[PBE - 5.22] Adjustments to Killstreak Bounty Rules and Bounty Displays

We've made a couple of adjustments to the Bounty System for the Preseason - Killstreaks have been altered significantly and the rewards from Bounties have been replaced. *Goals* In general, spending additional resources to shut down a unit that has a high bounty should be a decent call to make. However, in the current way that bounties are formulated - often times - it isn't worth the time or investment to try to reverse or stall a winner. When we make comeback bounties too high on an individual basis - you get some wild rubberbanding logic over the course of a lane, making lane accomplishes feel moot in a lot of ways. Additionally, because these bounties are compounded by the assist pool - a losing team can easily be behind simply due to an assassin doing his job too well - as he frequently deprives his team of assist pool bonuses on high profile targets. We want to make the Bounty system more visible - so players can use it as a better threat indicator and performance evaluator for the short term - as well as attempt to fairly compensate the additional resources required to shut down a target on a 2-0 or 3-0 killstreak without causing huge rubberbanding in lane cases. *Bounty Rules* Champions now begin to accrue a Bounty once they have gotten 2 consecutive kills without dying, like live - and will set you to Bounty Tier '2' (like live.) The more kills you get, the higher your bounty 'Tier', up to a maximum of Bounty 'Tier' 5 - which is the same as live. *Major Changes* **TIERS** Bounty 'Tier' are now visualized next to your champion health bar. Higher 'Tiers' of Bounties will have progressively more impressive icons. You will be able to see both the Bounty Tier of allies and enemy champions. **DYING AND RESETTING** Dying **no longer** resets your Bounty **entirely**. Instead, it decays your Bounty 'Tier' by **3** 'Tier'. If you have a Bounty 'Tier' of 3 or less, this means it will reset completely. If you have a Bounty Tier of 4 or 5 - you will go to 1 and 2 respectively. If you are at Tier 1, killing a unit will set you to Tier 2. **TEAM GOLD FOR BOUNTIES** Bounties now give **Team** gold rather than adding to kill gold. Killing a champion with a Bounty will display the total amount of Team Gold awarded to the enemy. **ASSIST 'STREAKS' REMOVED** Gold bonuses from having multiple assists without killing a champion have been **removed** entirely. The majority of this gold has been moved to either starting Tier 1 support items, ambient gold or floated to more global gold from objectives and champions. *Bounty Rewards by Tier* Tier 1: ~~25~~ 20 Global Gold Tier 2: ~~45~~ 30 Global Gold Tier 3: ~~75~~ 60 Global Gold Tier 4: ~~100~~ 70 Global Gold Tier 5: ~~120~~ 90 Global Gold (MAX) **UPDATE**: After some fantastic discussions about this - it seems like the initial gold values are really putting people off. Going to aggressively tune some of these numbers until they seem more reasonable at first glance. Thanks guys! :D *Note*: You can only ever get to Bounty Tier 1 by having a Tier 4 Bounty and dying. Champions on a 2-kill streak will start at Bounty Tier 2. *Additional Note*: We are purposefully inflating the amount of gold given out due to the gold efficiency changes as well as to compensate for the loss of the additional assist 'pool' bonus gold. Many items sat at around a 40% gold efficiency mark or so - and we've adjusted them down quite heavily to have better item and decision balance between items. The assist pool rule we've removed as we've been unhappy with its actual impact on the game as the complexity cost versus the impact on the game hasn't been favorable (due to intrinsically favoring large team fight compositions rather than a more even balanced between split pushing, team fighting and hard pushing.) *Examples of this in Practice* Darius has scored an early double kill in top lane. He now has a Tier 2 Bounty. The Jungler comes and with the assistance of the top laner - they murder Darius for 300 Gold plus 150 Assist Gold pus ~~225~~ 150 Team Gold => 600 Total Gold. This gold bonus is in contrast to live, which he would be worth 370 Kill Gold + 185 Assist Gold => 555 Total Gold. *Example: Tier 5* Riven is murdering everyone due to insanity at early snowballing. She has a Tier 5 Bounty from going 5-0. On Live, she would be worth 500 kill gold and 250 Assist Gold => 750 Total Gold + (Assist Streak bonuses) With the new Bounty System, she would be worth 300 kill gold, 150 Assist Gold and ~~600~~ 450 Team Gold => 900 Total Gold. If she dies at Tier 5 Bounty, she then drops down to Tier 2 Bounty status. She then gets killed again without getting more kills, she'll award 300 Kill Gold, 150 Assist Gold and ~~225~~ 150 Team Gold => 600 Total Gold.
