do not let the garen rework go live like this. its not conceptually finished.

even if youre planning on number buffs, its not going to change the fact that garen right now on the PBE has no specific strategic value. **this is not a number problem that number buffs could fix.** the last ive heared, riste and a lot of other garen mains arent really happy with this either. PBE garen does not do a single thing that other fighters cant do better. there is no reason to pick him for his ultimate, as long as darius exists and has similar capabilities to 1v1 champions, with the potential to just pop off at 5 bleed stacks and bulldoze through an entire team. there is no reason to pick garen as a lane bully, as long as champions like renekton exist who still beat him in lane sustain, damage in trades and scale better as frontline threats with more mobility and items like {{item:3071}} {{item:3161}} {{item:3077}} available to them. this was garens problem before season 5 and the juggernaut rework. youre just putting him back into the same position by removing villainy without replacing it with a different steroid or win condition that gives him a way to carry fights or reason to get picked over other fighters. the problem of villainy as a juggernaut steroid for garen is not that it doesnt work. its that neither garen, nor his opponent have much agency over it which makes it unfun to use and play against. getting the mark means you can probably not fight garen at all. but the mark being on the wrong target, means garen is screwed in those situations too. its not comparable to something like mordes stack passive that both parties can play around, but gives morde a big signal to all in his opponent when he gets it stacked and his passive triggered. the same for yoricks ghouls or illaois spirit hook. please for the love of god. dont push this rework out as it is. you had a plan with the on-hits and it didnt work out for technical reasons and you went back on it. fine. but this still means were left with only a half finished concept. its a good basis, but garen still needs something he can do that other fighters cant, and a situational steroid that gives him a win condition, with statisfying enough counterplay, to turn him into an actual carry. before this happens and the concept of his kit is finished, you dont need to think much about number changes. if you need pointers at what to do with his kit from here, then most of us garen mains would probably be happy to help. i have an idea of my own to just base a juggernaut steroid on the armor shred on garens spin by letting it stack up additive over several casts of judgement on the same target, and maintaining the armor shred debuff between spins with basic attacks. this would give him something unique no other fighter can do (highest armor shred in the game, potentially stacking up to 100% over multiple judgement casts), and both sides could play around. either maintaining the debuff to keep stacking it on garens side, or momentarily disengaging from garen to drop the debuff stacks similar like youd play against darius. i think this could work out really well since it doesnt even change the core concept of his kit. it would also be easy to implement from a technical side, since the only modifications to his kit would be to let auto attacks refresh the spin shred, and to make the spin shred stack additive. from there you could think about balancing numbers. but you need to actually talk with us. you have a chance here to fix some of garens core issues and not half ass the whole thing and call it a day after literally your first attempt didnt work out like you planned. the rework isnt scheduled before 9.20 **at the earliest**, so there is still plenty of time to work on it. garens state on the live servers isnt bad. hes not too strong nor too weak at the moment. he doesnt have crazy problems like wukong or kayle did. so there is no actual pressure to push this out as fast as possible. if it has to get pushed out a few patches further than 9.20 to make it actually good, then no complaints from here.

Seems like no one has joined the conversation yet, be the first to comment below!

Report as:
Offensive Spam Harassment Incorrect Board