Kog'Maw PBE Feedback Thread

____________________ _Closing PBE Thoughts 11/3_ Hi everyone, Real short and sweet, I really appreciate all the feedback you've given on Kog'Maw during his time on PBE for the 5.22 preseason patch. He'll stay on there until the patch hits Live environments, but before that happens, I'm putting in some small nerfs to Kog'Maw to make it so that when he's spewing crazy damage all over the enemy team, it's not quite so crazy. I'm nerfing his Q passive by a bit at later ranks to reel that in, as well as slightly reducing the AD ratio on his ultimate. Additionally, I reduced his W damage slightly. The hope with these nerfs is that he still feels like he's doing intense late game damage, but without feeling quite so crazy in the high end. All in all, I'm pretty happy with where Kog'Maw is at, and I think that he's hitting the goals we set out for him as far as strengths/weaknesses go. I'm glad players seem to be excited about his changes, and I'm personally really excited to see how he performs on Live. Thanks so much for all the thoughts and feedback, and good luck melting anything in your way once this hits Live! Cheers, Repertoir ____________________ _End of weekend 11/1 thoughts_ Hi all, I wanted to pop into this thread and let everyone know I've been reading their feedback and watching Kog'Maw games on the PBE for a decent share of the weekend. It feels like the Kog changes are mostly going over well, with perhaps a few main questions/concerns that merit some responses. * What do these changes mean for AP Kog'Maw? * The changes made were done so in an effort to keep AP Kog'Maw approximately as powerful as he is on Live. If it turns out he ends up significantly stronger or weaker, we'll have to give consideration to that in a follow-up patch. * This Kog'Maw does ridiculous levels of damage. Wtf? * Yes he does. Kog'Maw is currently really pushing the upper bounds of how much damage a champion is allowed to do if they're not pressured, CC'ed, killed, etc. Though testing the limits always has its risks, if it turns out he does just waaaaay too much damage for the game to handle, we feel there are levers in place to address this. I'm hopeful that when played in a more balanced matchmaking environment (unlike PBE), players will learn that come mid and late game, he should be their number one priority target, and that they will lose if he goes unaddressed. * Why didn't we change Kog'Maw's passive? * Though I agree he current passive isn't perfect and doesn't really help him in his standard combat scenario, I didn't feel that it was so broken that it needed to be redone from the ground up. One of the things about these large batch changes is that we have to try to be really good about being selective about where we spend our change resources. Thanks to everyone for their testing and feedback. Given what I've seen on PBE, I feel pretty confident that Kog'Maw has the strength/weakness profile we're looking to emphasize on him, though it's certainly possible it's too exaggerated currently. If that's the case, we'll be quick to address it. Cheers, Repertoir ____________________ Hi all, With marksmen changes hitting PBE soon, I wanted to get a thread up to discuss changes to Kog'Maw that are coming in the big preseason patch. Kog'Maw's changes are pretty simple and straightforward, and they aim to further emphasize some of the main things we've always known and love about him. Namely, we want him to really shine in support-heavy team comps, and we want him to feel like a really juicy target for opponents. This won't be line-by-line changes like you'd see in the patch notes, but rather summaries of the bigger changes going on here. Changes: * **Bio-Arcane Barrage (W) has been changed to make Kog'Maw some kind of vomit-spewing machine gun while it is active.** * While W is active, Kog'Maw attacks twice as fast, and his Attack Speed cap is doubled to 5 attacks per second. * While W is active, basic attacks deal reduced physical damage, but apply on-hit effects at full effect. * During this time, Kog'Maw attacks so fast that attack-moving efficiently becomes incredibly difficult, so choose a time when you don't need to move much, and go to town. * **Living Artillery (R) has been repurposed to be less powerful in the average poke case, but very threatening as an execution tool.** * Living Artillery's base damage and ratios have been adjusted, and it no longer deals increased base damage to champions. * Living Artillery now deals double damage to enemies at 25%-50% current Health, and triple damage to enemies below 25% Health * **Various other changes/thoughts:** * Base Attack Speed stats and Q's passive Attack Speed have been adjusted so he is more dependent upon maxing both his Q and W to really approach his full damage potential. * For those wondering, AP Kog'Maw will play a bit differently than before, but we believe it to be of about equal power to before. Those are the main changes. If you get a chance to play Kog'Maw, please do let me know how it goes by replying to this thread. I'll be popping in pretty regularly while Kog is on PBE to monitor his progress and see how players are feeling about him. Cheers, Dcap
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Really interesting changes, can't wait to play Kog on the PBE. Anyways, I hope that they won't make the on-hit build too powerful compared to the AD+crit one, since both of them can be used in different situations (playing vs tanks, playing vs squishies) and I'd like to see more variety in my games. On another note, have you considered the possibility that some players might want to bring Kog in the jungle (since camps can be easily kited now) and take advantage of Sated devourer?
It's possible people will try to jungle him, though I think it will be difficult to survive early.
Is this gameplay only? Or are we getting visual updates?
Mostly gameplay. There are some small visual changes to his W particles and animations, as well as his icons.