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What is the system like for people on a death streak? Is it the same as before, or does it have some of the only partial reset element? Are there any visual indicators to make the lower-priority nature more visible? Would that even be a good idea for behavioral reasons?
> [{quoted}](name=Chrysippus,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=LHYZQiVN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-03T22:36:55.580+0000) > > What is the system like for people on a death streak? Is it the same as before, or does it have some of the only partial reset element? Are there any visual indicators to make the lower-priority nature more visible? Would that even be a good idea for behavioral reasons? There is no changes to the system for people on Death Streaks. I'm not actually sure it would be that great behaviorally as you'd have this kind of weird badge of shame indicator.
I'm not sure if global gold is a necessarily good idea. Didn't you lower dragon bounty because you didn't want top lane to start winning because of something bot lane did?
> [{quoted}](name=Oblivionhold,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=LHYZQiVN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-11-03T22:38:34.468+0000) > > I'm not sure if global gold is a necessarily good idea. Didn't you lower dragon bounty because you didn't want top lane to start winning because of something bot lane did? We've probably taken lane independence a bit too far, to be honest. We did lower dragon bounty from 150 global to 0 global because we didn't want top lane to start winning due to a singular independent action bot lane. However, if a lane is crushing - currently the incentives are such that a laner taking the time to bolster another lane at all is mostly unrewarded - which leads to a fairly non-interactive game stat of continuously crush a lane you are already dominant. We want to combat this by making a strong draw or encouragement for your team to stop the team involved - without it automatically undo'ing the net effect of the lane - as higher bounties tend to do. That's also the reasoning for the partial reset of bounties for higher bounties rather than a complete cash-out from a single kill - so we could mitigate the global impact of a singular event - while still making a chain of persistent effort pay off as well.
I agree, they should compromise between the new and old way. Old way being shutdown gold goes to the killer, new way is global gold. They could award shutdown gold just to those who participated in the kill. Instead of 600 global gold for a tier 5 kill, it could be 600 split between participants.
That has the effect of wildly swinging the individual lane. Basically, once shutdown gold is that high - distributing it among a smaller set of individuals provides strong negative incentives from getting kills in the first place (S1) - and makes it so that a single mistake has a ridiculous rubberband quotient in lane. For example, imagine if you 3-0'ed someone and now you are worth 700 gold. If they kill you back in a 1v1 because you did a risky dive - they've now undone 2 1/2 kills worth progress you've made in gold advantage in lane - the rubberband qualities of this means that you optimize for suppression patterns so you never show up 'on the system' to begin with. By distributing it across the team - you impact each lane individually much less - while still making that champion a worthwhile team objective to consider - and correct from a team perspective to divert some resources to shut down that champion.
I think if you're solo killing a threat like that you might deserve the gold lol. Though that could be too much for a single kill you're right. Maybe in addition to only splitting it between the participants maybe that gold could be capped as well. No more than say 33% of the bounty can go to one person. So if there's only one participant they would get 200 gold for a tier 5, 2-3 participants in the kill would also get 200 gold, so the 600 total would come in at 3 people. Having more than 3 people would drop the gold per player but maintain the same global gold total. But then that lowers incentive for having multiple resources going towards a shutdown as well, so maybe some sort of compromise here. Following the original gold per player numbers, if you were to give out only 120 per participant (as opposed to global no matter what) that would feel really bad if you get the solo kill, but would raise incentive to bring more people in for the kill also. I guess in the end 120 gold for free is about equivalent to a tower kill anyways, so maybe not a huge deal.
There's definitely the potential for some weird incentives here - so in the end, we've opted for the clearest understandable / visible thing rather than something that is obtuse but tries to be as fair as possible. We'll definitely have to tune gold values and such around as we see the effect of it and what kinds of feelings it creates on the game.
So basically, you're rewarding the whole team for ending a kill streak, rather than just the specific killer.
Basically. We're also increasing the value of bounties across the board for super high rollers - but you'll also need to kill them multiple times in order to cash out their full bounty. The behavior we noticed here is that, with the relatively low amount of bounty in our system - helping a losing lane is typically a mistaken proposition. However, increasing bounty for an individual creates some really aberrant behavior where a single gank can swing the lane in the complete opposite direction - hence the use of globals. Globals do also have wonky effects but tend to have less individual impact - and thus have a far smoother impact on lane.
in the first example, i think the team gold should be 225 (45x5), not 220 :)
Whoops. My bad - should be fixed.
