Garen PBE Changelist and Feedback thread

_8/7 Closing Edit_ I'm putting this at the top of both Garen and Skarner's PBE threads just to close the loop with everyone as the two champions approach Live in 5.16. First off, I fully understand that not everyone is psyched about all the changes going on here, and I am truly sorry if something you love about either of these champions is being taken away next patch. My hope is that most of you find your way back to the champions and/or that you can still find at least the same level of enjoyment in them after these changes. The level and quality of feedback you've provided in the last week has been of tremendous value in pushing the champions in directions that hopefully will serve them well not just currently, but also for the foreseeable future. Between tweaking Garen and Skarner in reaction to feedback over the week, I unfortunately didn't get to respond to as many of you personally as I would have liked, but I think it's important that you know I was reading everything you were saying. The nightly updates were an attempt at keeping you guys in the loop and showing you the changes you were influencing. That isn't to say I made all the changes you wanted to see, but your feedback definitely wasn't just disappearing into the abyss. Many of you are clearly very passionate about these champions, and your feedback, suggestions, and questions have helped get them to a spot where they're ready for Live servers. Garen and Skarner will both be on PBE until the patch is cut for 5.16, but tweaks and balance changes to them on PBE from here forward will be few (if any). If you enjoy them and want to keep stomping around with them on PBE to get a feel for them before Live, feel free to do so. Until next time, good luck in your games, and thanks one last time for all the input you've provided. Cheers, Repertoir ______________________ _Main Post (8/4)_ Hi everyone, Since Garen's headed to PBE now, I wanted to get a thread up to centralize feedback, as well as a place to put his up-to-date changelist. If you have any questions, feel free to leave them below. Changelist: * General: * Rec Items updated * Attack Frame improved, but doesn't scale as well with Attack Speed (time between attacks unchanged) * Base Stats: * (Nerf) Health/lvl 96 >>> 84.25 * (Buff) AD/lvl 3.5 >>> 4.5 * (Buff) Armor/lvl 2.7 >>> 3.0 * (Buff) Attack Range 125 >>> 175 * Passive - Perseverance - unchanged: * Q - Decisive Strike: * (Nerf) Silence Duration 1.5/1.75/2/2.25/2.5 >>> 1.5 all ranks * Movement Speed Duration 1.5/2.25/3/3.75/4.5 >>> 2/2.5/3/3.5/4 * W - Courage: * (Removed) 20% increased bonus Armor and Magic Resist * (Added) Killing units permanently grants 0.25 Armor and Magic Resist, up to a maximum of 30 total Armor and Magic Resist * (Removed) Active Tenacity component * E - Judgment: * Base Damage per tick 10.0/22.5/35.0/47.5/60 >>> 14/18/22/26/30 * Total Attack Damage Ratio per tick 0.35/0.40/0.45/0.50/0.55 >>> 0.34/0.35/0.36/0.37/0.38 * Base ticks per cast 6 >>> 5 * (Buff) Cooldown 13/12/11/10/9 >>> 9 at all ranks * (Added) Judgment’s spin speed permanently increases at levels 1/4/7/10/13/16, resulting in a total of 5/6/7/8/9/10 maximum ticks of damage per cast * (Added) Cancelling Judgment early returns cooldown of Judgment equal to the remaining duration of the buff * (Removed) Garen no longer moves 20% slower while moving through minions * (Added) Judgment deals 33% increased damage when striking a single enemy * (Removed) Judgment no longer deals 75% damage to minions * R - Demacian Justice: * (Added) Passive: The enemy champion with the most recent kills is the Villain. Judgment ticks and basic attacks on the Villain deal an additional 1% of its max Health as true damage * (Added) Demacian Justice now deals true damage to the Villain instead of magic damage That should be the full list for now. If you get a chance to check him out in game on PBE, let me know how it goes, or even if you don't, feel free to just leave your feels on the changes generally. Thanks, Repertoir _____________________________________ _8/5 Update (available to test in 8/6 PBE build)_ Hi guys, Sorry about not communicating much with everyone about Garen since yesterday. I spent much of last night and today reading yours and the rest of the community's thoughts on the changes to get a good grasp of where to go with Garen for the next iteration, which takes us to today's changes. There was a lot of consistent feedback on certain elements of yesterday's changes, so today's changes aim to address some of those concerns. The main