Feedback on Kayle changes

Since there was no current thread dedicated to this, I made one. If this changes by the time I post this, oh well. I may as well start saying I am very much not liking these Kayle changes. I understand that these are experimental, but even so, there are changes listed on the [twitter post]( that I can't just sit around and not express how bad some of these are. First, I'll talk about base stats: - 3 extra base armor is just for the Irelia meme, and I don't appreciate it. 3 Armor doesn't magically patch her laning phase, and it's not a significant buff into any of her matchups. If you really want to buff her base armor, buff her armor per level. Otherwise, you're basically saying take Kayle into the jungle, since camps will now deal 1 less damage to her per hit. - AS buff is actually welcome, but wasn't the whole point of nerfing it before to make her "more item dependent?" This will let her cap out her attack speed easier and let her utilize lethal tempo in a more meaningful way, but it still feels like compensation for the huge nerfs coming to her passive. Now, her passive changes: - Changing the stages from 6/11/16 to 7/11/15 feels really weird. Even if there were no other changes, this would not feel good or intuitive. Keeping the evolves on their normal schedule with ultimate ranks is better. - Zealous (level 1) change seems fair, nerf the potency in exchange for raw MS, and can now stack vs towers. Nothing that would warrant a thread like this, that's for sure. - Aflame (level 6->7) in conjunction with the next change is also reasonable, take the range from her second evolve and put it on her first, swapped with the fire waves. Many people had already commented that swapping her 11 and 6 spikes would fix a lot of her problems, and it's good to see that you're giving it a try. This change will make level 7+ Kayle significantly safer in lane, but the change I can't agree with here is nerfing the range to 525 with no plans to extend it later. 25 less range is horrible for her as the game goes on. Many hypercarries, such as Kai'sa, have 525 range in exchange for how much raw damage they can deal, following the dream of high risk, high reward. However, as you will see with other changes, Kayle loses her hypercarry status and is now just high risk, no reward. - Arisen (level 11) changes make sense since the net changes are neutral, short of her attack range being 525 instead, which I already talked about above. - Transcended (level 16->15) change is horrible. Removing the true damage? Seriously? The entire point of Kayle's fantasy is evolving from a weak early game insect into a hypercarrying late game goddess. Even in her current state, Kayle's late game is only strong, not divine. Removing her true damage makes this critical stage up from "you are now a hypercarry" to "congrats, you no longer have to stack your passive." This is a significant nerf to her late game power, which is the only reason anyone currently has to play Kayle. This change alone would warrant a lot of Kayle players like myself to simply drop her. Balancing a change like this would legitimately require extending her AA range to 700-750, otherwise level 15 will be a really boring spike, if even a spike at all. I could ramble about how bad this change is all cycle, but it really wouldn't do any good. Other ability changes: - Q mana refund would honestly work a lot better on her E as a minion farming tool. Other changes are extraneous adjustments, but I would argue only keep the bugfix. - W buff is W buff, honestly just buff the base so she can use it in lane if you want to buff her early game so bad. - E adjust makes sense, I don't have any major complaints about it, other than taking the mana refund from Q and putting it here instead. - R buff would make sense if Kayle had kept her late game power, or got a buff to her late game. I like the idea of it costing no mana at max rank, but these are just ideas for a buff I would like standalone, not coupled with all of these other major changes. I had actually been brainstorming possible Kayle changes for a while, and I had settled on something like this: - Divorce the relationship between fire wave damage and E rank - Level 6 damage based on E rank as magic damage -> 1% max health as true damage, each stage after adding +3-5% more. I had actually originally intended to make a post pre-9.15 to detail my thoughts and rationale behind such a change, so I suppose I'll give a tldr: Major goal was to make Kayle's early game not significantly different while making her late game stronger to deliver on her fantasy better. If I could summarize what I believe the changes to Kayle need to be, it would be the complete opposite of what is currently planned. Don't make Kayle's power curve less extreme, make it more extreme. Make her an actual niche pick for putting the game on a timer instead of just another generic champion. She should be the ultimate late game carry, not changed to a mid game inconvenience. In the meantime, if such a huge nerf to Kayle's late game goes through, why not pick Nasus, Vayne, or Twitch instead. They all have very strong late games, and they come online sooner than Kayle does. Just because, how about a poll to see what others think, because I know there are non-Kayle mains that actually like the current changes, so let's see. Of course, do leave comments and feedback, polls have a very limited amount of space for thoughts. Inb4 "wall of nonsense text because Kayle main doesn't like their champion being gutted"
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