobility champs, cant have both or it'd be OP)
Yes, but vlad pool leaves him untargetable, he gets ~3 sec of that. Aatrox throws his body into a fight with no damage reduction or anything to help out, not to mention any form of cc stops the animation, puts it on full cooldown of ~10-16 seconds
: It's not just four seconds, it lasts until you've been out of combat for four seconds. I think this makes it extremely powerful, as your opponent is forced into either committing to killing your empowered form, or trying to run away and choose a better time. However, if they run, you can build up enough blood well to fight proc your passive again in the next fight. They definitely need to see how strong he is before buffing/nerfing him, as this seems like quite the fix.
> [{quoted}](name=I Have OBCD2,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=mw9R6lgt,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-22T23:25:15.679+0000) > > It's not just four seconds, it lasts until you've been out of combat for four seconds. I think this makes it extremely powerful, as your opponent is forced into either committing to killing your empowered form, or trying to run away and choose a better time. However, if they run, you can build up enough blood well to fight proc your passive again in the next fight. > > They definitely need to see how strong he is before buffing/nerfing him, as this seems like quite the fix. It nerfs his laning phase. It will turn into something similar to yorick where opponents just walk away when ghouls spawn, thus making aspects of his kit useless. You also cant build up stacks on non champions as it is draining (EX. Killing minions with W proc on)
: The combination of him killing himself less and his passive giving him a burst of offensive power in lane means that he doesn't seem to be struggling to dominate early on. We still have time to do tuning but the early read is that he's not in desperate need of additional base stats.
Hey, I'm an Aatrox main on NA. I have over 140k mastery points on him. Some constructive criticism, I feel like his passive was hard nerfed. I don't care about the revive passive, nor does most of the community. You could ask just about anyone from the Aatrox subreddit, they would all say you could remove it entirely in order to provide power elsewhere. The attackspeed steroid being removed from just being passive, turning into a thing that only lasts 4 seconds will severely hurt him. To counter, all you have to do now is walk away... Maybe a slight MS buff to enable him to get in range, similar to Vlad's blood rush? Q changes arent the worst. The damage increase is nice, but the cooldown was really the problem of old Q. Aatrox has always been designed to be a diver, but he never has had enough mobility/survivablity once he is actually in a teamfight. W Thirst changes were a bit weird. I feel like the 3x below 50% was pretty iconic, but I can understand the changes if he was too strong from internal tests. I feel like it might need a numbers change eventually on PBE. W Price changes are nice, I think that this works out to be pretty balanced. Personally, I found the blood prices of his abilities pretty annoying when I first started playing him, but as I grew accustomed to it, it wasnt something to actually worry about, I hardly ever "Killed myself" with my abilities. E changes are okay. I'm on edge about them due to Ninja Tabi being something that people build against Aatrox anyways, so he will do even less damage after they are fully built. All in all i think something needs to be changed in the form of a buff, I appreciate the fact that Aatrox is officially on Riot's Radar now, but some of these changes (Mostly the passive) seem too weak. Sincerely, Äatrox (NA)
: Diabolical Veigar Tweak: (W) Dark Matter
I absolutely love this Idea, especially if this next patch doesn't "hit the sweet spot" for Veigar buffs/changes. The Idea of a scaling size W has never occurred to me before and I feel like it would honestly make him work better later on besides for just one/two people. I don't think that it should be 100% damage through the entire AoE, but if it had a Soraka Q type AoE where it does 100% and like 50-60% on the outside would make the ability not overpowered and abused. In order for it to work though I think the radius of the initial W would have to be smaller than what it is now, but overall the ability would really suit his character design and play style. (Stacking Final Boss Tetris blocks would be amazing for this effect)
: Rek'Sai ultimate - why no damage component
You cant use it as an escape, you cant be attacked for 1.5 seconds
: Rek'Sai and the CC Problem? let's use Furry
: I really **REALLY** like the pseudo-stealth idea above. If she hasn't taken damage in the last 8 seconds or something from a champion while burrowing, she is not shown on the minimap and her bars do not appear above her for enemies until she takes champion damage. So a pseudo-stealth, one you can see if you have a ward on river and you actually look for her. This would allow her a much more reasonable way of ganking than she has right now. Give her burrowed Q more utility, less damage, or the other way around. Either have it slow, speed her up if it hits an enemy champion, small snare even. She cannot only have one small CC in her whole kit as a jungler, she will not be played often at all if that is going to be the case. I would like to see more done with her ult. It requires you to have an offensively placed tunnel on their side of the map to be useful offensively, and it will only get harder and harder to use offensively as you push enemies back into their base, as they can clear it if its unguarded pretty easily. As of right now its much more of a defensive/map movement ult, and its cooldown does not match its uses. I can hardly ever see her ulting + knocking up. She will have to ult to the nearest tunnel then head to the enemies for the fight, not optimal with her single 1 second at best cc move.
I completely agree! She needs something like the pseudo-stealth. The burrowed Q needs work
: I completely agree with your assessment of her kit. She needs a slow on her Q to justify having AP scaling on it. here's a suggestion, I think they should make her burrowed form have more movement speed if there is no slow in her kit, other then that i think she is an amazing champ and i may just switch from being a mid main to jungle main :P
I completely agree. Her passive w doesn't bring her enough movement speed to catch enemies like a jungler should be able to do. If they don't add a movement speed boost, there should at least be like a 20% slow on the Q.

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