On the opposite side of the bounty changes, are there any changes to gold value reset of champions who get behind, or is it still the same as live?
It should be the same as live. If you have specific concerns on this - certainly bring it up so we can adjust in the near future.
What about gold from consecutive assists? You know: "_If a player has 2 more assists than kills they earn 30 additional gold for their next assist. If they have 3 more, it's 45, and 4 more assists than kills reaches the bonus cap of 60 extra gold. This bonus cannot be more than the original value of the kill. _" Which allows supports to get fed with scores like 0/5/25... Are these changes going to balance things out for the losing team supports?
The assist pool from consecutive assists has been removed actually. Let me add that to the original post as well. We've shifted a lot more gold into both global sources, the T1 support items and ambient gold for supports to compensate for this as well.
Can Miss Fortune get some sort of bonus gold when cashing in on these bounties, since she's... you know... a bounty hunter?
We've talked about the fact that - once Bounty Systems become more explicit, we can start trying to tie some light mechanics into them. However, I doubt that we'll make progress on that any time soon - as there's a lot of unknowns with this Bounty system that we'll have to sort through.
But what about executes? Does being executed cost you your bounty and grant the enemy team global gold? I understand executes aren't a major thing in Rift, but when it comes to ARAM, for example, that can lead to some very lopsided games with 4 members of your team 4-0 but they all have starting items and refuse to execute themselves for fear of giving the enemy a lot of gold. And even in rift, that leaves the possibility of teammate toxicity, as if you are unable to escape and choose to take the option of execution, because you are still giving the enemies global gold, just not anyone of them specifically a lot.
Being executed should not actually take away from nor grant the enemy team the bounty. I'll have to double check this - but I'm fairly certain you can't reset your killstreak just by executing yourself.
I'm both a bit sad & mad to see you're already going back on the idea because of people crying about the value before even trying them out. To me , it sounds just great. I always hated when playing jungle to say "top is losing, well, let's leave him be and camp botlane" . Really . I've been playing back when high bounty was 1000 gold and it felt great to go on a dominant lane and working hard to shut it down . Sure it had it's downside like shifting lane power wayyy too much in a short time . But you actually felt really good, like, helping this guy that got destroyed by an early mistake or a poor mu to stand back . With it being a global value , and with most change to item gold value , it really sound amazing. I was smiling like an idiot reading the post . I've had mixed feeling on the recent changes, but this pre-season did looked good. And this change, damn I was so happy. Refresh it, and it's already going down because people are too afraid .. damnit .
Well, the high bounty, instead of being 1050 - will instead be 900. It's still much higher than live by a good 20% - and killing them again will reward you with the tier 2 bounty - so repeated ganks on them will help quite a bit. We'll see how it goes. Again - aggressively tuning based on response and feels and most people were fairly uncomfortable with the initial disruption of the curve. I'm mostly trying to establish whether or not the overarching pattern of this bounty system is successful. Numbers aren't something I'm particularly attached to right now - but I'm inclined to start at a place which more people are comfortable playing at - and then tuning based on what seems like a good direction. Currently, the previous numbers *wasn't* a place people felt comfortable playing at - at least on initial response - and so going to trim it to an earlier start. I do want to stress that it *is* important to listen to people's fear and what it's telling them. Ultimately, what I heard was that there seemed to be a deep sense of unfairness around the double kill mark and the 5-kill mark that was being brought up repeatedly in people's concerns - and thus it seemed like a good time to nip those in the bud while still keeping overall gold distribution higher value than live.
> [{quoted}](name=Xypherous,realm=PBE,application-id=2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651,discussion-id=LHYZQiVN,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-03T22:29:50.759+0000) >DYING AND RESETTING Dying no longer resets your Bounty entirely. Instead, it decays your Bounty 'Tier' by 3 'Tier'. If you have a Bounty 'Tier' of 3 or less, this means it will reset completely. If you have a Bounty Tier of 4 or 5 - you will go to 1 and 2 respectively. > Note: You can only ever get to Bounty Tier 1 by having a Tier 4 Bounty and dying. Champions on a 2-kill streak will start at Bounty Tier 2. Uhm, Don't these statements contradict each other? Additionally what is the purpose of making it so that the only way you get back at a bounty of 1 is to die at a bounty of specifically tier 4?
The Tier 1 Bounty is just an oddity of the fact that Killstreaks start at 2. Killstreaks only start at 2 because of weird double kill instances early in lane. We have no real safeguards against weird kill into double-kill scenarios unfortunately and it creates a lot of the odd tiering behaviors around 1 and 4.
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