goals of today's changes are: * Address Judgment's relatively low counterplay in a way that gives more gameplay to Garen and opponents, rather than just taking gameplay opportunity from Garen (as in the last set of changes) * Reduce some of the weirdness with the changed W passive. It isn't really intended that Garen feels like a champion that needs to invest heavily into 'farming up' a ton of minions (much moreso than other champions, anyway), but we do feel this W passive is a good direction for two main reasons: flat resistances synergize well with Health scaling that Garen has on his passive and other items, and as a champion recommended for beginners, it teaches some of the importance of farming. As a side note to the above goals, I agree with everyone that W active is pretty boring now, but that gains in nuance have been made across the kit elsewhere that can justify this change if need be. That said, I am actively thinking about a few relatively simple solutions to making W active just a bit more interesting in ways that don't undermine some of his intended weakness (like being peelable, for example). On to the day's changes: * P - Perseverance * HP/sec at level 16 1.6% >>> 2.0% (Live value) * Q - Decisive Strike * (Added) Garen now moves up to 50 units toward his target when attacking with Decisive Strike from max attack range * W - Courage * Armor/MR per kill 0.2 >>> 0.3 * Armor/MR per Champion/LargeMonster/EpicMonster kill 1 >>> 0.3 * Armor/MR cap per rank 10/15/20/25/30 >>> 30 all ranks * E - Judgment * Base Damage 12/16/20/24/28 >>> 20/25/30/35/40 * (Removed) Garen is no longer slowed when moving toward champions he's hitting with Judgment * (Added) Judgment now deals 25% reduced damage when hitting multiple units * (Removed) Judgment no longer deals reduced damage to minions *R - Demacian Justice - unchanged Hopefully this is a step in the right direction for the character. The most noteworthy changes in here are probably the adjustments to Judgment. This direction for Judgment is aimed at adding optimization to the spell that really wasn't there before, in a way that isn't just Garen being slower. Edging enemies in lane and isolating opponents is intended to be that added optimization. Additionally, I've added in some accommodation to using Q given the new attack range changes, so that Garen doesn't start Judgment at the edge of the spell's range. Finally, W passive should require less mindshare and be less weird about when to rank it and how to stack it. The simplified version is now "kill things to get some defense. At 100 things (whatever they are), you're done." As always, please continue to keep feedback coming, be that here, Boards, Reddit, whatever. Cheers, Repertoir _____________________________________ _8/6 Update (available to test in 8/7 PBE build)_ Hey guys, Tomorrow's build won't have a ton of changes for Garen, just a few small late game nerfs and the re-introduction of Crit to Judgment (E). I know it's a bummer to see a few nerfs in the changes, but seriously, this guy is currently a late game monster. Either way, I'm happy to discuss more if people have concerns. Here's the changes: * Q - Decisive Strike * Movement Speed Duration changed 1.5/2.25/3/3.75/4.5 >>> 2/2.5/3/3.5/4 * W - Courage * Armor/MR stacking effect reduced to .25 from .3 * Effectively requires 120 unit kills to be fully stacked now * E - Judgment * Total Attack Damage Ratio .47/.49/.51/.53/.55 >>> .46/.47/.48/.49/.50 * (Reintroduced) Judgment can once again critically strike for bonus damage That's it for changes today. Thanks for all the great feedback thus far, Repertoir _____________________________________ _8/7 Update_ There aren't many significant updates to Garen today. I fixed a few minor bugs and updated recommended items, but he mostly seems good to go. Only small thing worth noting is that the movement on Qs attack added a couple days ago will now only happen on champions, as he probably wants to maintain his range against minions in most cases to keep maximum range from his lane opponent. Oh, and I changed how Judgment's tooltip is written so that it now says "damage increased by 33% when striking only one target" rather than "damage reduced by 25% when striking several". The damage on spell is is basically the same despite this wording change, with only slight variations from yesterday so that more integers could be used in the tooltip and avoid numbers like 16.375, etc. Thanks for all the great PBE feedback that's gotten him to this point. Cheers, Repertoir
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