Veigar Rework v.s. Live

Hello there! Just some of my thoughts on the Veigar rework. **Veigar (Live)** >** Strengths** > -Farmability of Q (Infinite scaling AP) > -Instant AoE stun with low counterplay potential > -High, high burst > -Unique target selection for two abilities > >** Weaknesses** > -High Q early game cooldown > -Q has low range > -Unreliable early game burst > -High mana cost to land burst combo > -Weak defenses (Instant AoE stun is a skillshot) **Veigar (PBE)** > **Strengths** > -Increased farmability of Q (Potential 2x as fast infinite scaling AP) > -Increased farm potential with lower mana costs and skillshot Q with longer range > -Early game weakness slightly decreased (with presence of turret for protection) > -Increased lategame burst > -AoE stun > >** Weaknesses** > -Much more fragile in teamfights > -Zero reliable defenses > -Even more unreliable early game burst > > **Overview** With the changes to Veigar in the PBE, at first glance it seems to me that Veigar's reliability has been severely decreased. This may be a healthy adjustment in the right direction, as Riot seems to favor unreliable abilities that can be dodged in the name of counterplay. - After doing some playtesting with the PBE kit, it's apparent that Veigar's Q scaling has been increased to a potential twofold. Veigar's live Q rarely had the potential early game to be used as a farming tool with the presence of a competent lane opponent. The decreased early game cooldown, increased range and number of targets hit definitely helps Veigar with this weakness. In exchange, Q can be dodged by his opponents. - W has not been significantly changed in terms of playstyle; its cooldown was decreased at later levels. This encourages a late-game scaling Veigar build/playstyle. The W is unreliable and extremely easy to dodge without proper lockdown. It is useful, however, for zoning melee opponents off of Veigar. Note that W on live already accomplishes this function, just not as often during the lategame. - E is the most significant change to Veigar. A slight range increase plus a 0.75 second indicator and delay. The delay destroys Veigar's ability to use his stun defensively against burst-style champions. The method to playing around this is to recognize a danger in advance and use it defensively. This means Veigar can't afford to use event horizon offensively in combat situations with multiple opponents without losing his only unreliable defense. The likes of Leblanc, Lissandra, etc. can pull off a burst combo reliably and with less counterplay than Veigar; Veigar cannot respond reliably with his own. - R has not be signifciantly changed. The 0.2 AP ratio nerf hardly impacts it. In fact, the impact is probably positive with the Q changes and the potential for AP gain that's been introduced with the skillshot double-target Q. **Analysis/Thoughts and Further Discussion** > **Playing as Veigar on PBE** > -I was fortunate to play against a passive Katarina, the likes of which don't appear often in casual or ranked play. His Q impacts his early game in a positive way, reinforcing his ability to scale with AP and farm to the lategame. It also definitely helps with his waveclear. In terms of counterplay, it isn't too easily dodged with good prediction (similar to Leblanc's chains) and gives Veigar a reliable way to dish out constant burst damage in teamfights since it hits more than one target now. The most significant change to his E was definitely a nerf, even with the range changes. It was difficult to land a proper stun; although I landed most of them, it wasn't due to my proper placement of the E as much as it was my opponent's improper movement of their champion into the edge of it. Beyond the delay, the E wasn't significantly different from the live version. Once a stun landed, it was intuitive to land Veigar's burst combo. The delay does make him a lot more vulnerable. Veigar already has difficulty with blink/dash assassins. Now, he has no reliable method of outplaying those assassins in perfect situations. Not good. A prime example of a squishy and easily assassinated target would be Lux. Long cooldowns, high burst, long-range, and ample weaknesses. However, even Lux can defend herself with an instant point blank snare in critical situations. Veigar cannot accomplish basic defenses. > >** Playing against Veigar on PBE** > -I'm a Leblanc main, so easy would be a complete understatement as to describe the lane that I had as Leblanc against the PBE Veigar. With the 100% uptime of Veigar's lack of defenses now with the delayed E stun, I had no problem completely freezing and zoning Veigar in lane while dodging his Q skillshots. He had no way of fighting back. His W could not be landed as I could walk out of it. His Q's were easy enough to juke and sidestep, with distortion as the backup. And his E had a delay that effectively made his chances of stunning me zero. When I'm trapped inside his cage, there's a lot of room to dodge his Q's and W's as if it didn't exist. Jungler ganks were ineffective with my distortion up, as I could dash out of the cage only to be stunned for one and a half seconds in safe range of my turret with proper lane positioning. > ...............................TL;DR/Conclusion Section............................................. **Problems with PBE Veigar versus Live Comparison** - Increased counterplay on Q and increased usability of Veigar by changing it into a skillshot (Y - accomplished) - Increased counterplay of E and increased trapping potential for Veigar (N- not properly accomplished) - Increased Veigar's theme of infinite scaling AP (Y- accomplished) As you can see, Veigar's theme was increased and his severe early game weakness was slighlty lessened. However, his biggest weakness of having E as his only defense was completely destroyed. He has zero defensive potential. This is something that a player'll have to keep in mind when playing Veigar if Veigar ships as is to live. **Suggested changes** As most of the changes do accomplish the task of increasing Veigar's counterplay while also increasing his theme, most of it was change for the good. However, his E delay effectively makes him tied with Viktor as one of the weakest mages in terms of defensive potential (Viktor even possessing an instant MS boost and slow over Veigar). If one were to further Veigar's weakness in defense while making his E feel less punishing for the players playing as Veigar, the range could be increased even more to allow Veigar to trap enemies within a cage without stunning them from afar, with the drawback being that Veigar loses his only possible defense in the process. If one were to lessen Veigar's defensive weakness, the delay could be decreased to half a second, the cage's duration could be increased and Veigar's base movement speed could be increased to allow him to at least kite around his Event Horizon when it is up. In proper response, the stun could be normalized to a duration such as two seconds to make up for how ineffective the horizon is during the early game while also making it less overbearing in teamfights. .........................**EDIT**............................. -Just came up with another idea for Event Horizon after reading the erroneous tooltip on PBE that states enemies who pass through the perimeter are stopped. It does not currently do that (stop dashes). To stick with the theme of accurately representing the Event Horizon as an Event Horizon in relation to a Black Hole, I suggest these changes below. -Enemies who exit the Event Horizon or touch its walls are stunned. -In addition to the above, Event Horizon grants vision of trapped targets until it expires. What this would do is buff Veigar indirectly by giving him and his team information. Targets that are unfortunate to be trapped in the Event Horizon, as the name suggests, cannot escape it without being stunned. Even if they manage to exit the "black hole"'s event horizon early, they are still stunned and visible to Veigar and his team. It also makes Event Horizon less generic and more unique to Veigar, since there are plenty of circle AoE slows in the game already. {{champion:45}} "It's no use! You, and your friends, are dead!" **Signing off,** **Cardi**
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