All I can think is that a lot of base stats are going to need nerfs to make all that work
Yes. We have found that a lot of base stats needed nerfs to make all this work :)
Have any of you tried attack moving at 5 attacks per second when you were testing it on pre-pbe server?
Yes, it's basically impossible, and it's actually an intended weakness of the character.
So, if Kog can attack and apply on - hits ~5 times per second, won't something like Wit's or BORK shred the enemy's front like as long as he's chilling in his team's back line with his team defending him? I can only imagine few scenarios where it would be bad, for instance, Kog's locked out from his team or his front line's doing poorly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but only his w can turn anyone into some scrambled eggs
Yep, if Kog'Maw is protected or not pressured by his opponents, he will probably melt entire teams.
I believe with intensive ADC mechanics practice, I will be able to orbwalk even under that insane attack speed. :^) I like how Kogmaw's identity as a late game immobile but deadly tank killer is strengthened by this change, but now he seems even more dependent on his W than right now. R changes look really interesting so far. It would probably make his post 6 weaker so he needs to spend more time to scale up his Q and W and can't poke that hard anymore.
> I believe with intensive ADC mechanics practice, I will be able to orbwalk even under that insane attack speed. :^) I'd love to see this.
Osu! clicking practice helps...probably :P
Bust out the tablet!
5 auto attacks per second, don't you think that's a bit too much considering it will apply IE crits?
It may be. I'm really excited to see what everyone's opinion on this guy is given his pretty stark strength/weakness profile.
> While W is active, Kog'Maw attacks twice as fast, and his Attack Speed cap is doubled to 5 attacks per second. While W is active, basic attacks deal reduced physical damage, but apply on-hit effects at full effect. During this time, Kog'Maw attacks so fast that attack-moving efficiently becomes incredibly difficult, so choose a time when you don't need to move much, and go to town. Kog'maw seems to be taking a sort of Xerath approach, but as a marksmen. I approve, but I wonder if the range increase is staying the same, is being changed, or is completely being removed.
The range increase is slightly smaller at rank 1 (90, I believe?), but it scales back up to the same 210 at rank 5.
Bio-Arcane Barrage (W) will maintain the temporal range upgrade?
It's staying.
Will Bio-Arcane Barrage (w) % health damage on hit remain?
Yes, but it is modified to have an AD ratio (and be dependent upon that AD ratio).
I can't wait to try him in PBE! Kog'Maw is my highest mastery champ. I love him. I wonder how his build path would change, I didn't really like building {{item:3078}} on him that much. I would hope for a more on-hit build.
We believe that BotRK is his likely first item rush, and that Trinity Force is less optimal now due to his W being less optimal with spell-weaving patterns.
Hey, I'm hyped to test the new kog'maw, even if i'm not a kog'maw big user About the whole rework on the group of adc, are you the one behind each o: ?
I'm behind Quinn and Kog'Maw only, as far as the 6 more changed marksmen go. We have some smaller changes for other marksmen that we've yet to announce, and I'm behind a few more of those.
new
I always preferred to play kog'maw as a spell based poke marksman. Will that playstyle still be viable or are you focusing on making him auto attack based? Do you have any plans to look at his passive? Getting executes with it is always satisfying but often than not its a bit useless, especially as you should really be rewarded for good positioning/play. Having a passive that rewards you for dying always seemed odd to me, even more so on marksman
> I always preferred to play kog'maw as a spell based poke marksman. Will that playstyle still be viable or are you focusing on making him auto attack based? He scales quite well with Attack Damage on his W and R, so you should still be able to play him this way. > Do you have any plans to look at his passive? We're not currently planning any changes to his passive.
As someone who loves the ap scaling late game monster that is AP Kog, could you give out specifics to ult scaling and base damages?
Current state, the damage is: * 70/110/150 (+0.75 bonus AD) (+0.25 AP) on targets above 50% Health * 140/220/300 (+1.5 bonus AD) (+0.5 AP) on targets between 25% and 50% Health * 210/330/450 (+2.25 bonus AD) (+0.75 AP) on targets below 25% Health
Will he be keeping his % max health shred?
Yes. It's modified a bit, but it's still there.
How will these changes hit Kog'maw as an AP mid lane mage? Will it be a thing still, and if it will be a thing, will it be better or worse than the current version?
It should still be strong. Probably less poke damage on average, but more threatening in the execution case.
Does his W still have the % health damage shred attached to it? Edit: Oh, someone beat me to it. Different question then! Will he keep the same animations for all of his abilities, or will there be new particle effects?
W will have some new particles and animations, but he will mostly look the same.
when does this go live? is it up on PBE yet? I really feel inclined to help out with this PBE cycle as I feel after the juggernaut issues I want to at least have some feedback on changes before they hit live. I am eager to test.
It will go up on the next PBE build, which may not be until tomorrow.
It really sounds like Kog'Maw's identity as a late-game on-hit artillery ADC will be really solidified with these changes. Unfortunately, as someone who really likes to play AP Kog'Maw from time to time, it sounds like W will become even more useless for an AP build. Was this intentional to steer more people toward his traditional role of a marksman, or are there other changes that will help his poke mage playstyle?
I think W will be just as powerful for the AP build, if not more. Nashor's Tooth, for instance, may actually be really powerful for AP Kog'Maw now.
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